Agree that negativity is bad and breeds bad results
Disagree that the fans have been especially negative this season. That may change, but I think that the fans as a whole have been good. A bit quiet, but OK.
I don't think I will ever boo, at players, managers or the referee. It's all a bit ridiculous. If others want to do that, I can't stop them.
[cite]Posted By: WSS[/cite]The fans have been surprisingly patient this season I think.
I agree and maybe its down to people knowing there's been big change player wise and that some of the players are half decebt and need time to gel , just hope its double quick cos this shit we're being served up can't continue for much longer cos the apologists are running out of excuses and reasons for our complete and utter ponyness
[cite]Posted By: WSS[/cite]The fans have been surprisingly patient this season I think.
I agree and maybe its down to people knowing there's been big change player wise and that some of the players are half decebt and need time to gel , just hope its double quick cos this shit we're being served up can't continue for much longer cos the apologists are running out of excuses and reasons for our complete and utter ponyness
[cite]Posted By: Oggy Red
Charlton have always been at their most successful when players and supporters pull together...the sheer amount of negativity at The Valley is not going to help anybody. Surely supporters can see this?
Oggy, welcome back. All I can say is that you have been really lucky to have missed some of the worst dross I've seen CAFC play in 44 years . Truly, horrible and painful to watch. No quality, no spirit, no nothing - and getting WORSE every week.
The negativity is not coming from the fans,old chap. As WSS says, we have been astonishingly patient given the excruciating rubbish we are paying to watch at the moment. The negativity is coming from the pitch, where we seem to have a bunch of total strangers out there. And that includes Racon and Semedo, who despite playing together in midfield for four years, look like they've never met each other before.
Parky admitted that what we served up yesterday was ''unacceptable''. But there are still supporters telling us we should accept it because that's what fans are supposed to do.
Right now I think the players do not deserve the fans. It is most definitely NOT vice versa.
And if you had seen the last three home games v Notts County, D&R and MK Dons , even though we unjustifiably won two of them, you really, really would not be saying these things!
When you catch up at Plymouth net week, you will understand what weve been going through, old friend.
It is obviously not entirely the fault of the fans but in a game where confidence plays a big part the fans can certainly help by being supportive rather than negative.
Ask yourself what motivates YOU to do better. If you can honestly answer booing and abuse then carry on but otherwise think on....
if i hear one more time that it is anyone elses fault other than parkinson, kinsella,breaker, and the squad of toss pots that dare to call themselves footballers i fear i will explode
IT IS NOT THE FANS FAULT, IT IS NOT THE LINO'S FAULT, IT IS NOT THE REFS FAULT,
Look no further than those paid to do a job that they are either unable to do due to capability or being sent out to perform in a mannor to which they are unacustomed.
[quote][cite]Posted By: nth london addick[/cite]if i hear one more time that it is anyone elses fault other than parkinson, kinsella,breaker, and the squad of toss pots that dare to call themselves footballers i fear i will explode
IT IS NOT THE FANS FAULT, IT IS NOT THE LINO'S FAULT, IT IS NOT THE REFS FAULT,
Look no further than those paid to do a job that they are either unable to do due to capability or being sent out to perform in a mannor to which they are unacustomed.
Whilst i agree that booing is counterproductive during a game i dont blame those who do after a shocking performance even if i dont myself.
The argument is completely ignoring facts. At Millwall both home and at the humiliation away the players got nothing but roaring support and it still didnt fire the players up.
Dagenham the other week they were cheered on etc and still got embarrassed. Ive never heard any boos at any away games ive been to in recent years and this season the home ones have generally been in the minority.
These players are paid well to do something we would love to do for free and we care about the club more than they or parkinson will ever do and want the club to do well and will be here long after they are picking up their next pay cheques and left with what their performances have cost us....ie battling it out in the thrid division or worse.
We give them the support and are quite restrained on the whole in showing our displeasure when a player cant take a throw in properly or pass to a team mate ....the players and manager need to meet us haalfway with their performances and people really need to stop making excuses for their every failing.
I don't know what games SE7Jimmy goes to, but it sounds like he is mistaking us for Spurs or West Ham. I can't believe how patient the majority of Charlton fans are having to put up with the crap that has been dished up in front of them over the past couple of seasons. If anything we might be just a little too restrained.
