[cite]Posted By: American_Addick[/cite]Managers are always going to be compared with their immediate predecessors, until they can make you forget them. And if you can't, the next one will try to get them to forget you.
That's actually a pretty fair analogy, as Parky never set the ground alight to burn away the memories of the Pardew era.
Don't disagree to much with what AA says. The Powell experiment is proving an absolute disaster, its natural people make comparisons. Wished we could move on from it though.
The real question that needs answering is why is it such a disaster ? Because the answer to that should very much determine the future
Believe me, by the end of 2011 you won't be able to find anyone who voted Tory. People just can't be honest when they realise their opinion was wrong all along.
This is a no brainer. ( and I love Chris Powell ). We have f***** it. I could have accepted Parkinson leaving had we have bought in a real experienced proper manager. To bring back a legend was bad business. Left me feeling like all Newcastle supporters must have felt after Hughton left and they bought in Pardew,
I understand Powell was third or fourth choice. Makes you wonder if Poyet turned it down?
Parkinson was doing a good job. We will never know what he would have done with BWP or Ecclestone. But we need to get over it. WE FU***D it. The decision was a bad one, it isn't up for debate. Even the four wins at the start of the Powell era were lucky. The 'Parkinson Out' brigade should hang their heads, not in shame, but in the knowledge that it has been proven they know SFA about football.
To take up the original point about the difference. Parky was not fully welcomed by a lot of us, but CP has arrived as a playing legend, both guys are accepted as being nice people. The big difference is that CP has the unequivocable support of the Board, and at this moment is publicly trumpeted as the man to lead us forward. We will all be best served by supporting him wholeheartedly at this time.
None, neither of them make me want to go to see Charlton, even though I do.
I wasn't sure about Powell's appointment from the start and did not as others probably did, order his ceramic bust from the back of those Sunday supplement back covers. I just hope he can turn it around next season.
As for Parky, at one point we were 14th, then went on a great run that got us up to 2nd (which I missed, due to having a young family and going on holiday) but after that the football was terrible again.
Thus, I have not enjoyed any part of this season. Parky was a bit unfortunate to get sacked when we were in 5th and we probably would have made the play-offs, although the way we were playing there was no guarantee. There was no sadness from me when he went.
I'm not though pro-Powell and thought we needed a bit more experience and before Parkinson went they should have tapped up a replacement, but to look back at the Parkinson era through rose-tinted glasses is a joke.
[cite]Posted By: EastTerrace[/cite]None, neither of them make me want to go to see Charlton, even though I do.
I wasn't sure about Powell's appointment from the start and did not as others probably did, order his ceramic bust from the back of those Sunday supplement back covers.
I just hope he can turn it around next season.
As for Parky, at one point we were 14th, then went on a great run that got us up to 2nd (which I missed, due to having a young family and going on holiday) but after that the football was terrible again.
Thus, I have not enjoyed any part of this season. Parky was a bit unfortunate to get sacked when we were in 5th and we probably would have made the play-offs, although the way we were playing there was no guarantee. There was no sadness from me when he went.
I'm not though pro-Powell and thought we needed a bit more experience and before Parkinson went they should have tapped up a replacement, but to look back at the Parkinson era through rose-tinted glasses is a joke.
Your last paragraph is the key for me.
We should have done what all the proper clubs do and secured a decent and experienced replacement BEFORE we sacked Parkinson.
After we sacked him we were left looking stupid when Howe turned us down and had to turn to the novice Powell.
Sure, the ethics are dodgy but then again football is not about ethics, is it? You can bet your balls that Man United will have Fergies replacement well and truly sorted before the great man has even cleared his desk.
There is no way of knowing what would have transpired had Parky stayed in charge. We were playing badly and the crowd was turning against him and the team. Add to the mix injuries to key players that Powell has had to contend with and there's a possiblity that a Parky team might not have performed much better than Powell's.
Promotion was there for the taking last season, but his refusal to play Shelvey denied us of our best opportunity to get out of this hell hole. I can't forgive him for that, but apart from that major, major mistake I though he did well in this division in very difficult circumstances. However looking at the big picture, Parky left us with a much worse squad than the one he inherited in a worse league position, so on that basis his tenure can only be judged as a failure.
