Well done forzajuve_ 27 for having the courage to start this thread and question the scapegoating of a player who gives of his best and arguably has never had a fair crack of the whip since joining Charlton. A longterm injury courtesy of the Plymouth thug who effectively finished Todorov's career hasn't helped matters.
McLeod is ungainly and that accentuates his mistakes and makes him look worse than he is. The Oldham defence only really looked troubled once he started running at it. Prior to that a marauding Kelly Youga had caused a few problems and that was about it. McLeod scored 25 goals or so in a season for MK Dons so given a run of games he has shown that he has the ability to score. That said his miss on Saturday from a few yards out was awful to watch.
We are a third division club now and third division players do not always perform well eg Llera at Colchester. All you can ask is that they give of their best.
Too many people are mixing issues and blaming Izale for the fact that their preferred man, Dickson, has arguably not had a fair crack of the whip either. I remember Dickson similarly missing a chance for what should have been a certain goal last season incidentally. It happens. The consequences are accentuated though when chances are few and far between as was the case against Oldham.
mcleod is an appalling footballer and in my opinion what we have seen of him this season has not really shown much sign for encouragement - he has done what he has done ever since he joined us, which is cause some defences problems with his pace, but in terms of ability/first touch/positioning/heading/finishing/reading of the game//passing and general use of the ball, mcleod is very, very poor, even for this level. regardless of his finishing, he doesnt look like a natural footballer, he has his head down all the time and doesnt abide by many of the basic techniques for playing football which you are taught when youre a kid.
You could have quite easily been describing Mike Flanagan when he first arrived at the club or even Jason Euell there. The point being that with the benefit of a few goals and some confidence, you can suddenly become a totally different player. Coming on with 20 mins to go puts him under tremendous pressure to deliver, not easy for any player that has had very little first team football recently. Give him a start with another striker (Perhaps Leon) and the pressure would be halved.
forzajuve_27: thank you for this thread. Easy to come here and hammer someone who has fallen short, much more difficult to try and bring perspective.
Saying that "names don't hurt" is ridiculous. Anyone who has ever played any sport or performed before observers is well aware that performances are impacted from supporters and, for very different reasons, from opposition. The thought that somehow petty insults hurled at someone will help motivate them to "earn their paycheque" is absurd.
Not in my book - has pace and decent ability for this level, as he is showing. His problem is entirely mental ....... he just lacks composure in front of goal and snatching at chances, resulting in loss of self-belief.
The other parts of his game generally stand up to scrutiny, and he scares the life out of tiring defenders. Kevin Lisbie was the same.
Thanks guys for the props for starting this thread, I have always liked McLeod since he joined Charlton probably because I backed him to do well and I'm still hoping to be vindicated for making that decision, I was even comtimplating getting him on my shirt for this season because I believed that he could start banging in the goals and then before you know it all of our fans would suddenly getting on the pro McLeod bandwagon as we all know what they're like. Without a doubt McLeod has made some bad misses in his career here and I hate seeing them because I want him to do so well here, I still believe up until now he really hasn't had a fair crack of the whip and the same applies to Dickson but another thing I don't understand is why all of our fans love Dickson when McLeod has actually now scored more goals for us than him. Fair enough he is banging in the goals for Bristol Rovers and it possibly would be a good idea to bring him back here when the recall clause takes effect, but he hasn't done anything for us to gain this much affection from our fans surely?
I just wish we would be a bit more enthusiastic towards Izale when he comes on and also look at what he does do in games, I doubt anyone here can say that whenever he has played he hasn't caused a defence problems by his pace. The examples of bad misses paulsturgess used: palarse away - fair enough bad miss norwich away - not a bad one in my opinion, tight angle and the only striker of ours I could ever see scoring that one would have been Darren Bent, his pace still caused them problems, oldham - agree that 1 miss was a bad one others were more half chances and his pace caused them problems I don't recall at all a "shocking miss at home to west brom in the cup game" but I do know in that game he was probably our man of the match, yet again his pace causing them problems and we probably should of had a penalty for albrechtson shoving him in the box.
[cite]Posted By: SoundAsa£[/cite]McLeod....Dickinson....Fleetwood.....Varney....wouldn't give you a carrot for the lot of 'em to be honest.
funny isn't it that McLeod scores bundles elsewhere, comes to us,nothing
funny isn't it that Varney scores bundles elsewhere, comes to us, nothing
fuuny isn't it that Fleetwood scores bundles elsewhere, comes to us, not given a chance
funny isn't it that Dickson scores for fun at Gillingham, isn't given a chance by us
fuuny isn't it that Lisbie goes elsewhere and scores quite freely, even for Ipswich
must be something in the water at The Valley .......
Dickson is loved because he cost oh 35,000 and mcleod hated cos he cost 1,500,000
and Dickson is a showman! I would love to see all of our strikers banging them in but it won't happen!
