Its the Norfolk show today and tomorrow. All state schools in Norfolk are closed as teachers are supposed to be on two training days. Wonder how many will turn up?
I support the right to strike. I would probably go on strike in solidarity with my colleagues today if I worked in one of these areas.
I listen though to Union leaders/reps giving out the language of class war and I really wonder if there are two parallel universes, the one for public sector workers organised into unions, used to the deep pockets of the state, and one for almost everybody else who have seen their living standards reduced significantly over the past few years.
I hear barrack room lawyers arguing that cutting spending will hurt the private sector because less spending on state infrastructure means less jobs in the construction industry and I wonder where they think the "state" money comes from.
There just isn't an easy way out of this mess and some significant austerity is going to have to happen because the country has maxed out its credit card.
Pain is required as we all hitherto, to a greater or lesser extend, had it all a bit too good during the boom years of the 80s 90s and 00s
How many of the teachers etc are sitting at home rather than picketing?
Unions are reluctant to have more than six people picketing. Legislation doesn't expressly prevent it, but 'guidelines' say six should be the maximum number of people on a picket. Despite numerous attempts to get this piece of Applebyesque bullshit removed from any official status, it still remains in place. One of the many, many pieces of anti-TU legislation passed over the past 25 years, BTW
Interesting that Francis Maude fell apart under very skilful and subtle questioning on BBC Today programme. He's been telling porkies about the findings of the Hutton report, and got picked up on by the man at the Beeb until Maude was left spluttering. Best bit of questioning I've heard for many a year.
Shame I've not had internet for a while - I would've enjoyed reading and contributing to this discussion.
It's probably been said before, but the only power a worker has is to withdraw his/her labour and I would never want to take that away from them. I feel that sometimes people not in unions misunderstand what goes on - they can't call a strike if they don't have the support of their members. I do have sympathy for the public sector workers, but where do they think the money to pay for their retirement and pension is going to come from?
Shame I've not had internet for a while - I would've enjoyed reading and contributing to this discussion.
It's probably been said before, but the only power a worker has is to withdraw his/her labour and I would never want to take that away from them. I feel that sometimes people not in unions misunderstand what goes on - they can't call a strike if they don't have the support of their members. I do have sympathy for the public sector workers, but where do they think the money to pay for their retirement and pension is going to come from?
That was the thrust of the Beeb point this morning. As a proportion of GDP, the money being paid into public sector pensions has already peaked and is actually falling. It doesn't sound as unsustainable as I had hitherto been led to believe by the ConDems, neither had Hutton made any claims that it was unsustainable.
Shame I've not had internet for a while - I would've enjoyed reading and contributing to this discussion.
It's probably been said before, but the only power a worker has is to withdraw his/her labour and I would never want to take that away from them. I feel that sometimes people not in unions misunderstand what goes on - they can't call a strike if they don't have the support of their members. I do have sympathy for the public sector workers, but where do they think the money to pay for their retirement and pension is going to come from?
Welcome back Phil......
The goverment have put the emphasis on the teachers, but the majority of the public service union the CPS are from a whole range of public services that the public will not care if they go on strike!...... hence the spotlight on the teachers. The goverment are claiming that this is precursive, and jumping the gun. But what are people faced with 7 years plus added to there service and added contributions suppossed to do.
Yes this dawn has been coming for years!...... the issue is the speed of the introduction, combined with the double whammy of the years added to work, especially for woman. In essence pay more for less, at a later stage.
Few if any people would argue that the retirement age has to be raised but in a fair, and decent time frame.
Jowell and Milliband have hardly helped the cause, except to state to get back to the negotiating table. In essence it seems to be agreeing with the goverments policy, just the presentation.
Where does the money come from...... the sale of the goverments share of the banks holdings in the next five years, a freeze on all MP's salaries for 5 years, No pay increases for public employees over £75,000, for five years. Judges,Generals, and such like pay freeze for 5 years. And a maximuim public service pension of £25,000 a year, then means tested. No state pension for people earning over £25,000 a year from a private pension.
"It's funny how people have different perspectives - I see this the other way around - I see the unions who of course not only fund but also vote for the Labour party leadership, just trying to score political points against the government using their members as tools."
Just to set the record straight - none of the unions on strike today pay a political levy to the Labour Party.
No state pension for people earning over £25,000 a year from a private pension.
