[cite]Posted By: LenGlover[/cite]I tell you what if people could time travel some of today's fans would boo Alan Simonsen when his passes didn't go to foot because the likes of dear old Martin Robinson couldn't read him properly yet Simmo was European footballer of the year.
I'm not suggesting JJ is that level before I get misrepresented but there are times when he plays a defence splitting ball and his third division standard colleagues don't read it.
Afraid I agree Len.
As I said before I think JJ would be a better player, playing with better players.
His football brain is far superior to what we have at the moment.
not a formation I would play at home, and not the subs I would have made.
Mooney was ineffective and should have made way for Dickson (perhaps) earlier, but to partner with Burton. Mckenzie seems to be better as a wide playing striker, certainly not a long ball merchant. I can see why we wanted to keep the other Sodje
We were second so many times to the ball it was scary.
was impressed with Sam, and Richardson some of our crossing was excellent, we just failed to connect which is unforgiveable at this level and with that level of service.
While I think Semedo is great I don't see the need for this kind of player at this level, I would play him in the back four and stick with Bailey and Racon/Shelvey in the centre pairing. Our defence goes way too deep and invites the opposition on too.
If at home I would play with Sam and Wagstaff, away I would play with one winger with Shelvey or Racon making the midfield three.
I cant remeber any 'defence splitting balls' that shelvey has tried to play in the the past few matches. I remember a few opportunites last night he could of played a striker in but decided to give it to a supporter in the stand. I really believe that the only reason he is in the side at the moment is because it is January and tbh i would happily let him go. Yesterday, semedo was substitued to accomodate shelvey which ment bailey was playing out of position and we had no one putting a foot in to win the ball.
I know I am going to get slated for the post, and probably get a few 'he is only 17' or 'did you see him at wycombe?' but i really do believe we are a better side without him.
[cite]Posted By: PragueAddick[/cite][quote FFS if you want to single out a single player from last night single out Dickson. 100% poor, not single redeeming moment, and body language that said it all. I've had it with him.
Dickson's come on a sub in five matches, two of which were cameos of 10 minutes, all of which he was required because we were playing badly. I can't remember a single pass into space for him to run onto in any of these matches, which everyone knows is his strength. Instead he's been asked to play with his back to goal, dealing with long balls out from the back. No surprise that he hasn't impressed, but IMHO no worse than Mooney since his return. Dicko has had a few shots at goal by creating his own space, forced several corners with his pace, and created a gilt-edged chance at Wycombe with a header back across goal. He is not the cause of our current problems, nor is he likely to be the solution.
I'd agree with a fair bit of this. Yes he didn't do anything when he came on but we didn't exactly give him much service.
In the game he started at Brentford he looked really lively, and with the one through ball ran onto it and won a penalty, none of our other strikers would've done that. I'm not for one minute saying Dickson is the answer but maybe he needs a couple of starts and some decent service. 10-15 minutes here and there with long balls aimed at him are not going to get us goals.
We could play Messi and Villa up front but if we hit long balls at them we wouldn't score any goals.
Got higher quality footage last night and just zoomed in on the moment Bailey went down prior to the goal, its not 100% clear but it looks like the Orient player raised his arm and elbowed him
after Bailey had a tug on his shirt if I remember rightly - Bailey should learn to get up and play to the whistle though. Lying on the floor isn't going to change the ref's mind - he did get caught with an elbow and it was a foul but I don't think he hit him very hard
Shelvey was awful and racon needs to be back in the middle, bailey on the left. we need more flair in the middle pick a pass out. too many long balls last night
[cite]Posted By: Donvito[/cite]Shelvey was awful and racon needs to be back in the middle, bailey on the left. we need more flair in the middle pick a pass out. too many long balls last night
to be fair most long balls were from Elliot and the defence, not Bailey
[cite]Posted By: cafc_4life[/cite]I cant remeber any 'defence splitting balls' that shelvey has tried to play in the the past few matches. I remember a few opportunites last night he could of played a striker in but decided to give it to a supporter in the stand. I really believe that the only reason he is in the side at the moment is because it is January and tbh i would happily let him go. Yesterday, semedo was substitued to accomodate shelvey which ment bailey was playing out of position and we had no one putting a foot in to win the ball.
