[cite]Posted By: Ledge[/cite]cousins and mambo cant be any worse than dailly or docherty
They can.
Er no! they can't because Dailly and Doc have no future!. at least beyond this season surely!
Nothing against Dailly, but well past his sell date! The Doc just is just not up to it...
The kids may be raw, but at least they have time on there side, and if they make the odd mistake, well they are hardly following in the footsteps of giants are they!.
this is a good point some people are making etc putting our young players into this team now would hurt them!! pardew put in shelvey and wagstaff for games at end of season then we had no hope of going up or down
Well give me Shelvey any of the week over the so called 'experienced' players.
Not saying that they should be thrown in at the deep end , but introduced where possible, as much as possible!
if the loan signings are that good y r they on loan to us simple its a case of let some one else look after them cos theyaint gonna get a game here and it forms a domino effect it has nothing to do with ability because our youth teams play their youth teams and we do not judge on individual ability but team ability
[cite]Posted By: Ledge[/cite]cousins and mambo cant be any worse than dailly or docherty
They can.
Er no! they can't because Dailly and Doc have no future!. at least beyond this season surely!
Nothing against Dailly, but well past his sell date! The Doc just is just not up to it...
The kids may be raw, but at least they have time on there side, and if they make the odd mistake, well they are hardly following in the footsteps of giants are they!.
We're not talking about the future though.
I would rather Dailly and Doherty against Southampton than both Mambo and Cousins.
Mambo couldn't stay in Eastbourne's team and Cousins is only just 17. Good player but would struggle in the air against a big physical striker.
One thing we've seen from our two recent relegations is that someone can always do worse than the player you already have.
I want to see them come through as much as anyone but it has to be done in the right way.
I must admit, it might be the time to give Mambo a run soon - we need to see if he will sink or swim for next season. I have a suspicion he will swim but we will need a bit of patience to begin with. Physically he has what is needed.
Unless we give the Kids a try then we will not find another Rufus -Walsh -Lee -Parker etc etc
And i would much rather see Tuna than Nouble -whats the Point of giving some other teams player the experience. - have we ever had a decent Loanee in the 3 seasons and Is the reserve team that bad ???
[quote][cite]Posted By: HarryHutchens[/cite]Personally I don't really buy the idea that bringing youngsters in too early knocks their confidence forever more. However, I would also say that for Powell to being them in now would be as good as giving up on the play-offs, which I think that he still feels is achieveable despite what a lot of the supporters think (me included, sadly).[/quote]
There was once a charlton youth player who played for the England U18's and was seen as a great prospect, but we did not have a lot of money and he was thrown into the first team. He struggled, he was not allowed to learn his trade in the youth team and then through occaisional substitutions, no he played against hairy assed topflight centre halves who knocked him from pillar to post. he never lived up to the potential he had as a goal scorer, never really attacked the ball always seemed to hold back. Even though he became a club legend his lack of ability to attack the ball made him also a controversial figure, fans wore t-shirts celebrating his only ever hatrick for the club and when he left the club for another south london refugee club he scored with two attacking headers on his debut,but he hardly ever scored again.
He was a legend but if he had been developed properly as a youth,he would have been a goalscoring legend and that would be why we called Leaburn from the stands.
Kap - really agree with you on that -sort of - he had a lot to his game but lacked a striker's instinct. He scored lots as a youth and the valid question is, could it have been knocked out of him by playing him too soon. I always thought we were better with him in the side than out at that time though, even when he didn't get the goals you would expect from a striker.
the sort of is because you can never be sure if it was just a case that he didn't have it in him.
Our season is over, even the most optimistic fans most know, so why bother with loan players? Unless we have a chance of signing them permanently I just don't see the point. Why not play the kids, give them the match practice they'll need and with a few additions over the summer we could mould a strong side together for next season.
Let's be honest even when we've won games this season we've still loooked abismal. Get a team gelled together now and start again.
