Man City and similar clubs pay over the odds for players, it's a no brainer that Charlton want value and potential profit from dealings. How this proves some of the more ridiculous elements of the theory , I don't know.
It is an indepth analysis and it is well written but that doesn't make it more or less accurate.
As I said it's not clear if the statements about Powell and other managers are based on info from the owners or is part of the speculation that NYA openly says makes up much of his article.
It certainly contradicts what Slater has said before ir "when we have as many England caps as you (Chris) we'll pick the players". Not that that makes it untrue but there is a lot of what NYA admits is speculation being taken as fact.
The Unified Theory of All Things Charlton is out there somewhere but NYA's analysis, whilst both lucid and interesting, is also annoying because it leaves me precisely nowhere. There is nothing new. I am always mindful that we have skilled manipulators at the helm and that fan management is very much a planned event. After the debacle of Parky's messy and o'er hasty dimissal, we went for Eddie Howe and he turned us down. I can see a scenario that Howe wasn't happy about some managerial caveats, needed think time, and, maybe after discusssion with friends, decided against accepting. That would fit NYA's theory. But it all seems rather tortuous and Machiavellian, and to date, rather ineffective.
However my view differs. Based on the little information we have and a lot of guess work the way I see it is:
Charlton were available for £1 plus the debt of around £15m of which £7m is deferred payments to the ex-director bond holders that only becomes due when we reach the Premier league and even then payments are staggered.
Charlton have already cut their costs and overheads to the bone (and beyond) over recent years so have relatively low running costs while a number of similar Clubs are still struggling to do the same.
Charlton have proved that they have the potential to be a Premier League Club, own a modern stadium in a relatively attractive location (it's in London) and a potentially large supporter base given success.
Slater and Jiminez had a group of unknown backers (the Mysterons is a great name) who they had interested in the idea of buying a club, building it up and them selling it as a going concern when it was in a higher division.
MS and TJ were looking at another club but Peter Varney (who I can not see being a willing part of a plan to asset strip or otherwide hurt the club) got them interested in CAFC and got a deal done.
The business strategy is to keep the non first team playing costs at their current level. Note that the Academy is still taking and looking for sponsorship and that other than the partially sponsored big screen no other new spending or recruitment has been seen at the Valley.
The Club is losing something around £3m to £4m per year. The Business plan is to cover this cost for 4 or 5 years during which we will be promoted to the Championship and pershaps be knocking on the door of the Premier League. For the Mysterons a £1m each per year investment over five years is not huge and the potential returns if they can sell Charlton in the Premier League for, say £40m (effectively what Blackburn cost) then that is a 100% return.
This is based on the theory that while Charlton run a tight ship that has already stripped out costs other clubs are in debt (Coventry have been described as a "basket case" by one of their directors). player wages at our level and above are dropping so we are in a strong position to come through the hard times ahead for football and take advantage. If and when we are promoted to the Championship spending on players will increase. Some one described it to me as "a long road back but we will get there".
The sell the Valley and Sparrows Lane theory doesn't stand up for me. If they wanted to get into housing development there is plenty of land available and the bottom has fallen out of the market anyway. That is assuming they could get planning permission for either site.
But lets assume they can get planning permission. If they can the Valley is 10 acres only 7 of which could you build on due to the East Terrace bank. The Valley has a charge on it already from Lombard Bank I believe and it is worth more as a football stadium than as housing especially as housing is no longer as profitable.
Sparrows Lane and the other sports grounds in the area have not been completely built over during the boom housing years which indicates that planning permission was and will not be forthcoming.
For me the housing idea doesn't add up but as I said we don't have all the facts or figures. But if that was their plan why mess about. Why not wait until the club was in Administration, dodge the other debts, buy cheap and move the club out straight away?
What is wrong with my theory is that Slater was talking of "significant investment" and has employed Jeff Vetere as Technical Director, neither of which marry with my version of things unless "significant" means £3m per year playing budget (and I never thought it was going to be £10s of millions) and Vetere is seen as earning his fees through finding good cheap, mainly overseas, players who can get the team up and attract transfer fees in the future.
As I say all my speculation based on a few facts and lots of guesses and reading between the lines.
