[cite]Posted By: DRF[/cite]"It has gone badly since -- can't imagine how a club the size of Charlton can lose IN THE LEAGUE to the Dagenhams and Rochdales of the world!"
More news just in. We are not a big club, we are not better than everyone else around us just because we are 'bigger'. The quicker we get over ourselves the sooner other clubs will stop seeing us as a 'giant kiling' and the easier we will find this league.
We'll have to wait a long time before people stop thinking of us as a big team - I always thought of Leeds as a big team, no matter how long they spent in League 1.
[cite]Posted By: bigstemarra[/cite]So, you think that it is wrong to criticise Parky for not using Jonjo? Why is that not allowed? If you think that this is the case, then you are obviously too stupid to understand the concept of an internet message board where people exchange opinions about valid concerns. What has criticising his management got to do with the fact that he was a decent man? Nothing. There have been, and still are, many legitimate concerns about how CP has managed the team so far. Who has a problem with them being discussed? No-one. If you think, that in answer to those who keep bringing up Parky as a stick to beat CP with, it is not OK to criticise his tenure in response, then you are the wind up merchant. So, because CP is a decent man too, then shouldn't he also be beyond criticism? Absolutely not.
I have got over the fact that Parky has gone, but many on here - such as yourself, obviously haven't. That's why YOU keep going on about him and rewriting history to the point where he is your eyes some sort of Brian Clough-like football genius. Whether CP cuts it or not (and this very much remains to be seen, let's face it, the omens don't look good so far, but time will tell), you do not have the ability to peek into alternate universes and definitively say that we would have gone up if we had remained with Parkinson. At the end of the day, we didn't get promoted last season, the board made a judgement that they had little faith of it occuring this season, they replaced him, and that's all there is to it. Stop being so precious.
Absolutely spot on. Some seem to be absolutely revelling in Powell's struggles because they think it makes their lukewarm backing at the time of Parky makes them some sort of all- seeing sage. I wish they would put just 10% of the same effort into backing our manager
Who is rewriting history and talking up Parky as some sort of Brian Clough?
As I've said before Parky took us to within 2 points of automatic promotion. One goal away at Leeds would have done it when we drew 0-0. Can blame him for the wrong decisions he supposedly made but he got us that close his way. Without a goalscoring striker, without the option of an out and out left winger for half a season (neither which are his fault). Does that not make him a good League 1 manager? Yet he's still being criticized for things like poor signings compared to Powell, yet Powell's signings are players we wouldn't have been able to afford at the time.
I agree he wouldn't have definitely taken us up this season, of course no one can say he would have. I'm not enjoying our struggles, it's just frustrating seeing Parky being criticized for things that were not his fault such as signing players of Abbott's quality rather than BWP's.
[cite]Posted By: Scoham[/cite]Who is rewriting history and talking up Parky as some sort of Brian Clough?
As I've said before Parky took us to within 2 points of automatic promotion. One goal away at Leeds would have done it when we drew 0-0. Can blame him for the wrong decisions he supposedly made but he got us that close his way. Without a goalscoring striker, without the option of an out and out left winger for half a season (neither which are his fault). Does that not make him a good League 1 manager? Yet he's still being criticized for things like poor signings compared to Powell, yet Powell's signings are players we wouldn't have been able to afford at the time.
I agree he wouldn't have definitely taken us up this season, of course no one can say he would have. I'm not enjoying our struggles, it's just frustrating seeing Parky being criticized for things that were not his fault such as signing players of Abbott's quality rather than BWP's.
Yeah I agree with this, we fell short with a good squad. It's always easy to speak withnhindsightnbut every crap season we have I think to myself why didn't murray stump up that little bit extra to get us up (a
Andy Reid, striker last year, etc)
[cite]Posted By: queensland_addick[/cite]Pete,On the matter of Jonjo I base my opinion on what was stated on here by his Uncle, that Jonjo was told in a meeting with Parky that Parky thought he was too good to fit into the team.
This was denied by Parky at Bromley Addicks. And no I am not suggesting that Uncle is a liar, nor am I suggesting Parkie is, but I am suggesting some form of miscommunication that may have contained a level of ambiguity in its nature. How many of us have been in meetings where you come out and people have different interpretations of what has been said. I to my cost have been hoisted by the petard of my flippant remarks being taken as gospel.
