Why are people saying we should praise Parky if we get promotion, yet the same people are saying " you cant blame Parky if we dont". You cant have it both ways either he's responsible for this team or he isn't, you cant just have the praise but not the criticism. If he's not responsible for this team and the results then what the bloody hell is he doing picking up a pay check every month.
[cite]Posted By: uncle[/cite]If he's not responsible for this team and the results then what the bloody hell is he doing picking up a pay check every month.
maybe he's reverted to the role he had under pardew..... non-existant assistant who was not involved one way or another with our teams demise during the pardew era!
[cite]Posted By: nth london addick[/cite]Damien Matthews was my choice for manager for us this season, i honestly felt we had enough good youth and could get in enough experience to go alongside some of the older players from last year, to consolodate this season and then push on next
Although Parky has us in the playoffs i cant help but think he has failed to look at the bigger picture within the club and try to build on what wasa fanatstic youth team with great up and coming players, with the correct coaching and man mangement could have really saved us a few quid as well
There are some promising players, but from what I've seen and so often is the case, if they were good enough they'd have featured more.
Are we really not using them well enough though? Solly and Basey are our 2nd choice full backs on each side. We could have played Solly and not signed Richardson, but then who would be back up for him? Another youth player would mean we'd lack experience at times.
Randolph and Elliot are our two keepers.
Wagstaff is second choice on the right wing, and has played on the left. He's played quite a bit, even started games, but still hasn't convinced many that he should start every week.
Tuna is still some way off yet from what I've seen, as are Mambo and Stavrinou (and those two have both developed because of their time out on loan).
Perhaps we could have let Racon go and played Shelvey more.
I'm just struggling to see where we haven't used a youth player enough and could have saved money?
Southampton tried to do that last season, didn't work for them. It's a huge risk trying to just consolidate by throwing in 4/5 young players. Most have the talent in a few areas but lack in too many other areas, which is why they spend time on loan in lower divisions, and make appearances here and there for the first team. Throw them in too early and we've seen what can happened with Pardew and Wagstaff.
I just said get your C/V ready Chris Powell.... Why is it that the likes of Roy Keane, Gareth Southgate,Zola and others are so well 'qualified' to take over prem clubs , but we cannot get an ex player who has the ability to hold his own with the media, and respected in football like Chris, but want an 'experienced manager' , but with no budget, a heavy wage bill and facing a second season in the third tier! (If parky does not get us promoted.)
Of course I would want an experienced manager, a nice transfer budget, and clear the decks of unwanated players, but apparently it is not as simple as that!..... I am informed by Messrs Varney and Peacock!
If money is no object there is alway's Mark Hughes..... but I think he might be a bit rich for the likes of this board!...... in both senses!
[cite]Posted By: uncle[/cite]Why are people saying we should praise Parky if we get promotion, yet the same people are saying " you cant blame Parky if we dont". You cant have it both ways either he's responsible for this team or he isn't, you cant just have the praise but not the criticism. If he's not responsible for this team and the results then what the bloody hell is he doing picking up a pay check every month.
If you mean me, I'm just trying to say he does deserve credit if we are promoted. Some people have said even if we are promoted, it won't be anything to do with him.
If we aren't promoted, it just won't be a simple decision to sack him. There might not be a more proven and affordable replacement out there, that we know is likely to do a better job.
[cite]Posted By: uncle[/cite]Why are people saying we should praise Parky if we get promotion, yet the same people are saying " you cant blame Parky if we dont". You cant have it both ways either he's responsible for this team or he isn't, you cant just have the praise but not the criticism. If he's not responsible for this team and the results then what the bloody hell is he doing picking up a pay check every month.
If you mean me, I'm just trying to say he does deserve credit if we are promoted. Some people have said even if we are promoted, it won't be anything to do with him.
If we aren't promoted, it just won't be a simple decision to sack him. There might not be a more proven and affordable replacement out there, that we know is likely to do a better job.
