[quote][cite]Posted By: seth plum[/cite]I for one don't know what the circumstances of Baileys departure from Southend, therefore don't know why he is hated there. I do know that Charlton fans are equally annoyed at Scott Parker (but not for example Darren Bent), so there may be (a possibly unjustified) reason or explanation.[/quote]
Every Southend fan recognises that Bailey is a great player (player not person), and was destined for a better team than Southend. He was our player of the year and fans player of the year and had the full support of the terraces. When it was rumoured that you were coming in from him he stated in the press that he didn't want to be picked to play as his head was in the wrong place and it was unfair. When he was reminded that the manager picks the team he stated that he didn't want to play as he might get injured which would jeopardise his 'dream move'. Both points are in the public domain and have not been taken out of context, He was transfer listed as he refused to discuss a new contract and we did not want him to go for a free. if one of your players refused to discuss a new contract with a year to go what would your management do? .http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,12874_3950704,00.html. There is more out there as well.
How would you feel is one of your players refused to play ? As it happens in his last match he was told he was playing, he was brilliant scored and got man of the match (in front of your scouts !). So he could have left as a hero. I have no doubt that at some point in the future you will remember the term 'dream move' as do Barnet and Southend supporters.
to reiterate- no other ex Southend player is treated in this way. Rickets is disliked as he put zero effort in and that was clear to see, but he is disliked, not hated
but none of this hatred has in anyway coloured your view of the punch that Bailey took to the chest? Strange that. Even stranger that Tilson hasn't once said that there was no punch.
I agree that is interesting to read the other take on things just that is seems that minds had been made up long before the game and axe's were being made ready to grind.
I can understand the "hate" and might well feel the same but as I remember it Bailey was already on the transfer list when we came in for him. Then you wouldn't let him go so he acted up.
[cite]Posted By: Oggy Red[/cite]With Bailey at Southend, read Scott Parker at Charlton.
Parker's was the bigger betrayal.
Agree because we hadn't put him on the transfer list unlike Southend/Bailey.
[cite]Posted By: Southendaddick[/cite]
Just a question but does anyone on here think that any other player in our side would have gone down clutching their face after being hit in the guts?
From standing directly in line with him he wasn't holding his face, he was holding his chest which was where he was punched.
Did he overact? maybe but since it wasn't me who had been punched in the chest by a 6ft plus CH it would be hard for me to say what he should do or just how much it hurt.
Funny that people were complaining that when Basey got done our players didn't make enough of a fuss about it but when Bailey PERHAPS milks a clear foul he's wrong as well.
As I said elsewhere,- Parker bogged off halfway through the season, having only signed a five year contract in the summer, and went to a team we were competing against for a Champions League place at the time. If Bailey only had a year left on his contract, they'd have had to sell him January anyway in order to get a fee for him, because he could have just let his contract run down and gone for a free in the summer, along with a nice juicy signing on fee. Similar alleged petty behaviour, but rather different levels of harm caused.
It's not the money, as much as the timing, the remaining duration of the contract, and the relative positions of the buying and selling club that I think make Parker's behaviour worse, as well as the knock-on effect on our respective seasons.
The Southend manager prior to the game stated that " If you stop Bailey, you stop Charlton" Clearly the manager's lack of knowledge of the opposition shows the gezzer is not a top manager. To say the least. No Manager would single out one player as the heart and soul of any team. It was this attitude that lost them the game. He clearly didnt expect anything of our other players but Racon, Reid and JJ tore them to shreads. So the manager is clearly a numpty. Wouldnt expect him to own up to seeing one of his own players punching someone. Muppet.
[cite]Posted By: aliwibble[/cite]Similar alleged petty behaviour, but rather different levels of harm caused.
I was comparing it to the impact of Bailey on team performance and results at Southend, as a similar effect to Parker's impact on Charlton. Bailey was their Parker.
[cite]Posted By: United we stand[/cite]Guys
Southend Supporter comes in peace
Just to clear up one very important point.
Very very few Southend Supporters believe the red card was the wrong decision. Christophe should not have pushed/punched him . We know that - and he is getting stick for it on our own forums. Like wise Bailey should not have instigated the pushing, If Bailey hadn't of play acted though would the ref have sent Christophe off, well we will never know? Regardless was Christophe in the right, no he wasn’t
To be fair the incident played out as follows;
free kick given
Racon stopped quick free kick being taken
Southend player shoulder barged him to get the ball
Bailey did the same in return
Christophe ran over and punched Bailey - from my angle it looked like in the bicep area.
