I don't know how anyone can call Bailey a cheat for anything he did against Orient.
He was elbowed in the face, which is a foul. Had he gone down without being touched and tried to influence the referee into giving a free-kick and maybe cautioning/sending-off the Orient player then that would be cheating. However contact was made with his face and therefore he wasn't cheating.
If you want to criticise him it should be for not playing to the whistle and for going down when Orient were attacking.
And hasnt he just come out and said no additional players required so that scraps chance of new left winger and decent striker which in your view would make us a much better team.
I said "much better", as in significantly better. He might have got another 5 or 6 points but I don't see how any manager would have a much, much better record. And as said, it's easy to see who could have done a good job once they've shown it elsewhere, but it's always a risk. Parky is doing a good job now but there's a lot of room for improvement and still a long way to go.
He actually said if we can't sign anyone we will be ok and get on with it. Pretty obvious to every we could ideally do with 2 or 3 new players.
[cite]Posted By: nth london addick[/cite]Agreed SA but he shouldnt do it,
Ronaldo was Man yoos best player,
Van Persie
Drgoba, Anelka, Steve G all great players who dive around like they have been shot uncalled for and totally annoying for teams they play against i dont like them sort of players and i dont like it at the club i support if more fans moaned about their own players maybe they wouldnt be so inclined to do it
The difference is that I doubt Man U fans moaned about Ronaldo rolling around. Because he was THEIR OWN player, and fans tend to support those. Not all though it seems.
But there's a difference between calling it as you see it, and then acting on it.
I would agree that Bailey play-acted. But I wouldn't slate him for it online, or start a thread called 'Nicky Bailey's A Cheat - Discuss', because he is our captain, our best player, and the one player that looks like he gives a shit when he plays.
He deserves more than all this from his own fans, imo.
i'm sure some man utd fans would have called him a diving cheatin c**t but also the best footballer in the world .....and they sung his name to high heaven ....
and on a much smaller scale and a with a lot less passion the charlton fans sing nicky baileys name but doesn't stop them thinking he's a bit of a fool with his play acting and that he is our best player ....
we're only discussing his activites on the field of play on a website , we're not boo hissing him at the game ... i guess some people don't like the truth when it comes to our luvverly jubbly charlton
[cite]Posted By: Si[/cite]But there's a difference between calling it as you see it, and then acting on it.
I would agree that Bailey play-acted. But I wouldn't slate him for it online, or start a thread called 'Nicky Bailey's A Cheat - Discuss', because he is our captain, our best player, and the one player that looks like he gives a shit when he plays.
He deserves more than all this from his own fans, imo.
[cite]Posted By: Si[/cite]But there's a difference between calling it as you see it, and then acting on it.
I would agree that Bailey play-acted. But I wouldn't slate him for it online, or start a thread called 'Nicky Bailey's A Cheat - Discuss', because he is our captain, our best player, and the one player that looks like he gives a shit when he plays.
He deserves more than all this from his own fans, imo.
[cite]Posted By: oohaahmortimer[/cite]i'm sure some man utd fans would have called him a diving cheatin c**t but also the best footballer in the world .....and they sung his name to high heaven ....
and on a much smaller scale and a with a lot less passion the charlton fans sing nicky baileys name but doesn't stop them thinking he's a bit of a fool with his play acting and that he is our best player ....
we're only discussing his activites on the field of play on a website , we're not boo hissing him at the game ... i guess some people don't like the truth when it comes to our luvverly jubbly charlton
spot on ooh ahh seems like you can only come on here and say we are great and not be critical of anyone would be a boring place if that is how it turnt out
[cite]
spot on ooh ahh seems like you can only come on here and say we are great and not be critical of anyone would be a boring place if that is how it turnt out
I don't what it is NLA but it's the way you seem to take great pleasure in having a go at Nicky in particular. Perhaps I am misreading your comments but that's how you come across (to me at least).
[cite]Posted By: Si[/cite]But there's a difference between calling it as you see it, and then acting on it.
I would agree that Bailey play-acted. But I wouldn't slate him for it online, or start a thread called 'Nicky Bailey's A Cheat - Discuss', because he is our captain, our best player, and the one player that looks like he gives a shit when he plays.
He deserves more than all this from his own fans, imo.
The question is does it bring anything to our team? I imagine sometimes it's yes and sometimes (seemingly like the other night) no, and when it's no it's worth asking whether he's been taking it too far. Bailey is an excellent player, and would still be an excellent player without excessive play-acting. If people feel it's detrimental to the team at times then they're entitled to be a little critical of him.
Whether he's a good footballer is a separate issue, as I doubt there's a single Charlton fan who doesn't hugely value his footballing role in the side. If some feel he would be even better without the play-acting then it's something worth debating.
[cite]Posted By: ISawLeaburnScore[/cite]Best player.
