Fully expect us to win as I cannot go due to work, in fact I cannot go to another Charlton match until 25th September as every single game clashes with a work commitment.
when I did Jury Service one of the guys I was with was Ben Chorley's Uncle, really nice guy.....said we'd been looking at him for a couple of years and were about to sign him just before the takeover mess...
Ben Chorley is a cracking defender, but will make one **** up per game. His CB partner is one Terrell Forbes, nicknamed Terrible. Nuff said, although he's done okay in his two games so far. We didn't replace Mkandawire who went to scummy Millwall, sad times.
You are desperate to not give Parky any credit for anything good aren't you.
You are totally and completely wrong on how the transfer market works.
Parky knew about Martin many months ago. Martin himself said that he had spoken to Tim Breaker as long ago as May. Now you will say it was all Breaker's work and not Parky's but you're wrong. He knew about Martin but had to wait for Ipswich to release him. He knew about Abbott but had to wait for Murray to give him some money to spend in the transfer market.
You don't like parky, I can see, but give him credit for what he does do well rather than pretending that Murray signs the players and that two players being picked to play by Parky is some sort of accident.
i remember being on holiday in torquay when we lost to orient on tv last season. i was having a few days away with the misses and i happened to be walking through the town centre in the evening and saw that the match was on the telly. i made some excuse that i needed the loo to have a quick look at the match. when i saw we were losing it spoilt my evening and i didnt enjoy the meal out we had afterwards. common you reds lets put some demons to bed and win tomorrow. 6 straight wins at the beginning of last season, lets go one better!! Parky is our leader so lets follow him.
You are desperate to not give Parky any credit for anything good aren't you.
You are totally and completely wrong on how the transfer market works.
Parky knew about Martin many months ago. Martin himself said that he had spoken to Tim Breaker as long ago as May. Now you will say it was all Breaker's work and not Parky's but you're wrong. He knew about Martin but had to wait for Ipswich to release him. He knew about Abbott but had to wait for Murray to give him some money to spend in the transfer market.
You don't like parky, I can see, but give him credit for what he does do well rather than pretending that Murray signs the players and that two players being picked to play by Parky is some sort of accident.
I make me 100% right about the way the transfer market works at this level.
I am sure that Martin and his agent have been talking to a number of clubs since May. Charlton, along with every other club in this league have been approached by dozens of agents representing players who are available on a free or a loan. I am sure we have made other offers and are still waiting for those players and agents to accept or reject those offers as they review the offers they get from other clubs.
I have never said that Murray signs the players. I am sure that it is Parky who makes the decision about which of the players whose agents have approached Charlton he should pursue.
Actually, I am desperate to give Parky some credit. But you are right. At the moment he can do no right in my eyes. Getting us relegated, failing to get us back up with one of the strongest squads in the league, his frequent use of the very old fashioned long ball tactic of chipping the ball up to a holding frontman (I don’t remember seeing any team deploy that tactic in the World Cup), and his utterly clueless performance against Millwall at the Den, all mean he is a lost cause for me. But I hope I am proved wrong.
In this league, unlike in the premiership and to some extent the Championship, all the squads are pretty much of the same quality. There will be two or three clubs who will be paying substantial fees for players and paying higher salaries (we were one of those clubs last season) but on the whole all the squads are evenly matched (in my opinion). Success for the clubs who can’t afford the better players will be down to the quality of the coaching and fitness training during the week, the team spirit that is engendered by the manager and the coaching staff, the tactics deployed during the matches and effective use of substitutions.
I know a lot of people have dismissed Jonjo’s comments about the quality of Parky’s training regime last season but for me those comments confirmed what I saw on the pitch. On Tuesday we lost a 3 goal lead to a team a division below us. I know we did not start with our first choice 11 and some of the goals were down to individual errors but for me the manager and coaching staff have to take a lot of responsibility for that.
