[quote][cite]Posted By: aliwibble[/cite]My word Dave, don't you look svelte there! The years have not been kind, have they? (Not that I've got any room to talk, mind you)[/quote]
My favourite two memories of Mark Mansfield (apart from the play off final commentary) -
Newcastle at home, 2-2, ending our 8 game losing streak "Pringle - can he score? HE CAN!!!!!!"
Derby away later that season, 1nil up from Andy Hunt, soaking up some late pressure, break away and Pringle gets the ball on the halfway line but sort of in behind the defence. Mansfield gets all excited shouting "PRINGLE, HES IN ON GOAL" - then calms himself down immediately "but hes got a long way to go though" then Pringle gets to the box and slots it under the keeper "ITS TWO NIL TO CHARLTON!!!".
[cite]Posted By: aliwibble[/cite]My word Dave, don't you look svelte there! The years have not been kind, have they? (Not that I've got any room to talk, mind you)
[cite]Posted By: ken from bexley[/cite]When you hark back to the days of Mark, and what we currently have on the radio..... you realise how far Chalton have fallen from grace.
To be honest, i think you are completely wrong Ken (i'll give my reasons).
What 'Charlton' currently lack are individuals prepared to take things further. Radio, fanzines, supporters clubs etc. All these things were well in their strengths long before we rose to the Premiership. Whether it was the Premiership or the Internet that killed off those aspects, or the desire for people to get further involved with things when they can just say their bit on places like here, i really don't know.
Look at the Valley Party articles. Look at the ages of most of the people involved, a huge number between 20-35. Are those people in that age bracket now prepared to stand up, roll their sleeves up and put themselves forward for things ? I think no, and the poor, muted attempts to form a very justifiable Supporters Trust is a decent example that equally lends evidence to suggest otherwise.
On a smaller comparison, take this site for example. We constantly make clear this is any members platform, where you can write articles, organise events etc. We have a fantastic outlet that is regularly visited by a decent-sized cross-section of our support. We'd love for more people to get involved and take responsibility and add different aspects to the site, and have always stressed that right from the start. But there has never really been much interest. I don't blame people for that, its a resource to be used as frequently and as infrequently as anyone likes, but there really is not much desire for people to take on any form or responsibility, big or small, as much as their was say 20 years ago.
AFKABartram..... Do not normally disagree with you,but on this occassion I think you are not correct. The shambles that resembles the radio coverage on Charlton, namely bbc is both poor and in my opinion, both in content and presentation. Not a patch on the millinimeum radio or Time FM as was!. I say that having worked at the BBC till April for 8 years. Let me assure you that on many an occassion I approached the bbc to get the internet coverage improved, and rang Charlton to get the club to participate in the Charlton live show on a Sunday night. In fact I rang up Suzy sausage and explained why it would be a good idea to clarify the position. I also remember ringing in to Charlton Live and the facts remain that despite the negative, or some might say correct forecast, Pardew left, and we got relegatted ( I think at the time the guests put there house on it that it would not happen). I was also concerned at the clubs finances and the apparent slide into darkness that we are now in! I thought the club needed to restate it's commitment to the fans, and assure it's fans that the ethos of Charlton was still there and true in spirit. Unfortunatly the station closed before the directors got on to the show.
As we know events have changed things beyond almost recognition to the days of the Prem. I personally discussed Charlton's position with quite a few bbc people, including the then Chairman of the bbc then Micheal Grade. I also discussed with the club the radio coverage not being on the net, and how in my opinion this did not serve the wider community of Charlton. Charlton TV was being introduced although at the time mac users like myself could not use this service!. ( yes I know about parellels). I discussed with the club that I did not think that the coverage was better on bbc London, but was told it was financial and part of a league deal. When we got relegated from the Championship and Emma Jones did the coverage, I went down to the Valley and wrote about this and featured this for the BBC internally. I think we all have our own opinion of Emma, mine has been well stated!. As I stated I worked for the bbc at the time, I do not now. Therfore I am free to comment on these issues which before I felt constrained to do so!. If you have been to the recent NW Kent and Bromley branches of the supoporters club's I have joined these organisations and spoken at every event that I have attended. I appreciate that these events are run by a handful of dedicated people, true fan's who want the best for the club.
I am currently discussing with Charlton a project and hope that in some small way when agreed that it may benefit the club and it's special position that it has with the community, and fan's. I specialise in publicity, and have offered my services for free!.
I am trying to do my small part to help,' not just sitting back and letting others do it'......
Like you Afka I am all for fan participation and involvement, my remarks were about the BBC coverage, and how good in my opinion Marks commentary was .
Things have moved on I am told, I do not share the view that the coverage at the valley is either better in quality or as dedicated as once was. I am sure the reasons at the time were made for financial and strategic reasons!. This is not some later day gripe , but a subject that I have been involved with, albeit as a fan for some time.