[cite]Posted By: incorruptible addick[/cite]Anyway, from unpromising beginnings and a misguided attempt to curtail the thread, this has turned into quite an interesting and rational discussion.
Henry believes that Parky is a top bloke and doesn't appreciate any criticism of him.
From what I've heard, Parky is a swell fellow. But was also a mediocre at best manager.
Not being accepted at the start, because of the circumstances of his hire, made his job even more difficult.
Powell was welcomed with open arms, but had to take over Parky's players.
Two different jobs, with the same club.
We know how one turned out.
We'll have to wait to see if the other works out any better.
Unfortunately Powell is no good, and it will take a disasterous start next yea,r having spent a few quid, for the board to act... they have a much bigger job on their hands than they realise and we are are in for a few more false dawns and a few more very dark seasons before it breaks for us, this is why it was a disaster sacking Parky , we were in fifth this very poor squad was doing everything they could for him and we never went on a run like this in league one... the man deserved the money having shepherded us through a very difficult time, instead we will see the money spent and the system Powell wants to play not work and a legend slain and the process begin all over again, lets just hope the mystery men have deep pockets and are ready to spend because at the moment they have bought a lemon, we look all flashy and nice from the outside but on the inside we are rotten, rusted, diseased and cant even get out the garage, let alone speed down the motorway...
Too much emphasis is being placed on the role that managers play. Some managers are world beaters at one club, then rubbish at the next. Money, stability and plain good luck are far more important factors when determining success rather than personality. I'd love to see Ferguson or Mourinho try to manage a third division team with nothing to spend. It would be a very interesting experiment, but unfortunately it will never happen. There is only so much anyone can do when confronted with so many constraints.
Various different things need to come together at the same time, including the fans believing in the manager and players.
Henry believes that Parky is a top bloke and doesn't appreciate any criticism of him.
Totally wrong. When I have ever said that Parky can not be criticised? Never at all. So your whole point falls straight away.
What I was criticising was your, and Insufferable's, hypocrisy in hounding him constantly with "judge on results" and many other snide remarks and then totally moving the goalposts when it is a manager you decide you like and will support.
When Chris's team was winning there were constant references to how much better a coach and motivator he was than Parky, how the clean sheets after two games justified Powell's appointment (One of Insufferable Nigel's classics) and that "everything has changed" when clearly the level and style of play had not. Those comments on how good Powell IS (note IS not will be) have dried up now so the spin is "it's all Parky's players fault". But didn't those players win four on the bounce under Powell? Why were they so good then but not now? Plus half the team are now Powell signings. You can't have it both ways even though you always try.
That you have to keep referring back to Parky when defending Powell only shows how weak your defence of Chris is. You have nothing else but to heap all the blame on Phil because you can't or won't critically evaluate what Chris has done so far. Not what he will do but what he has done.
Powell needs to be judged as a failure or a success over next season (not two games as Insufferable did) when he can spend the promised money and build his own team.
What Parky did or didn't do is no longer relevant as he has gone. Move on FFS and judge Powell on his own merits not merely in comparison with the last incumbent. It is fruitless, petty minded and worse of all divisive. Your polemics just drive people in one camp or another or at least that is what you seem to want as you don't seem able to credit anyone you dislike with any talent or skill while refusing to accept any negatives about those you have chosen to put on a pedestal.
Henry believes that Parky is a top bloke and doesn't appreciate any criticism of him.
Totally wrong. When I have ever said that Parky can not be criticised? Never at all. So your whole point falls straight away.
What I was criticising was your, and Insufferable's, hypocrisy in hounding him constantly with "judge on results" and many other snide remarks and then totally moving the goalposts when it is a manager you decide you like and will support.
When Chris's team was winning there were constant references to how much better a coach and motivator he was than Parky, how the clean sheets after two games justified Powell's appointment (One of Insufferable Nigel's classics) and that "everything has changed" when clearly the level and style of play had not. Those comments on how good Powell IS (note IS not will be) have dried up now so the spin is "it's all Parky's players fault". But didn't those players win four on the bounce under Powell? Why were they so good then but not now? Plus half the team are now Powell signings. You can't have it both ways even though you always try.
