Back now, albeit briefly as Xmas decs, cards, ironing , veggies are calling my name....
BDL...You asked how can we reclaim CASC. Although I agree that a united Supporters' Club would be more "powerful" should it ever be needed in , say, a Back to the Valley type situation again, I 'm unsure what would be gained by "re-grouping" again. As Suzi pointed out, an attempt was made earlier this year to do just that and failed miserably. I have my own views as to why this was such a dismal failure although those present on the evening of the meeting will have drawn their own conclusions....
This was not the first attempt to rebuild CASC as most involved in the group are aware. A previous attempt, which Henry "chaired" ( for want of a more succinct word) led to the development of The Executive Committee and seemingly, a brand new constitution for CASC as a whole. The majority of those involved in local branches were keen to give this airtime and we duly played our part ( or so we thought) in getting this off the ground.....
However, it did not take long for in-fighting to start, for egos to re-surface big time and for the whole caboodle to collapse. Decisions were taken without due discussion - some which had serious financial implications for the group - and those who felt that valuable time & energy was best used at local level, decided, albeit reluctantly, to leave the building. NWK & Bromley are 2 prime examples of how fee paying members can be best served away from a " governing body" as such and I have NO idea how the Executive ( if it still exists) is now working....It would be interesting to hear from one of the members of that committee.
BDL states that Greenwich & Bexley CASC " no longer exists ". For sure, I have not seen any meetings/functions advertised for many moons ( although, funnily enough, the POTY event is still staged annually by this group) so I have to wonder how many supporters are willing to pay for "nothing". However, there is still a listing in every match programme and 2 of it's senior members regularly pen a piece for one of my local free papers, stating they represent G&B CASC. All I shall say on that, is that they don not necessarily represent MY views ...And then there is the CASC website.....which speaks volumes ( or not ! )
So, there we are. Where do we go from here , if anywhere ? Answers on a postcard, please ......
Oh and regarding the POTY question....NWKA 's committee held a meeting with Peter Varney when he was CEO to ask just this question. He stated that the event had always been a Supporters' Club issue ( ie the football club would not wish to take it over at that time) and that all groups should get together to determine the best way forward. As Chair of NWKA , I was emailed last spring regarding my views on the forthcoming event, but unfortunately, my ideas were seemingly deemed superfluous & treated with some derision , hence I shall not respond in the future to similar correspondence. Been there, got the T shirt and the frown lines as proof - you just can't help some folks !
Henry- didn't think u were having a pop at the forum. Was just trying to illustrate that its quite a closed shop.
There was a form or something sent out asking people to re-join G+B casc I think via email which I was forwarded by someone but no idea if people joined and if they have been promised something in return.
Don't know if any profits were made from the poty do either or where these went. I did hear that profits one year went to the person who designed the casc website which is so out of date was a waste of money.
I don't think this is difficult. The PoY is in the gift of the club. The fans' forum plus whoever make representations at one of their meetings to have it taken away from Greenwich and Bexley CASC, which appears to have no meaningful existence anyway. The club takes it away. End of story.
Rest assured this argument has been made internally in previous years.
As for Suzi's point about the get-together meeting, it was clear on the night that no action would follow because there was no strategy or structure to deliver it.
I'd just like to reiterate the point I made earlier, Airman that Peter Varney when CEO, stated that the Club would NOT get involved ie It was something to be sorted amongst the "branches" of CASC/other supporter groups.
Are you saying that now the FF has meetings with " the powers that be" , something might be implemented by the Club ?
I think we've moved on from the situation when PV was chief executive, not least because we've had another 18 months' inactivity by the phantom branch.
Wendy Perfect, in particular, made a strong internal argument to remove the event from G&B/the executive committee last year. The case for not doing so was that club didn't want to be seen to pick an argument with supporters given all the things that were going on. However, to some extent this reflects a lack of understanding on the part of the club. I agree that the proposal needs to have broad backing, but I very much doubt that any of the fans' forum, Bromley, NWK, Maidstone or the Sussex branches is going to argue for G&B retaining effective control of the event. That means, essentially, that the club would have to argue, we are not going to take it away because it might upset Paul Nottage, Steve Bailey and, on past form, Mick Gebbett (I have no idea what Mick's view is, but his name gets used).
