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Opponents want it more ......why?

edited February 2010 in General Charlton
Having been physically battered and outfought - and tactically out-thought, it's plain to see opponents want it more.

Opponents know that if they allow us any space and time on the ball, we'll string a passing game together.
So they do the bleedin' obvious and get in our faces AND first to every ball.

Let me say that again - opponents are first to every ball

This has been a recurring pattern recently, game after game. If my team mate had his leg broken by some thug in the first minute. it would strengthen my resolve to get the result, a case of, " we're doing it for our player in hospital."

So when will we show that fired up derermination to win every ball, to make one more run, to get the ball into space on the wing......?

Instead we're outfought and out-thought.
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Comments

  • we are just too slow on the ball, need to start playing some 'honest' football, kick and run, shorter passes, move into space etc - but hey what do i know.. :)
  • look what happens when it gets to the wing,dancing over the ball for a minute or a over hit ball,oh and twice in 90 mins a decent cross.
  • Oggy its been that way for maybe 4/5 seasons.


    Why is it we cant find players that want to fight like f**k for this club ?
  • thats all we ask gh.
  • Been like it for years.
  • well said
  • These players dont give a sh!t, collect their wages and dont care about the result.

    Reid puts a cross into their stand and just laughs about it, Sam all smiles at the end of the game.

    They should all be fucked off and be rolling their sleeves up to show some fight, but just like last season they will roll over and be bullied everygame
  • Had high hopes that Parky would stop this obvious underbelly that has been there for the last few years, but nothing seems to have changed. We seem to have players that seem unable to raise their game when it is needed, or unable to play until the pressure is off.

    So so disappointing. Lots of players have been given a chance last few months and not one of them seems to have grasped it.
  • They haven't grasped it and dont seem to want to.

    All just seem happy plodding along, they need a rocket up their arse
  • I get the feeling some of the players (Sodje, Sam, Racon, Semedo in particular) think they are better than they are and think they can try things and get away with them.

    Unfortunately for them, they arent as good as they think they are and any extra 'ability' they do have is being outweighed by desire from the opposition.

    God knows what is going on but there is a definate downward spiral that I can't see anyway of correcting.
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  • [cite]Posted By: charlton_carl[/cite]These players dont give a sh!t, collect their wages and dont care about the result.

    Reid puts a cross into their stand and just laughs about it, Sam all smiles at the end of the game.

    They should all be fucked off and be rolling their sleeves up to show some fight, but just like last season they will roll over and be bullied everygame

    Thank god someone else saw it. I nearly put my foot through the TV when his face appeared infront of me with a nice big grin on it.....says it all really. Our lack of stomach for the fight is embarassing.
  • We have decent enough squad to cake walk a playoff place in this league IMHO. Perhaps we are a bit of a fat cat in not wanting to put in the effort because we think the other players around us will pull us through, well we have at least eight of those fat cats in a Charlton shirt at the moment and we need a good kick up the arse and a few told a few realities.
  • edited February 2010
    [cite]Posted By: Goonerhater[/cite]Oggy its been that way for maybe 4/5 seasons.

    Why is it we cant find players that want to fight like f**k for this club ?

    Spot on. Or is it that we can't find a manager who makes them fight for the club?
  • edited February 2010
    Agree with that (edit: Oggy's opening post), that's the main problem for me. We just don't have those sort of players, we don't have the team to do it back or take control.

    Sam and Reid aren't in the team for that, but in the middle we have Racon who's not that type of player, neither really is Shelvey when he plays. Semedo prefers to hold his position and tidy things up. Bailey works very hard every game but he even looked weak in the tackle a few times, he does slide into tackles but he's not really a physical presence or a proper ball winner.

    Up front Burton was out muscled, Akpo just doesn't have a good touch, Mooney isn't powerful at all. Would have preferred to see McKenzie come on at half time, didn't think Mooney was what we needed.