[cite]Posted By: queensland_addick[/cite]Promotion was there for the taking last season, but his refusal to play Shelvey denied us of our best opportunity to get out of this hell hole. I can't forgive him for that.
QA, that is YOUR opinion but I can't agree. Shelvey was dropped for a reason, mainly that he was a very young lad and he was not playing well at the time. You could see in his last 3 or 4 appearances how frustrated he was getting and, if you remember, certain elements in our crowd were starting to vocally turn against him.Youngsters like Jon-Jo can't be expected to put in performances week in week out. In the circumstances, giving him a rest was probably the only option. Then we agreed the deal with Liverpool, which basically saved us financially for another few months, and I have no doubt that Parky was instructed not to even think about playing JJ again that season. I can't see that Parky did anything wrong at all in the situation he found himself in.
It was denied at the time that PP was told not to play Jonjo. Do you have some new information on the matter that contradicts this?
I agree with the jist of Queensland's post. Last season we limped to a play off defeat with a better squad than we had this season - why are people so confident that we would have been in the play offs?
There really are some Mystic Megs on this board, aren't there....
Regardless of what happens with CP, there were many reasons why I think the board were right to think that Parky was not the right person to take the club forward in the long term. You'd think that he had morphed into Alex Ferguson and Pep Guardiola rolled into one reading some of the post on here. People have very short memories, don't they?
the injury to robbie elliot and parkys failure to see that randy was a better keeper was a big reason why we made the play offs and didn't make the automatics last year
Parky was hired because at the time we couldn't afford to hire a top rated manager and then by the time they realised he wasn't the right man for the job the board twiddled their thumbs for too long and couldn't afford to fire him and consequently we were relegated...
Powell was hired because at the time we couldn't afford to hire a top rated manager and then by the time they realised he wasn't the right man for the job the board twiddled their thumbs for too long and couldn't afford to fire him and consequently we're going to get relegated...
[cite]Posted By: queensland_addick[/cite]Parky left us with a much worse squad than the one he inherited in a worse league position, so on that basis his tenure can only be judged as a failure.
That's a sweeping statement that takes no account of circumstances.
An ever decreasing budget and many of his best players sold from underneath him before the start of each his two
League One seasons, goes a long way to explaining that one.
[cite]Posted By: bigstemarra[/cite]
I agree with the jist of Queensland's post. Last season we limped to a play off defeat with a better squad than we had this season
We didn't though - we challenged for the top 2 all season. We were very hard to beat - 8 league defeats all season.
The biggest difference between us and Leeds & Norwich (and the rest of the top 6 in fact) was not having a 20+ goals a season striker.
Can argue a lot of things made the difference, Parky's decisions with Shelvey or Randolph, bad defending meaning we only drew with Millwall at home, or stupid sendings off from Burton and Sodje v Swindon made etc.
Fact is Parky doing it his way got us very close to automatic promotion. For all the poor choices he made, there were plenty of unnoticed good ones that he did that won us points. So close that another season we'd have got enough points to have gone up automatically.
[cite]Posted By: oohaahmortimer[/cite]the injury to robbie elliot and parkys failure to see that randy was a better keeper was a big reason why we made the play offs and didn't make the automatics last year
powelly has been pony buti still love him!
Randy was pony when selected ahead of Elliot prior to the last few games of last season. Remember his duet with Paddy McCarthy against Southampton?!
It could be that by bringing Ikeme in Parky gave Randy the kick up the jacksy he needed to knuckle down in training and show what he could really do as indeed he did when given a run towards the end of the season.
As regards Shelvey even if Parky was instructed to leave him out nobody from the Club would ever admit it.
come on len that was one mistake in prolly his 3rd game if that
we all know randy is a lot better than the flapper and the fact that when he came in he only let in 4 goals in the last 9.5 league games is the reason we finished so high
Losing in the playoffs is just as pointless as finishing 20th - your season is wasted either way.
Maybe if we'd used one of the most exciting youth talents to have emerged from the club in years a bit more, then we might have finished 2nd and not 3rd and this would all be academic....ultimately it matters not a jot because what is past is past and finishing 3rd for us was the same as finishing 20th, i.e another wasted season.