As Henry says, the event is almost entirely delivered by the football club already, so I see no reason why it cannot be put on by a steering committee involving the fans' forum and the various active groups, inside and outside CASC. The argument for keeping it out of the club's complete control was always that it is an event for "ordinary fans" and therefore costs and ticket prices need to be kept to a reasonable level so that it remains accessible. I support that.
The club won't instigate this change because it doesn't understand the politics, but I don't see any problem with the fans forcing the issue. If G&B have a counter-argument to make there is no reason they shouldn't be given the opportunity.
As I said I personally and Bromley Addicks as a whole have no interest in "taking over" anything or running the POTY do.
I would suggest that rather than the POTY being taken away any interested parties submit proposals for running the 2010 POTY event which can then be considered by the Football Club. That could be Charlton Life, one of the groups or a combination of them or someone completely different.
The proposal that offers the best value to fans and the most added value ie by raising funds for Charity or a project such as the Charlton Upbeats, would then be endorsed by the Club.
I would suggest a deadline of 31 January for submitting proposals.
On a separate point I do want to see effective, elected and accountable fans groups in Greenwich and in Bexley (not sure why they are lumped together as each would have more potential members than Bromley) but that is down to people who live in those borough's to step forward and make that happen. That could be as part of CASC or as independent groups.
How many years now is it since G&B CASC had an open AGM or published any accounts? Have we ever seen the accounts from the POTY do and how any monies are then spent?
I think you are conflating two separate issues and over-complicating one of them.
The PoY is not and in my view should not become a significant fundraiser. It is about access to the playing squad for the maximum number of supporters. If it is going to be a fundraiser the board could reasonably take the view that the club will take the profit and structure it to maximise revenue. Therefore I think inviting proposals misses the point. It's a club event in all but name, but it needs supporters to lead it or it becomes something else entirely.
It's really the business of supporters living in Greenwich and Bexley to hold those who claim to be running that branch to account, because as you know theirs is not the only phantom branch to have existed. Otherwise the club is deciding what is and isn't a legitimate supporters' group.
On the first, if the POTY is only about fans having access to players then it is currently doing that and so it might as well stay with the "rotten Borough" that calls itself G&B CASC.
Others think that it can be that and more ie a fundraiser for charity or that it could it be done at a lower ticket price. The Club is already making money from the hire of facilities (I assume it is not given free) and from the catering and bar takings.
The second issue is the legitimacy of the G&B CASC. Allowing G&B the POTY event to run and giving it prominence in the programme and elsewhere are the only things that give G&B CASC and the Executive committee any illusion of legitimacy.
But I do agree that it is up to fans in Greenwich and Bexley to do something about their local organisation but that is not helped while the club gives out the wrong message that there is an active G&B CASC branch or while the two people who seem to make up the whole branch refuse to hold any meetings or AGM or publish accounts.
Of course that suits them as as long as there is no AGM there can be no vote to remove them so the farce continues.
So......
Peter Varney and Keith Peacock are attending the NWKA event at Bexley Sports & Social Club, Calvert Drive, DA2 7GA on Tuesday 15th December - prompt 8pm start.
Just coming into this debate a bit late .... and it has to be said that we are seriously off-topic ... but two things occur to me:
1) Speaking on behalf of the Fans' Forum, we would be happy to get involved, take responsibility ... whatever ... for the POTY event. That idea was discussed last season, and we got involved to a certain extent, even if it was only to act as dogsbodies collecting votes on two or three matchdays.
2) Whatever the rights and wrongs, the responsibility for the POTY event currently sits with CASC. Any change to that arrangement needs to be done with Steve Bailey and Paul Nottage etc being made fully aware. It should not be presented to them as a done deal, whatever the perceived merits of that might be. Is someone intending to speak to them so that this change of responsibility can done with a degree of dignity and consensus rather than turning into a political battleground?
If, as Rick says, the POTY is a Club event which is the 'gift' to fans, then it is the Club which needs to break it gently to Steve Bailey and Paul Nottage that other, more representative, capable and willing volunteers are being given the chance to organise the 2009-10 POTY event .... and "thank you very much for your previous efforts."
