forgive me if I don't get excited just yet. Perhaps we should release Solly if he isn't going to get a game. Actually why not shut down the Academy and save some money.
[cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite]forgive me if I don't get excited just yet. Perhaps we should release Solly if he isn't going to get a game. Actually why not shut down the Academy and save some money.
Large I really dont get your logic.
Are you saying that even if he's not good enough to be first choice yet we should play him anyway because he's from the academy? Or if he's only good enough to currently be 2nd choice we should release him and leave ourselves without backup? Either way doesnt sound very sensible.
lets be honest jonjo apart (don't know about the kid united nicked) the academy has produced players of limited ability for ages and when they have come in they have looked worse than the junk already in the team
[cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite]forgive me if I don't get excited just yet. Perhaps we should release Solly if he isn't going to get a game. Actually why not shut down the Academy and save some money.
Large I really dont get your logic.
Are you saying that even if he's not good enough to be first choice yet we should play him anyway because he's from the academy? Or if he's only good enough to currently be 2nd choice we should release him and leave ourselves without backup? Either way doesnt sound very sensible.
Solly is 20 not 16, we are in League 1 not the PL. Solly is good enough for League 1 and will only get better by playing and by learning whilst playing. We are stunting the progress of our youngsters who will eventually move on due to a lack of 1st team opportunities. Why ? Give them a go I say, they might surprise you. Basey, Solly, Stav and Waggy all good enough, all old enough. Play them. Francis will start ahead of Solly, Basey will go, Stav will go on loan leaving Waggy as the only one to see significant action. Even Marshall might replace Elliot. Oh well.
[cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite]forgive me if I don't get excited just yet. Perhaps we should release Solly if he isn't going to get a game. Actually why not shut down the Academy and save some money.
Large I really dont get your logic.
Are you saying that even if he's not good enough to be first choice yet we should play him anyway because he's from the academy? Or if he's only good enough to currently be 2nd choice we should release him and leave ourselves without backup? Either way doesnt sound very sensible.
Solly is 20 not 16, we are in League 1 not the PL. Solly is good enough for League 1 and will only get better by playing and by learning whilst playing. We are stunting the progress of our youngsters who will eventually move on due to a lack of 1st team opportunities. Why ? Give them a go I say, they might surprise you. Basey, Solly, Stav and Waggy all good enough, all old enough. Play them. Francis will start ahead of Solly, Basey will go, Stav will go on loan leaving Waggy as the only one to see significant action. Even Marshall might replace Elliot. Oh well.
Surely if there is an oppotunity to sign a player that is stronger than what you have already got in a certain position then that is a plus?
Good signing, Southend's player of the year last season.
Sorry Large, Solly may be 20 now, but he's still not ready IMHO. People have been saying this week that Mulley seems better than Solley. I still have high hopes for Solley, but would be a weak link if played regularly this season.
I would love the academy to produce the entire first 11......but more than that I want Charlton to be successful, gain promotion and be on the 'up' again. Parky has given the academy boys games and he's said good things about lots of them, including Solly, but if he thinks someone else, Simon Francis will make us a better team then thats what it is all about in my eyes.
Don't know anything about Francis other than what I've read on here but if he can indeed also play right mid sometimes, his signing doesn't necessarily have to hold back Solly & Waggy, but might just ease the burden for two kids simultaneously learning on the same wing for a whole season. Both appear much more ready for first team action than perhaps Stav or Tuna, but will still need time to develop, learn, and rest.
Look forward to confirmation if he's the RB Parky wanted.
[cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite]forgive me if I don't get excited just yet. Perhaps we should release Solly if he isn't going to get a game. Actually why not shut down the Academy and save some money.
Large I really dont get your logic.
Are you saying that even if he's not good enough to be first choice yet we should play him anyway because he's from the academy? Or if he's only good enough to currently be 2nd choice we should release him and leave ourselves without backup? Either way doesnt sound very sensible.