Why?
So if I've invested a small monthly amount into a private pension scheme for 45 years which delivers me an annuity of £25k per annum, you're suggesting that the 45 years worth of National Insurance payments I've made to fund my state pension are just thrown in the pot for someone who has pissed all their income up the wall to enjoy instead?
That is £50,000 a couple.......seeing that after 45 years you will probably not have a mortgage!....... that is virtually £1,000 a week .
Ever tried living on unemployment benefit of £60 quid a week!.
Anyway the benefits agency will take away all but £6000 away if you have to go to a home when you are old and infirmed anyway, and your life savings, house and possessions will go towards the
'pissheads' as you call them. I thought this was all about making tough choices....... and that we were all in this together......
Just pointing out that it is easy to make retrospective decisions until it affect us personally.
The state pension qualification contribution has been cut down to 30 years, perhaps this has been a contributory reason.
Do you not see there being a means test for state pensions if you have an income from Pensions of over £25,000 per person!
I only got £50 a week for 13 weeks when I was unemployed two years ago!
I think I'll just stuff my money into a cash ISA each year, so there is no pension for any politician to nick in the future.
And yes, retrospective legislation stinks - I've already got to wait an extra year for my state pension and that's not what I signed up for when I was 18.
I surprised that MPs (who have one of the most amazingly generous pension schemes you can get paid for by us) don't savage their own as an example. I am also surprised more members of the public don't focus attention on this and pull them up on it - great tear up the rights of low paid workers but ensure your own schemes mirror those you are proposing for public servants. Hypocrites the lot of them.
I only got £50 a week for 13 weeks when I was unemployed two years ago!
I think I'll just stuff my money into a cash ISA each year, so there is no pension for any politician to nick in the future.
And yes, retrospective legislation stinks - I've already got to wait an extra year for my state pension and that's not what I signed up for when I was 18.
Do not worry about the politicians nicking it, most cash ISA have a poor return after the first year?..... please check your rates of return, some are only paying a very low rate of interest and with inflation at 4 and a half per cent.
Jobseekers benefit limited to 6 months, unless of course you have a pension 'private' like mine then they take away a percentage...of even that.
Glad we agree about retrospective legislation. I find the idea of an individual who has to sell his /her home to get into a nursing home appauling, but the politicians off all parties seem quite happy to let this rip!
In the words of Pete Townsend 'I hope to die before I get old'
Interesting that Francis Maude fell apart under very skilful and subtle questioning on BBC Today programme. He's been telling porkies about the findings of the Hutton report, and got picked up on by the man at the Beeb until Maude was left spluttering. Best bit of questioning I've heard for many a year.
Apparently he bottled out of being interviewed on Channel4 News tonight at very short notice too.
If I see them (MPs) ditching their pensions for identical schemes the public servants are going to have imposed on them I'd change my position -how can you argue with somebody leading by example. Just feels to me that the people with privilige and power (both public and private sectors) feather their own nests and attack low paid workers. They are good at it too unfortunately and get the low paid workers to attack each other rather than support each other to create a fairer society.
Comments
It's probably been said before, but the only power a worker has is to withdraw his/her labour and I would never want to take that away from them. I feel that sometimes people not in unions misunderstand what goes on - they can't call a strike if they don't have the support of their members. I do have sympathy for the public sector workers, but where do they think the money to pay for their retirement and pension is going to come from?
That was the thrust of the Beeb point this morning. As a proportion of GDP, the money being paid into public sector pensions has already peaked and is actually falling. It doesn't sound as unsustainable as I had hitherto been led to believe by the ConDems, neither had Hutton made any claims that it was unsustainable.
Why?
So if I've invested a small monthly amount into a private pension scheme for 45 years which delivers me an annuity of £25k per annum, you're suggesting that the 45 years worth of National Insurance payments I've made to fund my state pension are just thrown in the pot for someone who has pissed all their income up the wall to enjoy instead?
Do you want to go away and think about that
I only got £50 a week for 13 weeks when I was unemployed two years ago!
I think I'll just stuff my money into a cash ISA each year, so there is no pension for any politician to nick in the future.
And yes, retrospective legislation stinks - I've already got to wait an extra year for my state pension and that's not what I signed up for when I was 18.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jun/17/francis-maude-rhodium-plated-pensions?INTCMP=SRCH