[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]I agree there are two seperate issues here.
On the first, if the POTY is only about fans having access to players then it is currently doing that and so it might as well stay with the "rotten Borough" that calls itself G&B CASC.
Others think that it can be that and more ie a fundraiser for charity or that it could it be done at a lower ticket price. The Club is already making money from the hire of facilities (I assume it is not given free) and from the catering and bar takings.
The second issue is the legitimacy of the G&B CASC. Allowing G&B the POTY event to run and giving it prominence in the programme and elsewhere are the only things that give G&B CASC and the Executive committee any illusion of legitimacy.
But I do agree that it is up to fans in Greenwich and Bexley to do something about their local organisation but that is not helped while the club gives out the wrong message that there is an active G&B CASC branch or while the two people who seem to make up the whole branch refuse to hold any meetings or AGM or publish accounts.
Of course that suits them as as long as there is no AGM there can be no vote to remove them so the farce continues.
But the nub of this is not that the event itself doesn't work, it's whether the contribution G&B make is satisfactory - evidently fans believe the recording of votes to be inadequate, it is not clear how you buy tickets, plus the ticket revenue flows out of the club and then back again without any procedural accountability.
I'm also not sure it is true that Paul Nottage and Steve Bailey "refuse" to do the things you say. Has anyone actually pursued them on these issues? If not isn't this because no one else wants to do the work either?
[cite]Posted By: Dave Rudd[/cite]Just coming into this debate a bit late .... and it has to be said that we are seriously off-topic ... but two things occur to me:
1) Speaking on behalf of the Fans' Forum, we would be happy to get involved, take responsibility ... whatever ... for the POTY event. That idea was discussed last season, and we got involved to a certain extent, even if it was only to act as dogsbodies collecting votes on two or three matchdays.
2) Whatever the rights and wrongs, the responsibility for the POTY event currently sits with CASC. Any change to that arrangement needs to be done with Steve Bailey and Paul Nottage etc being made fully aware. It should not be presented to them as a done deal, whatever the perceived merits of that might be. Is someone intending to speak to them so that this change of responsibility can done with a degree of dignity and consensus rather than turning into a political battleground?
If, as Rick says, the POTY is a Club event which is the 'gift' to fans, then it is the Club which needs to break it gently to Steve Bailey and Paul Nottage that other, more representative, capable and willing volunteers are being given the chance to organise the 2009-10 POTY event .... and "thank you very much for your previous efforts."
:-)
The PoY can proceed without the club's facilities, but not without the players. Therefore the club will always have the whip hand.
What's going on here is a leadership failure. The organised supporters groups are divided among themselves, albeit principally against G&B, and the club won't provide any for a whole variety of reasons. That's why I make it your (the fans' forum's) job.
Fair enough Rick, As I said POTY is not my thing in any case.
I will withdraw the word "refuse" and replace it with "have failed to".
Holding an AGM and publishing accounts should be a minimum expected of a membership organisation (and yes, Bromley do both every year before anyone asks).
It is up to people to step forward but the current sham organisation doesn't make that any easier. Dave and Suzi have already said how their offers of help were re-buffed and we know from the meeting held in Bartrams that Paul Nottage and Steve Bailey were more concerned with holding onto their own power base and influence that actually doing anything.
[cite]Posted By: Airman Brown[/cite]The PoY can proceed without the club's facilities, but not without the players. Therefore the club will always have the whip hand.
What's going on here is a leadership failure. The organised supporters groups are divided among themselves, albeit principally against G&B, and the club won't provide any for a whole variety of reasons. That's why I make it your (the fans' forum's) job.
No problem with that, Rick, but the Fans' Forum can't just take it off CASC's hands. The Club needs to endorse and support that change of ownership.
It seems to me that the following steps are needed:
1) Fans' Forum steps up to the plate - arguably that has already been done, but we can make the Club more formally aware, if that is required
2) The Club publicly endorses the proposal for change of responsibility for the POTY event, ideally following prior discussions with CASC to let them know that things have changed
3) We get on with it, with full support from the Club as the organisation progresses
[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]
But I do agree that it is up to fans in Greenwich and Bexley to do something about their local organisation
That's probably true, but there must be a dozen different reasons why so few people are interested in going down this stream of involvement anymore, particular the younger generation.