Leader.
Most important part of our team.
Discuss.
Yep, but besides that and his goals, what does he bring to the team?
I hope that no one from the club sees this thread.
Where has anyone said he isn't an essential part of the team?
I haven't seen enough games this season to make a judgement, but I'm just confused by this attitude that any comment on his playacting must be at the same time an attack on his ability and captaincy - both of which are unquestioned.
I agree that a heavyhanded 'slating' of him is unfair, but equally if (as some seem to think) his playacting is getting to an extent that it's not in the team's best interests, can someone not kind of wish that he'd tone it down a bit? You don't have to wildly extrapolate that into fans wanting him out of the team.
I abhor time wasting and 'dropping dead' or play acting is a time wasting ploy - the Egyptians were all doing this and if a Charlton player does this then he deserves the title of this thread no question about that!
Have anyone seriously seen a referee who waved play on take action afterwards and give a foul - ..... EXACTLY that - Dazzler got it spot on - PLAY TO THE WHISTLE.
I remember Ronaldo showboating by the line when he was 17 or thereabouts in front of the East Stand and good old Kish gave him a clattering after winning the ball - he laid there writhing and we were giving him large - calling him all the names under the sun and, guess what - Roy Keane, he of nonsense, came running over and shouted at Ronaldo - GET THE FXXX UP! - some of us cheered Roy!
Time has moved on but if Bailey does this - I, for one, will not hesitate to shout Roy's words at him!
[cite]Posted By: SilentAddick[/cite]I abhor time wasting and 'dropping dead' or play acting is a time wasting ploy - the Egyptians were all doing this and if a Charlton player does this then he deserves the title of this thread no question about that!
Have anyone seriously seen a referee who waved play on take action afterwards and give a foul - ..... EXACTLY that - Dazzler got it spot on - PLAY TO THE WHISTLE.
I remember Ronaldo showboating by the line when he was 17 or thereabouts in front of the East Stand and good old Kish gave him a clattering after winning the ball - he laid there writhing and we were giving him large - calling him all the names under the sun and, guess what - Roy Keane, he of nonsense, came running over and shouted at Ronaldo - GET THE FXXX UP! - some of us cheered Roy!
Time has moved on but if Bailey does this - I, for one, will not hesitate to shout Roy's words at him!
I think many folk are annoyed at the clearly inflamatory title of the thread, posted by someone who deliberately set out to provoke an umwelcome reaction to their post.
IMHO it was mean't to be a red rag to a bull....the same question could have been asked without such a controversial subject header and use of the word 'cheat' re our best player and captain.
There's very very few posters (if any), who would have used those words....you have to wonder what their remit was as much as the subject matter itself.
[cite]Posted By: Sussex_Addick[/cite]The question is does it bring anything to our team? I imagine sometimes it's yes and sometimes (seemingly like the other night) no, and when it's no it's worth asking whether he's been taking it too far. Bailey is an excellent player, and would still be an excellent player without excessive play-acting. If people feel it's detrimental to the team at times then they're entitled to be a little critical of him.
Whether he's a good footballer is a separate issue, as I doubt there's a single Charlton fan who doesn't hugely value his footballing role in the side. If some feel he would be even better without the play-acting then it's something worth debating.
I agree, but as you say here (and confirm in your next post), there is 'a little critical', and there is 'excessive slating', and then, there is this thread.
I'm not saying don't talk about it (like other posters seem to like suggesting is my point, when it clearly isn't), but as SoundAsa rightly says, its the whole nature of this thread. There's another thread about it too, that one is less harsh than this, so I do wonder why it has another extremist older brother.
You're right, occasionally his play acting helps the team, sometimes it doesn't. So why the over-reaction when it doesn't?
But I disagree that him being a 'good footballer' is a separate issue. It's a part of his game, like his combativeness, his will-to-win, and his general attitude on a pitch. He's a package; you can't pick and choose which parts of him you want. His play-acting, arguing with, and trying to influence refs, comes from the same place as his passion to win 50/50s and his desire to win at all costs. I like those qualities, and wouldn't sacrifice one aspect of it is it meant possibly sacrificing some other vital aspects.
So the two issues I have is people expecting to be able to pick and choose the best, and remove the worst qualities of a player.
And also the fact that, when I completely agree everyone (including Bailey) is open for criticism, the nature of it on here is ridiculous. The fact you emphasise 'little critical' in your post suggests that you agree that some of the criticism on here is excessive.
I find it all a little embarrassing if I'm honest. And if I was him and saw this thread, it would be like a punch in the stomach. And would question (even if only subconsciously) my commitment to these fans.
"CommentAuthorISawLeaburnScore CommentTime15 hours ago quote# 74
Best player.
Leader.
Most important part of our team.
Discuss. "
Precisely. Lead by example an dont cheat/ play act.
