[cite]Posted By: Jason1[/cite]Oh, by the way Luke Varney scored two today. What has gone wrong with our management over the last 2-3 years? It seems all the players that have left us are doing ok at the moment. I say we need a manager with experience now!
Yes because Varney has been such a roaring success at Derby and Sheffield Wednesday...
He also scored 2 goals in a game for us against Palace, but it didn't change the fact he was overall a disappointment
I generally don't like jumping on threads slating our own players but I just can't understand what mooneys strength is. Most strikers at this level have something... Good pace, good in the air, good at finishing, good at holding the ball up. I just can't see what he's supposed to be good at.
I agree jason. let's change the manager again. just what we need. it's worked so well for us in the past few seasons. why didn't someone else come up with that idea?
I cannot help but think we need a big striker, so when we hoof it as we always do we have a chance to win it, but also because yesterday there were some great crosses into the box and someone like Holt would have loved that kind of service
[cite]Posted By: blackheathaddick[/cite]I generally don't like jumping on threads slating our own players but I just can't understand what mooneys strength is. Most strikers at this level have something... Good pace, good in the air, good at finishing, good at holding the ball up. I just can't see what he's supposed to be good at.
That's exactly it. He's just a more balanced and all round player than Dickson or McLeod, who have a few strengths but big (and many) weaknesses. He's not the worst at anything but not the best.
Not being the most physical player or a good finsher he needs to make up for it in other ways, and I don't think he's doing that. I guess his strengths and finding good positions and working fairly hard, but we've got other players who are just as good in those areas.
He's not terrible he's just very average at this level and I think we
need a player that offers something more if we want to challenge for automatic promotion. Unfortunately we might have to manage with what we have.
[cite]Posted By: Oggy Red[/cite]Burton and Mooney are both intelligent, hardworking players with a decent touch - and they could score enough goals between them, given enough chances.
Said their mums at a recent whist drive!
I tend to agree about Burton but I haven't seen anything in Mooney to be honest. Yesterday they looked like they had never met before let alone played together. McKenzie looks more of a handful that Mooney/
I still like Mooney. He's got the best touch after Burton and the best off the ball movement. If we're going to play hoof it football for the rest of the season then of course he's not going to shine, we need two big Akpo Sodje style lumps if we're going to play that way. If we want to get the best out of Mooney and Burton then the ball needs to be to feet and we need to be, as a whole team, pushing 10 to 15 yards further up the pitch because neither of them has it in their locker to pick the ball up 50 yards from goal and do it all on their own from that far out. In fact the only one we have who might do that, once in a while, is Dickson.
No matter who we pick or buy, if you stick them in front of a defence and midfield who are intent on hoofing everything through the middle, and then can't make a simple 10 yard pass to feet when they do decide to keep it on the deck, they will struggle.
For me, the root of our problems yesterday was centre midfield. Both Semedo and Bailey were sitting too deep, almost on top of each other, and time after time they took the wrong option with their passing and when they took the right option they screwed up the execution. Bailey in particular had a stinker with his use of the ball.
Within about 10 minutes it was obvious Tranmere came to park the bus and Racon should have been on at half time imo to try and make us a bit more dynamic through the middle of the pitch.
Yeovil boss Terry Skiverton said:" .... the second goal was soft. We'd spoken about Dave Mooney and his movement around the box. He's a good player, so that was very disappointing."
I dont think anyone has doubted his movement since he has been here and the abilty to get into very good positions, the problems has been finsishing a prime example was Stockport away when he could have an hatrick.
And Orient and Tranmere at home, he should have got at least 2 there. Mooney does not inspire me with any confidence when he prepares to shoot. There was one shot in the second half which he completely fluffed and you just knew it would not test the keeper after a rebound or block (I can't exactly remember)
The thing with Mooney, imo, vs Akpodje is that with Mooney in the team we're forced to try and play football, which suits us far better than the hit and hope stuff we seem to resort to whenever Akpodje starts.