Most people simply aren't that bothered. Too much politics and self interest dog these sort of groups nowadays, as can be seen in various posts on this thread.
The block that always held these supporters groups together was always away travel. That is where people got to know others properly and social groups were built from there. The Supporters Club no longer has an organised travel structure (now run by the club), there are established independent groups now that do a good job of arranging Q+A meetings, and there is the internet now where those who seek to voice their opinions have a ready made outlet.
I agree AFKA to a certain extent yet independent groups thrive in some places and the recent Q & As at the Valley have been well attended.
The number of people at Bromley meetings who are from Greenwich and Bexley show there is the demand in those areas. City Addicks still gets good turnouts as will NW Kent next week.
People came forward to join the fans forum none of whom were CASC officers so there are active, keen people out there who want to do something and some of them, like Suzi or Gary, are young.
The internet makes it easier to publicise events as well as providing an alternative.
And woe betide if notes from these meetings aren't posted up on here within hours of the events happening ; - )
Not everyone will want to organise meetings but a lot more will come along to them just like plenty of people want to play Sunday football but only a few will manage a team.
What does need to be done is to make it easier for people to volunteer or just come along to meetings. Having some meetings and AGMs would be a good start.
I don't know about any of the previous history of this issue but I did used to be in the Greenwich and Bexley branch. A few years ago, I can't remember when exactly, I wasn't asked to renew my membership (I don't mean that I was asked not to renew). I assumed that the thing had folded.
If this happened to other members, it will impossible for any of us to hold the committee to account because we are no longer members.
[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]People came forward to join the fans forum none of whom were CASC officers so there are active, keen people out there who want to do something and some of them, like Suzi or Gary, are young.
"... and even those who cling to life remain young at heart, of course"
[cite]Posted By: Airman Brown[/cite]The PoY can proceed without the club's facilities, but not without the players. Therefore the club will always have the whip hand.
What's going on here is a leadership failure. The organised supporters groups are divided among themselves, albeit principally against G&B, and the club won't provide any for a whole variety of reasons. That's why I make it your (the fans' forum's) job.
No problem with that, Rick, but the Fans' Forum can't just take it off CASC's hands. The Club needs to endorse and support that change of ownership.
It seems to me that the following steps are needed:
1) Fans' Forum steps up to the plate - arguably that has already been done, but we can make the Club more formally aware, if that is required
2) The Club publicly endorses the proposal for change of responsibility for the POTY event, ideally following prior discussions with CASC to let them know that things have changed
3) We get on with it, with full support from the Club as the organisation progresses
[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]People came forward to join the fans forum none of whom were CASC officers so there are active, keen people out there who want to do something and some of them, like Suzi or Gary, are young.
"... and even those who cling to life remain young at heart, of course"
Why, thank you, Ben. So kind!
:-)
I think it shows that even pensioners like yourself Dave still have something to contribute
[cite]Posted By: JorgeCosta[/cite]I don't know about any of the previous history of this issue but I did used to be in the Greenwich and Bexley branch. A few years ago, I can't remember when exactly, I wasn't asked to renew my membership (I don't mean that I was asked not to renew). I assumed that the thing had folded.
If this happened to other members, it will impossible for any of us to hold the committee to account because we are no longer members.
[cite]Posted By: Airman Brown[/cite]The PoY can proceed without the club's facilities, but not without the players. Therefore the club will always have the whip hand.
What's going on here is a leadership failure. The organised supporters groups are divided among themselves, albeit principally against G&B, and the club won't provide any for a whole variety of reasons. That's why I make it your (the fans' forum's) job.
No problem with that, Rick, but the Fans' Forum can't just take it off CASC's hands. The Club needs to endorse and support that change of ownership.
It seems to me that the following steps are needed:
1) Fans' Forum steps up to the plate - arguably that has already been done, but we can make the Club more formally aware, if that is required
2) The Club publicly endorses the proposal for change of responsibility for the POTY event, ideally following prior discussions with CASC to let them know that things have changed
3) We get on with it, with full support from the Club as the organisation progresses
I don't see what the problem is, to be honest.