The attitude of the majority of Charlton supporters, in my experience over the last five or so years, is a disgrace, and I wouldn't wish it on any young up-and-coming players to have to put up with the vitriol delivered from the stands.
If hairy-arsed defenders can break a striker, then just think what 10,000 hairy-palmed angry, frustrated (not necessarily because of the football) men could do to our youngsters. Hell, I think Charlton would perform better if they played behind closed doors, but that's another thread.
I repeat : It's obvious that very few of you have ever seen any of the kids play. If you'd seen Mambo for any length of time, for example, you'd not be calling for him to replace Dailly. Same applies to Tuna as a replacement for any of the strikers we have - and that's saying something. This is not to say that they won't develop. But they sure ain't ready for this league now. And it could finish them forever.
I think the point is that maybe for some they will develop better if they get a run of games but the counter point is that putting them in a struggling team with the fans looking for scapegoats could have the opposite effect. It would seem the nbest approach would be to blood one or two but not go overboard. Also, whilst all of us have given up on reaching the play offs- would you be happy if Powell had at this stage - I certainly wouldn't. A good run and we could get ourself back in it - I seriously can't see that happening to the extent we would need but the players and coaches should be trying to make it happen until it is mathematically impossible for it to happen.
[cite]Posted By: Nadou[/cite]I repeat : It's obvious that very few of you have ever seen any of the kids play. If you'd seen Mambo for any length of time, for example, you'd not be calling for him to replace Dailly. Same applies to Tuna as a replacement for any of the strikers we have - and that's saying something. This is not to say that they won't develop. But they sure ain't ready for this league now. And it could finish them forever.
Sorry to dissapoint you Nadou, yes I have seen Tamer play I have also played with the lad albeit a few years ago, I have followed his progress at Charlton on many an occassion, and as people on here know I have always held a high regard for the lad, all I know is that he has always scored, and has the ability to score. The last time he was in the first team he scored albeit in the paint pot trophy 2 seasons ago!. If we could just step aside from my 'biased endorsement' of the lad for a moment I am not saying play all the young lads, but introduce them as much as possible instead of the usual rota of loanees! Besides BWP who is this mystery striker we have had during the past couple of seasons I must have missed him!. I know that others support playing the kids, where posssible!, and that does not mean starting with them, or giving them 10 minutes, but a fair shake!. Some people are not even prepared to give players a chance,before they are shown the door....
[cite]Posted By: BR7_addick[/cite]This thread is spot on!
Our season is over, even the most optimistic fans most know, so why bother with loan players? Unless we have a chance of signing them permanently I just don't see the point. Why not play the kids, give them the match practice they'll need and with a few additions over the summer we could mould a strong side together for next season.
Let's be honest even when we've won games this season we've still loooked abismal. Get a team gelled together now and start again.
MuttleyCAFC is right.
Our season is not over. I do not think we will get relegated, but if we did send all the loanees back and started playing the likes of Tuna and Mambo regularly, we would get sucked into the relegation battle quicker than you think.
Neither of them have succeeded at Blue Square level. Therefore there is no chance of them being good enough for League 1 at the moment.
Yes and he has......check out his recent loan spell at Aveley.
He also scored regularly for Charlton when I saw him play albeit at the academy or in the pre seasons!.
Been a bit hard lately as he has been 'loaned out'.
My response was that Nadou was claiming that people had not seen these players!.
There are no guarantees with youngsters, but with some of our current lot you would be checking the 'small print' for sure!.
And the question is 'our own or someone elses!' or do we not have faith in our training/teaching methods!
He came on for one minute this weekend (v AFC Hornchurch) so not sure if he's setting the world on fire there (he did score a hat trick in the Essex senior cup earlier this season so clearly has some pedigree !).
I'm sorry ken from bexley, but pretty much everyone has seen Tuna play as he's one of the few youngsters who've had a crack in the first team, and I have to say I really don't think he'll cut it. I'm prepared to eat my words, and hope I do, but I think the fact that he's played most of his first team games at park levels says it all really. Surely if he was good enough for this level he would at least be playing in the confrence ?