I know you always like to have the last word so I won’t respond anymore on this thread. But, when I see evidence of a team that is being trained and coached to a high standard and playing modern passing football I will make a point of giving Parky credit and will reference this thread in doing so.
Ladies and Gentleman, the club have today embarrassed us further by bringing in the worst goal celebration music ever. The PLAYERS have chosen it themselves which is even worse, and they have a silly dance to go with it. It will be premièred tomorrow night if we score, not just in front of bemused opposition fans but tens of thousands of telly viewers. Never have I not wanted us to score on the telly! Do you guys do goal music, it's a horrific invention. Daggers introduced it last season but their fans revolted and it got scrapped, but I fear that if WE do that, it could be a players vs fans battle ;)
[cite]Posted By: Red_in_SE8[/cite]I know a lot of people have dismissed Jonjo’s comments about the quality of Parky’s training regime last season but for me those comments confirmed what I saw on the pitch. On Tuesday we lost a 3 goal lead to a team a division below us. I know we did not start with our first choice 11 and some of the goals were down to individual errors but for me the manager and coaching staff have to take a lot of responsibility for that.
The young players need experience of playing games, they will make mistakes along the way. Mambo and Worner haven't played above the Blue Square Prem. Solly has a handful of games in League One. Stavrinou has only played Blue Square Prem football. So while they are all decent prospects they're arguably up against better and obviously far more experienced League Two players.
They will mainly learn through playing games. Too simple IMO to say good coaching would have stopped those errors from happening. All young players at every level make mistakes regardless of how good the coaching is.
Stavrinou and Mambo probably wouldn't be regulars in the Shrewsbury team at this stage of their careers. Solly and Wagstaff are a bit older and further on but still not proven as regular starting players at League One level. So it's no surprise they make a few mistakes against a League Two side.
The one time we really don't need any help getting an atmosphere going is directly after a goal.
We sometimes could do with a boost the rest of the time though
;-)
You are desperate to not give Parky any credit for anything good aren't you.
You are totally and completely wrong on how the transfer market works.
Parky knew about Martin many months ago. Martin himself said that he had spoken to Tim Breaker as long ago as May. Now you will say it was all Breaker's work and not Parky's but you're wrong. He knew about Martin but had to wait for Ipswich to release him. He knew about Abbott but had to wait for Murray to give him some money to spend in the transfer market.
You don't like parky, I can see, but give him credit for what he does do well rather than pretending that Murray signs the players and that two players being picked to play by Parky is some sort of accident.
I make me 100% right about the way the transfer market works at this level.
I am sure that Martin and his agent have been talking to a number of clubs since May. Charlton, along with every other club in this league have been approached by dozens of agents representing players who are available on a free or a loan. I am sure we have made other offers and are still waiting for those players and agents to accept or reject those offers as they review the offers they get from other clubs.
I have never said that Murray signs the players. I am sure that it is Parky who makes the decision about which of the players whose agents have approached Charlton he should pursue.
Actually, I am desperate to give Parky some credit. But you are right. At the moment he can do no right in my eyes. Getting us relegated, failing to get us back up with one of the strongest squads in the league, his frequent use of the very old fashioned long ball tactic of chipping the ball up to a holding frontman (I don’t remember seeing any team deploy that tactic in the World Cup), and his utterly clueless performance against Millwall at the Den, all mean he is a lost cause for me. But I hope I am proved wrong.
In this league, unlike in the premiership and to some extent the Championship, all the squads are pretty much of the same quality. There will be two or three clubs who will be paying substantial fees for players and paying higher salaries (we were one of those clubs last season) but on the whole all the squads are evenly matched (in my opinion). Success for the clubs who can’t afford the better players will be down to the quality of the coaching and fitness training during the week, the team spirit that is engendered by the manager and the coaching staff, the tactics deployed during the matches and effective use of substitutions.