    I can see effort there but not that bit extra that we need. When we're 1-0 up, passing well, getting our confidence up, it's fine. Go 1-0 down against teams who now know how to handle us and we just can't take control of the game.

    Down the left we miss Youga's drive up the wing. Basey can't do that and Solly is right footed so he can't really try that. Richardson tries it down the right but just seems to take it too far and run into trouble.

    I do think this shows the players aren't as good as suggested. People will say Parky should be dominating this league with these players, but without the right type of players next to them, which we have very few of here, we'll struggle too often against teams like this. Most clubs seem to have learnt it's the way to control games against us, and we're not technically so good that we can just play through it.

    Parky has made poor mistakes but some of the players need to step up as well.
  • thing is its easy for them. They will be on their way if we dont go up (no laughing!) and their money is secure what ever happens. They have no feeling for the club (no differant to Dowie/pardew/Parky) no matter how shit they are someone somewhere will take them on and give them the big shilling.

    Ill be there Saturday i wont boo if we are shit but dont tell me we have to back that shit blah blah blah they HAVE TO SHOW SOME GONADS and give us a performance.
  • Do you know what GH - I get the impression that Parky does care about the club but he is just not a very good manager (like Uncle Les). He seems to be completely devoid of knowing his best team or formation in the past 2 months and it's getting to him and the players.

    In my opinion, and where i'll direct my frustration is at the players who are clearly not playing to their ability or showing the skill that they do have (not a great deal, but enough to win games).
  • I think Scoham post has summed it up for me,spot on!

    Where do we go from here,will be interesting to see the crowd for the home games coming up. We are playing for a play off place I'm afraid & with parky we got no chance!

    McKensie has got to start for the rest of the season as he has some pace for a start & would like to see Bailey tucked in behind him as he can score. As for the other 3 not done anything for too many matches now!
  • Oggy Red i argued exactly the same thing to my dad during the game. My dad is one of the majority that hates seeing these nasty challenges flying in on our own players. But i question, why arent any of our players looking to do that lad who has put basey out for months and why is it always us that the bad challenges seem to happen to. As a team we are just to nice! I just think its the way footballs going these days, players are just quite happy to go out their, prance around and collect their pay cheque.
    Parkinson said in the post match interview and i quote "those are the challenges players want to see cut out of this game", yer, thats just so they can go out onto the pitch, prance around without being hurt and collect their money at the end of the day! Its an absolute joke!
  • [cite]Posted By: cafc_se7[/cite]Oggy Red i argued exactly the same thing to my dad during the game. My dad is one of the majority that hates seeing these nasty challenges flying in on our own players. But i question, why arent any of our players looking to do that lad who has put basey out for months and why is it always us that the bad challenges seem to happen to. As a team we are just to nice! I just think its the way footballs going these days, players are just quite happy to go out their, prance around and collect their pay cheque.
    Parkinson said in the post match interview and i quote "those are the challenges players want to see cut out of this game", yer, thats just so they can go out onto the pitch, prance around without being hurt and collect their money at the end of the day! Its an absolute joke!
    There's a big difference between dangerous, leg breaking tackles, and competing, being first to the ball, which is what Oggy is talking about.
  • we do neither scoham.
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  • I know, but he was suggesting we should be tackling like Blizzard (?) did.
  • We are still being seen as the fancy dans formerly of the Premiership by those out there in League One - they play us as if there is a cup waiting at the end of the game. I think Parky need to be a lot tougher with the players - get them going before the game aka Warnock or O'Neill... NO PASSION on the sidelines = nonchalent players
  • [cite]Posted By: SilentAddick[/cite]We are still being seen as the fancy dans formerly of the Premiership by those out there in League One - they play us as if there is a cup waiting at the end of the game.

    And that's the problem.

    At the beginning of the season, teams were scared stiff of us.

    But not anymore. They know they have to raise their game; they know they have to get in our faces; they know we don't like it up us. Deny us space and time on the ball, harrass, hassle and hustle - and we can't play our own game.