Solly is 20 not 16, we are in League 1 not the PL. Solly is good enough for League 1 and will only get better by playing and by learning whilst playing. We are stunting the progress of our youngsters who will eventually move on due to a lack of 1st team opportunities. Why ? Give them a go I say, they might surprise you. Basey, Solly, Stav and Waggy all good enough, all old enough. Play them. Francis will start ahead of Solly, Basey will go, Stav will go on loan leaving Waggy as the only one to see significant action. Even Marshall might replace Elliot. Oh well.
sorry Large, but I think the point here is that they are clearly NOT good enough, I'm all for giving youth a chance, but they have to be good enough to play, Solly, Basey and Stav are only at the moment ever going to be back up players, they are not good enough even at league 1 standard. Jury's still out a bit on Waggy as a permanent fixture, I suspect he won't be first choice this season but he's certainly further ahead of the others when it comes to playing in the first team
[quote][cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite][quote][cite]Posted By: blackheathaddick[/cite][quote][cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite]forgive me if I don't get excited just yet. Perhaps we should release Solly if he isn't going to get a game. Actually why not shut down the Academy and save some money.[/quote]
Large I really dont get your logic.
Are you saying that even if he's not good enough to be first choice yet we should play him anyway because he's from the academy? Or if he's only good enough to currently be 2nd choice we should release him and leave ourselves without backup? Either way doesnt sound very sensible.[/quote]
Solly is 20 not 16, we are in League 1 not the PL. Solly is good enough for League 1 and will only get better by playing and by learning whilst playing. We are stunting the progress of our youngsters who will eventually move on due to a lack of 1st team opportunities. Why ? Give them a go I say, they might surprise you. Basey, Solly, Stav and Waggy all good enough, all old enough. Play them. Francis will start ahead of Solly, Basey will go, Stav will go on loan leaving Waggy as the only one to see significant action. Even Marshall might replace Elliot. Oh well.[/quote]
I have no idea about Francis, apart from the fact that he played in a relegated team last season, but (and as much as I'd love you to be right) putting faith in the likes of Solly, Stavrinou, Basey (who we don't seem to be interested in re-signing anyway) and even Wagstaff is misplaced, I think.
It seems like the Academy blueprint is designed to produce decent footballers, but who would struggle to fight their way out of a wet paper bag. Mambo is the exception, and Basey had a bit of bulk, but the rest (and I include Lloyd Sam as the prime example) generally don't seem to be physically equipped to deal with League 1.
The modern day footballer has to be an athlete as well as being technically proficient, Our kids might need to spend a bit more time in the gym.
Remember we also have one recognised left back who is injured. Jackson looks like he can fill in, Basey's future is unknown. Solly can play there too. Who says he won't be back up to both full back positions?
As for Francis, excellent signing if true. Another key position ticked off the list.
Sorry but I don't think Solly is there yet, and given his age I don't know if he ever quite will be. I've seen him a number of times and I don't think at his current level he should offer anything more than a utility squad player. Believe me I want to love and overrate him a tiny bit, as I do any kid from the academy, they should all merit a touch more praise and understanding but I don't think he's there yet and we can't afford to waste half a season experimenting, we have to be selfish.
So Solly has played so much for us that folk are able to form the definitive opinion as to his worth? I know, lets never give the youngsters a chance huh? Out on a limb probably but I think Solly is a good player...but that opinion is based on as limited a view as 99% of others here.
I wrote a long post and it got lost in the ether but it's essense was why bother with the Academy if it isn't even producing players good enough for League 1. It costs over 1m a year to run and we need to see some benefit from it otherwise close it and spend that amount on transfer fees. I agree that Farncis is better than Solly but the only way Solly is going to improve is by playing and learning in the 1st team. If that isn't going to happen then scrap it as the investment involved isn't producing the players it should be which is surprising considering we are asking these players to play in League 1 and not the PL.