When the new board came in I welcomed the news and am grateful for the financial stability but the six questions I asked then remain
1. What is the business plan? 2. Who owns the Club? 3. What is the level of financial investment 4. What are the plans for the Valley 5. What are the plans for the Academy? 6. What is the Exit Strategy
Blimey, everyone on here having a pop at the blogger, get a life. With all the crap that is written on this board is his post really any worse!!
To me his post says nothing that I did not know and have not already figured out for myself without a "friend at the club". It is obvious there is a more wealthy backer and as we don't know who he is, it's obvious there is a complex structure or trust sitting at the very top of the club. Jimenez is the football man of the pair that have come in so no surprise he is the main man as far as any funder is involved.
As for making money through player purchases / sales, pretty sure Slater had said something like that already and with the scouting set up being increased so much and the investment in the academy it all pointed that way anyway.
Am I worried it all fails and we go down the pan, of course I am but we would already have gone that way without this investment so at least this takeover gave us a chance.
Lets just concentrate on all the bullshit player rumours, they are far more fun and interesting than getting worked up about this!
Plus, when MS says that CP will pick players we have no reason to think that will not be case.
Whether he gets to decide who is in the squad (i.e transfer targets), may well be a different matter. To be honest, with the likes of Vetere on board, this may be an entirely sensible approach - and if TJ had not only identified a talent the like of Luca Modric and arranged a deal before any of the other prem clubs, then this is also something to be optimistic about IMHO.
As ever, the proof is in the pudding, and we're not even past the hors d'oeuvres yet!
Can't see why so many are up in arms about the blog. It was well written and insightful in as much as NYA says he has come up with real evidence to support his hypothesis and I take his comments on that in good faith. What exactly would be wrong with his model of how to make CAFC a successful club once again ? The last regime were without question fans and totally committed to the cause and yet the mince grinder that is football these days ultimately beat them. A new fresh albeit hard edged attitude to the running of the club based on shrewd and smart acquisitions might just be a way to get us moving forward again. I take great comfort that Varney and Murray are still involved and also think what I have seen in the appointments of Vetere and Hart are exeptional pieces of business. The Chris Powell aspects to the plot are in my view plausible and if I'm honest I could never quite understand him getting the job in the first place so at least it has offered me at least a possible solution to that conundrum. I certainly don't think the next few seasons are going to be boring or uneventful so as far as I am concerned bring it on.
Having re-read it, the article still looks like a re-hash with no specifics about any inside information. If there is one interesting thing in it it's the assertion that there are no mystery owners. A very rich and anonymous 'funder', yes, but Jimenez could've got the money from First Direct and it would fit the description of very rich funder. Even that isn't evidenced in any new way however - just fits with what's already known.
Can't see why so many are up in arms about the blog. It was well written and insightful in as much as NYA says he has come up with real evidence to support his hypothesis and I take his comments on that in good faith. What exactly would be wrong with his model of how to make CAFC a successful club once again ? The last regime were without question fans and totally committed to the cause and yet the mince grinder that is football these days ultimately beat them. A new fresh albeit hard edged attitude to the running of the club based on shrewd and smart acquisitions might just be a way to get us moving forward again. I take great comfort that Varney and Murray are still involved and also think what I have seen in the appointments of Vetere and Hart are exeptional pieces of business. The Chris Powell aspects to the plot are in my view plausible and if I'm honest I could never quite understand him getting the job in the first place so at least it has offered me at least a possible solution to that conundrum. I certainly don't think the next few seasons are going to be boring or uneventful so as far as I am concerned bring it on.
Agree with this ... it's a good blog article and exactly the sort of thing I would have expected to see in days past in the likes of VOTV and Goodbye Horse.
I think a lot of us (myself included) need to realise that Charlton and us have fans have been spoilt for many (recent) years in terms of transparency from the Board, access to leadership in informal surroundings and relative stability.
The whole club has gone through immense changes, as has the wider footballing world, and we're finally becoming part of it. Whether or not it fits in with the ideals of how you want or expect Charlton to be run is a whole new discussion but digging out NYA and others for expressing an opinion on the current structure is a little harsh in my opinion - especially as it is, as many have said, an amalgamation of facts and speculation in a very well written piece.