Like I said, the Club needs to endorse and support the proposed change of ownership. Not exactly a problem ... more a case of the Club making the next move by contacting CASC to tell them that their time has passed with regard to the POTY event.
We'll get it on the agenda for the next Fans' Forum meeting with the Club, but with the groundwork having been done before then.
Gee, Airman's entry into the House will be the proverbial piece of p*** after all this. Agree entirely with AFKA, the whole issue seems very political. I live over a hundred miles from The Valley so have no knowledge of the workings of CASC.
What I do know is that for the past two seasons - and Henry for one can confirm this - we have not seen hide nor hair of anyone collecting votes in the East Stand.
Can someone, somewhere, speak/request/ask/demand/discuss in a dignified manner or whatever with whoever, so that the POTY is actually elected by the fans as opposed to the priveleged few who get to vote now?
Comments
.....................................& there was me thinking you were too embarrassed to type the name FANNY, BDL ;-)
BDL...You asked how can we reclaim CASC. Although I agree that a united Supporters' Club would be more "powerful" should it ever be needed in , say, a Back to the Valley type situation again, I 'm unsure what would be gained by "re-grouping" again. As Suzi pointed out, an attempt was made earlier this year to do just that and failed miserably. I have my own views as to why this was such a dismal failure although those present on the evening of the meeting will have drawn their own conclusions....
This was not the first attempt to rebuild CASC as most involved in the group are aware. A previous attempt, which Henry "chaired" ( for want of a more succinct word) led to the development of The Executive Committee and seemingly, a brand new constitution for CASC as a whole. The majority of those involved in local branches were keen to give this airtime and we duly played our part ( or so we thought) in getting this off the ground.....
However, it did not take long for in-fighting to start, for egos to re-surface big time and for the whole caboodle to collapse. Decisions were taken without due discussion - some which had serious financial implications for the group - and those who felt that valuable time & energy was best used at local level, decided, albeit reluctantly, to leave the building. NWK & Bromley are 2 prime examples of how fee paying members can be best served away from a " governing body" as such and I have NO idea how the Executive ( if it still exists) is now working....It would be interesting to hear from one of the members of that committee.
BDL states that Greenwich & Bexley CASC " no longer exists ". For sure, I have not seen any meetings/functions advertised for many moons ( although, funnily enough, the POTY event is still staged annually by this group) so I have to wonder how many supporters are willing to pay for "nothing". However, there is still a listing in every match programme and 2 of it's senior members regularly pen a piece for one of my local free papers, stating they represent G&B CASC. All I shall say on that, is that they don not necessarily represent MY views ...And then there is the CASC website.....which speaks volumes ( or not ! )
So, there we are. Where do we go from here , if anywhere ? Answers on a postcard, please ......
Oh and regarding the POTY question....NWKA 's committee held a meeting with Peter Varney when he was CEO to ask just this question. He stated that the event had always been a Supporters' Club issue ( ie the football club would not wish to take it over at that time) and that all groups should get together to determine the best way forward. As Chair of NWKA , I was emailed last spring regarding my views on the forthcoming event, but unfortunately, my ideas were seemingly deemed superfluous & treated with some derision , hence I shall not respond in the future to similar correspondence. Been there, got the T shirt and the frown lines as proof - you just can't help some folks !
There was a form or something sent out asking people to re-join G+B casc I think via email which I was forwarded by someone but no idea if people joined and if they have been promised something in return.
Don't know if any profits were made from the poty do either or where these went. I did hear that profits one year went to the person who designed the casc website which is so out of date was a waste of money.
Rest assured this argument has been made internally in previous years.
As for Suzi's point about the get-together meeting, it was clear on the night that no action would follow because there was no strategy or structure to deliver it.
Are you saying that now the FF has meetings with " the powers that be" , something might be implemented by the Club ?