[quote][cite]Posted By: seth plum[/cite]So Solly has played so much for us that folk are able to form the definitive opinion as to his worth? I know, lets never give the youngsters a chance huh? Out on a limb probably but I think Solly is a good player...but that opinion is based on as limited a view as 99% of others here.[/quote]
I wrote a long post and it got lost in the ether but it's essense was why bother with the Academy if it isn't even producing players good enough for League 1. It costs over 1m a year to run and we need to see some benefit from it otherwise close it and spend that amount on transfer fees. I agree that Farncis is better than Solly but the only way Solly is going to improve is by playing and learning in the 1st team. If that isn't going to happen then scrap it as the investment involved isn't producing the players it should be which is surprising considering we are asking these players to play in League 1 and not the PL.[/quote]
Why view scrapping the Academy as the only alternative? The Academy just needs to re-consider the type of footballer it is trying to produce.
Jenkinson, Cousins and Gough might be more like what we need. We just need more who combine technique with athleticism ... it's about shifting the balance slightly.
[cite]Posted By: seth plum[/cite]So Solly has played so much for us that folk are able to form the definitive opinion as to his worth? I know, lets never give the youngsters a chance huh? Out on a limb probably but I think Solly is a good player...but that opinion is based on as limited a view as 99% of others here.
spot on Seth. Solly has hardly ever played in the first team at RB and people are judging him on two poor away performances where he played LB and on a couple of pre-season games, games in which triallists have been showered with praise when playing against the likes of Welling and Bedford and urged to be signed, but havn't been. For some reason people seem happier to play a player we have signed who must by definition be better than one of our youngsters.
We've got to face up to the fact that we are a league one club and a selling club. The academy is there to produce player's for our first team and also for profit (Shelvey, Parker, Konchesky, McGinty, Leaburn, Bowyer, Newton, Defoe plus more). This is why we have an academy because sometimes we do actually unearth a gem of a player n make profit for the football club. We should be proud of how we've produced players for national team and for the Premier league. Not a lot of clubs can say that in our position. COYR!
The academy has raised over £2m in transfer fees in just over a year, so it's kind of paid for itself in the last few years. Add to that Elliot, Randolph, Wagstaff and Basey all contributing last season (without mentioning others not as often involved) it has been worthwhile.
At the moment we can sign or already have better players, and that's surely the right thing to do if we want to challenge for promotion. It's "only League One" but it stills a big step up. Southampton tried playing the youngsters in he league above and got relegated. I don't think they are all League One regulars a couple of years later, not even for smallr clubs.
...I also have not seen enough to judge that Francis is better than Solly....how many on here can really say they have been able to do a decent comparison?
[cite]Posted By: seth plum[/cite]So Solly has played so much for us that folk are able to form the definitive opinion as to his worth? I know, lets never give the youngsters a chance huh? Out on a limb probably but I think Solly is a good player...but that opinion is based on as limited a view as 99% of others here.
Comments
Large I really dont get your logic.
Are you saying that even if he's not good enough to be first choice yet we should play him anyway because he's from the academy? Or if he's only good enough to currently be 2nd choice we should release him and leave ourselves without backup? Either way doesnt sound very sensible.
Solly is 20 not 16, we are in League 1 not the PL. Solly is good enough for League 1 and will only get better by playing and by learning whilst playing. We are stunting the progress of our youngsters who will eventually move on due to a lack of 1st team opportunities. Why ? Give them a go I say, they might surprise you. Basey, Solly, Stav and Waggy all good enough, all old enough. Play them. Francis will start ahead of Solly, Basey will go, Stav will go on loan leaving Waggy as the only one to see significant action. Even Marshall might replace Elliot. Oh well.
Surely if there is an oppotunity to sign a player that is stronger than what you have already got in a certain position then that is a plus?
Sorry Large, Solly may be 20 now, but he's still not ready IMHO. People have been saying this week that Mulley seems better than Solley. I still have high hopes for Solley, but would be a weak link if played regularly this season.
