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How do we turn it around?

Leeds losing last night proves that there are still likely to be many twists and turns before the end of the season.
The team that can find their form in the next few games, and can carry it through, should stand a great chance of finishing in the top two.
We are still in a strong position, but have to turn our poor recent form around quickly and go on a good run. The question is how?
I think Parky has been copying Pardews old trick of clutching at straws in recent weeks, without thinking things through properly.
We need to start by playing players in their best positions and getting our passing game going again. Semedo deep protecting the defence. Bailey in the middle.
To create chances we need to play with two wingers at home, Sam and Reid. Most importantly we need pace in the forward line. Let's give Mckenzie and Burton a go together and see if the partnership can provide what we have been missing all season.
This could be our best chance of getting out of this division for the forseeable future, so lets get right behind them, they might just surprise us!
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Comments

  • Start keeping clean sheets, even if it means playing 4-5-1 at home. We need to grind out a few results and get some cofidence back, then go from there.
  • Hopefully the 4-5-1 will have two proper wingers, which should make it a bit more attacking than it was at the start of the season, without losing the grip on the centre mid.
  • Oh and get Racon, Bailey and Shelvey to practice their shooting in training, as with only one up front we're going to need to be contributing even more goals from midfield.
  • What Scoham said.
  • Why only one up front at home? Lets get back to playing some confidence building football. Burton is the only player who can play on his own and to me it looks like his legs have gone in recent weeks.
  • We only play one up front because we only have one decent striker.

    Our quality is in midfield - they just need to play it through rather than over them.
  • Why do we all know that 4-5-1 is best and the manager doesnt...
  • edited February 2010
    [cite]Posted By: queensland_addick[/cite]Why only one up front at home? Lets get back to playing some confidence building football. Burton is the only player who can play on his own and to me it looks like his legs have gone in recent weeks.
    Personally I find Akpo Sodje very frustrating, no first touch and not a particularly clever player either.

    Mooney is better in those areas, but doesn't offer enough to be starting regularly. No real pace or any physical presence either.

    McKenzie I wouldn't mind starting to see how he does, and he could start on the left and move up front if needed.

    In midfield we need Semedo, otherwise we just have no physical presence at all. Bailey has to be in the team. That leaves a place for Shelvey, who apart from the injured Basey, is our only decent set piece taker (anyone notice Richardson was taking corners on Monday? And Bailey was wasting the free kicks), who will close down (something we weren't doing Monday) and create/score goals. Racon is the alternative. With Reid we now have a proper left winger, which turns the 4-4-1-1 early on in the season into a more balanced 4-5-1/4-3-3.
  • Bailey in the middle and Reid on the wing should definitely help.
  • [cite]Posted By: Southendaddick[/cite]Why do we all know that 4-5-1 is best and the manager doesnt...
    Because we all started moaning as soon as we drew a couple of games and that we should play 4-4-2!
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  • Three magic numbers.....4....5....1
  • Not me mate but I take your point.
  • I don't think there is any chance of Burton, playing on his own up front, scoring enough goals to fire us to promotion.
    We have been relying too much on the midfield to score the goals so far this season and without Bailey's goals we'd be mid table or worse.
    The goals will need to come predominately from the forwards if we are to stand a chance of going up. Our only hope is to find a forward pairing that clicks, and find it quickly. Play 4-5-1 in some difficult away games.
  • We'll never get our passing game going with Bailey in the middle.
  • Time for McKenzie to start I think, also Reid has been one of our better players since signing so he needs to start. Burton and McKenzie could form a decent partnership and with Reid/Sam on the wings and Bailey breaking from midfield, there surely would be a threat there from all areas.

    The defending may have been bad on Monday but I don't see any other options, Llera imho is too much of a liability.

    Two possible line ups dependant on oppostion: First one is perhaps more solid and would work better away, second a home more attack minded formation.