[cite]Posted By: bigstemarra[/cite]No, we limped OUT of the play offs.
Losing in the playoffs is just as pointless as finishing 20th - your season is wasted either way.
Maybe if we'd used one of the most exciting youth talents to have emerged from the club in years a bit more, then we might have finished 2nd and not 3rd and this would all be academic....ultimately it matters not a jot because what is past is past and finishing 3rd for us was the same as finishing 20th, i.e another wasted season.
Another post that is just too stupid to believe, are you on a wind up? It seems that people are using any excuse to criticise the previous Manager.He got in the wrong players,he didnt play Shelvey enough, Mars wasnt in line with Jupiter, he wore a tank top. We got in the play offs and were undone by a missed penalty. We lost 8 games all season and still people have a go at Parky. For F**** sake can we stop this lambasting of a decent man, he did not deserve it. The only problem Parky had was not being an ex Charlton player. Can we now move on and judge Powell when he spends the millions without referring back to Parky. Hopefully people will judge Powell next season on his own terms, his players,his tactics, if it all goes wrong he is to blame. All i am asking for people is to be a bit more even handed and not be totally blinded that Powell was an ex Charlton player.
So, you think that it is wrong to criticise Parky for not using Jonjo? Why is that not allowed? If you think that this is the case, then you are obviously too stupid to understand the concept of an internet message board where people exchange opinions about valid concerns. What has criticising his management got to do with the fact that he was a decent man? Nothing. There have been, and still are, many legitimate concerns about how CP has managed the team so far. Who has a problem with them being discussed? No-one. If you think, that in answer to those who keep bringing up Parky as a stick to beat CP with, it is not OK to criticise his tenure in response, then you are the wind up merchant. So, because CP is a decent man too, then shouldn't he also be beyond criticism? Absolutely not.
I have got over the fact that Parky has gone, but many on here - such as yourself, obviously haven't. That's why YOU keep going on about him and rewriting history to the point where he is your eyes some sort of Brian Clough-like football genius. Whether CP cuts it or not (and this very much remains to be seen, let's face it, the omens don't look good so far, but time will tell), you do not have the ability to peek into alternate universes and definitively say that we would have gone up if we had remained with Parkinson. At the end of the day, we didn't get promoted last season, the board made a judgement that they had little faith of it occuring this season, they replaced him, and that's all there is to it. Stop being so precious.
"That's a sweeping statement that takes no account of circumstances.
An ever decreasing budget and many of his best players sold from underneath him before the start of each his two
League One seasons, goes a long way to explaining that one."
Oggy, I see it as a chicken/egg situation. Had he managed to keep us in the championship his budget would not have been cut to such a large extent. Likewise, had he managed to get us promoted it's unlikely his best players would have been sold from underneath him. These situations arose due to a lack of success, or put more unkindly, due to failure.
Pete,On the matter of Jonjo I base my opinion on what was stated on here by his Uncle, that Jonjo was told in a meeting with Parky that Parky thought he was too good to fit into the team.
"It has gone badly since -- can't imagine how a club the size of Charlton can lose IN THE LEAGUE to the Dagenhams and Rochdales of the world!"
More news just in. We are not a big club, we are not better than everyone else around us just because we are 'bigger'. The quicker we get over ourselves the sooner other clubs will stop seeing us as a 'giant kiling' and the easier we will find this league.
I think you're right, DRF. We have been treating it like our 'right 'to beat those sort of teams and it may be that the mentality of it has contributed to getting us to where we find ourselves now....still, when you see our stadium and the size of our support, it's easy to see why we might think like that....
We certainly aren't the first club to suffer from this syndrome and we won't be the last.
Parky was hired because at the time we couldn't afford to hire a top rated manager and then by the time they realised he wasn't the right man for the job the board twiddled their thumbs for too long and couldn't afford to fire him and consequently we were relegated...
Powell was hired because at the time we couldn't afford to hire a top rated manager and then by the time they realised he wasn't the right man for the job the board twiddled their thumbs for too long and couldn't afford to fire him and consequently we're going to get relegated...