I know I am going to get slated for the post, and probably get a few 'he is only 17' or 'did you see him at wycombe?' but i really do believe we are a better side without him.
What about when Shelvey had an open goal to shoot at and Burton decided he'd try and place it with two players on the line instead? They all wasted chances last night and Shelvey was far from our worst player. I also don't buy into the argument that we shouldn't criticise him becuase he's 'only 17' but there were 10 other players out there last night. Bailey was poor as were Sam, Basey Llera.
[cite]Posted By: you tube cafc[/cite]Got higher quality footage last night and just zoomed in on the moment Bailey went down prior to the goal, its not 100% clear but it looks like the Orient player raised his arm and elbowed him
I also thought Bailey was genuinely caught with an elbow last night and so did the 2 people with me. Have you got the link choice?
I think that the reason Dickson was offside so much last night is because of those big gloves he was wearing. Unless he is in his own half, the end of his index finger would always be offside. I also think that the weight of them meant that when he started running, the momentum which he built up because of the gloves meant he just couldn't stop in time. All of which is of course the referee's fault, so it is right that Dickson gave him a good bollocking every time he was offside.
No doubt looking at the TV Footage that Bailey got a whack and it was a raised arm that swang further than the normal stride pattern, in frustration because Bailey was having a pull at his shirt. In the modern game, it's a free kick and a card. 100%.
Commentators were certain at the time.
I also thought it was a penalty, though the arm in the face from Chambers was clearer.
From the Sky footage it looked more like the guy put his hand on Bailey's head and pushed - probably a foul but Bailey's reaction was designed to try and get the referees attention and possibly get the guy sent off.
I don't care who he is or who he plays for. It's embarrasing when player do that and I don't like it.
The point with Bailey was that he rolled around on the floor like he was dying yet had loads of energy the minute they scored to reminstrate with the ref had he used that energy in tracking back they may not have scored
the Shelvey stuff IMO is done to get a rise out of some folks on here,
Yet again only 1 player to rate over a 6 in my book and that is why we lost and why we made such hard work of Hartlepool
Uncle this must be a difficult thread to read mate but (in your opinion) what is Jon Jo`s best position ? is Parky playing him out of his natural position or is he trying to hard/left to exposed ?
i dint think he did bad last night, wasnt good but you can see he is a natural footballer and God lets hope we dont f**k that up.
Quote"Tactically parky was lacking last night and Orients boss got it spot on, We started with two slow strikers, so they played a high defensive line, knowing full well that if we played the ball through the channels we dont have the pace. In the second half Parky brought on to pacy strikers and Orient dropped back so we had to play to strikers feet, Dicko and Mac espececially Dicko do not play with their backs to goal. Parky should have kept Burton on and brought on either Mac or Dicko for Mooney, also he should have brought on Racon for Shelvey. That said I though Waggy put himself about well when he got on and had the urgency that was lacking in the first half. Also I thought the ironic 'cheers' for Mooney when he was subbed were well out of order."
This is spot on as Ben Chorley,well his parents live opposite to me in New Eltham!
Chorley said "Orient knew that the Charlton Strikers were slow so held a high line all game & they knew what Charlton were going to do"
He also wanted to join Charlton but were delaying over wages but went for Llera instead OMG!!!
I feel we have a great squad for this league but we need a left winger or as some people have said play Basey there! Another striker is a must & finally another Centre Back if not because of Parkys tactics I fear the play Offs,the team showed last night we would choke!
I said after the Hartlepool game that if we want to play this formation at home you need Youga in the side as well. Basey is a steady Eddie and is not suited to a formation that demands him to be bombing on. I felt a little sorry for him last night as he was left exposed time and time again.
It didn't happen for Jonjo last night. He is 17 years old and he is going to blow hot and cold. He will blow hotter if we play him in his proper position - in the middle. A free role is a huge responsibility for any player let alone a 17 year old with a lack of experience in the pro game. He is clearly a class act and he needs to be managed correctly to ensure he develops his full potential. For me, once he moved into the centre he tried to get on the ball and he tried to make things happen.