I may be making a controversial comment but what is the point of booing? The players know if they are playing badly, the best thing to do is to get behind the players and support them. When Newcaastle went down their fans didn't boo they got behind them and supported them for a season in the Championship. I was one of the few who didn't boo at Brentford at the weekend but I can change it on my own.
If players are not good enough or lack the organisation or mental strength required, they will lose football matches.
For instance, look at Liverpool. They are struggling for the reasons stated - you'd hardly say they lack for vocal support and encouragement would you?
[cite]Posted By: redsek2003[/cite]I don't know what games SE7Jimmy goes to, but it sounds like he is mistaking us for Spurs or West Ham. I can't believe how patient the majority of Charlton fans are having to put up with the crap that has been dished up in front of them over the past couple of seasons. If anything we might be just a little too restrained.
Yes, well said Redsek. Berating the fans is as much of a knee-jerk on the part of some people, as those who demand Parky should be sacked every time we suffer a reverse.
Charlton fans have been long-suffering in recent years and most of us have shown a patience that certain managers and players have done nothing to earn.
[cite]Posted By: grumpyaddick[/cite]I think we may have the solution here.
Improve the support by putting the players in the North Upper and improve the team by selecting from the season ticket holders.
I am too old, over 6ft 2, have no pace, poor control and little tactical awareness so I will replace Benson.
Any other volunteers?
I've spent my entire life trying hard to be a decent sort of 'hail fellow, well met' kind of honest and straightforward chap - and it's got me nowhere. So can I be the new Parky?
I have to admit, where i sit in the lower North there are a large group of fans who sit around me who spent all last season booing, whinging, criticising, being less than supportive of a team i love and i wondered why they bothered to turn up. I have hardly heard a peep out of them this season, even after some really poor displays and stupid mistakes. So I honestly don't think you can blame the fans for getting on the players backs, because in my opinion they haven't been. Not to the extent of last season, in fact nowhere near.
You can't put it down to the players not knowing each other because the team keeps changing, because it isn't. The team is the same no matter the result because we haven't got the numbers to be able to do that.
You can't put it down to the the players still thinking that we are a Premiership club and think they can just turn up, because none of those players are here any more.
You can't put it down to bad eggs in the group (Moo2, etc) because they aren't there any more.
You have to put it down the management before kick off and as soon as it kicks-off the players are responsible for the results. They are the ones paid to put in the effort, score goals, create goals, defend, tackle, etc. If the team on the pitch is not doing it, the management have to make alterations to the tactics and personnel to make it work.
Parkinson has brought in the players he wants. Apart from Llera and Francis, i think he has bought some very good players for this level. We have seen glimpses that they can do it. Against Dagenham we ran the pitch in the first half, we just couldn't finish them off. Leyton Orient we played brilliantly in the second half and destroyed them. The team and management know they can do it, but they don't seem to be able to keep it up for the full 90 minutes and if things aren't going well they don't know how to change a game.
Management and players have to take responsibility for performances. I don't condone booing and do find it counter-productive, but i honestly don't believe the fans have been pressuring the players or manager so far. But the worrying thing is if they don't start performing the boo boys will be out.
Off_it
Like I said last week....I dont know you Pal, and I was prepared to give you the benefit of the doubt after your keyoard warrior antics last week....but cut out the crap....I know Rob (Oggy) I've met him quite a few times, and Id consider him a Charlton mate...he wears a pair of huge rose tinted specs to the Valley as a joke...ok....now lay off the sniping and grow up.
[cite]Posted By: Madz[/cite]I have to admit, where i sit in the lower North there are a large group of fans who sit around me who spent all last season booing, whinging, criticising, being less than supportive of a team i love and i wondered why they bothered to turn up. I have hardly heard a peep out of them this season, even after some really poor displays and stupid mistakes. So I honestly don't think you can blame the fans for getting on the players backs, because in my opinion they haven't been. Not to the extent of last season, in fact nowhere near.
You can't put it down to the players not knowing each other because the team keeps changing, because it isn't. The team is the same no matter the result because we haven't got the numbers to be able to do that.
You can't put it down to the the players still thinking that we are a Premiership club and think they can just turn up, because none of those players are here any more.
You can't put it down to bad eggs in the group (Moo2, etc) because they aren't there any more.
You have to put it down the management before kick off and as soon as it kicks-off the players are responsible for the results. They are the ones paid to put in the effort, score goals, create goals, defend, tackle, etc. If the team on the pitch is not doing it, the management have to make alterations to the tactics and personnel to make it work.