Actually mate no i wasn't meaning you it was aimed at many. Yes i agree if he gets promotion it will be partly down to him, also partly down to the players. If it goes wrong the managers and players are to blame and should take the citicism. My feeling is though thats its more to do with the management than the players. Yes they can under perform but thats when he's got to have the balls to bring them off and drop them if they aint performing. Something sadly Parky has been reluctant to do this season
An outside bet for next manager- Paul Trollope. Young and upcoming manager and has done well with Bristol Rovers. Got them out of League 2 and consolodated them as a good solid league 1 side. Also managed to cope with the loss of Ricky Lambert, the could have been in the play offs themselevs had he stayed. Also he has realised Dickson is pony! Trollope as manager with Lennie coming back to do the role he does at Bristol (is is director of football?). Dream Team!
I am no big fan of Parky's but I do admire the fact that he has been given this valuable commodity, which is probably a luxury that wouldn't have been afforded to him by many other clubs going through the same scenario we have been through these last 18 months.
Fact is in recent Sky years, the pressure to succeed is immense & managers are simply not given enough time to execute whatever plans they may come to the job with. In teh olden days it seems managers would get 4 seasons minimum to try & work things out - just do a wiki search on any club's managerial history, including ours, to confirm this.
Managers nowadays find themselves given as little as 10 games to prove themselves, which is ridiculous.
Cloughie wasn't afforded the luxury of time at Leeds, if you look at his time there he could be classed as a failure. Yet given time at Derby & Forest he proved he was one of the all time managerial greats.
Agree time is vital, there are impact managers who can work wonders in half a season and then live off that- Dowie is one of many examples. But the best managers are those who have success over a substained period. We have heard about lower divsion sides with 5 year plans etc but the reality is that in those years, they are not going to keep faith with the same manager and give him time to succeed.
It took Alex Ferguson long enough to get success to United, in todays game he would have been long gone by the time they won their first title.
Then again there are examples of managers staying at clubs too long and becoming a little stale- Peter Reid at Sunderland, Gary Johnson at Bristol etc
I find this thread rather annoying. A number of people have taken the opportunity to pop at Large for the heinous crime of being right. Some of the out of context examples used to make points, are laughable. For example, Owen Coyle who took over a relegation bound team and has kept them up with 3 games to spare, while the team he left are doomed despite him having left them with a decent cushion.
I found a thread the other day, about Bryan Gunn, that I'll bump that illustrates the point.
[cite]Posted By: Large[/cite]However, by doing it this early they have at least I suppose given themselves a chance of still getting it right. By the time we realise the same it will be too late and another season will be floating off down the swannee.
Fast forward until the end of the season and we've limped to the edge of the playoffs, while Norwich marched to promotion and the title despite giving the likes of us and Leeds a healthy start.
Large has also said he thought the difference between the playoffs and automatic promotion has been a 20+ a season striker. I agree with that, it's the one thing we don't have that every other top 6 club has. Norwich could spend £400k on Holt, something we could only dream of unfortunately.
[cite]Posted By: Scoham[/cite]Large has also said he thought the difference between the playoffs and automatic promotion has been a 20+ a season striker. I agree with that, it's the one thing we don't have that every other top 6 club has. Norwich could spend £400k on Holt, something we could only dream of unfortunately.
maybe that would have been different if Shelvey had joined Chelsea, maybe some, not much but some, money may have been available. Instead we ended up with no striker AND Shelvey being vastly under-utilised. However, we could always have signed Charlie Austin for nought.
True but he turned them down. No one to blame for that. Should have played him more but that wouldn't have solved the striker problem.
Unfortunately we didn't find Charlie Austin. Can't blame the club for that, he was playing in a local league around Swindon wasn't he? There must be hundreds of strikers in non league that might be worth a gamble. It's not easy picking them out as we've seen with Dickson.
Comments
maybe he's reverted to the role he had under pardew..... non-existant assistant who was not involved one way or another with our teams demise during the pardew era!