If you would like to wisper me I am more than happy to discuss with you the idea, in fact I would be delighted to meet up with a fellow fan. In fact I will buy the first drink!. This is my opinion of the radio coverage, does not mean I am right! just my opinion!
A couple of comments on the topic of Charlton coverage on 'local' radio, writing from the persepective of direct involvement in the 1990s- Mark Mansfield- top-notch commentator and radio journalist. RTM/Millennium/Time FM- an indication of the fragility of 'community' radio finances/management/business strategy
You all probably know that the commentaries used by RTM were 'taken' from the Clubcall feed, using MM's password to access their computer - no payment, no contract - effectively pirate radio, but gaining a good-sized audience, particularly for mid-week away games. The switchboard lit like a Christmas tree between 9.30 and 10.00pm with people who had missed hearing the game phoning in for the score. It became a bit frantic when the commentary feed failed from time to time - trying to dial back into the computer AND answer calls to explain why we were playing music instead! The fact that the radio station is no more speaks volumes for the financial situation. Thamesmead Town were very keen to retain management/ownership, but were running out of dosh, and sadly didn't have the acumen to accept buy-out offers from Rodney Collins' industry contacts, including TKO.
What we have now is endemic to our 'time'- the result of austerity in all corners. There is also the little matter of establishing a legal, contracted and viable arrangement for broadcasting.
I would imagine that the radio rights for football in the third tier are hardly those that give Messrs Murdoch/emap and co sleepless night, in fact I would be surprissed if they ever give them a second's thought!
That is where we are today, and next year!. It seems so ironic that the bbc in taking over this community radio service has quashed the concept that it cherishess so dearly!.i.e. delivering relevent programmes to the local community. Whatever the intention the result is piss poor!.......
From my understanding of it Charlton had to negotiate as a 'league player',not seperate ...... unlike Ken Bates who opted out!( Leeds). I wonder if he will continue to do this now in the championship!.
With the good offices of the former Chairman of the BBC on our board, (and ITV come to think about it) this would I am sure not pose to much of a difficulty. There were issues of coverage,( the bbc coverage would have been wider) which is why I thought an online feed was so important, not just for fans in the UK but abroad, and those that cannot, or would not travel to those away midweek games had this for free on RTM/Millennium/Time FM.
As AFKA has pointed out ' What 'Charlton' currently lack are individuals prepared to take things further. Radio, fanzines, supporters clubs etc. All these things were well in their strengths long before we rose to the Premiership. Whether it was the Premiership or the Internet that killed off those aspects, or the desire for people to get further involved with things when they can just say their bit on places like here, I really don't know. '........ 'and as I pointed out some of us are trying to do just that'...........
While the radio rights to tier 3 may not be a 'big fish', isn't it likely that any attempted broadcast in breach of any current agreement would not be allowed to proceed?
It would be a bit idealistic to think of a commentator sitting in the media gantry armed with a microphone and ISDN phone link - paid for by whom? I would admire the principle, but fear the realism of such a venture ?
As a parallel, what happened to the footage pulled from YouTube last season- copyright infringement, even in FL 1!
While the radio rights to tier 3 may not be a 'big fish', isn't it likely that any attempted broadcast in breach of any current agreement would not be allowed to proceed?
It would be a bit idealistic to think of a commentator sitting in the media gantry armed with a microphone and ISDN phone link - paid for by whom? I would admire the principle, but fear the realism of such a venture ?
As a parallel, what happened to the footage pulled from YouTube last season- copyright infringement, even in FL 1!
You are quite right, which Is why I mentioned our director M Grade!..... I understand at present it is a league agreement that ' online is not possible' or was not when I checked.
Leeds seem to have opted out of this agreement, or again had!.... The central point of my post was that Mark did an excellent job, and it was a good programme, the type of fan based community radio that is suppossed to be the future of broadcasting. Events may have moved on, and I acknowledge that arrangements are in place, But is it a better service to the listerner, my answer is NO.....
I would suggest that with all the Charlton blogs we have significantly more written coverage of Charlton that we ever had from VOTV. Maybe the quality is not always the same but it is much more frequent and has many more contributors.
I think Charlton Life also offers a voice for the fans. I would suggest the maid difference is that the bloggers, generally, want to write more than the posters on here.
I think what differentiates VOTV and it's founders and contributors is the focal point of a shard goal. The third division and a lack of radio coverage is disappointing but it doesn't compare with moving away from The Valley.
I suspect that if something of the magnitude of leaving The Valley were to happen again the bloggers and the members of Charlton Life would suddenly become as involved as those of the 80s.
Technology changes everything. As I've said before, if the internet had existed in 1985 I believe we wouldn't have left The Valley because it would have helped to focus and sharpen the discontent in such a way that it would have overwhelmed the official argument (which never stacked up) and the people making it.