Parkinson has brought in the players he wants. Apart from Llera and Francis, i think he has bought some very good players for this level. We have seen glimpses that they can do it. Against Dagenham we ran the pitch in the first half, we just couldn't finish them off. Leyton Orient we played brilliantly in the second half and destroyed them. The team and management know they can do it, but they don't seem to be able to keep it up for the full 90 minutes and if things aren't going well they don't know how to change a game.
Management and players have to take responsibility for performances. I don't condone booing and do find it counter-productive, but i honestly don't believe the fans have been pressuring the players or manager so far. But the worrying thing is if they don't start performing the boo boys will be out.
[cite]Posted By: Telnotinoz[/cite]Off_it
Like I said last week....I dont know you Pal, and I was prepared to give you the benefit of the doubt after your keyoard warrior antics last week....but cut out the crap....I know Rob (Oggy) I've met him quite a few times, and Id consider him a Charlton mate...he wears a pair of huge rose tinted specs to the Valley as a joke...ok....now lay off the sniping and grow up.
beat me to it, off it we all know oggy will always find a bright side, but at the moment there is no bright side.
[cite]Posted By: Telnotinoz[/cite]Off_it
Like I said last week....I dont know you Pal, and I was prepared to give you the benefit of the doubt after your keyoard warrior antics last week....but cut out the crap....I know Rob (Oggy) I've met him quite a few times, and Id consider him a Charlton mate...he wears a pair of huge rose tinted specs to the Valley as a joke...ok....now lay off the sniping and grow up.
beat me to it, off it we all know oggy will always find a bright side, but at the moment there is no bright side.
I am so glad Oggy is back! Ive missed his brilliant and thoughtful outlook on not just cafc but life too. It's always easier to be negative but Oggy does not know what negativity is and I know he has had more cause than most to be negative.
I know we have always had a higher percentage of tools for fans in some ways, but the players have surprisingly been given more than enough leeway and support this season imo.
And still the mentality out on the pitch is the same as six odd years ago.
I've always thought that booing is a strange thing to do under any circumstances, I've never done it and never will.
It's a bit of a catch 22 though, isn't it? The team string a few decent passes together and everyone does the bouncy bouncy. A few misplaced passes and it's boo time for the social retards that do it. The booing probably does affect the players negatively, the booing goes on and so the closed loop cycle of negativity begins.
Personally I voice my disapproval by not saying anything. As the saying goes if you ain't got anything good to say don't say it at all.
Comments
Disagree that the fans have been especially negative this season. That may change, but I think that the fans as a whole have been good. A bit quiet, but OK.
I don't think I will ever boo, at players, managers or the referee. It's all a bit ridiculous. If others want to do that, I can't stop them.
actually they're not as in fact they are grown men and not the bunch of sissys that you portray them to be.
I agree and maybe its down to people knowing there's been big change player wise and that some of the players are half decebt and need time to gel , just hope its double quick cos this shit we're being served up can't continue for much longer cos the apologists are running out of excuses and reasons for our complete and utter ponyness
I agree and maybe its down to people knowing there's been big change player wise and that some of the players are half decebt and need time to gel , just hope its double quick cos this shit we're being served up can't continue for much longer cos the apologists are running out of excuses and reasons for our complete and utter ponyness
Oggy, welcome back. All I can say is that you have been really lucky to have missed some of the worst dross I've seen CAFC play in 44 years . Truly, horrible and painful to watch. No quality, no spirit, no nothing - and getting WORSE every week.
The negativity is not coming from the fans,old chap. As WSS says, we have been astonishingly patient given the excruciating rubbish we are paying to watch at the moment. The negativity is coming from the pitch, where we seem to have a bunch of total strangers out there. And that includes Racon and Semedo, who despite playing together in midfield for four years, look like they've never met each other before.
Parky admitted that what we served up yesterday was ''unacceptable''. But there are still supporters telling us we should accept it because that's what fans are supposed to do.
Right now I think the players do not deserve the fans. It is most definitely NOT vice versa.
And if you had seen the last three home games v Notts County, D&R and MK Dons , even though we unjustifiably won two of them, you really, really would not be saying these things!
When you catch up at Plymouth net week, you will understand what weve been going through, old friend.
It is obviously not entirely the fault of the fans but in a game where confidence plays a big part the fans can certainly help by being supportive rather than negative.