Mooney does need to work on his finishing, or it's consistency to be precise, and he could do with strengthening up a bit, but he's a positive influence on our style of play, imo. Give him the ball to feet and he'll control it more often than not (which is the opposite of Akpodje) and he's got a much quicker football brain than Akpo meaning he'll spread possesion quicker and more intelligently than Akpo, which is important if you want to play pass and move football. His movement also helps to make space for others to operate in, which is also important if you want to pass it around. Akpo has his strengths but Mooney is much better suited to the style of play we should be trying to adopt.
The thing I like most of all about him though is that he looks like he knows what a Striker should be doing. Sure it doesn't always come off but you get the sense he understands the requirements of his position. Akpo is yet to give me that sense, but there's time yet. Of course, being impressed by that is as much a sign of how sh*t some of our strikers have been recently but it's still to Mooney's credit that he's not as clueless as his predecessors.
[cite]Posted By: D_F_T[/cite]Can't believe this post started with a lookalike!
Mooney still has to prove himself, in my opinion he is too lightweight and gets pushed off the ball all too easily.
Agreed. For me, he hasn't looked the same player since he came back from the injury. In his first spell he made a number of intelligent runs during games, stretched the oppo's back four and looked a real threat.
Since then he has looked light-weight and half a yard short of pace.
I accept what others have said about him having a footballers brain, just wish someone would feed him a couple of meat and tattie pies and get him in the gym.
IMHO he also tries to compensate for his lack of strength by looking for free-kicks. He goes down very easily. Also please please stop the deliberate handballs. 2-3 times on Saturday.
[cite]Posted By: Exiled_Addick[/cite]The thing with Mooney, imo, vs Akpodje is that with Mooney in the team we're forced to try and play football, which suits us far better than the hit and hope stuff we seem to resort to whenever Akpodje starts.
Mooney does need to work on his finishing, or it's consistency to be precise, and he could do with strengthening up a bit, but he's a positive influence on our style of play, imo. Give him the ball to feet and he'll control it more often than not (which is the opposite of Akpodje) and he's got a much quicker football brain than Akpo meaning he'll spread possesion quicker and more intelligently than Akpo, which is important if you want to play pass and move football. His movement also helps to make space for others to operate in, which is also important if you want to pass it around. Akpo has his strengths but Mooney is much better suited to the style of play we should be trying to adopt.
The thing I like most of all about him though is that he looks like he knows what a Striker should be doing. Sure it doesn't always come off but you get the sense he understands the requirements of his position. Akpo is yet to give me that sense, but there's time yet. Of course, being impressed by that is as much a sign of how sh*t some of our strikers have been recently but it's still to Mooney's credit that he's not as clueless as his predecessors.
Pretty spot on assessment there exiled, i agree with you totally
Interesting to see when he scroed he ran over to celebrate with McKenzie on the bench...wondered why....not arguing with it cause it looks good from a team morale point of view but just wondered if anyone knew the reason why...
Exiled sums it up well, pretty much what I think of Mooney. The fact that Mooney's finishing is inconsistent and he lacks strengh is why he's only a League One player. It doesn't mean he's not good enough, we won't get players that have no major weaknesses while we are in this league. Off form and in a physical game he can struggle, but that's where McKenzie or Akpo can come in.
What's worse about hoofing it up to Akpo is he's not actually that good in the air for his size.
I wouldn't mind if he was signed full-time in the summer and then we could work on the one or two defects in his game. He gets in good positions and reads the game well, but needs to be stronger and definitely to find a bit more acceleration over the first couple of yards. In the box that makes the difference between carving out a few chances and not quite getting there. When the chances he creates are better, so will his conversion rate improve.
Exiled has got it spot on. Mooney is a League One forward, he won't score every chance that comes to him. Any forward able to do that in this league would soon be playing in the Premiership.
Nail on head by Exiled. Mooney isn't a great player, but from what I've seen he is superior to Akpo. I didn't go to the Yeovil game, but apart from running about a lot against Swindon, I haven't seen Akpo do much at all. Mooney is too lightweight but that can be worked on. Akpo's weak points will be far harder to eradicate. That said, they can probably both do a job at this level. We've probably all been a bit too critical of the forwards recently and the midfield must shoulder some of the responsibility for that. There are very few forwards (if any) in League 1 who can score a goal out of absolutely nothing.