I know a lot of people have dismissed Jonjo’s comments about the quality of Parky’s training regime last season but for me those comments confirmed what I saw on the pitch. On Tuesday we lost a 3 goal lead to a team a division below us. I know we did not start with our first choice 11 and some of the goals were down to individual errors but for me the manager and coaching staff have to take a lot of responsibility for that.
I know you always like to have the last word so I won’t respond anymore on this thread. But, when I see evidence of a team that is being trained and coached to a high standard and playing modern passing football I will make a point of giving Parky credit and will reference this thread in doing so.
Hes gonna prove you mate... if we can add to the squad and if not we will stumble into the playoffs...
You did post before that you thought the Chairman signed the players with little input from the Manager. See your post below. What you wrote is total rubbish and no way based on anything other than your cognitive dissonance ie the two, to you, conflicting facts that Parky is a bad manager and Parky has signed good players. Therefore to reconcile this dissonance you have created the fiction below that Parky, and no other manager it seems, picks their own players.
Parky has many failings and has made many mistakes but give him credit when it is due or it undermines all the rest of your arguments.
"As someone who is firmly in the ‘yet to be convinced by Parky’ camp, I don’t understand all the plaudits he is suddenly getting on here because we have signed a few decent players.
I have never worked inside a football club at this level but based on reading newspapers, bits of manager and player biographies, and watching the TV, my understanding of the squad building activities during the summer for a club like Charlton is as follows.
1. At this time of year, every year, thousands of players are out of contract. The agents of these players are either negotiating new contracts with their existing clubs or using their network of contacts within other football clubs to win contracts for their clients. I would suggest that this network of contacts rarely includes the manager. These are contacts that have been built up over a number of years, long before the incumbent manager.
2. Meanwhile, every club below midway in the Championship, have to calculate the budget for player wages for the following season. This often means not being able to renew contracts of high paid players and cashing in on any players that have a value in the transfer market. I would say, and quite rightly in my opinion for clubs in Charlton’s position, the manager has little say in these decisions.
3. So, from the end of the season until the end of August, league Chairmen and CEO’s are inundated with calls and texts and e.mails from scores of agents each representing 30 or 40 out of contract players. The manager would specify to the Chairman the positions he needs to fill to build a squad for the new season. The Chairmen/CEO would sort through all the approaches received from agents and produce a list of players for each of the positions that the manager has specified. The Chairman/CEO would then sit down with the manager and ask the manager which of the players he would like the board to approach.
4. The Chairman/CEO might discuss with the manager the maximum proportion of the total wage budget each player is worth.
5. The Chairman/CEO would then approach the relevant agent and start negotiations. Simultaneously this agent is probably in talks with several other clubs who have expressed an interest in this player.
It is my view that Parky has some involvement in the building of the new squad but not nearly enough to be given so much credit for it.
The time to judge him is after the first few games of the season. Then we can see how effectively he has coached and trained the new squad to play match winning football."
I'd like to see Martin play just behind abbot up top. Even he said that's his best position but then that would mean dropping akpo which is a bit harsh after his performance against Bournemouth.
@geraints gut ... no we don't have music after we score (yet) as you say it is embarassing and hopefully we wont have to sample your teams attempts at it tonight!
[cite]Posted By: O-Randy-Hunt[/cite]I'd like to see Martin play just behind abbot up top. Even he said that's his best position but then that would mean dropping akpo which is a bit harsh after his performance against Bournemouth.
Wow, isn't it great that there's a mini-debate going on about which striker we should drop as they're all scoring goals!
[cite]Posted By: oohaahmortimer[/cite]
no tickets have rows and seat numbers .... boooooooooooooooooo....sidddarn .... fark off .... sing up ..... we're wank......your grounds too small for us........is that all you get at home..........
You did post before that you thought the Chairman signed the players with little input from the Manager. See your post below. What you wrote is total rubbish and no way based on anything other than your cognitive dissonance ie the two, to you, conflicting facts that Parky is a bad manager and Parky has signed good players. Therefore to reconcile this dissonance you have created the fiction below that Parky, and no other manager it seems, picks their own players.