Im astounded that people are getting slated for valid criticism. If he dives deliberately it's cheating. What is this notion that professional footballers are above criticism?
Christ they get paid in a week what most of us earn in six months and we are the ones who fund it. We are paying their wages for being (mediocre) football players and therefore can criticise them if they dont perform to warrant that or dive about like theyve been shot.
If they arent man enough to take the criticism (if warranted) then go and work in Tescos.
[cite]Posted By: RodneyCharltonTrotta[/cite]"CommentAuthorISawLeaburnScore CommentTime15 hours ago quote# 74
Best player.
Leader.
Most important part of our team.
Discuss. "
Precisely. Lead by example an dont cheat/ play act.
Im astounded that people are getting slated for valid criticism. If he dives deliberately it's cheating. What is this notion that professional footballers are above criticism?
Christ they get paid in a week what most of us earn in six months and we are the ones who fund it. We are paying their wages for being (mediocre) football players and therefore can criticise them if they dont perform to warrant that or dive about like theyve been shot.
If they arent man enough to take the criticism (if warranted) then go and work in Tescos.
Sorry, I have a problem with this 'diving' argument, considering diving is not what he does. Against Southend and Orient, he was fouled. We all agree on that I thought. The ref just didn't see or give it. What bailey does is overacts to try and force the ref to give the foul or stop play. He's been successful in the past; if he was successful on Monday he would have prevented a goal. Fact. The argument that if he had got straight up and helped the defence he would have prevented the goal is debateable, unlikely imo, and certainly not fact.
Ive seen him dive at least once and go over easy (ooh matron) a few times with my own eyes and its something i hate about modern players as id be ashamed to look people in the face if fell over and rolled round like a toddler having a tantrum.
Not slating bailey personally and i rate him and his comitment appears better than most but at the same time no player should be above criticism. Well apart from George Best and hes dead now.
[cite]Posted By: RodneyCharltonTrotta[/cite]Ive seen him dive at least once and go over easy (ooh matron) a few times with my own eyes and its something i hate about modern players as id be ashamed to look people in the face if fell over and rolled round like a toddler having a tantrum.
Not slating bailey personally and i rate him and his comitment appears better than most but at the same time no player should be above criticism. Well apart from George Best and hes dead now.
Aye George Best was a shining example - rem the hack he got from Harris of Chelsea - he shrugged it off and went on to go by two players and scored - what a goal - if it was Bailey.....
[cite]Posted By: Riscardo[/cite]Sir Alex has used the elbow on Nicky Bailey as an example as to how shite the procedures are in place re Ferdinand and his ban .....
I thought you were joking, but you're not. Why was he watching the game?!
United were unavailable to confirm to BBC Sport what their next move would be, but manager Sir Alex Ferguson revealed his displeasure with the disciplinary processes being used by the game's governing body.
"We have to decide whether to appeal because there are conflicting ways in how these decisions are being viewed," he said.
"I watched the game between Leyton Orient and Charlton on Monday and there was an elbow on the Charlton player three times as he was running with the ball.
"But nothing has happened with that. There is a lot of confusion there, although we accept that for (Saturday), Rio is banned."
Comments
He was elbowed in the face, which is a foul. Had he gone down without being touched and tried to influence the referee into giving a free-kick and maybe cautioning/sending-off the Orient player then that would be cheating. However contact was made with his face and therefore he wasn't cheating.
If you want to criticise him it should be for not playing to the whistle and for going down when Orient were attacking.
I hope not Chaz.
I said "much better", as in significantly better. He might have got another 5 or 6 points but I don't see how any manager would have a much, much better record. And as said, it's easy to see who could have done a good job once they've shown it elsewhere, but it's always a risk. Parky is doing a good job now but there's a lot of room for improvement and still a long way to go.
He actually said if we can't sign anyone we will be ok and get on with it. Pretty obvious to every we could ideally do with 2 or 3 new players.
I would agree that Bailey play-acted. But I wouldn't slate him for it online, or start a thread called 'Nicky Bailey's A Cheat - Discuss', because he is our captain, our best player, and the one player that looks like he gives a shit when he plays.
He deserves more than all this from his own fans, imo.
and on a much smaller scale and a with a lot less passion the charlton fans sing nicky baileys name but doesn't stop them thinking he's a bit of a fool with his play acting and that he is our best player ....
we're only discussing his activites on the field of play on a website , we're not boo hissing him at the game ... i guess some people don't like the truth when it comes to our luvverly jubbly charlton
Spot on Si.
Perhaps it's because he's ginger :-)
spot on ooh ahh seems like you can only come on here and say we are great and not be critical of anyone would be a boring place if that is how it turnt out
I don't what it is NLA but it's the way you seem to take great pleasure in having a go at Nicky in particular. Perhaps I am misreading your comments but that's how you come across (to me at least).