Ask yourself what motivates YOU to do better. If you can honestly answer booing and abuse then carry on but otherwise think on....
IT IS NOT THE FANS FAULT, IT IS NOT THE LINO'S FAULT, IT IS NOT THE REFS FAULT,
Look no further than those paid to do a job that they are either unable to do due to capability or being sent out to perform in a mannor to which they are unacustomed.
turn up watch the shite for yourselves.
IT IS NOT THE FANS FAULT, IT IS NOT THE LINO'S FAULT, IT IS NOT THE REFS FAULT,
Look no further than those paid to do a job that they are either unable to do due to capability or being sent out to perform in a mannor to which they are unacustomed.
turn up watch the shite for yourselves.[/quote]
Spot on
The argument is completely ignoring facts. At Millwall both home and at the humiliation away the players got nothing but roaring support and it still didnt fire the players up.
Dagenham the other week they were cheered on etc and still got embarrassed. Ive never heard any boos at any away games ive been to in recent years and this season the home ones have generally been in the minority.
These players are paid well to do something we would love to do for free and we care about the club more than they or parkinson will ever do and want the club to do well and will be here long after they are picking up their next pay cheques and left with what their performances have cost us....ie battling it out in the thrid division or worse.
We give them the support and are quite restrained on the whole in showing our displeasure when a player cant take a throw in properly or pass to a team mate ....the players and manager need to meet us haalfway with their performances and people really need to stop making excuses for their every failing.
Improve the support by putting the players in the North Upper and improve the team by selecting from the season ticket holders.
I am too old, over 6ft 2, have no pace, poor control and little tactical awareness so I will replace Benson.
Any other volunteers?
For instance, look at Liverpool. They are struggling for the reasons stated - you'd hardly say they lack for vocal support and encouragement would you?
Yes, well said Redsek. Berating the fans is as much of a knee-jerk on the part of some people, as those who demand Parky should be sacked every time we suffer a reverse.
Charlton fans have been long-suffering in recent years and most of us have shown a patience that certain managers and players have done nothing to earn.
I've spent my entire life trying hard to be a decent sort of 'hail fellow, well met' kind of honest and straightforward chap - and it's got me nowhere. So can I be the new Parky?
You can't put it down to the players not knowing each other because the team keeps changing, because it isn't. The team is the same no matter the result because we haven't got the numbers to be able to do that.
You can't put it down to the the players still thinking that we are a Premiership club and think they can just turn up, because none of those players are here any more.
You can't put it down to bad eggs in the group (Moo2, etc) because they aren't there any more.
You have to put it down the management before kick off and as soon as it kicks-off the players are responsible for the results. They are the ones paid to put in the effort, score goals, create goals, defend, tackle, etc. If the team on the pitch is not doing it, the management have to make alterations to the tactics and personnel to make it work.
Parkinson has brought in the players he wants. Apart from Llera and Francis, i think he has bought some very good players for this level. We have seen glimpses that they can do it. Against Dagenham we ran the pitch in the first half, we just couldn't finish them off. Leyton Orient we played brilliantly in the second half and destroyed them. The team and management know they can do it, but they don't seem to be able to keep it up for the full 90 minutes and if things aren't going well they don't know how to change a game.
Management and players have to take responsibility for performances. I don't condone booing and do find it counter-productive, but i honestly don't believe the fans have been pressuring the players or manager so far. But the worrying thing is if they don't start performing the boo boys will be out.
Like I said last week....I dont know you Pal, and I was prepared to give you the benefit of the doubt after your keyoard warrior antics last week....but cut out the crap....I know Rob (Oggy) I've met him quite a few times, and Id consider him a Charlton mate...he wears a pair of huge rose tinted specs to the Valley as a joke...ok....now lay off the sniping and grow up.
Good post.
beat me to it, off it we all know oggy will always find a bright side, but at the moment there is no bright side.
And still the mentality out on the pitch is the same as six odd years ago.
Far too patient imo.
It's a bit of a catch 22 though, isn't it? The team string a few decent passes together and everyone does the bouncy bouncy. A few misplaced passes and it's boo time for the social retards that do it. The booing probably does affect the players negatively, the booing goes on and so the closed loop cycle of negativity begins.
Personally I voice my disapproval by not saying anything. As the saying goes if you ain't got anything good to say don't say it at all.
I agree with WSS, our fans have been very patient this season.