    If they grab a goal from a set piece or breakaway, they'll just defend their 18 yard line, with at times more or less everybody behind the ball - and make it damned difficult for us to break down their numbers. And hope to hit us on the break.

    And they know we're generally hopeless at set pieces.

    Bristol Rovers did a job on us tonight - and yet again every manager in our League watched on telly and saw what to do.
  • exactly oggy everyone knows we have a soft undebelly
  • [cite]Posted By: Oggy Red[/cite]Bristol Rovers did a job on us tonight - and yet again every manager in our League watched on telly and saw what to do.

    Very good summary.

    But I had to listen to Warnock going on about banning a linesman for not giving a corner, and then see that tackle again on Sky, and that makes my blood boil. But as you and a lot of other people said, it did not seem to make their blood boil, that lot on the pitch.
  • [cite]Posted By: cafc_se7[/cite]Oggy Red i argued exactly the same thing to my dad during the game. My dad is one of the majority that hates seeing these nasty challenges flying in on our own players. But i question, why arent any of our players looking to do that lad who has put basey out for months and why is it always us that the bad challenges seem to happen to. As a team we are just to nice! I just think its the way footballs going these days, players are just quite happy to go out their, prance around and collect their pay cheque.
    Parkinson said in the post match interview and i quote "those are the challenges players want to see cut out of this game", yer, thats just so they can go out onto the pitch, prance around without being hurt and collect their money at the end of the day! Its an absolute joke!

    Earlier in the season against Orient Jonjo put in a tackle on one of their players, not leg breaking or anything like that but was then absolutely slated on here by most all saying he should have walked and there's no place for that in Charlton football. Now people are asking for more balls. No one is ever happy on here we want people to show they care yet cane them when they do we want to stop playing the long ball but cane people when they go to get it short from the defence. No one ever knows what they want. They want Racon playing with semedo then when he does they want baily back in the middle. They want Akpo up front with Burton but when he is they say who bad he is. I have never know people to change their mind so much. That wasn't good tonight but it wont get better changing the team week in and week out. Oh and as for the people who say they just take thier money and dont care ..............Oh so wrong i know at least one that will be bloody hurt by that and he wasn't even playing
  • the blame for our slide into wherever it is we are heading is purely down to Parky. He hasn't got a clue. He spends half the season maoning we havn't got a natural wide left player and that Bailey is covering out of position and then when we get one in Reid he doesn't play him and opts for Bailey again. He changes formation every game and doesn't yet know what the best one is. He bombs Shelvey out the squad then starts him at Swindon and then bombs him out the next game. Same with Wagstaff. There is no consistancy. He hasn't yet realised that we don't really need a Semedo in this league, we play Brizzle Rovers and Yeovil not Barca and Real Madrid. He is a luxury we can do without. We need creativity, energy and drive from our midfield not a sit in front of the back four and protect them player who isn't even doing that now. We have no cohesion to our play and don't create anywhere near enough chances. He has brought in Sodje and Mooney and MacKenzie and none of them are going to score anywhere near the required number of goals. He clearly cannot motivate and if thing's are going wrong takes too long to realise it and do something about it. Other than that he's on the right track.
  • No excuse but I think the leg break stunned our lot and they took a long while to recover, if it had been later in the game then I think they would have handled it better.
  • [cite]Posted By: Oggy Red[/cite]Let me say that again -opponents are first to every ball

    For me this is a technical deficiency rather than a lack of fight - the midfielders just never seem to be standing in the right place. You can't accuse Semedo and Bailey of being afraid to make a tackle. They just don't have the required positional and anticipation skills, and are always too deep. If we play 5 in midfield these problems can be overcome to an extent simply because we'd have an extra man in there to mop up loose balls.
  • nolly has been saying it for a while and im not just picking on sam again, but if he shirks another tackle like he did last night he will get seriously hurt
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