It's madness to throw players in just because they're "ours". Where does that logic end ? We need a good central midfielder and I've heard our under-9's team have a fairly good one, why on earth haven't we tried him intead of getting Parrot in ?
I can't honestly believe people really want to see a team of 17 year olds getting hammered 5-0 every week for the rest of the season (which is exactly what would happen) just to satisfy their frustration at the current side.
Take on board se9 addick, your opinion and Tamer is not in the 'frame at present', so hard to argue otherwise!.
Seeing that his elder brother, and my twin sons both played at Gravesend and Northfleet and turned down the opportunity to play at there apprenticeship set up for other reasons!.
The lad has been at Charlton since 7 and trained with my old club till secondary school on a regular basis.
I am as dissapointed as anyone, but we shall have to wait and see if he is released!.
One point se9 I think he was a leading goal scorer in pre season the year before, and the last time he played for the first team he scored!.
But I take on board your point!, trouble is the shambles that is our team at present few people would sign with a few noteable exceptions of BWP, Jackson, Solly, and Jenkinson, and Wagstaffe!., the last three being Charlton's own!
I'd say trust the club with this, it's not often they've got it wrong.
Aveley are in the Isthmian Premier, a league below the Blue Square South. Davisson and Perkins are/were also at that level, it'd be a huge step up to League One.
Mambo did well in the BSS last season, but was dropped to the bench by Eastbourne in the Blue Square Prem this season.
Players that have done well at Blue Square Prem level usually make some sort of impact in the first team. Elliot and Randolph at Accrington Stanley, Jenkinson at Eastbourne Borough, Wagstaff at Northwich Victoria. Rashid Yussuff had a few loans there and is still playing there with AFC Wimbledon. Didn't work out for him here but it seems he was on loan at the right level. Stavrinou has had a couple of decent loan spells as well at that level, but being more of a defensive midfielder it's probably been hard for him to get close to the first team with the players we've had/still have in that position.
As I said, the club haven't often got it wrong. I know it sounds harsh but these players usually go on loan to the right league for their ability at the time.
[cite]Posted By: ken from bexley[/cite]Take on board se9 addick, your opinion and Tamer is not in the 'frame at present', so hard to argue otherwise!.
Seeing that his elder brother, and my twin sons both played at Gravesend and Northfleet and turned down the opportunity to play at there apprenticeship set up for other reasons!.
The lad has been at Charlton since 7 and trained with my old club till secondary school on a regular basis.
I am as dissapointed as anyone, but we shall have to wait and see if he is released!.
One point se9 I think he was a leading goal scorer in pre season the year before, and the last time he played for the first team he scored!.
But I take on board your point!, trouble is the shambles that is our team at present few people would sign with a few noteable exceptions of BWP, Jackson, Solly, and Jenkinson, and Wagstaffe!., the last three being Charlton's own!
It's very frustraiting when you want a player to do well and become the success you think you can, all the more when you have a personal connection to them. Unfortunately some times you have to accept that they just aren't good enough for this level - now. That's not to say that they wont get there one day, there have been many examples of players who have gone back to the bottom and built themselves up. Unfortunately we can't afford to carry anyone at the moment and anyone who wont be up to scratch in the next 18-24 months (which Tuna wont) needs to be released.
I trust in Nadou's opinion of the youngsters (although I have seen a little of Mambo and think he could definately be given a chance) and if Nadou says they aren't ready then I think we should accept that as he has seen them play. We should still be very proud of our academy. As you've pointed out Jenkinson, Wagstaff and Solly have come through and are amongst the better players we have now. Add to that Elliott and Shelvy, you can even throw in McGinty and it's certainly paying it's way. If only the senoir pro's were up to scratch we might even have a team !
O dear we are Doomed (dads Army ) ...a life of loanees and our own Kids playing with all kinds of Seconds and cleaning boots.