That you have to keep referring back to Parky when defending Powell only shows how weak your defence of Chris is. You have nothing else but to heap all the blame on Phil because you can't or won't critically evaluate what Chris has done so far. Not what he will do but what he has done.
Powell needs to be judged as a failure or a success over next season (not two games as Insufferable did) when he can spend the promised money and build his own team.
What Parky did or didn't do is no longer relevant as he has gone. Move on FFS and judge Powell on his own merits not merely in comparison with the last incumbent. It is fruitless, petty minded and worse of all divisive. Your polemics just drive people in one camp or another or at least that is what you seem to want as you don't seem able to credit anyone you dislike with any talent or skill while refusing to accept any negatives about those you have chosen to put on a pedestal.
Well said and a lot more eloquently put than i can manage. What gets under my skin is the constant shifting of the goal posts in judging Powell and Parky.I really believe if we had someone like Neil Warnock in charge we would not be in the position we are in now. A Manager is very important,obviously the players are too, but the Manager provides direction,motivation,tactics etc.I will aim in future posts not to mention Parky anymore as it is now Powell's team and he should be judged on that fact to the end of the season and beyond.
[cite]I will aim in future posts not to mention Parky anymore as it is now Powell's team and he should be judged on that fact to the end of the season and beyond.
I have treid to do this dick and then see another post that drags us back into the same fruitless debate. Powell should be jusged on the team that he has whcih is now surely his and has been since daggers and has a record of 0-2-2 since then, but we have 8 to play and hopefully it will be 8-2-2 because nobody on this board wants CP to fail. Wether you are a fan of getting rid of Parkie, or keeping him, or recruiting CP or getting an expereinced manager, we are where we are and we have a Leg End in place who surely we can all agree we want to succeed for his sake, our sake and the clubs sake ... don't we?
Dick, I appreciate the compliment but it works both way.
The digs at Powell need to be given a rest as well. Constructive criticism yes, calling him a "cretin" as he was on a thread you contributed to on Into the Valley, definitely no.
[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]Dick, I appreciate the compliment but it works both way.
The digs at Powell need to be given a rest as well. Constructive criticism yes, calling him a "cretin" as he was on a thread you contributed to on Into the Valley, definitely no.
I did not call him a cretin, am i guilty by association? Just used that thread for convienience to put over my point. In hindsight i should have made it clear that i don't think he is a cretin, nor have i ever thought he is a cretin. Hope that clears it up!!! I will continue to post how i choose to post without your instruction for the " digs at Powell need to be given a rest". I hope i post in a constructive way although emotions do sometimes take over.You are not an arbiter of my views.
[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]Dick, I appreciate the compliment but it works both way.
The digs at Powell need to be given a rest as well. Constructive criticism yes, calling him a "cretin" as he was on a thread you contributed to on Into the Valley, definitely no.
I did not call him a cretin, am i guilty by association? Just used that thread for convienience to put over my point. In hindsight i should have made it clear that i don't think he is a cretin, nor have i ever thought he is a cretin. Hope that clears it up!!! I will continue to post how i choose to post without your instruction for the " digs at Powell need to be given a rest". I hope i post in a constructive way although emotions do sometimes take over.You are not an arbiter of my views.
Wind your neck in, this isn't Into the Valley.
I wasn't claiming to be an arbiter of any ones views least of all you but you have attacked this site constantly on ITV for fawning over Powell yet you appear to tolerate vile abuse of the same man. I'm glad you've cleared up that you don't think he's a cretin. Can you now tell Reams that.
Is this still going? I thought we had all moved on.
Can I just say, Saint Chris is much better dressed than the "former coach we are not alowed to mention" and would never wear a nylon V-neck sweater on match days or on any other occasion in public.
I would like to makethis point and that is that Dowie was uglier than both of them and probably the ugliest manager we have ever had, competing eith Andy Nelson
too early to say what the differences are but i would say that parky brought in a lot of crap players but could somehow get half decent results even if the performances were generally dire, whilst powell recognises how piss poor the players are but has not proven he can craft a winning team out of a pile of. Whether he has a better eye for a good player i guess we'll have to wait and see but then again, it was also put about that parky had a good eye for a player - can't see any justification for that even if he did have a reasonably limited budget. I would say Powell is shocked at just how poor this lot are but he hasn't shown anything to date which would suggest he should be given the funds to sort it out. This is the big problem and dilemma the board now face.