One of my major bug bears last night were our lack of urgency. We picked up no loose balls whatsoever, if the ball broke on the edge of the Orient box no one was there, if there was a 50/50 in the centre of the park we lost it. Time and time again a dropped shoulder or a single well picked pass took 3/4 or our players out of the game. We looked naive at times. For me we descended into panic when we went a goal down. Our experienced players need to be leaders in that situation - Bailey, Dailly et al just didn't step up. On the subject of Dailly I am wondering whether the season is catching up with his 36 year old legs. His level of performance has dropped off in the last few weeks - will no doubt be frowned at by others, but I thought Semedo looked the business there. I'd rest Dailly, drop Llera and have Sodje & Semedo there. This also frees up a central spot for Racon or Shelvey.
I am also sick of getting frustrated by our lack of movement off the ball. Last night our forwards were static and offered nothing to the man on the ball looking to play a pass. Mooney in his first spell with us, was an intelligent off the ball player - made runs into good areas and looked a threat. He has gone backwards. Last night our forwards showed no intelligence, they were continually caught by a basic high line offside trap and simply making a straight run across the penalty box everytime the ball is hoofed forward isn't going to help.
The blame doesn't lay soley with the forwards though. Llera is becoming a liabilty. He either gives away a stupid (usually bookable) foul at some point in the first half, then moves on to slicing the ball everywhere but forward and then continually plays the same right to left long ball to no-one.
We all know we need a new face or two. Money dictates that one is more likely. Its a huge call where strengthen, but if we can I'd do it upfront. Dickson shouldn't be anywhere near our first team. I think the left sided problem is easily solved with McKenzie - he has looked lively everytime he has played there. I don't care if he doesn't want to play there. We pay his wages so he plays where he is told. Racon needs to come back into the side.
[quote][cite]Posted By: Goonerhater[/cite]Uncle this must be a difficult thread to read mate but (in your opinion) what is Jon Jo`s best position ? is Parky playing him out of his natural position or is he trying to hard/left to exposed ?
i dint think he did bad last night, wasnt good but you can see he is a natural footballer and God lets hope we dont f**k that up.[/quote]
To be honest mate i think home games agianst teams like that we dont need semedo in the team jonjo should have been in the middle with bailey and the defence should be 10yards further up the pitch. We would have taken them apart last night if we wasn't so defensive. Sometimes flair and creativity are whats needed and attack is the best form of defence. To many games now we've just sat back and tried to grind out a win by the odd goal, well last night it never worked. We are meant to have the best midfield in the league so lets start using them. I dont mean drop semedo every game but last night it would have surprised them had he changed it like that. We are fast becoming to easy to work out.....Just my opinion
Comments
As I said before I think JJ would be a better player, playing with better players.
His football brain is far superior to what we have at the moment.
Mooney was ineffective and should have made way for Dickson (perhaps) earlier, but to partner with Burton. Mckenzie seems to be better as a wide playing striker, certainly not a long ball merchant. I can see why we wanted to keep the other Sodje
We were second so many times to the ball it was scary.
was impressed with Sam, and Richardson some of our crossing was excellent, we just failed to connect which is unforgiveable at this level and with that level of service.
While I think Semedo is great I don't see the need for this kind of player at this level, I would play him in the back four and stick with Bailey and Racon/Shelvey in the centre pairing. Our defence goes way too deep and invites the opposition on too.
If at home I would play with Sam and Wagstaff, away I would play with one winger with Shelvey or Racon making the midfield three.
I know I am going to get slated for the post, and probably get a few 'he is only 17' or 'did you see him at wycombe?' but i really do believe we are a better side without him.
I'd agree with a fair bit of this. Yes he didn't do anything when he came on but we didn't exactly give him much service.
In the game he started at Brentford he looked really lively, and with the one through ball ran onto it and won a penalty, none of our other strikers would've done that. I'm not for one minute saying Dickson is the answer but maybe he needs a couple of starts and some decent service. 10-15 minutes here and there with long balls aimed at him are not going to get us goals.
We could play Messi and Villa up front but if we hit long balls at them we wouldn't score any goals.