All the loanees willl be going back to their Prem Clubs next year to fight for a Shirt ....bet the only one who stays is Bessone and we have better already.
And as for getting into the play offs ....more chance of getting an invite to the Royal wedding...
Can you believe this is the Same team that played Orient of the park with 10 men winning 3-1
Comments
Er no! they can't because Dailly and Doc have no future!. at least beyond this season surely!
Nothing against Dailly, but well past his sell date! The Doc just is just not up to it...
The kids may be raw, but at least they have time on there side, and if they make the odd mistake, well they are hardly following in the footsteps of giants are they!.
Not saying that they should be thrown in at the deep end , but introduced where possible, as much as possible!
I would rather Dailly and Doherty against Southampton than both Mambo and Cousins.
Mambo couldn't stay in Eastbourne's team and Cousins is only just 17. Good player but would struggle in the air against a big physical striker.
One thing we've seen from our two recent relegations is that someone can always do worse than the player you already have.
I want to see them come through as much as anyone but it has to be done in the right way.
And i would much rather see Tuna than Nouble -whats the Point of giving some other teams player the experience. - have we ever had a decent Loanee in the 3 seasons and
Is the reserve team that bad ???
There was once a charlton youth player who played for the England U18's and was seen as a great prospect, but we did not have a lot of money and he was thrown into the first team. He struggled, he was not allowed to learn his trade in the youth team and then through occaisional substitutions, no he played against hairy assed topflight centre halves who knocked him from pillar to post. he never lived up to the potential he had as a goal scorer, never really attacked the ball always seemed to hold back. Even though he became a club legend his lack of ability to attack the ball made him also a controversial figure, fans wore t-shirts celebrating his only ever hatrick for the club and when he left the club for another south london refugee club he scored with two attacking headers on his debut,but he hardly ever scored again.
He was a legend but if he had been developed properly as a youth,he would have been a goalscoring legend and that would be why we called Leaburn from the stands.
the sort of is because you can never be sure if it was just a case that he didn't have it in him.
Our season is over, even the most optimistic fans most know, so why bother with loan players? Unless we have a chance of signing them permanently I just don't see the point. Why not play the kids, give them the match practice they'll need and with a few additions over the summer we could mould a strong side together for next season.
Let's be honest even when we've won games this season we've still loooked abismal. Get a team gelled together now and start again.
If hairy-arsed defenders can break a striker, then just think what 10,000 hairy-palmed angry, frustrated (not necessarily because of the football) men could do to our youngsters. Hell, I think Charlton would perform better if they played behind closed doors, but that's another thread.
Sorry to dissapoint you Nadou, yes I have seen Tamer play I have also played with the lad albeit a few years ago, I have followed his progress at Charlton on many an occassion, and as people on here know I have always held a high regard for the lad, all I know is that he has always scored, and has the ability to score. The last time he was in the first team he scored albeit in the paint pot trophy 2 seasons ago!. If we could just step aside from my 'biased endorsement' of the lad for a moment I am not saying play all the young lads, but introduce them as much as possible instead of the usual rota of loanees! Besides BWP who is this mystery striker we have had during the past couple of seasons I must have missed him!. I know that others support playing the kids, where posssible!, and that does not mean starting with them, or giving them 10 minutes, but a fair shake!. Some people are not even prepared to give players a chance,before they are shown the door....
MuttleyCAFC is right.
Our season is not over. I do not think we will get relegated, but if we did send all the loanees back and started playing the likes of Tuna and Mambo regularly, we would get sucked into the relegation battle quicker than you think.
Neither of them have succeeded at Blue Square level. Therefore there is no chance of them being good enough for League 1 at the moment.
He also scored regularly for Charlton when I saw him play albeit at the academy or in the pre seasons!.
Been a bit hard lately as he has been 'loaned out'.
My response was that Nadou was claiming that people had not seen these players!.
There are no guarantees with youngsters, but with some of our current lot you would be checking the 'small print' for sure!.