[cite]Posted By: Kap10[/cite]I would like to makethis point and that is that Dowie was uglier than both of them and probably the ugliest manager we have ever had, competing eith Andy Nelson
Henry believes that Parky is a top bloke and doesn't appreciate any criticism of him.
[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]
Totally wrong. When I have ever said that Parky can not be criticised? Never at all. So your whole point falls straight away.
What I was criticising was your, and Insufferable's, hypocrisy in hounding him constantly with "judge on results" and many other snide remarks and then totally moving the goalposts when it is a manager you decide you like and will support.
When Chris's team was winning there were constant references to how much better a coach and motivator he was than Parky, how the clean sheets after two games justified Powell's appointment (One of Insufferable Nigel's classics) and that "everything has changed" when clearly the level and style of play had not. Those comments on how good Powell IS (note IS not will be) have dried up now so the spin is "it's all Parky's players fault". But didn't those players win four on the bounce under Powell? Why were they so good then but not now? Plus half the team are now Powell signings. You can't have it both ways even though you always try.
That you have to keep referring back to Parky when defending Powell only shows how weak your defence of Chris is. You have nothing else but to heap all the blame on Phil because you can't or won't critically evaluate what Chris has done so far. Not what he will do but what he has done.
Powell needs to be judged as a failure or a success over next season (not two games as Insufferable did) when he can spend the promised money and build his own team.
What Parky did or didn't do is no longer relevant as he has gone. Move on FFS and judge Powell on his own merits not merely in comparison with the last incumbent. It is fruitless, petty minded and worse of all divisive. Your polemics just drive people in one camp or another or at least that is what you seem to want as you don't seem able to credit anyone you dislike with any talent or skill while refusing to accept any negatives about those you have chosen to put on a pedestal.
No, Henry, you have it totally wrong. Once again, you bully your way to your own conclusion without giving someone else's post any real thought and then take your argument in a completely different direction.
The original point was that Chris Powell had a much easier introduction and quick acceptance, which meant that Parky had the more difficult row to hoe ... so that Parky's job was more difficult right from the start. Parky won some people over, others he never won over and some were at least placated even if they never completely won over.
So your whole point falls away immediately.
Also, please find one instance -- ONE -- where I have come to Powell's defense as manager on Charlton Life.
Don't be putting words in my mouth.
Those "constant references" you wrote of -- they were from other posters.
If you are going to argue with someone, at least have the right person.
Comments
We'll have to wait a long time before people stop thinking of us as a big team - I always thought of Leeds as a big team, no matter how long they spent in League 1.
FACT!
Absolutely spot on. Some seem to be absolutely revelling in Powell's struggles because they think it makes their lukewarm backing at the time of Parky makes them some sort of all- seeing sage. I wish they would put just 10% of the same effort into backing our manager
As I've said before Parky took us to within 2 points of automatic promotion. One goal away at Leeds would have done it when we drew 0-0. Can blame him for the wrong decisions he supposedly made but he got us that close his way. Without a goalscoring striker, without the option of an out and out left winger for half a season (neither which are his fault). Does that not make him a good League 1 manager? Yet he's still being criticized for things like poor signings compared to Powell, yet Powell's signings are players we wouldn't have been able to afford at the time.
I agree he wouldn't have definitely taken us up this season, of course no one can say he would have. I'm not enjoying our struggles, it's just frustrating seeing Parky being criticized for things that were not his fault such as signing players of Abbott's quality rather than BWP's.
Yeah I agree with this, we fell short with a good squad. It's always easy to speak withnhindsightnbut every crap season we have I think to myself why didn't murray stump up that little bit extra to get us up (a
Andy Reid, striker last year, etc)
This was denied by Parky at Bromley Addicks. And no I am not suggesting that Uncle is a liar, nor am I suggesting Parkie is, but I am suggesting some form of miscommunication that may have contained a level of ambiguity in its nature. How many of us have been in meetings where you come out and people have different interpretations of what has been said. I to my cost have been hoisted by the petard of my flippant remarks being taken as gospel.