Wendy Perfect, in particular, made a strong internal argument to remove the event from G&B/the executive committee last year. The case for not doing so was that club didn't want to be seen to pick an argument with supporters given all the things that were going on. However, to some extent this reflects a lack of understanding on the part of the club. I agree that the proposal needs to have broad backing, but I very much doubt that any of the fans' forum, Bromley, NWK, Maidstone or the Sussex branches is going to argue for G&B retaining effective control of the event. That means, essentially, that the club would have to argue, we are not going to take it away because it might upset Paul Nottage, Steve Bailey and, on past form, Mick Gebbett (I have no idea what Mick's view is, but his name gets used).
As Henry says, the event is almost entirely delivered by the football club already, so I see no reason why it cannot be put on by a steering committee involving the fans' forum and the various active groups, inside and outside CASC. The argument for keeping it out of the club's complete control was always that it is an event for "ordinary fans" and therefore costs and ticket prices need to be kept to a reasonable level so that it remains accessible. I support that.
The club won't instigate this change because it doesn't understand the politics, but I don't see any problem with the fans forcing the issue. If G&B have a counter-argument to make there is no reason they shouldn't be given the opportunity.
I would suggest that rather than the POTY being taken away any interested parties submit proposals for running the 2010 POTY event which can then be considered by the Football Club. That could be Charlton Life, one of the groups or a combination of them or someone completely different.
The proposal that offers the best value to fans and the most added value ie by raising funds for Charity or a project such as the Charlton Upbeats, would then be endorsed by the Club.
I would suggest a deadline of 31 January for submitting proposals.
On a separate point I do want to see effective, elected and accountable fans groups in Greenwich and in Bexley (not sure why they are lumped together as each would have more potential members than Bromley) but that is down to people who live in those borough's to step forward and make that happen. That could be as part of CASC or as independent groups.
How many years now is it since G&B CASC had an open AGM or published any accounts? Have we ever seen the accounts from the POTY do and how any monies are then spent?
The PoY is not and in my view should not become a significant fundraiser. It is about access to the playing squad for the maximum number of supporters. If it is going to be a fundraiser the board could reasonably take the view that the club will take the profit and structure it to maximise revenue. Therefore I think inviting proposals misses the point. It's a club event in all but name, but it needs supporters to lead it or it becomes something else entirely.
It's really the business of supporters living in Greenwich and Bexley to hold those who claim to be running that branch to account, because as you know theirs is not the only phantom branch to have existed. Otherwise the club is deciding what is and isn't a legitimate supporters' group.
On the first, if the POTY is only about fans having access to players then it is currently doing that and so it might as well stay with the "rotten Borough" that calls itself G&B CASC.
Others think that it can be that and more ie a fundraiser for charity or that it could it be done at a lower ticket price. The Club is already making money from the hire of facilities (I assume it is not given free) and from the catering and bar takings.
The second issue is the legitimacy of the G&B CASC. Allowing G&B the POTY event to run and giving it prominence in the programme and elsewhere are the only things that give G&B CASC and the Executive committee any illusion of legitimacy.
But I do agree that it is up to fans in Greenwich and Bexley to do something about their local organisation but that is not helped while the club gives out the wrong message that there is an active G&B CASC branch or while the two people who seem to make up the whole branch refuse to hold any meetings or AGM or publish accounts.
Of course that suits them as as long as there is no AGM there can be no vote to remove them so the farce continues.
Peter Varney and Keith Peacock are attending the NWKA event at Bexley Sports & Social Club, Calvert Drive, DA2 7GA on Tuesday 15th December - prompt 8pm start.
Is this right?
:-)
1) Speaking on behalf of the Fans' Forum, we would be happy to get involved, take responsibility ... whatever ... for the POTY event. That idea was discussed last season, and we got involved to a certain extent, even if it was only to act as dogsbodies collecting votes on two or three matchdays.
2) Whatever the rights and wrongs, the responsibility for the POTY event currently sits with CASC. Any change to that arrangement needs to be done with Steve Bailey and Paul Nottage etc being made fully aware. It should not be presented to them as a done deal, whatever the perceived merits of that might be. Is someone intending to speak to them so that this change of responsibility can done with a degree of dignity and consensus rather than turning into a political battleground?