Bailey went down - not much of a delay to be honest.
What we, as Addicks need to understand, is how we would react if Parker was a bit over zealous in highlighting an offence in order to be sure to get the desired outcome (a red card). Regardless of Bailey's reaction - it was a red card.
I have a lot of sympathy with Southend - I was actually a guest of one of their fans and we had a great chat after the game. It seems not a lot is going your way at the moment but the two chaps up front held the ball up really well, drew fouls and that seemed a good way for you to score goals. Francis has a nice right foot on him but sadly no pace - and Reidy exploited that.
I think you'll be OK but it looks like it will be tight. Good luck
[cite]Posted By: OhsouthLondon[/cite]The Southend manager prior to the game stated that " If you stop Bailey, you stop Charlton"
Clearly the manager's lack of knowledge of the opposition shows the gezzer is not a top manager. To say the least.
No Manager would single out one player as the heart and soul of any team.
It was this attitude that lost them the game.
He clearly didnt expect anything of our other players but Racon, Reid and JJ tore them to shreads.
So the manager is clearly a numpty.
Wouldnt expect him to own up to seeing one of his own players punching someone.
Muppet.
Most opposing managers target Sam as the dangerman, which is why they invariably double mark him and have another player on hand to cut off Sam's supply.
With Sam under lock and key, that should give plenty of space and opportunity to our other players coming forward.
Except .......
[cite]Posted By: OhsouthLondon[/cite]The Southend manager prior to the game stated that " If you stop Bailey, you stop Charlton"
Clearly the manager's lack of knowledge of the opposition shows the gezzer is not a top manager. To say the least.
How many managers ever reveal their tactics before a game?
None.
If you ask me, this was a public call to the home crowd to remember Bailey - and give him a hard time.
[quote][cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]but none of this hatred has in anyway coloured your view of the punch that Bailey took to the chest? Strange that. .
.[/quote]Sorry I don't understand your point, I have accepted that he punched/pushed him . Personally I thought he had a closed fist and it was a punch but I can't be 100% sure. Even your own supporters on here accept that he went down like a sack of shit, on other threads you have your own supporters calling him a disgrace for the way he went down. I even stated that I understood why he was sent off, as do most Southend Supporters. Are you saying that you believe he gave him a proper punch that if someone gave you in the street would cause you go down in the way that Bailey did ? If that is your opinion then fair enough, but we will have to agree to disagree.
ps- If he really was punched as hard as he made out I expect that in training today he will be showing a great big bruise on his stomach/chest ?
[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]but none of this hatred has in anyway coloured your view of the punch that Bailey took to the chest? Strange that. .
.
Sorry I don't understand your point, I have accepted that he punched/pushed him .
Personally I thought he had a closed fist and it was a punch but I can't be 100% sure. Even your own supporters on here accept that he went down like a sack of shit, on other threads you have your own supporters calling him a disgrace for the way he went down. I even stated that I understood why he was sent off, as do most Southend Supporters. Are you saying that you believe he gave him a proper punch that if someone gave you in the street would cause you go down in the way that Bailey did ? If that is your opinion then fair enough, but we will have to agree to disagree.
ps- If he really was punched as hard as he made out I expect that in training today he will be showing a great big bruise on his stomach/chest ?
[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]but none of this hatred has in anyway coloured your view of the punch that Bailey took to the chest? Strange that. .
.
Sorry I don't understand your point, I have accepted that he punched/pushed him .
Personally I thought he had a closed fist and it was a punch but I can't be 100% sure. ?
Make your mind up time. Did he get punched or not?
You seem to be finding it hard to admit that it was what happened as you know that once you admit that the rest of your argument collapses falls down faster than, well, Nicky Bailey..
As for some fans saying he was a "disgrace" so what. There were a couple of thousand singing that he was "the love of their life". Might even have been some of the same people.
[quote][cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite][quote][cite]Posted By: pilchard[/cite]yawn[/quote]
Indeed
Of course the fact that the punch was thrown in the penalty area in FRONT OF THE AWAY END means that we couldn't see it but all the Southend fans could.
We won, you lost, move on.[/quote]
[quote][cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]but none of this hatred has in anyway coloured your view of the punch that Bailey took to the chest? Strange that. Even stranger that Tilson hasn't once said that there was no punch.