Hope it's confirmed soon.
Look forward to confirmation if he's the RB Parky wanted.
sorry Large, but I think the point here is that they are clearly NOT good enough, I'm all for giving youth a chance, but they have to be good enough to play, Solly, Basey and Stav are only at the moment ever going to be back up players, they are not good enough even at league 1 standard. Jury's still out a bit on Waggy as a permanent fixture, I suspect he won't be first choice this season but he's certainly further ahead of the others when it comes to playing in the first team
Large I really dont get your logic.
Are you saying that even if he's not good enough to be first choice yet we should play him anyway because he's from the academy? Or if he's only good enough to currently be 2nd choice we should release him and leave ourselves without backup? Either way doesnt sound very sensible.[/quote]
Solly is 20 not 16, we are in League 1 not the PL. Solly is good enough for League 1 and will only get better by playing and by learning whilst playing. We are stunting the progress of our youngsters who will eventually move on due to a lack of 1st team opportunities. Why ? Give them a go I say, they might surprise you. Basey, Solly, Stav and Waggy all good enough, all old enough. Play them. Francis will start ahead of Solly, Basey will go, Stav will go on loan leaving Waggy as the only one to see significant action. Even Marshall might replace Elliot. Oh well.[/quote]
I have no idea about Francis, apart from the fact that he played in a relegated team last season, but (and as much as I'd love you to be right) putting faith in the likes of Solly, Stavrinou, Basey (who we don't seem to be interested in re-signing anyway) and even Wagstaff is misplaced, I think.
It seems like the Academy blueprint is designed to produce decent footballers, but who would struggle to fight their way out of a wet paper bag. Mambo is the exception, and Basey had a bit of bulk, but the rest (and I include Lloyd Sam as the prime example) generally don't seem to be physically equipped to deal with League 1.
The modern day footballer has to be an athlete as well as being technically proficient, Our kids might need to spend a bit more time in the gym.
As for Francis, excellent signing if true. Another key position ticked off the list.
WSS, I agree.
thankyou !!
I wrote a long post and it got lost in the ether but it's essense was why bother with the Academy if it isn't even producing players good enough for League 1. It costs over 1m a year to run and we need to see some benefit from it otherwise close it and spend that amount on transfer fees. I agree that Farncis is better than Solly but the only way Solly is going to improve is by playing and learning in the 1st team. If that isn't going to happen then scrap it as the investment involved isn't producing the players it should be which is surprising considering we are asking these players to play in League 1 and not the PL.
Good player, yes.
But big enough? Strong enough? Quick enough?
thankyou !!
I wrote a long post and it got lost in the ether but it's essense was why bother with the Academy if it isn't even producing players good enough for League 1. It costs over 1m a year to run and we need to see some benefit from it otherwise close it and spend that amount on transfer fees. I agree that Farncis is better than Solly but the only way Solly is going to improve is by playing and learning in the 1st team. If that isn't going to happen then scrap it as the investment involved isn't producing the players it should be which is surprising considering we are asking these players to play in League 1 and not the PL.[/quote]
Why view scrapping the Academy as the only alternative? The Academy just needs to re-consider the type of footballer it is trying to produce.
Jenkinson, Cousins and Gough might be more like what we need. We just need more who combine technique with athleticism ... it's about shifting the balance slightly.
spot on Seth. Solly has hardly ever played in the first team at RB and people are judging him on two poor away performances where he played LB and on a couple of pre-season games, games in which triallists have been showered with praise when playing against the likes of Welling and Bedford and urged to be signed, but havn't been. For some reason people seem happier to play a player we have signed who must by definition be better than one of our youngsters.
At the moment we can sign or already have better players, and that's surely the right thing to do if we want to challenge for promotion. It's "only League One" but it stills a big step up. Southampton tried playing the youngsters in he league above and got relegated. I don't think they are all League One regulars a couple of years later, not even for smallr clubs.
I agree. He's looked a good player to me.