If, as Rick says, the POTY is a Club event which is the 'gift' to fans, then it is the Club which needs to break it gently to Steve Bailey and Paul Nottage that other, more representative, capable and willing volunteers are being given the chance to organise the 2009-10 POTY event .... and "thank you very much for your previous efforts."
:-)
But the nub of this is not that the event itself doesn't work, it's whether the contribution G&B make is satisfactory - evidently fans believe the recording of votes to be inadequate, it is not clear how you buy tickets, plus the ticket revenue flows out of the club and then back again without any procedural accountability.
I'm also not sure it is true that Paul Nottage and Steve Bailey "refuse" to do the things you say. Has anyone actually pursued them on these issues? If not isn't this because no one else wants to do the work either?
The PoY can proceed without the club's facilities, but not without the players. Therefore the club will always have the whip hand.
What's going on here is a leadership failure. The organised supporters groups are divided among themselves, albeit principally against G&B, and the club won't provide any for a whole variety of reasons. That's why I make it your (the fans' forum's) job.
I will withdraw the word "refuse" and replace it with "have failed to".
Holding an AGM and publishing accounts should be a minimum expected of a membership organisation (and yes, Bromley do both every year before anyone asks).
It is up to people to step forward but the current sham organisation doesn't make that any easier. Dave and Suzi have already said how their offers of help were re-buffed and we know from the meeting held in Bartrams that Paul Nottage and Steve Bailey were more concerned with holding onto their own power base and influence that actually doing anything.
No problem with that, Rick, but the Fans' Forum can't just take it off CASC's hands. The Club needs to endorse and support that change of ownership.
It seems to me that the following steps are needed:
1) Fans' Forum steps up to the plate - arguably that has already been done, but we can make the Club more formally aware, if that is required
2) The Club publicly endorses the proposal for change of responsibility for the POTY event, ideally following prior discussions with CASC to let them know that things have changed
3) We get on with it, with full support from the Club as the organisation progresses
That's probably true, but there must be a dozen different reasons why so few people are interested in going down this stream of involvement anymore, particular the younger generation.
Most people simply aren't that bothered. Too much politics and self interest dog these sort of groups nowadays, as can be seen in various posts on this thread.
The block that always held these supporters groups together was always away travel. That is where people got to know others properly and social groups were built from there. The Supporters Club no longer has an organised travel structure (now run by the club), there are established independent groups now that do a good job of arranging Q+A meetings, and there is the internet now where those who seek to voice their opinions have a ready made outlet.
The number of people at Bromley meetings who are from Greenwich and Bexley show there is the demand in those areas. City Addicks still gets good turnouts as will NW Kent next week.
People came forward to join the fans forum none of whom were CASC officers so there are active, keen people out there who want to do something and some of them, like Suzi or Gary, are young.
The internet makes it easier to publicise events as well as providing an alternative.
And woe betide if notes from these meetings aren't posted up on here within hours of the events happening ; - )
Not everyone will want to organise meetings but a lot more will come along to them just like plenty of people want to play Sunday football but only a few will manage a team.
What does need to be done is to make it easier for people to volunteer or just come along to meetings. Having some meetings and AGMs would be a good start.
If this happened to other members, it will impossible for any of us to hold the committee to account because we are no longer members.
"... and even those who cling to life remain young at heart, of course"
Why, thank you, Ben. So kind!
:-)
I don't see what the problem is, to be honest.
I think it shows that even pensioners like yourself Dave still have something to contribute
; - )
This is just what I mean.
Like I said, the Club needs to endorse and support the proposed change of ownership. Not exactly a problem ... more a case of the Club making the next move by contacting CASC to tell them that their time has passed with regard to the POTY event.
We'll get it on the agenda for the next Fans' Forum meeting with the Club, but with the groundwork having been done before then.
Might avoid any confusion or misunderstanding later on.
What I do know is that for the past two seasons - and Henry for one can confirm this - we have not seen hide nor hair of anyone collecting votes in the East Stand.
Can someone, somewhere, speak/request/ask/demand/discuss in a dignified manner or whatever with whoever, so that the POTY is actually elected by the fans as opposed to the priveleged few who get to vote now?
Thanks guys.