Superb post. However, I am still surprised the anti Parkinson brigade are showing their faces. !!!!!!!!!!
Comments
The real question that needs answering is why is it such a disaster ? Because the answer to that should very much determine the future
This is a no brainer. ( and I love Chris Powell ). We have f***** it. I could have accepted Parkinson leaving had we have bought in a real experienced proper manager. To bring back a legend was bad business. Left me feeling like all Newcastle supporters must have felt after Hughton left and they bought in Pardew,
I understand Powell was third or fourth choice. Makes you wonder if Poyet turned it down?
Parkinson was doing a good job. We will never know what he would have done with BWP or Ecclestone. But we need to get over it. WE FU***D it. The decision was a bad one, it isn't up for debate. Even the four wins at the start of the Powell era were lucky. The 'Parkinson Out' brigade should hang their heads, not in shame, but in the knowledge that it has been proven they know SFA about football.
The big difference is that CP has the unequivocable support of the Board, and at this moment is publicly trumpeted as the man to lead us forward. We will all be best served by supporting him wholeheartedly at this time.
I wasn't sure about Powell's appointment from the start and did not as others probably did, order his ceramic bust from the back of those Sunday supplement back covers.
I just hope he can turn it around next season.
As for Parky, at one point we were 14th, then went on a great run that got us up to 2nd (which I missed, due to having a young family and going on holiday) but after that the football was terrible again.
Thus, I have not enjoyed any part of this season. Parky was a bit unfortunate to get sacked when we were in 5th and we probably would have made the play-offs, although the way we were playing there was no guarantee. There was no sadness from me when he went.
I'm not though pro-Powell and thought we needed a bit more experience and before Parkinson went they should have tapped up a replacement, but to look back at the Parkinson era through rose-tinted glasses is a joke.
Posted By: Henry Irving Source?
http://younggunsblog.co.uk/2011/03/arsenal-offer-parkinson-scouting-role/
Your last paragraph is the key for me.
We should have done what all the proper clubs do and secured a decent and experienced replacement BEFORE we sacked Parkinson.
After we sacked him we were left looking stupid when Howe turned us down and had to turn to the novice Powell.
Sure, the ethics are dodgy but then again football is not about ethics, is it? You can bet your balls that Man United will have Fergies replacement well and truly sorted before the great man has even cleared his desk.
He seems to like jumping from team to team.
I'd love them to poach Arsene Wenger off Arsenal.
Promotion was there for the taking last season, but his refusal to play Shelvey denied us of our best opportunity to get out of this hell hole. I can't forgive him for that, but apart from that major, major mistake I though he did well in this division in very difficult circumstances. However looking at the big picture, Parky left us with a much worse squad than the one he inherited in a worse league position, so on that basis his tenure can only be judged as a failure.
How come there are so many caretaker managers around, then?
Indeed, Parkinson was himself initially a caretaker.
Anyway, from unpromising beginnings and a misguided attempt to curtail the thread, this has turned into quite an interesting and rational discussion.
I agree with the jist of Queensland's post. Last season we limped to a play off defeat with a better squad than we had this season - why are people so confident that we would have been in the play offs?
There really are some Mystic Megs on this board, aren't there....
Regardless of what happens with CP, there were many reasons why I think the board were right to think that Parky was not the right person to take the club forward in the long term. You'd think that he had morphed into Alex Ferguson and Pep Guardiola rolled into one reading some of the post on here. People have very short memories, don't they?
Despite the fact that has been denined several times?
powelly has been pony buti still love him!
Parky was hired because at the time we couldn't afford to hire a top rated manager and then by the time they realised he wasn't the right man for the job the board twiddled their thumbs for too long and couldn't afford to fire him and consequently we were relegated...
Powell was hired because at the time we couldn't afford to hire a top rated manager and then by the time they realised he wasn't the right man for the job the board twiddled their thumbs for too long and couldn't afford to fire him and consequently we're going to get relegated...
That's a sweeping statement that takes no account of circumstances.
An ever decreasing budget and many of his best players sold from underneath him before the start of each his two
League One seasons, goes a long way to explaining that one.
