In his first six seasons in charge (four joint with Gritty), Charlton finished between 5th and 15th in Div 2. The first time we made the playoffs (96), we lost meekly to Palarse. If the internet had been around then and expectations had been at the level they are now, I very much doubt he'd have been given the time to build the team, squad and club that led to promotion in 98.
Patience is a virtue that is sadly lacking in football these days.
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Football and the surrounding environment has changed though and people who don't get immediate success are under pressure regardless of club, their history and their stature.
Back in the day the rewards were not as great, and neither were the losses, totally different now.
Exactly. Hull City are a case in point. 8 years ago they were in league 2, they get promoted to the premier league and stay there against the odds, then because they have a bad season the manager gets sacked even though he did amazingly well to get them there and then keep them up.
Billy Davies got Derby promoted well ahead of schedule, then was sacked before xmas after a bad start in the premier, what do chairman actually expect. No manager gets time these days.
Most intelligent fans recognised that fact and made allowance accordingly.
Sadly, nearly 20 years on, too many do not appearto have the intelligence to realise that Dowie and Pardew spunked all the parachute money on cr** and that Parkinson is therefore trying to compete with little or no money.
The circumstances for both Curbishley and Parkinson are similar yet different.
The attitude of the fans is very different.
NO1 knows whats going on behind the scenes at our club with regard to financial matters and other cost cutting measures. He has had to use free agents and loan signings from day 1 at the club and still managed to get us in the running for promotion this year. I would feel very different if he had gone the Pardew way and spent money on most of the squad...but he hasnt! The fact of the matter is there is NO1 available who is better than Parky for us at the moment or would want to come to a club whose got no money to spend and 11 players out of contract at the end of this season. People really have to get a grip and realise the days of Di Canio, Robinson, Mendonca, Bent etc are over, they are the past, its the future that counts now we are a LEAGUE ONE club! i can see a good future for our football club coming in the next few years and all our fans need to do is back the team and management whoever they are in the years to come!
dowie got given a reasonable budget (premier league standards) bought some shit but got given only 12 games and was told his own backroom staff ....
les reed lovely bloke and all that ...
pardew got given the biggest budget in the championship and f**ked up massively...
parkinson has a wage bill in the top 3 , i know he has spent no money but at this level the dough was done on wages/signing on fees... dailly and co wouldn't have come for nothing....
if we were poor payers and been playing in this league for a few years then yeah have as long as you want but any manager with some spunk about him would have produced a better effort than getting us relegated so far adrift from the pack last season
I'm not a fan of Parky, as I can't see any improvement in the first team, we seem to have got worse. But I can't see any other proven alternatives.
Yes he's got one of the biggest wage budgets in the league, and we're third. Most fans were expecting mid table at best, some thought he'd take us down again. Not gone well recently, but we've still got 3 wins in 5. Judging him on results, as often pointed out last season after Waggott(?) said he would be, suggests he's done a decent job this season. Far from perfect, we should be playing better, but there are 10 games left and we still have a chance of promotion.
A chance of promotion with 10 games to go is what most would have settled for in the summer.
In a nutshell Len!
Back in the heady days of Curbishleys reign, & including the start of it, with Gritty, the small core of fans knew that the main aim was to get back home, & that any performance(match by match or seasonal) above the odds was an added bonus, rather than what a lot of general football fans feel these days, is a god given right.
We would've loved to have really gone against the odds 'Lennie style', & back up to the top flight earlier than we did, but the events that tickled our 'nads, such as the Valley Party upping the stakes of our cause to get back home, nearly making the play-offs in 91/92, finally getting back home, victory over Blackburn in the FA Cup, the East Stand being built, FA Cup Quarter Final(90's)the Valley being developed further, etc, were still great in their own right, given our then circumstances.
The weight of expectation these days is ridiculous, from fans, from chairmen, board, media, etc, but unfortunately, that really has come down to the money & the gross overspending/inflation that has infected the game for the past 18 years(hello Sky, hello blackburn-who got the ball rolling).
It seems that If you spend a lot, you should either have success, or manage to survive(if promoted to the top flight), but obviously there are no guarantees. It does also hinge on the manager & how good they are.
Case in point, Phil Brown. With the cash he has had, by todays terms he should have done a lot better than where Hull are now. But since their initial spurt at the start of their Premier League life, they have been nothing short of abysmal really. Survival was the biggest factor for them last year, & goal achieved(just), should have built on that this year.
I think a better manager would have done an awful lot more with the cash & players Brown has had at his disposal.(Same goes for Roy Keane & Steve Bruce at Sunderland - the later Is still in the process of building I guess)
Parkinson has, in theory, done a good job in getting us where we are(this season) with the constraints he has had, but with some of the players he has had at his disposal in the 2nd tier & now 3rd(still a wee chunk of talent in the side), he could have done a bit better(& thats being kind- arrows aimed mainly toward last season.)
The real test will be next year, if we end up staying in this division & the 'name players' depart.(Heres hoping it doesn't come to that!)
But, finally, getting back to the original topic question, there would be so many factors to consider. If we were trying to get back to the Valley now & we were trying to consolidate our position in the 2nd tier & Curbishley was doing that, then I believe yes, he would have 6 years building us!
But 2nd tier, & the money/opportunities Pardew was given, & 6 years in that league(with some further investment), then probably not.
Because of how we had come back to the The Valley there was this unusual direct communication between groups of fans and the Board. Thankfully Richard Murray realised it would be smart to keep it going. They found ways to get quite important messages out about the situation and their ambitions, to small groups of fans, knowing those fans would "pass it on". Voice of the Valley played a crucial role. Later on, (97) there was the internet mailing list. Three directors were regularly on there (Stevens, Sumners, Whitehand). There were all the financial initiatives, which helped keep up the dialogue, and the supporter on the board. People understood the situation and where the club was going. There was no money, so Curbs was seen to be doing the best he could. Then finally they found him some money, and what did the silly bugger do? Blow it on Clive Mendonca :-))). We were all ecstatic, but even then, I dont remember people starting the season saying we'd get promotion. It carried on this way for a while, even after we reached the promised land. In 1999 I had the surreal unforgettable experience of picking up the phone in my Prague apartment to find Richard Murray wanting to explain me exactly why we were selling Danny Mills. Somewhere, round about 2004,I think, we slowly started to lose each other. I mean the fans and the Board, and Curbs in the middle.
And you know as I write this, it makes me feel really sad, because it reminds me what a tremendous, perhaps unique club we had in the Curbs years. Thats why i dont read threads entitled "Murray out". I'd rather read Stuwall's latest.
Football has changed far too much.
No one minds if you have no money as long as 100% sweat and blood is given and you GRAFT, as thats the Charlton way.
What I saw Saturday has never made me more angry when supporting Charlton.
If a team reflects a manager, well sorry but Parky can do one because that was heartless, gutless and bloody shameful.
Enough cop outs and excuses, theyre 'professionals' and being paid good money for this league.