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Immigration - not trying to start a fight!

I'll probably get sunk for this but here goes anyway.

My Mum has just spent a week in St Thomas', rushed in on an emergency nearly died, high dependency etc but home and doing a little better now.

She received fantastic care from a staff team with a broader ethnic background than the United Nations, whilst in A and E, all the other people waiting to be seen and the majority on Mum's ward also came from a BME background

The health service would collapse without immigrant staff and apparently the pressures of immigration will cause the collapse of the health service in 20 years.

Really interested in what people's take on this issue is (hopefully without the usual ranting)
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Comments

  • Nice to hear the other side of the story.

    There was a good programme on recently where they got people who were moaning about not being able to get jobs because of immigrants and gave them the jobs that immigrants were doing. With predictable results.

    Not sure about how to handle the over-subscription of the service, but maybe some kind of a two tier system where if you have a number of years as a tax payer you get a better service, might help. But no politician in their right mind would ever bring that in...
  • More importantly than anyones thoughts on immigration, I'm glad to hear your mum's on the mend and receiving the best care she can regardless of who gives it.
  • Thank you Bournemouth, you know she's getting better when she starts bloody nagging again.

    She's not doing bad for someone who was given 6 months to live 12 years ago!
  • edited March 2010
    I'm not sure how true it is that the pressures of immigration will cause the collapse of the health service. No government would ever allow that to happen and there's a bajillion ways to stop it from happening that don't include excluding anyone. And let's not forget more people = more tax = more money for the NHS.
  • I believe the best way to help the NHS is to get the rich to stop using it. Controversially I believe the best way to do this is to lower the standard in wealthier areas, making the luxury of private help care a more appealing prospect, similar to the methods they use to get people to fly business class.

    This country needed mass immigration after the war, currently we're going through completely different problems.
  • edited March 2010
    The issue in my eyes is not immigration per se, we have always had immigration, but how many immigrants are allowed in and how those immigrants are selected and by whom.

    As things stand thanks to the EU, specifically the Single European Act of 1986 signed by Margaret Thatcher, the elected UK Government has no powers to prevent immigration from 26 other EU countries. In other words the elected UK Government has no control over the number of immigrants entering the country. In theory the entire population of another EU country could decide to come to the UK and as "good Europeans" there is sweet fa the Government could do about it. It is only fair to point out that UK nationals have a similar right to movement within the EU but statistically a lot more come in than go out.

    If the UK left the EU it could pick and choose the immigrants it accepts, as the USA and Australia do, thus enabling services such as the NHS which rely heavily on immigrant labour to function effectively as quality professionals could be recruited.

    You did ask!!



    I
  • [cite]Posted By: Chunes[/cite]I'm not sure how true it is that the pressures of immigration will cause the collapse of the health service. No government would ever allow that to happen and there's a bajillion ways to stop it from happening that don't include excluding anyone. And let's not forget more people = more tax = more money for the NHS.
    There's too many people using the NHS. The best way to get more money for it is to raise taxes.
  • [cite]Posted By: Friend Or Defoe[/cite]I believe the best way to help the NHS is to get the rich to stop using it. Controversially I believe the best way to do this is to lower the standard in wealthier areas, making the luxury of private help care a more appealing prospect, similar to the methods they use to get people to fly business class.
    Not sure that works because
    1) In this country private health care still leans heavily on the NHS
    2) It would be a bit rude to say to the people who are paying the lions share that they shouldn't benefit from a service. It'd be interesting to see who uses/abuses the system more, I don't know but my guess is that it's not the posh that are clogging up A and E.
  • I'm all for immigration in moderation, I don't think we should have an open door policy though.
  • I'm very grateful I live in a country where 1) the health service is universal and free at the point of need, and 2) people WANT to move here.

    Long may both continue.
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  • No immigrants should be allowed to come into this or any country and reap the benefits of a health service without having paid a single penny in, same goes for all benefits and strict checks should be made to prevent "health tourists".

    If someone wants to come and work here they can have gradually increased benefits dependent the amount of N.I. contributions they have paid or get sponsored by a relative/employer.
  • [cite]Posted By: Chizz[/cite]I'm very grateful I live in a country where 1) the health service is universal and free at the point of need, and 2) people WANT to move here.

    Long may both continue.

    Until we are bankrupt!

    Can't go on like this, it is simply not sustainable
  • [cite]Posted By: Chizz[/cite]I'm very grateful I live in a country where 1) the health service is universal and free at the point of need, and 2) people WANT to move here.

    Long may both continue.

    Well said.
  • I struggle to think of a country that has gone bankrupt because it had too many people in it. China has 2 billion and they seem to be doing alright.
  • [cite]Posted By: floydandharvey[/cite]This might sound weird, but I don't mind women immigrating, eg for every three women from Eastern Europe allowed in

    as long as these women are attractive i totally agree, anything a bit rough shouldn't be allowed in
  • Floyd and harvey, like in the ali g film, fit... fit.... fit.... fit.....minger back you go love.....fit.....fit....
  • [cite]Posted By: Chunes[/cite]I struggle to think of a country that has gone bankrupt because it had too many people in it. China has 2 billion and they seem to be doing alright.