The biggest difference between us and Leeds & Norwich (and the rest of the top 6 in fact) was not having a 20+ goals a season striker.
Can argue a lot of things made the difference, Parky's decisions with Shelvey or Randolph, bad defending meaning we only drew with Millwall at home, or stupid sendings off from Burton and Sodje v Swindon made etc.
Fact is Parky doing it his way got us very close to automatic promotion. For all the poor choices he made, there were plenty of unnoticed good ones that he did that won us points. So close that another season we'd have got enough points to have gone up automatically.
Randy was pony when selected ahead of Elliot prior to the last few games of last season. Remember his duet with Paddy McCarthy against Southampton?!
It could be that by bringing Ikeme in Parky gave Randy the kick up the jacksy he needed to knuckle down in training and show what he could really do as indeed he did when given a run towards the end of the season.
As regards Shelvey even if Parky was instructed to leave him out nobody from the Club would ever admit it.
we all know randy is a lot better than the flapper and the fact that when he came in he only let in 4 goals in the last 9.5 league games is the reason we finished so high
Losing in the playoffs is just as pointless as finishing 20th - your season is wasted either way.
Maybe if we'd used one of the most exciting youth talents to have emerged from the club in years a bit more, then we might have finished 2nd and not 3rd and this would all be academic....ultimately it matters not a jot because what is past is past and finishing 3rd for us was the same as finishing 20th, i.e another wasted season.
Another post that is just too stupid to believe, are you on a wind up? It seems that people are using any excuse to criticise the previous Manager.He got in the wrong players,he didnt play Shelvey enough, Mars wasnt in line with Jupiter, he wore a tank top. We got in the play offs and were undone by a missed penalty. We lost 8 games all season and still people have a go at Parky. For F**** sake can we stop this lambasting of a decent man, he did not deserve it. The only problem Parky had was not being an ex Charlton player. Can we now move on and judge Powell when he spends the millions without referring back to Parky. Hopefully people will judge Powell next season on his own terms, his players,his tactics, if it all goes wrong he is to blame. All i am asking for people is to be a bit more even handed and not be totally blinded that Powell was an ex Charlton player.
I have got over the fact that Parky has gone, but many on here - such as yourself, obviously haven't. That's why YOU keep going on about him and rewriting history to the point where he is your eyes some sort of Brian Clough-like football genius. Whether CP cuts it or not (and this very much remains to be seen, let's face it, the omens don't look good so far, but time will tell), you do not have the ability to peek into alternate universes and definitively say that we would have gone up if we had remained with Parkinson. At the end of the day, we didn't get promoted last season, the board made a judgement that they had little faith of it occuring this season, they replaced him, and that's all there is to it. Stop being so precious.
"That's a sweeping statement that takes no account of circumstances.
An ever decreasing budget and many of his best players sold from underneath him before the start of each his two
League One seasons, goes a long way to explaining that one."
Oggy, I see it as a chicken/egg situation. Had he managed to keep us in the championship his budget would not have been cut to such a large extent. Likewise, had he managed to get us promoted it's unlikely his best players would have been sold from underneath him. These situations arose due to a lack of success, or put more unkindly, due to failure.
Pete,On the matter of Jonjo I base my opinion on what was stated on here by his Uncle, that Jonjo was told in a meeting with Parky that Parky thought he was too good to fit into the team.
More news just in. We are not a big club, we are not better than everyone else around us just because we are 'bigger'. The quicker we get over ourselves the sooner other clubs will stop seeing us as a 'giant kiling' and the easier we will find this league.
We certainly aren't the first club to suffer from this syndrome and we won't be the last.
Parky was hired because at the time we couldn't afford to hire a top rated manager and then by the time they realised he wasn't the right man for the job the board twiddled their thumbs for too long and couldn't afford to fire him and consequently we were relegated...
Powell was hired because at the time we couldn't afford to hire a top rated manager and then by the time they realised he wasn't the right man for the job the board twiddled their thumbs for too long and couldn't afford to fire him and consequently we're going to get relegated...
Superb post. However, I am still surprised the anti Parkinson brigade are showing their faces. !!!!!!!!!!