I'd agree the diversity - and immediacy - of written contributions online is much better these days than when we just had fanzine. But the plurality is also a source of weakness, because it's hard for any particular contributor to raise their voice above the general hubbub and make a significant impression. That might be more democratic but it's also less effective for getting things done.
I had some contact with Mark today and have conveyed to him the favourable sentiment that many expressed about his commentaries and work with the club. He was very positive about that period of time with us but has now moved onto pastures new, following the Scarlets.
Comments
http://bigdavel.wordpress.com
How cruel... ROFL
Newcastle at home, 2-2, ending our 8 game losing streak "Pringle - can he score? HE CAN!!!!!!"
Derby away later that season, 1nil up from Andy Hunt, soaking up some late pressure, break away and Pringle gets the ball on the halfway line but sort of in behind the defence. Mansfield gets all excited shouting "PRINGLE, HES IN ON GOAL" - then calms himself down immediately "but hes got a long way to go though" then Pringle gets to the box and slots it under the keeper "ITS TWO NIL TO CHARLTON!!!".
Classic commentaries he used to deliver.
Bog off - I said it wasn't a great photo!
My missus used to wonder why I was roaring with laughter all the time. . . . some of the callers were totally crackers!
To be honest, i think you are completely wrong Ken (i'll give my reasons).
What 'Charlton' currently lack are individuals prepared to take things further. Radio, fanzines, supporters clubs etc. All these things were well in their strengths long before we rose to the Premiership. Whether it was the Premiership or the Internet that killed off those aspects, or the desire for people to get further involved with things when they can just say their bit on places like here, i really don't know.
Look at the Valley Party articles. Look at the ages of most of the people involved, a huge number between 20-35. Are those people in that age bracket now prepared to stand up, roll their sleeves up and put themselves forward for things ? I think no, and the poor, muted attempts to form a very justifiable Supporters Trust is a decent example that equally lends evidence to suggest otherwise.
On a smaller comparison, take this site for example. We constantly make clear this is any members platform, where you can write articles, organise events etc. We have a fantastic outlet that is regularly visited by a decent-sized cross-section of our support. We'd love for more people to get involved and take responsibility and add different aspects to the site, and have always stressed that right from the start. But there has never really been much interest. I don't blame people for that, its a resource to be used as frequently and as infrequently as anyone likes, but there really is not much desire for people to take on any form or responsibility, big or small, as much as their was say 20 years ago.
He's still putting his toys back in his pram probably.....
great memories really cheered me up last night i went to bed and dreamed of charlton for the first time in ages, woke up with a real spring in my step
I wonder what that measured on the Richter scale?
Do not normally disagree with you,but on this occassion I think you are not correct.
The shambles that resembles the radio coverage on Charlton, namely bbc is both poor and in my opinion, both in content and presentation. Not a patch on the millinimeum radio or Time FM as was!. I say that having worked at the BBC till April for 8 years. Let me assure you that on many an occassion I approached the bbc to get the internet coverage improved, and rang Charlton to get the club to participate in the Charlton live show on a Sunday night. In fact I rang up Suzy sausage and explained why it would be a good idea to clarify the position. I also remember ringing in to Charlton Live and the facts remain that despite the negative, or some might say correct forecast, Pardew left, and we got relegatted ( I think at the time the guests put there house on it that it would not happen). I was also concerned at the clubs finances and the apparent slide into darkness that we are now in! I thought the club needed to restate it's commitment to the fans, and assure it's fans that the ethos of Charlton was still there and true in spirit. Unfortunatly the station closed before the directors got on to the show.
As we know events have changed things beyond almost recognition to the days of the Prem. I personally discussed Charlton's position with quite a few bbc people, including the then Chairman of the bbc then Micheal Grade. I also discussed with the club the radio coverage not being on the net, and how in my opinion this did not serve the wider community of Charlton. Charlton TV was being introduced although at the time mac users like myself could not use this service!. ( yes I know about parellels). I discussed with the club that I did not think that the coverage was better on bbc London, but was told it was financial and part of a league deal. When we got relegated from the Championship and Emma Jones did the coverage, I went down to the Valley and wrote about this and featured this for the BBC internally. I think we all have our own opinion of Emma, mine has been well stated!. As I stated I worked for the bbc at the time, I do not now. Therfore I am free to comment on these issues which before I felt constrained to do so!. If you have been to the recent NW Kent and Bromley branches of the supoporters club's I have joined these organisations and spoken at every event that I have attended. I appreciate that these events are run by a handful of dedicated people, true fan's who want the best for the club.
I am currently discussing with Charlton a project and hope that in some small way when agreed that it may benefit the club and it's special position that it has with the community, and fan's. I specialise in publicity, and have offered my services for free!.
I am trying to do my small part to help,' not just sitting back and letting others do it'......