Parky has many failings and has made many mistakes but give him credit when it is due or it undermines all the rest of your arguments.[/i]
Posted By: Red_in_se8[/cite]
"As someone who is firmly in the ‘yet to be convinced by Parky’ camp, I don’t understand all the plaudits he is suddenly getting on here because we have signed a few decent players.
I have never worked inside a football club at this level but based on reading newspapers, bits of manager and player biographies, and watching the TV, my understanding of the squad building activities during the summer for a club like Charlton is as follows.
1. At this time of year, every year, thousands of players are out of contract. The agents of these players are either negotiating new contracts with their existing clubs or using their network of contacts within other football clubs to win contracts for their clients.I would suggest that this network of contacts rarely includes the manager.These are contacts that have been built up over a number of years, long before the incumbent manager.
2. Meanwhile, every club below midway in the Championship, have to calculate the budget for player wages for the following season. This often means not being able to renew contracts of high paid players and cashing in on any players that have a value in the transfer market. I would say, and quite rightly in my opinion for clubs in Charlton’s position, the manager has little say in these decisions.
3. So, from the end of the season until the end of August, league Chairmen and CEO’s are inundated with calls and texts and e.mails from scores of agents each representing 30 or 40 out of contract players.The manager would specify to the Chairman the positions he needs to fill to build a squad for the new season. The Chairmen/CEO would sort through all the approaches received from agents and produce a list of players for each of the positions that the manager has specified. The Chairman/CEO would then sit down with the manager and ask the manager which of the players he would like the board to approach.
4. The Chairman/CEO might discuss with the manager the maximum proportion of the total wage budget each player is worth.
5. The Chairman/CEO would then approach the relevant agent and start negotiations. Simultaneously this agent is probably in talks with several other clubs who have expressed an interest in this player.
It is my view that Parky has some involvement in the building of the new squad but not nearly enough to be given so much credit for it.
The time to judge him is after the first few games of the season. Then we can see how effectively he has coached and trained the new squad to play match winning football."
I know I said I would not respond but I am a bit confused. At no point have I ever suggested, in the above post or in any other thread, that Parky does not have the final say on which players he actually signs. [/i]
I am not suffering from any 'cognitive dissonance' as you put it because I don't think that my opinion that Parky is a poor manager is a 'fact' ( he may, I hope, go on to prove me wrong) and I have no opinion yet about how good his recent signings are (apart from Reid and Docherty).
He doesn't have the final say, he has the say, he produces the list of players he wants not the Chairman. That is laughable.
He decides which players we want to sign as long as they are available and are within the budget set by the Board (the one part of what you said that is correct.)
you said
Posted By: Red_in_SE8I don't think he had any idea that those two (Abbott and Martin) would become available on loan or a cheap fee until he, along with a number of other managers in the Championship and League 1, were approached by the agents of those players. Again, I don’t know for certain, but it is my perception of how the transfer market works at this level, based on what I read in the press.
Again you are wrong. Martin himself has said that he spoke to Breaker in May. Breaker was Asst manager at Plymouth with TB so was aware of him without the need for an agent to tell him. My guess is that PP would have spoken about players and Breaker would have recommended Martin. Ditto Jackson, Fry and Reid who played for us last season. Why did PP need to wait for an agent to recommend them. What he needed to wait for was their clubs to release them.
As I said on another thread I was speaking to an ex-playing colleague of Paul Benson's. He told me Parky had watched that player 5 or 6 times, to his knowledge, last season. How does that fit with your theory of Murray drawing up a list given to him by agents over the summer?
PP watches four or five games a week as do the other coaches. That's how they know which players they want to sign, not lists from Richard Murray or phone calls from agents.
Comments
Win for Charlton, no problem.
You are desperate to not give Parky any credit for anything good aren't you.