What about when Shelvey had an open goal to shoot at and Burton decided he'd try and place it with two players on the line instead? They all wasted chances last night and Shelvey was far from our worst player. I also don't buy into the argument that we shouldn't criticise him becuase he's 'only 17' but there were 10 other players out there last night. Bailey was poor as were Sam, Basey Llera.
I also thought Bailey was genuinely caught with an elbow last night and so did the 2 people with me. Have you got the link choice?
Commentators were certain at the time.
I also thought it was a penalty, though the arm in the face from Chambers was clearer.
I don't care who he is or who he plays for. It's embarrasing when player do that and I don't like it.
I think he's said plenty already in this one!
the Shelvey stuff IMO is done to get a rise out of some folks on here,
Yet again only 1 player to rate over a 6 in my book and that is why we lost and why we made such hard work of Hartlepool
i dint think he did bad last night, wasnt good but you can see he is a natural footballer and God lets hope we dont f**k that up.
This is spot on as Ben Chorley,well his parents live opposite to me in New Eltham!
Chorley said "Orient knew that the Charlton Strikers were slow so held a high line all game & they knew what Charlton were going to do"
He also wanted to join Charlton but were delaying over wages but went for Llera instead OMG!!!
I feel we have a great squad for this league but we need a left winger or as some people have said play Basey there!
Another striker is a must & finally another Centre Back if not because of Parkys tactics I fear the play Offs,the team showed last night we would choke!
It didn't happen for Jonjo last night. He is 17 years old and he is going to blow hot and cold. He will blow hotter if we play him in his proper position - in the middle. A free role is a huge responsibility for any player let alone a 17 year old with a lack of experience in the pro game. He is clearly a class act and he needs to be managed correctly to ensure he develops his full potential. For me, once he moved into the centre he tried to get on the ball and he tried to make things happen.
One of my major bug bears last night were our lack of urgency. We picked up no loose balls whatsoever, if the ball broke on the edge of the Orient box no one was there, if there was a 50/50 in the centre of the park we lost it. Time and time again a dropped shoulder or a single well picked pass took 3/4 or our players out of the game. We looked naive at times. For me we descended into panic when we went a goal down. Our experienced players need to be leaders in that situation - Bailey, Dailly et al just didn't step up. On the subject of Dailly I am wondering whether the season is catching up with his 36 year old legs. His level of performance has dropped off in the last few weeks - will no doubt be frowned at by others, but I thought Semedo looked the business there. I'd rest Dailly, drop Llera and have Sodje & Semedo there. This also frees up a central spot for Racon or Shelvey.
I am also sick of getting frustrated by our lack of movement off the ball. Last night our forwards were static and offered nothing to the man on the ball looking to play a pass. Mooney in his first spell with us, was an intelligent off the ball player - made runs into good areas and looked a threat. He has gone backwards. Last night our forwards showed no intelligence, they were continually caught by a basic high line offside trap and simply making a straight run across the penalty box everytime the ball is hoofed forward isn't going to help.
The blame doesn't lay soley with the forwards though. Llera is becoming a liabilty. He either gives away a stupid (usually bookable) foul at some point in the first half, then moves on to slicing the ball everywhere but forward and then continually plays the same right to left long ball to no-one.
We all know we need a new face or two. Money dictates that one is more likely. Its a huge call where strengthen, but if we can I'd do it upfront. Dickson shouldn't be anywhere near our first team. I think the left sided problem is easily solved with McKenzie - he has looked lively everytime he has played there. I don't care if he doesn't want to play there. We pay his wages so he plays where he is told. Racon needs to come back into the side.
I'm bored now so I'll stop ranting...
i dint think he did bad last night, wasnt good but you can see he is a natural footballer and God lets hope we dont f**k that up.[/quote]
To be honest mate i think home games agianst teams like that we dont need semedo in the team jonjo should have been in the middle with bailey and the defence should be 10yards further up the pitch. We would have taken them apart last night if we wasn't so defensive. Sometimes flair and creativity are whats needed and attack is the best form of defence. To many games now we've just sat back and tried to grind out a win by the odd goal, well last night it never worked. We are meant to have the best midfield in the league so lets start using them. I dont mean drop semedo every game but last night it would have surprised them had he changed it like that. We are fast becoming to easy to work out.....Just my opinion