Like you Afka I am all for fan participation and involvement, my remarks were about the BBC coverage, and how good in my opinion Marks commentary was .
Things have moved on I am told, I do not share the view that the coverage at the valley is either better in quality or as dedicated as once was. I am sure the reasons at the time were made for financial and strategic reasons!. This is not some later day gripe , but a subject that I have been involved with, albeit as a fan for some time.
If you would like to wisper me I am more than happy to discuss with you the idea, in fact I would be delighted to meet up with a fellow fan. In fact I will buy the first drink!. This is my opinion of the radio coverage, does not mean I am right! just my opinion!
The offer is there!
Mark Mansfield- top-notch commentator and radio journalist.
RTM/Millennium/Time FM- an indication of the fragility of 'community' radio finances/management/business strategy
You all probably know that the commentaries used by RTM were 'taken' from the Clubcall feed, using MM's password to access their computer - no payment, no contract - effectively pirate radio, but gaining a good-sized audience, particularly for mid-week away games. The switchboard lit like a Christmas tree between 9.30 and 10.00pm with people who had missed hearing the game phoning in for the score. It became a bit frantic when the commentary feed failed from time to time - trying to dial back into the computer AND answer calls to explain why we were playing music instead!
The fact that the radio station is no more speaks volumes for the financial situation. Thamesmead Town were very keen to retain management/ownership, but were running out of dosh, and sadly didn't have the acumen to accept buy-out offers from Rodney Collins' industry contacts, including TKO.
What we have now is endemic to our 'time'- the result of austerity in all corners.
There is also the little matter of establishing a legal, contracted and viable arrangement for broadcasting.
That is where we are today, and next year!. It seems so ironic that the bbc in taking over this community radio service has quashed the concept that it cherishess so dearly!.i.e. delivering relevent programmes to the local community. Whatever the intention the result is piss poor!.......
From my understanding of it Charlton had to negotiate as a 'league player',not seperate ...... unlike Ken Bates who opted out!( Leeds). I wonder if he will continue to do this now in the championship!.
With the good offices of the former Chairman of the BBC on our board, (and ITV come to think about it) this would I am sure not pose to much of a difficulty. There were issues of coverage,( the bbc coverage would have been wider) which is why I thought an online feed was so important, not just for fans in the UK but abroad, and those that cannot, or would not travel to those away midweek games had this for free on RTM/Millennium/Time FM.
As AFKA has pointed out ' What 'Charlton' currently lack are individuals prepared to take things further. Radio, fanzines, supporters clubs etc. All these things were well in their strengths long before we rose to the Premiership. Whether it was the Premiership or the Internet that killed off those aspects, or the desire for people to get further involved with things when they can just say their bit on places like here, I really don't know. '........ 'and as I pointed out some of us are trying to do just that'...........
It would be a bit idealistic to think of a commentator sitting in the media gantry armed with a microphone and ISDN phone link - paid for by whom?
I would admire the principle, but fear the realism of such a venture ?
As a parallel, what happened to the footage pulled from YouTube last season- copyright infringement, even in FL 1!
how very rude!!!!!!!!
you can shut it as well gobby
It would be a bit idealistic to think of a commentator sitting in the media gantry armed with a microphone and ISDN phone link - paid for by whom?
I would admire the principle, but fear the realism of such a venture ?
As a parallel, what happened to the footage pulled from YouTube last season- copyright infringement, even in FL 1!
You are quite right, which Is why I mentioned our director M Grade!..... I understand at present it is a league agreement that ' online is not possible' or was not when I checked.
Leeds seem to have opted out of this agreement, or again had!.... The central point of my post was that Mark did an excellent job, and it was a good programme, the type of fan based community radio that is suppossed to be the future of broadcasting.
Events may have moved on, and I acknowledge that arrangements are in place, But is it a better service to the listerner, my answer is NO.....
If none of that had ever happened we'd never have had Emma...
I would suggest that with all the Charlton blogs we have significantly more written coverage of Charlton that we ever had from VOTV. Maybe the quality is not always the same but it is much more frequent and has many more contributors.
I think Charlton Life also offers a voice for the fans. I would suggest the maid difference is that the bloggers, generally, want to write more than the posters on here.
I think what differentiates VOTV and it's founders and contributors is the focal point of a shard goal. The third division and a lack of radio coverage is disappointing but it doesn't compare with moving away from The Valley.
I suspect that if something of the magnitude of leaving The Valley were to happen again the bloggers and the members of Charlton Life would suddenly become as involved as those of the 80s.
I'd agree the diversity - and immediacy - of written contributions online is much better these days than when we just had fanzine. But the plurality is also a source of weakness, because it's hard for any particular contributor to raise their voice above the general hubbub and make a significant impression. That might be more democratic but it's also less effective for getting things done.