The piece about CP does not sit comfortably with me but it does make sense. He hasnt covered himself with glory since becoming manager and he will be under pressure and of course he was not first choice when the new regime came in, that much is obvious.
I think the realisation that the club is evolving makes everyone nervous, especially as we don't know how it will pan out but pieces like NYA's blogs I believe are good to have. Despite the lack of concrete facts there is nothing personal in the piece and he's not dug anyone out. Then again we could all just sit around believing everything is like the "good old days" because a legend is in charge and the threat of admin is lifted...
I can't see where NYA is getting personal abuse. People have criticised the piece, the way the evidence is presented and the conclusions but not him personally.
Doubting the speculation that NYA makes, and by his own admission much of it is just that, does not mean believing blindly in the new owners or the legend that is managing the team. Some of it I agree with, other parts i don't.
I'm not convinced by the "Powell is a coach/Yes man" theory. Maybe that seems more likely and credible now that he's had a poor half season but would it have done when he was appointed in January?
He didn't apply for the job, he was in work in a good job with a higher division job. He didn't "need" the Charlton job so why accept it under such unfavourable terms. And it was explicitly stated (the England Caps quotes) that Powell called the shots on picking players.
Maybe that has changed now, maybe the board have imposed this new role on him or maybe they are "liars". I suspect that Powell is still calling the shots and selecting the players to buy and to play. Hayes, Hollands and Pritchard hardly suggest otherwise as NYA says in the article. In future weeks/years/months Vetere may well put names of players in front of Powell but it will still be CP making the final choice IMHO.
fair enough -but read Vetere's interview on the OS when he joined. He claims to have 'instigated' darren bent's transfer to Aston Villa. Would he really leave somewhere where he made decisions on 20mm pound players to be a scout at a League One club?
Its not the first time I've heard that Powell is "not calling the shots" that's for sure.
That being said, I want him, the players and the Board to do well for obvious reasons. There is also no harm in speculating in my opinion, it raises questions and encourages debate. We still havent got answers to the five or six questions posed when the takeover took place (not that we are in any position to demand answers) so I think pieces like NYAs where he has taken the time to speak and listen to others and write a logical and thought out piece deserves credit.
By saying things like this shouldn't be written because it's not the Charlton way or that it might hurt player's or manager's feelings is a bit naive I think. By our very nature we are inquisitive, and when so many things are in doubt around a subject that the majority of us have a huge emotional (and financial) investment in things like this happen.
This is a new era for Charlton, hopefully an exciting one, but to suggest the new owners are going to act in a way we've become accustomed to is simply not going to happen. Of course with RM and PV still involved there is hope but I really would not be surprised if any of the "speculation" that NYA alludes to becomes true. That's not saying I want it to happen of course.
It's rumoured amongst the players that Powell won't be picking the team next year and Jimenez will.
I think that JIminez and Vetere might well be using their skills to sign players for Powell but I just can't believe it won't be Powell picking the team. I believe CP is far to proud and as Henry says not desperate for a job to allow that to be the case.
fair enough -but read Vetere's interview on the OS when he joined. He claims to have 'instigated' darren bent's transfer to Aston Villa. Would he really leave somewhere where he made decisions on 20mm pound players to be a scout at a League One club?
I saw that and it seemed odd to me. Had Houlier never heard of Bent? Did Houlier need JV to tell him that Bent was a goal scorer or did Houlier say "I need a goal scorer, Jeff. Go out and find out whose available and for how much" and when Jeff came back and said "you can get Darren Bent for £18m, Toress for £50m and Pavel Abbott for £5" Houlier said "I'll have Bent then" and got on the phone to Randy Learner.
The other question is why did Vetere leave a premier league club where he "instigated" transfer for a League 1 club at all.
fair enough -but read Vetere's interview on the OS when he joined. He claims to have 'instigated' darren bent's transfer to Aston Villa. Would he really leave somewhere where he made decisions on 20mm pound players to be a scout at a League One club?