You are totally and completely wrong on how the transfer market works.
Parky knew about Martin many months ago. Martin himself said that he had spoken to Tim Breaker as long ago as May. Now you will say it was all Breaker's work and not Parky's but you're wrong. He knew about Martin but had to wait for Ipswich to release him. He knew about Abbott but had to wait for Murray to give him some money to spend in the transfer market.
You don't like parky, I can see, but give him credit for what he does do well rather than pretending that Murray signs the players and that two players being picked to play by Parky is some sort of accident.
We were all having a couple of hours watching the misses (!) ........ couldn't hit a barn door that night.
I make me 100% right about the way the transfer market works at this level.
I am sure that Martin and his agent have been talking to a number of clubs since May. Charlton, along with every other club in this league have been approached by dozens of agents representing players who are available on a free or a loan. I am sure we have made other offers and are still waiting for those players and agents to accept or reject those offers as they review the offers they get from other clubs.
I have never said that Murray signs the players. I am sure that it is Parky who makes the decision about which of the players whose agents have approached Charlton he should pursue.
Actually, I am desperate to give Parky some credit. But you are right. At the moment he can do no right in my eyes. Getting us relegated, failing to get us back up with one of the strongest squads in the league, his frequent use of the very old fashioned long ball tactic of chipping the ball up to a holding frontman (I don’t remember seeing any team deploy that tactic in the World Cup), and his utterly clueless performance against Millwall at the Den, all mean he is a lost cause for me. But I hope I am proved wrong.
In this league, unlike in the premiership and to some extent the Championship, all the squads are pretty much of the same quality. There will be two or three clubs who will be paying substantial fees for players and paying higher salaries (we were one of those clubs last season) but on the whole all the squads are evenly matched (in my opinion). Success for the clubs who can’t afford the better players will be down to the quality of the coaching and fitness training during the week, the team spirit that is engendered by the manager and the coaching staff, the tactics deployed during the matches and effective use of substitutions.
I know a lot of people have dismissed Jonjo’s comments about the quality of Parky’s training regime last season but for me those comments confirmed what I saw on the pitch. On Tuesday we lost a 3 goal lead to a team a division below us. I know we did not start with our first choice 11 and some of the goals were down to individual errors but for me the manager and coaching staff have to take a lot of responsibility for that.
I know you always like to have the last word so I won’t respond anymore on this thread. But, when I see evidence of a team that is being trained and coached to a high standard and playing modern passing football I will make a point of giving Parky credit and will reference this thread in doing so.
http://www.leytonorient.com/page/NewsDetail/0,,10439~2120510,00.html
Friday is pay back time...
They will mainly learn through playing games. Too simple IMO to say good coaching would have stopped those errors from happening. All young players at every level make mistakes regardless of how good the coaching is.
Stavrinou and Mambo probably wouldn't be regulars in the Shrewsbury team at this stage of their careers. Solly and Wagstaff are a bit older and further on but still not proven as regular starting players at League One level. So it's no surprise they make a few mistakes against a League Two side.
We sometimes could do with a boost the rest of the time though
;-)
Hes gonna prove you mate... if we can add to the squad and if not we will stumble into the playoffs...
Solly Doherty Dailly Jackson
Martin McCormack Racon Reid
Sodje Abbott
4-1 charlton come on!!!
That's the team - with Waggy the impact sub we know he can be!
--------------------------Elliott------------------------
Solly -----------Doherty ---------Dailly -----------Fry
Martin------- McCormack ------Jackson------- Reid
----------------Sodje ------------Abbott------------
subs - Worner, Francis, Racon, Waggy, Llera, Smart, Stavrinou
although i think he'll probably stick with Jackson at LB
You did post before that you thought the Chairman signed the players with little input from the Manager. See your post below. What you wrote is total rubbish and no way based on anything other than your cognitive dissonance ie the two, to you, conflicting facts that Parky is a bad manager and Parky has signed good players. Therefore to reconcile this dissonance you have created the fiction below that Parky, and no other manager it seems, picks their own players.