[cite]Posted By: BlackForestReds[/cite]I wouldn't mind if he was signed full-time in the summer and then we could work on the one or two defects in his game. He gets in good positions and reads the game well, but needs to be stronger and definitely to find a bit more acceleration over the first couple of yards. In the box that makes the difference between carving out a few chances and not quite getting there. When the chances he creates are better, so will his conversion rate improve.
On the whole I see more plusses than minuses.
Does he have that sort of room for improvement though? I don't see him getting significantly stronger or quicker at his age. If he was 18/19 then maybe, but he's not.
That bump on the noggin must have woken him up because I thought he had a fantastic game on Saturday, maybe he lost his memory and they told him he is teddy sherringham..
In the summer, Basey, Burton and Elliot all looked as though they worked on their fitness and weight. If we signed Mooney maybe there would be time in the summer for Mooney to do the opposite and bulk up a little and work on his strength?
Oh I'm sure he can improve it slightly, but it's always going to be a weaker area of his game. Most important thing is playing to his strengths and leave the battling against big centre backs to other players, and not hoof long balls up to him.
He's 25 and I think only into his second season after signing from Cork, so I'd suggest that he's a late developer. Plus he scored a few goals for Norwich last season on loan - well three in 8 games and scored 4 in 12 for Reading before coming on loan this season and a couple in the League Cup so to call him a L1 player is a bit unfair. Essentially though I think he needs to work hard on his strength, speed over the first couple of yards and if he can master that he could make a decent centre-forward.
[cite]Posted By: BlackForestReds[/cite]I wouldn't mind if he was signed full-time in the summer and then we could work on the one or two defects in his game. He gets in good positions and reads the game well, but needs to be stronger and definitely to find a bit more acceleration over the first couple of yards. In the box that makes the difference between carving out a few chances and not quite getting there. When the chances he creates are better, so will his conversion rate improve.
On the whole I see more plusses than minuses.
Does he have that sort of room for improvement though? I don't see him getting significantly stronger or quicker at his age. If he was 18/19 then maybe, but he's not.
I'm not sure he could get quicker, but surely he can get a bit stronger? I know these are somewhat extreme examples but look at Cristiano Ronaldo, James Milner and Andy Murray. If Sunderland can make Andy Reid stop eating pies, I'm sure we can get Mooney down the gym.
[cite]Posted By: BlackForestReds[/cite]I wouldn't mind if he was signed full-time in the summer and then we could work on the one or two defects in his game. He gets in good positions and reads the game well, but needs to be stronger and definitely to find a bit more acceleration over the first couple of yards. In the box that makes the difference between carving out a few chances and not quite getting there. When the chances he creates are better, so will his conversion rate improve.
On the whole I see more plusses than minuses.
Does he have that sort of room for improvement though? I don't see him getting significantly stronger or quicker at his age. If he was 18/19 then maybe, but he's not.
My understanding is that he is "an Irish Chris Dickson" in that he got spotted playing League of Ireland stuff which equates to our non-league roughly.
If that is correct he may not have previously had the opportunity or advice to put the hours in with the weights to build up a bit of muscle and strength.
He'll never be a Premiership player but he is decent at this level and, if he can improve his physical attributes, has the footballing inteligence and movement to do a job in the Championship. As I've said before Reading are struggling so I'm surprised they released him since I'm not aware they are under any financial pressures. That said some would say Moo2 is good enough to play at our level or better yet is left out.
I guess different managers fancy (in a footballing sense!) different players.
Assuming Mckenzie is too crocked to start then he's easily our best partner for Deon.
He isn't a world beater but that's why he has been sent on loan by a struggling Championship club. Idealy we would want someone with pace to play off Deon but the only two players in that mould were Dickson and McLeod and they clearly were not good enough to contribue anything else to the team.
He isn't strong or quick but at least knows how to play his position.
As for Akpo, I missed the Swindon and Yeovil games and have been distincly underwhelmed in the games I have seen him in.
Comments
Yes because Varney has been such a roaring success at Derby and Sheffield Wednesday...
He also scored 2 goals in a game for us against Palace, but it didn't change the fact he was overall a disappointment
"Its like watching a pale version of Marcus Bent, but at third division level"
28 years I've been going, seen some rubbish up front (mainly in the last 2-3 years), this guy has it all.