I saw that and it seemed odd to me. Had Houlier never heard of Bent? Did Houlier need JV to tell him that Bent was a goal scorer or did Houlier say "I need a goal scorer, Jeff. Go out and find out whose available and for how much" and when Jeff came back and said "you can get Darren Bent for £18m, Toress for £50m and Pavel Abbott for £5" Houlier said "I'll have Bent then" and got on the phone to Randy Learner.
The other question is why did Vetere leave a premier league club where he "instigated" transfer for a League 1 club at all.
Perhaps he has a better financial deal here with his "buddies" , related to profits made on "his" players.
Also, with Houllier being unwell and likely to be replaced, perhaps he thought his position would be more secure at CAFC.
Could be wrong but thought I read somewhere that Vetere had fallen out with theVilla heirachy as the job wasn't that which had been sold to him in that he expected to be Director of Football but turns out he was no more than a scout.
Perhaps so - but Vetere had Real Madrid, Villa and West Ham on his cv(and had previously turned down Liverpool). Somehow I don't think he would have needed to jump straight into a scouting role for a mid table league one team. I do believe that Powell picks the team and perhaps some of the players. I don't think he signs them all. However with Vetere and Hart both having proven pedigree in bringing through players, I don't think that's a bad thing with a rookie manager. Also I feel Powell actually brings a lot to the table namely man management, Good defensive nouce(forget last year's defence) and the likability factor. I have got a funny feeling that it might work......
I think there is a difference between disagreeing and abusing. I must admit, I don't always see eye to eye with Henry but his take seems much more likely to be the case. That doesn't mean I am slagging off NYA.
To suggest that Chris Powell won't be picking the team in the future is either absolutely ridiculous or absolutely shocking.
If we have come to a position where we have a manager who doesn't manage then we really are in the domain of the mad.
The 'funder' pulls the strings with Tony and Michael out front, and Vetere/Jiminez/Herbert Chapman pick the team with Chris Powell out front???!!! If this situation is true then we might as well all pack it in and go home.
I for one believe Chris Powell is the manager, in the usual sense, and I want him to succeed. I believe that he is trying to get things going, and that we will not be content to 'tick over' next season. Chris may not be successful, who knows, but he is a man of utter integrity and if he is being deliberately f*cked over by some manipulative person/people connected with Charlton the shame of it will linger forever.
I hope the notion that Chris isn't our leader is all wrong!
Chris Powell is a man of the utmost personal integrity. He will also have made enough money from football to be financially secure.
If he really was a puppet, as opposed to an apprentice manager with advisers at his disposal which would be perfectly reasonable, understandable and acceptable, then I think he would walk.
The debate around the remit of CP's managerial role seems to be polarising a little here. Is it him or Jimenez/Vetere who has the ultimate say in who is to be part of the playing squad ? Wouldn't it make more sense that it is consensus based ? Maybe the new regime are trying to move with the times and adopt the less recognised (in the English game perhaps, especially where we are now, but maybe less so in the Premiership) continental approach to player recruitment and the role and responsibility of the team manager. As much as Slater stated at The Valley the comment about "when I have as many caps etc. etc." to which I took to mean picking the team, not recruiting of players, he also was quite clear that CP's core remit was to improve their performance, get more out of the talent that was there etc etc. On his appointment it was evident that he lacked exposure to the recuitment side, so that must have been seen as non essential by the hiring committee. Chris would have discussed how that side of the business would work and must have been aware that the posts now occupied by Vetere/Hart were work in progress. Good business ethos can work in sport, and having a consensus approach with Jimenez having the final sanction, once all the aspects have been addressed in recruiting/hiring/firing players. Player worth to the team may have to correlate with value to the business, as an investment/asset with a sell by date/sell on / potential value/ current valuation etc. all taken into account. Perhaps some but not all of these assesments lie with CP ? This approach would make a lot of sense (to me at least) in fact it MAY be the best approach and something that suits all areas of our "new" business model, given our current P&L
Comments
Yep I can't believe what I am reading
As I said it's not clear if the statements about Powell and other managers are based on info from the owners or is part of the speculation that NYA openly says makes up much of his article.