Parky has many failings and has made many mistakes but give him credit when it is due or it undermines all the rest of your arguments.
"As someone who is firmly in the ‘yet to be convinced by Parky’ camp, I don’t understand all the plaudits he is suddenly getting on here because we have signed a few decent players.
I have never worked inside a football club at this level but based on reading newspapers, bits of manager and player biographies, and watching the TV, my understanding of the squad building activities during the summer for a club like Charlton is as follows.
1. At this time of year, every year, thousands of players are out of contract. The agents of these players are either negotiating new contracts with their existing clubs or using their network of contacts within other football clubs to win contracts for their clients. I would suggest that this network of contacts rarely includes the manager. These are contacts that have been built up over a number of years, long before the incumbent manager.
2. Meanwhile, every club below midway in the Championship, have to calculate the budget for player wages for the following season. This often means not being able to renew contracts of high paid players and cashing in on any players that have a value in the transfer market. I would say, and quite rightly in my opinion for clubs in Charlton’s position, the manager has little say in these decisions.
3. So, from the end of the season until the end of August, league Chairmen and CEO’s are inundated with calls and texts and e.mails from scores of agents each representing 30 or 40 out of contract players. The manager would specify to the Chairman the positions he needs to fill to build a squad for the new season. The Chairmen/CEO would sort through all the approaches received from agents and produce a list of players for each of the positions that the manager has specified. The Chairman/CEO would then sit down with the manager and ask the manager which of the players he would like the board to approach.
4. The Chairman/CEO might discuss with the manager the maximum proportion of the total wage budget each player is worth.
5. The Chairman/CEO would then approach the relevant agent and start negotiations. Simultaneously this agent is probably in talks with several other clubs who have expressed an interest in this player.
It is my view that Parky has some involvement in the building of the new squad but not nearly enough to be given so much credit for it.
The time to judge him is after the first few games of the season. Then we can see how effectively he has coached and trained the new squad to play match winning football."
Wow, isn't it great that there's a mini-debate going on about which striker we should drop as they're all scoring goals!
no tickets have rows and seat numbers .... boooooooooooooooooo....sidddarn .... fark off .... sing up ..... we're wank
I know I said I would not respond but I am a bit confused. At no point have I ever suggested, in the above post or in any other thread, that Parky does not have the final say on which players he actually signs. [/i]
I am not suffering from any 'cognitive dissonance' as you put it because I don't think that my opinion that Parky is a poor manager is a 'fact' ( he may, I hope, go on to prove me wrong) and I have no opinion yet about how good his recent signings are (apart from Reid and Docherty).
He decides which players we want to sign as long as they are available and are within the budget set by the Board (the one part of what you said that is correct.)
you said
Posted By: Red_in_SE8I don't think he had any idea that those two (Abbott and Martin) would become available on loan or a cheap fee until he, along with a number of other managers in the Championship and League 1, were approached by the agents of those players. Again, I don’t know for certain, but it is my perception of how the transfer market works at this level, based on what I read in the press.
Again you are wrong. Martin himself has said that he spoke to Breaker in May. Breaker was Asst manager at Plymouth with TB so was aware of him without the need for an agent to tell him. My guess is that PP would have spoken about players and Breaker would have recommended Martin. Ditto Jackson, Fry and Reid who played for us last season. Why did PP need to wait for an agent to recommend them. What he needed to wait for was their clubs to release them.
As I said on another thread I was speaking to an ex-playing colleague of Paul Benson's. He told me Parky had watched that player 5 or 6 times, to his knowledge, last season. How does that fit with your theory of Murray drawing up a list given to him by agents over the summer?
PP watches four or five games a week as do the other coaches. That's how they know which players they want to sign, not lists from Richard Murray or phone calls from agents.