Are we really not using them well enough though? Solly and Basey are our 2nd choice full backs on each side. We could have played Solly and not signed Richardson, but then who would be back up for him? Another youth player would mean we'd lack experience at times.
Randolph and Elliot are our two keepers.
Wagstaff is second choice on the right wing, and has played on the left. He's played quite a bit, even started games, but still hasn't convinced many that he should start every week.
Tuna is still some way off yet from what I've seen, as are Mambo and Stavrinou (and those two have both developed because of their time out on loan).
Perhaps we could have let Racon go and played Shelvey more.
I'm just struggling to see where we haven't used a youth player enough and could have saved money?
Southampton tried to do that last season, didn't work for them. It's a huge risk trying to just consolidate by throwing in 4/5 young players. Most have the talent in a few areas but lack in too many other areas, which is why they spend time on loan in lower divisions, and make appearances here and there for the first team. Throw them in too early and we've seen what can happened with Pardew and Wagstaff.
Why is it that the likes of Roy Keane, Gareth Southgate,Zola and others are so well 'qualified' to take over prem clubs , but we cannot get an ex player who has the ability to hold his own with the media, and respected in football like Chris, but want an 'experienced manager' , but with no budget, a heavy wage bill and facing a second season in the third tier! (If parky does not get us promoted.)
Of course I would want an experienced manager, a nice transfer budget, and clear the decks of unwanated players, but apparently it is not as simple as that!..... I am informed by Messrs Varney and Peacock!
If money is no object there is alway's Mark Hughes..... but I think he might be a bit rich for the likes of this board!...... in both senses!
If we aren't promoted, it just won't be a simple decision to sack him. There might not be a more proven and affordable replacement out there, that we know is likely to do a better job.
I think he's available too. . . .
But as I keep saying you never know in this division and nothing would shock me less than seeing Parky winning at Wembley. . .
Maybe a Jonjo last hurrah?
Actually mate no i wasn't meaning you it was aimed at many. Yes i agree if he gets promotion it will be partly down to him, also partly down to the players. If it goes wrong the managers and players are to blame and should take the citicism. My feeling is though thats its more to do with the management than the players. Yes they can under perform but thats when he's got to have the balls to bring them off and drop them if they aint performing. Something sadly Parky has been reluctant to do this season
I am no big fan of Parky's but I do admire the fact that he has been given this valuable commodity, which is probably a luxury that wouldn't have been afforded to him by many other clubs going through the same scenario we have been through these last 18 months.
Fact is in recent Sky years, the pressure to succeed is immense & managers are simply not given enough time to execute whatever plans they may come to the job with. In teh olden days it seems managers would get 4 seasons minimum to try & work things out - just do a wiki search on any club's managerial history, including ours, to confirm this.
Managers nowadays find themselves given as little as 10 games to prove themselves, which is ridiculous.
Cloughie wasn't afforded the luxury of time at Leeds, if you look at his time there he could be classed as a failure. Yet given time at Derby & Forest he proved he was one of the all time managerial greats.
It took Alex Ferguson long enough to get success to United, in todays game he would have been long gone by the time they won their first title.
Then again there are examples of managers staying at clubs too long and becoming a little stale- Peter Reid at Sunderland, Gary Johnson at Bristol etc
I found a thread the other day, about Bryan Gunn, that I'll bump that illustrates the point.
Gunn Fired Thread
Fast forward until the end of the season and we've limped to the edge of the playoffs, while Norwich marched to promotion and the title despite giving the likes of us and Leeds a healthy start.
maybe that would have been different if Shelvey had joined Chelsea, maybe some, not much but some, money may have been available. Instead we ended up with no striker AND Shelvey being vastly under-utilised. However, we could always have signed Charlie Austin for nought.
Unfortunately we didn't find Charlie Austin. Can't blame the club for that, he was playing in a local league around Swindon wasn't he? There must be hundreds of strikers in non league that might be worth a gamble. It's not easy picking them out as we've seen with Dickson.