It certainly contradicts what Slater has said before ir "when we have as many England caps as you (Chris) we'll pick the players". Not that that makes it untrue but there is a lot of what NYA admits is speculation being taken as fact.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
However my view differs. Based on the little information we have and a lot of guess work the way I see it is:
Charlton
were available for £1 plus the debt of around £15m of which £7m is
deferred payments to the ex-director bond holders that only becomes due
when we reach the Premier league and even then payments are staggered.
Charlton
have already cut their costs and overheads to the bone (and beyond)
over recent years so have relatively low running costs while a number of
similar Clubs are still struggling to do the same.
Charlton have
proved that they have the potential to be a Premier League Club, own a
modern stadium in a relatively attractive location (it's in London) and a
potentially large supporter base given success.
Slater and
Jiminez had a group of unknown backers (the Mysterons is a great name)
who they had interested in the idea of buying a club, building it up and
them selling it as a going concern when it was in a higher division.
MS
and TJ were looking at another club but Peter Varney (who I can not
see being a willing part of a plan to asset strip or otherwide hurt the
club) got them interested in CAFC and got a deal done.
The
business strategy is to keep the non first team playing costs at their
current level. Note that the Academy is still taking and looking for
sponsorship and that other than the partially sponsored big screen no
other new spending or recruitment has been seen at the Valley.
The
Club is losing something around £3m to £4m per year. The Business plan
is to cover this cost for 4 or 5 years during which we will be promoted
to the Championship and pershaps be knocking on the door of the Premier
League. For the Mysterons a £1m each per year investment over five
years is not huge and the potential returns if they can sell Charlton in
the Premier League for, say £40m (effectively what Blackburn cost) then
that is a 100% return.
This is based on the theory that while
Charlton run a tight ship that has already stripped out costs other
clubs are in debt (Coventry have been described as a "basket case" by
one of their directors). player wages at our level and above are
dropping so we are in a strong position to come through the hard times
ahead for football and take advantage. If and when we are promoted to
the Championship spending on players will increase. Some one described
it to me as "a long road back but we will get there".
The sell
the Valley and Sparrows Lane theory doesn't stand up for me. If they
wanted to get into housing development there is plenty of land available
and the bottom has fallen out of the market anyway. That is assuming
they could get planning permission for either site.
But lets
assume they can get planning permission. If they can the Valley is 10
acres only 7 of which could you build on due to the East Terrace bank.
The Valley has a charge on it already from Lombard Bank I believe and it
is worth more as a football stadium than as housing especially as
housing is no longer as profitable.
Sparrows Lane and the other
sports grounds in the area have not been completely built over during
the boom housing years which indicates that planning permission was and
will not be forthcoming.
For me the housing idea doesn't add up
but as I said we don't have all the facts or figures. But if that was
their plan why mess about. Why not wait until the club was in
Administration, dodge the other debts, buy cheap and move the club out
straight away?
What is wrong with my theory is that Slater was
talking of "significant investment" and has employed Jeff Vetere as
Technical Director, neither of which marry with my version of things
unless "significant" means £3m per year playing budget (and I never
thought it was going to be £10s of millions) and Vetere is seen as
earning his fees through finding good cheap, mainly overseas, players who
can get the team up and attract transfer fees in the future.
As I say all my speculation based on a few facts and lots of guesses and reading between the lines.
When
the new board came in I welcomed the news and am grateful for the
financial stability but the six questions I asked then remain
1. What is the business plan?
2. Who owns the Club?
3. What is the level of financial investment
4. What are the plans for the Valley
5. What are the plans for the Academy?
6. What is the Exit Strategy
Blimey, everyone on here having a pop at the blogger, get a life. With all the crap that is written on this board is his post really any worse!!
To me his post says nothing that I did not know and have not already figured out for myself without a "friend at the club". It is obvious there is a more wealthy backer and as we don't know who he is, it's obvious there is a complex structure or trust sitting at the very top of the club. Jimenez is the football man of the pair that have come in so no surprise he is the main man as far as any funder is involved.
As for making money through player purchases / sales, pretty sure Slater had said something like that already and with the scouting set up being increased so much and the investment in the academy it all pointed that way anyway.
Am I worried it all fails and we go down the pan, of course I am but we would already have gone that way without this investment so at least this takeover gave us a chance.