And the question is 'our own or someone elses!' or do we not have faith in our training/teaching methods!
If he's going to be good enough for League 1, he should be banging them in 4/5/6 tiers below. What are his stats for Aveley like?
I'm sorry ken from bexley, but pretty much everyone has seen Tuna play as he's one of the few youngsters who've had a crack in the first team, and I have to say I really don't think he'll cut it. I'm prepared to eat my words, and hope I do, but I think the fact that he's played most of his first team games at park levels says it all really. Surely if he was good enough for this level he would at least be playing in the confrence ?
It's madness to throw players in just because they're "ours". Where does that logic end ? We need a good central midfielder and I've heard our under-9's team have a fairly good one, why on earth haven't we tried him intead of getting Parrot in ?
I can't honestly believe people really want to see a team of 17 year olds getting hammered 5-0 every week for the rest of the season (which is exactly what would happen) just to satisfy their frustration at the current side.
Seeing that his elder brother, and my twin sons both played at Gravesend and Northfleet and turned down the opportunity to play at there apprenticeship set up for other reasons!.
The lad has been at Charlton since 7 and trained with my old club till secondary school on a regular basis.
I am as dissapointed as anyone, but we shall have to wait and see if he is released!.
One point se9 I think he was a leading goal scorer in pre season the year before, and the last time he played for the first team he scored!.
But I take on board your point!, trouble is the shambles that is our team at present few people would sign with a few noteable exceptions of BWP, Jackson, Solly, and Jenkinson, and Wagstaffe!., the last three being Charlton's own!
Aveley are in the Isthmian Premier, a league below the Blue Square South. Davisson and Perkins are/were also at that level, it'd be a huge step up to League One.
Mambo did well in the BSS last season, but was dropped to the bench by Eastbourne in the Blue Square Prem this season.
Players that have done well at Blue Square Prem level usually make some sort of impact in the first team. Elliot and Randolph at Accrington Stanley, Jenkinson at Eastbourne Borough, Wagstaff at Northwich Victoria. Rashid Yussuff had a few loans there and is still playing there with AFC Wimbledon. Didn't work out for him here but it seems he was on loan at the right level. Stavrinou has had a couple of decent loan spells as well at that level, but being more of a defensive midfielder it's probably been hard for him to get close to the first team with the players we've had/still have in that position.
As I said, the club haven't often got it wrong. I know it sounds harsh but these players usually go on loan to the right league for their ability at the time.
It's very frustraiting when you want a player to do well and become the success you think you can, all the more when you have a personal connection to them. Unfortunately some times you have to accept that they just aren't good enough for this level - now. That's not to say that they wont get there one day, there have been many examples of players who have gone back to the bottom and built themselves up. Unfortunately we can't afford to carry anyone at the moment and anyone who wont be up to scratch in the next 18-24 months (which Tuna wont) needs to be released.
I trust in Nadou's opinion of the youngsters (although I have seen a little of Mambo and think he could definately be given a chance) and if Nadou says they aren't ready then I think we should accept that as he has seen them play. We should still be very proud of our academy. As you've pointed out Jenkinson, Wagstaff and Solly have come through and are amongst the better players we have now. Add to that Elliott and Shelvy, you can even throw in McGinty and it's certainly paying it's way. If only the senoir pro's were up to scratch we might even have a team !
All the loanees willl be going back to their Prem Clubs next year to fight for a Shirt ....bet the only one who stays is Bessone and we have better already.
And as for getting into the play offs ....more chance of getting an invite to the Royal wedding...
Can you believe this is the Same team that played Orient of the park with 10 men winning 3-1
Cut and paste and read last bit ......bring in OUR KIDS
"The second bit of good news is 19 year old defender Carl Jenkinson who is the best player in a red shirt seen at the Valley for many seasons."
is going a bit far. I can't be bothered to pick holes in the rest of it.
EDIT: sorry didn't realise another thread had been created especially for this article