I can understand the "hate" and might well feel the same but as I remember it Bailey was already on the transfer list when we came in for him. Then you wouldn't let him go so he acted up.[/quote]
[quote][cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]
To clarify a couple of points The only thing that actually is on video is Bailey on the floor- some way out of the area unless you are suggesting he rolled out of the area several yards. You were the first club that actually put in a bid for Bailey, there was press talk for other teams but no actual bid. You made a bid , we accepted it and sold him to you him go - so I don't understand the 'wouldnt let him go' comment'. I have already stated why he was transfer listed
So he was on the transfer list and we made an offer and he said he wanted to go. Can't see the problem there. Why are you so upset, still, about it? Because he didn't want to get injured when he was about to be transfered?
He was about a yard outside the box. Hardly "some way" out.
Yet again you are letting your hatred of Bailey blind you to the facts.
Christophe punched Bailey so he was rightly sent off. He's now been banned for 4 games. Good.
Reading the comments from Southend fans about Bailey and his departure from Roots Hall, makes me wonder quite why they took that one so badly. We all know that footballers can be greedy, with the cited Parker example a classic - he'd just signed a new deal, he was already on fantastic money and it was halfway through Charlton's best season in modern times.
Bailey however, was shown the door at Fulham as a youngster and had to work his way back up the football ladder from non league. He, along with hundreds of other footballers from all the clubs in the league, were shown NO loyalty by their clubs when they were considered not good enough for said clubs. So when the shoe is on the other foot and Bailey has proved himself to have ability beyond that of his club, I can understand why he might want to take the opportunity to better himself.
I don't suppose the likes of Scott Parker, Rio Ferdinand or Ashley Cole have ever had to worry that they might have to find an alternative living aside from football.
Of course if there is more to Bailey's departure from Southend than wanting extra money then perhaps I'm wrong, but for now, his gamesmanship apart, I'm on his side.
Ha ha, Covered End ...... I leave the forum running on my toolbar all day - but I do end up having little bursts of activity every so often at various times during the day. You get involved in discussion, and then find yourself wanting to see the responses.
Comments
Every Southend fan recognises that Bailey is a great player (player not person), and was destined for a better team than Southend. He was our player of the year and fans player of the year and had the full support of the terraces. When it was rumoured that you were coming in from him he stated in the press that he didn't want to be picked to play as his head was in the wrong place and it was unfair. When he was reminded that the manager picks the team he stated that he didn't want to play as he might get injured which would jeopardise his 'dream move'. Both points are in the public domain and have not been taken out of context, He was transfer listed as he refused to discuss a new contract and we did not want him to go for a free. if one of your players refused to discuss a new contract with a year to go what would your management do?
.http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,12874_3950704,00.html. There is more out there as well.
How would you feel is one of your players refused to play ? As it happens in his last match he was told he was playing, he was brilliant scored and got man of the match (in front of your scouts !). So he could have left as a hero. I have no doubt that at some point in the future you will remember the term 'dream move' as do Barnet and Southend supporters.
to reiterate- no other ex Southend player is treated in this way. Rickets is disliked as he put zero effort in and that was clear to see, but he is disliked, not hated
I agree that is interesting to read the other take on things just that is seems that minds had been made up long before the game and axe's were being made ready to grind.
I can understand the "hate" and might well feel the same but as I remember it Bailey was already on the transfer list when we came in for him. Then you wouldn't let him go so he acted up.
No, they wouldn't touch it on principal.
Just a question but does anyone on here think that any other player in our side would have gone down clutching their face after being hit in the guts?
Talal El Karkouri would be about the last one I can think of.
Fair play to him though, it won us the game.
Surely subjective, Ali .....?
In it's own way, Bailey was as vital to Southend as Parker was to Charlton.
Unless you mean Parker's betrayal was bigger because more money was involved.
Agree because we hadn't put him on the transfer list unlike Southend/Bailey.
From standing directly in line with him he wasn't holding his face, he was holding his chest which was where he was punched.
Did he overact? maybe but since it wasn't me who had been punched in the chest by a 6ft plus CH it would be hard for me to say what he should do or just how much it hurt.
Funny that people were complaining that when Basey got done our players didn't make enough of a fuss about it but when Bailey PERHAPS milks a clear foul he's wrong as well.
It's not the money, as much as the timing, the remaining duration of the contract, and the relative positions of the buying and selling club that I think make Parker's behaviour worse, as well as the knock-on effect on our respective seasons.
Clearly the manager's lack of knowledge of the opposition shows the gezzer is not a top manager. To say the least.
No Manager would single out one player as the heart and soul of any team.
It was this attitude that lost them the game.
He clearly didnt expect anything of our other players but Racon, Reid and JJ tore them to shreads.
So the manager is clearly a numpty.