Henry believes that Parky is a top bloke and doesn't appreciate any criticism of him.
From what I've heard, Parky is a swell fellow. But was also a mediocre at best manager.
Not being accepted at the start, because of the circumstances of his hire, made his job even more difficult.
Powell was welcomed with open arms, but had to take over Parky's players.
Two different jobs, with the same club.
We know how one turned out.
We'll have to wait to see if the other works out any better.
Various different things need to come together at the same time, including the fans believing in the manager and players.
What I was criticising was your, and Insufferable's, hypocrisy in hounding him constantly with "judge on results" and many other snide remarks and then totally moving the goalposts when it is a manager you decide you like and will support.
When Chris's team was winning there were constant references to how much better a coach and motivator he was than Parky, how the clean sheets after two games justified Powell's appointment (One of Insufferable Nigel's classics) and that "everything has changed" when clearly the level and style of play had not. Those comments on how good Powell IS (note IS not will be) have dried up now so the spin is "it's all Parky's players fault". But didn't those players win four on the bounce under Powell? Why were they so good then but not now? Plus half the team are now Powell signings. You can't have it both ways even though you always try.
That you have to keep referring back to Parky when defending Powell only shows how weak your defence of Chris is. You have nothing else but to heap all the blame on Phil because you can't or won't critically evaluate what Chris has done so far. Not what he will do but what he has done.
Powell needs to be judged as a failure or a success over next season (not two games as Insufferable did) when he can spend the promised money and build his own team.
What Parky did or didn't do is no longer relevant as he has gone. Move on FFS and judge Powell on his own merits not merely in comparison with the last incumbent. It is fruitless, petty minded and worse of all divisive. Your polemics just drive people in one camp or another or at least that is what you seem to want as you don't seem able to credit anyone you dislike with any talent or skill while refusing to accept any negatives about those you have chosen to put on a pedestal.
Well said and a lot more eloquently put than i can manage. What gets under my skin is the constant shifting of the goal posts in judging Powell and Parky.I really believe if we had someone like Neil Warnock in charge we would not be in the position we are in now. A Manager is very important,obviously the players are too, but the Manager provides direction,motivation,tactics etc.I will aim in future posts not to mention Parky anymore as it is now Powell's team and he should be judged on that fact to the end of the season and beyond.
The digs at Powell need to be given a rest as well. Constructive criticism yes, calling him a "cretin" as he was on a thread you contributed to on Into the Valley, definitely no.
I did not call him a cretin, am i guilty by association? Just used that thread for convienience to put over my point. In hindsight i should have made it clear that i don't think he is a cretin, nor have i ever thought he is a cretin. Hope that clears it up!!! I will continue to post how i choose to post without your instruction for the " digs at Powell need to be given a rest". I hope i post in a constructive way although emotions do sometimes take over.You are not an arbiter of my views.
Wind your neck in, this isn't Into the Valley.
I wasn't claiming to be an arbiter of any ones views least of all you but you have attacked this site constantly on ITV for fawning over Powell yet you appear to tolerate vile abuse of the same man. I'm glad you've cleared up that you don't think he's a cretin. Can you now tell Reams that.
Can I just say, Saint Chris is much better dressed than the "former coach we are not alowed to mention" and would never wear a nylon V-neck sweater on match days or on any other occasion in public.
Was Dowie uglier than Deano?
Is Saint Chris better looking than Parky?
No, Henry, you have it totally wrong. Once again, you bully your way to your own conclusion without giving someone else's post any real thought and then take your argument in a completely different direction.
The original point was that Chris Powell had a much easier introduction and quick acceptance, which meant that Parky had the more difficult row to hoe ... so that Parky's job was more difficult right from the start. Parky won some people over, others he never won over and some were at least placated even if they never completely won over.
So your whole point falls away immediately.
Also, please find one instance -- ONE -- where I have come to Powell's defense as manager on Charlton Life.
Don't be putting words in my mouth.
Those "constant references" you wrote of -- they were from other posters.
If you are going to argue with someone, at least have the right person.