The question is does it bring anything to our team? I imagine sometimes it's yes and sometimes (seemingly like the other night) no, and when it's no it's worth asking whether he's been taking it too far. Bailey is an excellent player, and would still be an excellent player without excessive play-acting. If people feel it's detrimental to the team at times then they're entitled to be a little critical of him.
Whether he's a good footballer is a separate issue, as I doubt there's a single Charlton fan who doesn't hugely value his footballing role in the side. If some feel he would be even better without the play-acting then it's something worth debating.
Now i know why i came to this site less and less
Leader.
Most important part of our team.
Discuss.
Yep, but besides that and his goals, what does he bring to the team?
I hope that no one from the club sees this thread.
Where has anyone said he isn't an essential part of the team?
I haven't seen enough games this season to make a judgement, but I'm just confused by this attitude that any comment on his playacting must be at the same time an attack on his ability and captaincy - both of which are unquestioned.
I agree that a heavyhanded 'slating' of him is unfair, but equally if (as some seem to think) his playacting is getting to an extent that it's not in the team's best interests, can someone not kind of wish that he'd tone it down a bit? You don't have to wildly extrapolate that into fans wanting him out of the team.
aside from absolutely everything... gingerness
Have anyone seriously seen a referee who waved play on take action afterwards and give a foul - ..... EXACTLY that - Dazzler got it spot on - PLAY TO THE WHISTLE.
I remember Ronaldo showboating by the line when he was 17 or thereabouts in front of the East Stand and good old Kish gave him a clattering after winning the ball - he laid there writhing and we were giving him large - calling him all the names under the sun and, guess what - Roy Keane, he of nonsense, came running over and shouted at Ronaldo - GET THE FXXX UP! - some of us cheered Roy!
Time has moved on but if Bailey does this - I, for one, will not hesitate to shout Roy's words at him!
Silently........
;-)
Thought so.
ISLS - No he is a good player but his antics is tiresome and affects the rest of the team - a captain gotta lead by example..
IMHO it was mean't to be a red rag to a bull....the same question could have been asked without such a controversial subject header and use of the word 'cheat' re our best player and captain.
There's very very few posters (if any), who would have used those words....you have to wonder what their remit was as much as the subject matter itself.
I'm not saying don't talk about it (like other posters seem to like suggesting is my point, when it clearly isn't), but as SoundAsa rightly says, its the whole nature of this thread. There's another thread about it too, that one is less harsh than this, so I do wonder why it has another extremist older brother.
You're right, occasionally his play acting helps the team, sometimes it doesn't. So why the over-reaction when it doesn't?
But I disagree that him being a 'good footballer' is a separate issue. It's a part of his game, like his combativeness, his will-to-win, and his general attitude on a pitch. He's a package; you can't pick and choose which parts of him you want. His play-acting, arguing with, and trying to influence refs, comes from the same place as his passion to win 50/50s and his desire to win at all costs. I like those qualities, and wouldn't sacrifice one aspect of it is it meant possibly sacrificing some other vital aspects.
So the two issues I have is people expecting to be able to pick and choose the best, and remove the worst qualities of a player.
And also the fact that, when I completely agree everyone (including Bailey) is open for criticism, the nature of it on here is ridiculous. The fact you emphasise 'little critical' in your post suggests that you agree that some of the criticism on here is excessive.
I find it all a little embarrassing if I'm honest. And if I was him and saw this thread, it would be like a punch in the stomach. And would question (even if only subconsciously) my commitment to these fans.
Best player.
Leader.
Most important part of our team.
Discuss. "
Precisely. Lead by example an dont cheat/ play act.
Im astounded that people are getting slated for valid criticism. If he dives deliberately it's cheating. What is this notion that professional footballers are above criticism?
Christ they get paid in a week what most of us earn in six months and we are the ones who fund it. We are paying their wages for being (mediocre) football players and therefore can criticise them if they dont perform to warrant that or dive about like theyve been shot.
If they arent man enough to take the criticism (if warranted) then go and work in Tescos.
Not slating bailey personally and i rate him and his comitment appears better than most but at the same time no player should be above criticism. Well apart from George Best and hes dead now.
Aye George Best was a shining example - rem the hack he got from Harris of Chelsea - he shrugged it off and went on to go by two players and scored - what a goal - if it was Bailey.....
United were unavailable to confirm to BBC Sport what their next move would be, but manager Sir Alex Ferguson revealed his displeasure with the disciplinary processes being used by the game's governing body.
"We have to decide whether to appeal because there are conflicting ways in how these decisions are being viewed," he said.
"I watched the game between Leyton Orient and Charlton on Monday and there was an elbow on the Charlton player three times as he was running with the ball.
"But nothing has happened with that. There is a lot of confusion there, although we accept that for (Saturday), Rio is banned."