Wouldnt expect him to own up to seeing one of his own players punching someone.
Muppet.
I was comparing it to the impact of Bailey on team performance and results at Southend, as a similar effect to Parker's impact on Charlton. Bailey was their Parker.
Accept your other points though.
To be fair the incident played out as follows;
free kick given
Racon stopped quick free kick being taken
Southend player shoulder barged him to get the ball
Bailey did the same in return
Christophe ran over and punched Bailey - from my angle it looked like in the bicep area.
Bailey went down - not much of a delay to be honest.
What we, as Addicks need to understand, is how we would react if Parker was a bit over zealous in highlighting an offence in order to be sure to get the desired outcome (a red card). Regardless of Bailey's reaction - it was a red card.
I have a lot of sympathy with Southend - I was actually a guest of one of their fans and we had a great chat after the game. It seems not a lot is going your way at the moment but the two chaps up front held the ball up really well, drew fouls and that seemed a good way for you to score goals. Francis has a nice right foot on him but sadly no pace - and Reidy exploited that.
I think you'll be OK but it looks like it will be tight. Good luck
Most opposing managers target Sam as the dangerman, which is why they invariably double mark him and have another player on hand to cut off Sam's supply.
With Sam under lock and key, that should give plenty of space and opportunity to our other players coming forward.
Except .......
How many managers ever reveal their tactics before a game?
None.
If you ask me, this was a public call to the home crowd to remember Bailey - and give him a hard time.
Nothing to do with on the park tactics.
.[/quote]Sorry I don't understand your point, I have accepted that he punched/pushed him .
Personally I thought he had a closed fist and it was a punch but I can't be 100% sure. Even your own supporters on here accept that he went down like a sack of shit, on other threads you have your own supporters calling him a disgrace for the way he went down. I even stated that I understood why he was sent off, as do most Southend Supporters. Are you saying that you believe he gave him a proper punch that if someone gave you in the street would cause you go down in the way that Bailey did ? If that is your opinion then fair enough, but we will have to agree to disagree.
ps- If he really was punched as hard as he made out I expect that in training today he will be showing a great big bruise on his stomach/chest ?
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Make your mind up time. Did he get punched or not?
You seem to be finding it hard to admit that it was what happened as you know that once you admit that the rest of your argument collapses falls down faster than, well, Nicky Bailey..
As for some fans saying he was a "disgrace" so what. There were a couple of thousand singing that he was "the love of their life". Might even have been some of the same people.
And what hair I've got left is ginger already.
''OH NICKY BAILEY, YOU ARE THE LOVE OF MY LIFE.....''
Indeed
Of course the fact that the punch was thrown in the penalty area in FRONT OF THE AWAY END means that we couldn't see it but all the Southend fans could.
We won, you lost, move on.[/quote]
[quote][cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]but none of this hatred has in anyway coloured your view of the punch that Bailey took to the chest? Strange that. Even stranger that Tilson hasn't once said that there was no punch.
I can understand the "hate" and might well feel the same but as I remember it Bailey was already on the transfer list when we came in for him. Then you wouldn't let him go so he acted up.[/quote]
[quote][cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]
To clarify a couple of points
The only thing that actually is on video is Bailey on the floor- some way out of the area unless you are suggesting he rolled out of the area several yards. You were the first club that actually put in a bid for Bailey, there was press talk for other teams but no actual bid. You made a bid , we accepted it and sold him to you him go - so I don't understand the 'wouldnt let him go' comment'. I have already stated why he was transfer listed
He was about a yard outside the box. Hardly "some way" out.
Yet again you are letting your hatred of Bailey blind you to the facts.
Christophe punched Bailey so he was rightly sent off. He's now been banned for 4 games. Good.
Bailey however, was shown the door at Fulham as a youngster and had to work his way back up the football ladder from non league. He, along with hundreds of other footballers from all the clubs in the league, were shown NO loyalty by their clubs when they were considered not good enough for said clubs. So when the shoe is on the other foot and Bailey has proved himself to have ability beyond that of his club, I can understand why he might want to take the opportunity to better himself.
I don't suppose the likes of Scott Parker, Rio Ferdinand or Ashley Cole have ever had to worry that they might have to find an alternative living aside from football.
Of course if there is more to Bailey's departure from Southend than wanting extra money then perhaps I'm wrong, but for now, his gamesmanship apart, I'm on his side.
Hardly surprising then that some of them dislike him.
Swisdom agrees wholeheartedly with this
Result!
Some people really do have too much time on their hands ! - Not you Oggy :-)
Addictive!