    No comparison, China is a huge country and the people have a much lower standard of living.

    Pay out more in benefits etc than you get in tax/N.I. do the sums!
  • Interesting points - take massive issue with the fact that women are more educated and intelligent (have you met my wife!).

    Agree we should control our own borders and also agree about the access to services based on NI contributions, however, where does that leave the 2 and 3 generations of unemployed white working class on large number of inner city estates (i've been working with these families for years, they exist). Dad, Grandad etc never worked or contributed, expect the rest of us to pay. In addressing issues of health tourism and immigration we have to have a solution to that as well!
  • Make them work, create schemes that allow fit folk to do community work to earn their dole. I'm sure it would make a lot of them get a proper job.
  • [cite]Posted By: McLovin[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: Friend Or Defoe[/cite]I believe the best way to help the NHS is to get the rich to stop using it. Controversially I believe the best way to do this is to lower the standard in wealthier areas, making the luxury of private help care a more appealing prospect, similar to the methods they use to get people to fly business class.
    Not sure that works because
    1) In this country private health care still leans heavily on the NHS
    2) It would be a bit rude to say to the people who are paying the lions share that they shouldn't benefit from a service. It'd be interesting to see who uses/abuses the system more, I don't know but my guess is that it's not the posh that are clogging up A and E.
    Point 1 is a good point and although point 2 is correct, it's the only way in my opinion to reduce the amount of people currently using it.
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  • The country running a deficit has little to do with the amount of people on benefits. Unfortunately for about the last 5 years all the Tory papers seem to have led people to believe otherwise. They've also constantly suggested that people on benefits are, by and large, immigrants - which in my experience is simply not true. Pop down your local wetherspoons at 12 o clock on a monday and take a good look around.
  • Thats one hospital

    Try a local one

    The care from forgein nationals was around 90% disgraceful.

    FACT i have witnessed first hand bad treatment to people in my wife's ward and to my wife as well

    It got that bad my wife got from her bed to help a eldery lady to the comode as the Nurse kissed her lips walked out when asked to help!!!!!!!
  • Not saying that doesn't go on but I know both from my wife (who is a nursing sister in a central London Hospital) and from my dad currently being in a critical care ward that the care from the vast majority of memdical staff is good.

    Certainly at QEH Woolwich many of the Doctors and nurses caring for my dad are immigrants of some sort or heritage and doing a hard job well.

    And regardless if immigrant NHS staff are 100% excellent or 100% terrible that's not really, IMHO an argument for or against controlled immigration.
  • Without Immigration we would never have had Dennish Rommedahl, Jimmy Floyd Hasselbank or Talal El Kakouri and would have had to rely on the likes of Michale Turner etc.
  • another blue paper subject like religion , politics , marmite etc on this one i would say i would like better control on immigration as i do believe we do not have the infrastructure and monies to keep expanding in the manner we are
    and our country is and will continual to suffer.......of course some will agree and some will disagree.......but you did ask,
  • edited March 2010
    Just from a personal view when I was on a life support machine in lewisham hospital the staff in intensive care were mainly white british or white european and indian doctor, they looked after me amazingly when I was in a coma for a week so my family say! And when I used to try pull my tubes out they would calm me down, once I was better and placed on the ward the service went down fast I'm not going to say which form of immigrant ran the ward, but at least 6 times my parents had to ask the 'sister' who was sat reading that my drip needed changing and I needed another kind of bag emptying. I'm all for the right people comming here just we need to vet people more. My boss at work dad is ill and had a carrer who looked after him twice a week, his phone bills went from nothing a month to 250 a month the so called carrer had been calling lagos!!!! We can let people in, we just have to stop criminals comming here oh and if you get convicted of a crime back you go, we need to grow a pair as a country and deport criminals and bloody stop them in the first place.
  • Only a few more weeks until the General Election! Did this site exist at the time of the last election?
  • May 6th election, just had a letter from the council confirming the use of the school as a polling station
  • And glad to hear your mum is getting better
  • Imigration to this country is req'd

    The vast majority of imigrants to this country come here to work and thus contribe to the economy. This is not so much the case with retiring brits. Can i use your spanish / french / portugese hospital please? No you havent contributed! Doesnt stack up.

    I really dont understand how people dont see the otherside of this argument. All of these imigrants countries have reciprical agreements with us. So if it is so easy, go over to theirs and try it. Should you choose to move to scandinavia you would be earning considerably more money relative to the same job here and could send back cash to your family here. Give it a go. I wonder why not many brits do? Language and cant be arsed because life is easy here.
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