    Elliot
    Richardson,Dailly, Sodje, Solly
    Semedo Racon
    Sam Bailey Reid
    Burton


    Or

    Elliot
    Richardson Dailly Sodje Solly
    Sam Semedo Bailey Reid
    Burton McKenzie
  • Not moaning or changing anything. Negativity (or honesty) is the root of all of our issues.

    Seriously, at times we've looked poor with 4-5-1 and we've looked poor with 4-4-2. Not sure flipping between the two (most obvious) variables is particularly helpful. Our best performance was 4-4-2, so that (in itself) isn't the problem. We've also changed most of the players at some point or another, so I'm not convinced that bringing McKenzie or Shelvey or whoever else in is going to solve the problem by itself.

    If we are going to go to 4-5-1 we need to make sure that the wide players or attacking midfielder get a lot closer to the forward than has been the case, otherwise it's just a string of Burton winning balls for the opposition's midfield to mop up. Simplistically the midfield need to get up and support in numbers a bit more, and the defence need to quit that zonal clusterf*ck. But, I just don't know. I think the problem's beyond the setup or tactics. I don't believe the team have lost belief in the manager (to be fair they were generally supportive of Pardew, too), I just think that he's not able to get the best out of them, for some reason. I'm sure he's tried yelling at them and cuddling them and all things in between, but something appears to be rotten in the state of denmark. For all that he's not been able to spend we have a squad that should be at least keeping pace with Leeds and Norwich. The board backed the manager with expensive loans, experienced signings and keeping the core of the midfield together and having (I think) the highest wage bill in the League.
  • [cite]Posted By: Scoham[/cite]Start keeping clean sheets, even if it means playing 4-5-1 at home. We need to grind out a few results and get some cofidence back, then go from there.
    Bang on!
    [cite]Posted By: WSS[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: Southendaddick[/cite]Why do we all know that 4-5-1 is best and the manager doesnt...
    Because we all started moaning as soon as we drew a couple of games and that we should play 4-4-2!
    Also Bang on!

    We changed our set up after a few draws as every team had us sussed apparently.

    Elliott
    ----Richardson---Dailly---Sodje---Solly
    Sam
    Racon
    Bailey
    Reid
    Shelvey
    Burton
  • We need to start playing some decent football again. That will bring confidence, and goals should be the result of that.
    Which system is going to get us playing good football and creating chances again? For me, good attacking football, to excite the Valley and get the fans buzzing again, means playing 442 with two wingers and two forwards who compliment each other's style of play.
  • [cite]Posted By: queensland_addick[/cite]I don't think there is any chance of Burton, playing on his own up front, scoring enough goals to fire us to promotion.
    We have been relying too much on the midfield to score the goals so far this season and without Bailey's goals we'd be mid table or worse.
    The goals will need to come predominately from the forwards if we are to stand a chance of going up. Our only hope is to find a forward pairing that clicks, and find it quickly. Play 4-5-1 in some difficult away games.
    You don't have to have a 20 goal a season striker to be promoted.

    Have a look at Burnley's list of goalscorers last season or even Birmingham's.

    Birmingham Phillips on 14, Jerome on 9, O'Connor on 6, rest on 4 or less. Similar to us with Burton and Bailey our top scorers, Shelvey and others some way behind. If we keep clean sheets, which we're capable of, we won't have to score loads, which I'm not sure we can do regularly anyway.

    As I've said, a 451/433 can be attacking, it's down to how the team play it. Hoofing it up to Burton with a line of 5 sitting deep giving him no support won't work, but wingers getting crosses in or running into the box, midfielders breaking forward, full backs overlapping etc is just as attacking than 442. I just think we'll get more out of Bailey, Semedo, Racon and Shelvey (well, 3 at a time) in a 4-5-1, which is more worthwhile than trying to get the best out of Burton with Akpo, Mooney or McKenzie (though he does need a chance first).
  • We turn it around by somehow getting 3 points on Saturday.