Not being the most physical player or a good finsher he needs to make up for it in other ways, and I don't think he's doing that. I guess his strengths and finding good positions and working fairly hard, but we've got other players who are just as good in those areas.
He's not terrible he's just very average at this level and I think we
need a player that offers something more if we want to challenge for automatic promotion. Unfortunately we might have to manage with what we have.
Said their mums at a recent whist drive!
I tend to agree about Burton but I haven't seen anything in Mooney to be honest. Yesterday they looked like they had never met before let alone played together. McKenzie looks more of a handful that Mooney/
No matter who we pick or buy, if you stick them in front of a defence and midfield who are intent on hoofing everything through the middle, and then can't make a simple 10 yard pass to feet when they do decide to keep it on the deck, they will struggle.
For me, the root of our problems yesterday was centre midfield. Both Semedo and Bailey were sitting too deep, almost on top of each other, and time after time they took the wrong option with their passing and when they took the right option they screwed up the execution. Bailey in particular had a stinker with his use of the ball.
Within about 10 minutes it was obvious Tranmere came to park the bus and Racon should have been on at half time imo to try and make us a bit more dynamic through the middle of the pitch.
http://www.cafc.co.uk/newsview.ink?nid=35653
Mooney does need to work on his finishing, or it's consistency to be precise, and he could do with strengthening up a bit, but he's a positive influence on our style of play, imo. Give him the ball to feet and he'll control it more often than not (which is the opposite of Akpodje) and he's got a much quicker football brain than Akpo meaning he'll spread possesion quicker and more intelligently than Akpo, which is important if you want to play pass and move football. His movement also helps to make space for others to operate in, which is also important if you want to pass it around. Akpo has his strengths but Mooney is much better suited to the style of play we should be trying to adopt.
The thing I like most of all about him though is that he looks like he knows what a Striker should be doing. Sure it doesn't always come off but you get the sense he understands the requirements of his position. Akpo is yet to give me that sense, but there's time yet. Of course, being impressed by that is as much a sign of how sh*t some of our strikers have been recently but it's still to Mooney's credit that he's not as clueless as his predecessors.
Mooney still has to prove himself, in my opinion he is too lightweight and gets pushed off the ball all too easily.
Agreed. For me, he hasn't looked the same player since he came back from the injury. In his first spell he made a number of intelligent runs during games, stretched the oppo's back four and looked a real threat.
Since then he has looked light-weight and half a yard short of pace.
I accept what others have said about him having a footballers brain, just wish someone would feed him a couple of meat and tattie pies and get him in the gym.
IMHO he also tries to compensate for his lack of strength by looking for free-kicks. He goes down very easily. Also please please stop the deliberate handballs. 2-3 times on Saturday.
Pretty spot on assessment there exiled, i agree with you totally
What's worse about hoofing it up to Akpo is he's not actually that good in the air for his size.
On the whole I see more plusses than minuses.
I'm not sure he could get quicker, but surely he can get a bit stronger? I know these are somewhat extreme examples but look at Cristiano Ronaldo, James Milner and Andy Murray. If Sunderland can make Andy Reid stop eating pies, I'm sure we can get Mooney down the gym.
My understanding is that he is "an Irish Chris Dickson" in that he got spotted playing League of Ireland stuff which equates to our non-league roughly.
If that is correct he may not have previously had the opportunity or advice to put the hours in with the weights to build up a bit of muscle and strength.
He'll never be a Premiership player but he is decent at this level and, if he can improve his physical attributes, has the footballing inteligence and movement to do a job in the Championship. As I've said before Reading are struggling so I'm surprised they released him since I'm not aware they are under any financial pressures. That said some would say Moo2 is good enough to play at our level or better yet is left out.
I guess different managers fancy (in a footballing sense!) different players.
He isn't a world beater but that's why he has been sent on loan by a struggling Championship club. Idealy we would want someone with pace to play off Deon but the only two players in that mould were Dickson and McLeod and they clearly were not good enough to contribue anything else to the team.
He isn't strong or quick but at least knows how to play his position.
As for Akpo, I missed the Swindon and Yeovil games and have been distincly underwhelmed in the games I have seen him in.