Lets just concentrate on all the bullshit player rumours, they are far more fun and interesting than getting worked up about this!
What Athletico says...
Plus, when MS says that CP will pick players we have no reason to think that will not be case.
Whether he gets to decide who is in the squad (i.e transfer targets), may well be a different matter. To be honest, with the likes of Vetere on board, this may be an entirely sensible approach - and if TJ had not only identified a talent the like of Luca Modric and arranged a deal before any of the other prem clubs, then this is also something to be optimistic about IMHO.
As ever, the proof is in the pudding, and we're not even past the hors d'oeuvres yet!
Agree with this ... it's a good blog article and exactly the sort of thing I would have expected to see in days past in the likes of VOTV and Goodbye Horse.
Doubting the speculation that NYA makes, and by his own admission much of it is just that, does not mean believing blindly in the new owners or the legend that is managing the team. Some of it I agree with, other parts i don't.
I'm not convinced by the "Powell is a coach/Yes man" theory. Maybe that seems more likely and credible now that he's had a poor half season but would it have done when he was appointed in January?
He didn't apply for the job, he was in work in a good job with a higher division job. He didn't "need" the Charlton job so why accept it under such unfavourable terms. And it was explicitly stated (the England Caps quotes) that Powell called the shots on picking players.
Maybe that has changed now, maybe the board have imposed this new role on him or maybe they are "liars". I suspect that Powell is still calling the shots and selecting the players to buy and to play. Hayes, Hollands and Pritchard hardly suggest otherwise as NYA says in the article. In future weeks/years/months Vetere may well put names of players in front of Powell but it will still be CP making the final choice IMHO.
That being said, I want him, the players and the Board to do well for obvious reasons. There is also no harm in speculating in my opinion, it raises questions and encourages debate. We still havent got answers to the five or six questions posed when the takeover took place (not that we are in any position to demand answers) so I think pieces like NYAs where he has taken the time to speak and listen to others and write a logical and thought out piece deserves credit.
By saying things like this shouldn't be written because it's not the Charlton way or that it might hurt player's or manager's feelings is a bit naive I think. By our very nature we are inquisitive, and when so many things are in doubt around a subject that the majority of us have a huge emotional (and financial) investment in things like this happen.
This is a new era for Charlton, hopefully an exciting one, but to suggest the new owners are going to act in a way we've become accustomed to is simply not going to happen. Of course with RM and PV still involved there is hope but I really would not be surprised if any of the "speculation" that NYA alludes to becomes true. That's not saying I want it to happen of course.
I think that JIminez and Vetere might well be using their skills to sign players for Powell but I just can't believe it won't be Powell picking the team. I believe CP is far to proud and as Henry says not desperate for a job to allow that to be the case.
The other question is why did Vetere leave a premier league club where he "instigated" transfer for a League 1 club at all.
Perhaps he has a better financial deal here with his "buddies" , related to profits made on "his" players.
Also, with Houllier being unwell and likely to be replaced, perhaps he thought his position would be more secure at CAFC.
All the contacts JV and TJ bring are useful but only Powell has been a pro player.
For better or worse he is the boss.
To suggest that Chris Powell won't be picking the team in the future is either absolutely ridiculous or absolutely shocking.
If we have come to a position where we have a manager who doesn't manage then we really are in the domain of the mad.
The 'funder' pulls the strings with Tony and Michael out front, and Vetere/Jiminez/Herbert Chapman pick the team with Chris Powell out front???!!! If this situation is true then we might as well all pack it in and go home.
I for one believe Chris Powell is the manager, in the usual sense, and I want him to succeed. I believe that he is trying to get things going, and that we will not be content to 'tick over' next season. Chris may not be successful, who knows, but he is a man of utter integrity and if he is being deliberately f*cked over by some manipulative person/people connected with Charlton the shame of it will linger forever.
I hope the notion that Chris isn't our leader is all wrong!
Chris Powell is a man of the utmost personal integrity. He will also have made enough money from football to be financially secure.
If he really was a puppet, as opposed to an apprentice manager with advisers at his disposal which would be perfectly reasonable, understandable and acceptable, then I think he would walk.