    For me performance isn't even important - we simply need the win to stop the rot and then the same again on Tues at home to Brighton - all of sudden the table would look a lot brighter.

    Like most others, I think McKenzie deserves to start in which case it has to be 4-4-2 as I can't see him playing the lone striker role (only Burton can play that IMO).

    So it should be him and Burton up front with two wide men (Sam and Reid) and Bailey plus either Semedo or Racon in the centre. Shelvey will have to start on the bench as he can only play in 4-5-1 IMO
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  • [quote]

    As I've said, a 451/433 can be attacking, it's down to how the team play it. Hoofing it up to Burton with a line of 5 sitting deep giving him no support won't work, but wingers getting crosses in or running into the box, midfielders breaking forward, full backs overlapping etc is just as attacking than 442. I just think we'll get more out of Bailey, Semedo, Racon and Shelvey (well, 3 at a time) in a 4-5-1, which is more worthwhile than trying to get the best out of Burton with Akpo, Mooney or McKenzie (though he does need a chance first).[/quote]

    Good post Sco. If Burton was playing as well as he was early in the season I would agree with you. Unfortunately he's not and I don't see any alternative to play the loan striker role, so I don't think 4 5 1 is likely to be very effective ATM.
  • Possibly not, so if we have to keep 442 I hope McKenzie gets a chance. Mooney isn't what we need right now and Akpo hasn't been good enough to get another start.
  • edited February 2010
    Burton hasn't scored a goal from open play in almost 1000 minutes of football. For a striker that's unacceptable. Give someone else a go.
  • Judging only from the last two televised games, our midfield have been so far from our strikers it is no surprise that we are finding it difficult to score.
  • OK, so we've got an abundance of good midfielders, but only one decent striker. How about sticking Bailey up front?? That would allow more creativity in midfield with Shelvey/Racon + Semedo, Sam and Reid on the wings
  • I think if we start booing the side at half-time that should sort things out. If that fails we should really get behind the team and make it an intimidating ground for the opposition to play at by turning on our own manager.
  • [cite]Posted By: Chunes[/cite]Burton hasn't scored a goal from open play in almost 1000 minutes of football. That's almost 17 hours. For a striker that's unacceptable. Give someone else a go.

    Granted he has been cack of late but the problem is Chunes, in that 1000 minutes of football his service has been truely diabolical. Will it matter who plays there?!
  • edited February 2010
    [cite]Posted By: ValleyGary[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: Chunes[/cite]Burton hasn't scored a goal from open play in almost 1000 minutes of football. That's almost 17 hours. For a striker that's unacceptable. Give someone else a go.

    Granted he has been cack of late but the problem is Chunes, in that 1000 minutes of football his service has been truely diabolical. Will it matter who plays there?!

    True. Plus Burton's the sort of striker who really needs it laid on a plate for him. So if we're not laying it on a plate, maybe throw someone in who can do something for themselves.
  • [cite]Posted By: Chunes[/cite]Burton hasn't scored a goal from open play in almost 1000 minutes of football. For a striker that's unacceptable. Give someone else a go.

    Burton is our only decent striker and the only one who can hold the ball up.

    I wonder how many of the people saying we should go 451, were moaning that we should go 442 earlier on in the season when we went through a tricky patch as the 451 got found out.

    For what it's worth i think we have 2 home games against supposedly weaker opposition. We should be going 442 with 2 wingers (sam and reid) and attacking them.
  • How do we turn it around ?

    Only the players and Parky can do that and I hope they've taken a long hard look at themselves (and been made to watch Mondays garbage again) in the last few days. Sit them down, make them watch the Back to the Valley/Centenery DVD and show them what this club really means to an awful lot of people (who incidentally pay their mainly over-inflated wages)

    Basically they need to all grow some b*llocks, puff out their chests, take the recent (justified) criticism on the chin and go out on Saturday and Tuesday and prove they are worth a shirt and have to guts to fight and go all out for promotion.

    Rant over......and breathe....
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