We were having a 'debate' if that's the correct term with NSS after the game Saturday & he obviously had very strong opinions on Mcleod post match. However, can anyone name a worse player that we have signed for a Seven figure fee? I am now swaying toward the he'll never come good at Charlton camp, it's just one of those things, no doubt the next club he plays for he'll score 20 goals a season for, sadly i do not think he'll ever be that player for us.
He must have been wearing his clown shoes on saturday there is no other way on earth that anyone could have missed that last chance.
as for the name calling Izale the Clown is very tame to what i could have called him after that miss
i feel sorry for him to be fair as i dont think he missed it deliberatly, his pace scares defenders and his shooting has them pissing themselves there lies the problem
[cite]Posted By: Ketman[/cite]We were having a 'debate' if that's the correct term with NSS after the game Saturday & he obviously had very strong opinions on Mcleod post match. However, can anyone name a worse player that we have signed for a Seven figure fee? I am now swaying toward the he'll never come good at Charlton camp, it's just one of those things, no doubt the next club he plays for he'll score 20 goals a season for, sadly i do not think he'll ever be that player for us.
[cite]Posted By: Ketman[/cite]We were having a 'debate' if that's the correct term with NSS after the game Saturday & he obviously had very strong opinions on Mcleod post match. However,can anyone name a worse player that we have signed for a Seven figure fee?I am now swaying toward the he'll never come good at Charlton camp, it's just one of those things, no doubt the next club he plays for he'll score 20 goals a season for, sadly i do not think he'll ever be that player for us.
easy - Traore, Faye, Redfearn
Fair enough but All of those were signed in Top division so overinflated transfer fees were involved & none are strikers & what are strikers ultimately judged on?
To judge him fairly, as with any striker, he needs to start 5-10 games in a row. If a player thinks he is going to be dropped, or the fans will crucify as soon as he misses a chance, then you will never see the best of him. Lisbie was with us for 10 seasons, but how many times did he play 10 consecutive games? I doubt whether he ever did because of injuries.
When people indicate that he is lacking in confidence, this paints the picture that he used to be a good striker. Unfortunatly i have yet to witness this at Charlton. Furthermore, what about the effect this has on the rest of the team, when your star striker is unable to hit a cows arse with a banjo. If your Sunday morning forward continually missed the howlers he has, wouldn't he be given the same stick? The teams I played for certainly would. Come to think of it, I have played in the same side of a couple of Izzy's.
Someone sitting near me booed Izale as soon as he came on. Booed every touch he made and kept shouting 'get him off'. With 'supporters' like that, who needs opposition fans! Whatever people say, it cannot help a player's confidence when his own fans shout with such negativity. He needs encouragement not booing.
[cite]Posted By: Groucho78MFC[/cite]"before being shipped out to Millwall where he had a fairly productive loan spell."
......Riiiiiiiiiiight.
If that's what you call "fairly productive", then no wonder you think he's good!
To be fair Grouchy, if you entered a thread with this title expecting any insights, you're a definite optimist.
He certainly was productive in terms of Jackett's blood pressure...
Mcleod is not a bad player and certanly not the worst we have bought for over a million (Traore wins this hands down) but for a million we are right to expect better and for a striker his finishing can be awful. I would never boo him though as he still has many qualities and is a good option on the bench, I believe we would have scored given another 5-10 mins on sat as McLeod and McKenszie caused no end of problems Dickson may be a showman but 10 in 14 suggests there is more to his game than that, it will only be when he plays 5 or 6 games in a row for charlton with a striker up alongside him at this level that this argument will truly be stopped! Fleetwood, I am unconvinced, someone here said a while back that for him to play well the team has to play to his strengths, under Parky atm can't see us doing that so all the best to him at exeter (just hope he scores when the play the other teams near the top).
[cite]Posted By: ME14addick[/cite]Someone sitting near me booed Izale as soon as he came on. Booed every touch he made and kept shouting 'get him off'. With 'supporters' like that, who needs opposition fans! Whatever people say, it cannot help a player's confidence when his own fans shout with such negativity. He needs encouragement not booing.
Really makes my blood boil when people do things like that. I have really disliked some Charlton players and thought many more were absolute garbage, but I've never booed them because whilst they're out there because they're on our side - even if I hate them I want them to do well whilst they're in a Charlton shirt because that means Charlton will do well.
Only slight exception to this is the tirade of abuse I gave Marcus Bent after he headed striaght down the tunnel at the end of the final Premiership game at Liverpool a couple of years back, but that was after the game and I felt he deserved it for his general stinking attitude.
I gather Mcleod has been 'difficult' in the past, but he seems to be giving it his best this season. I don;t think he's very good, but as long as he's trying he deserves support, not abuse.
I wouldn't boo Mcleod as at least you can see him trying. In all my time I've booed Faye and Sasa Illic - just lost my temper, at his contiuously erratic play in the prem, felt guily for that one - and Faye is probably the only one I would do again.
Mcleod does have something but it's not precision or a good temprement. If the MK Dons fans say he scored one in two they must be sufferring from amnesia. He ain't ever going to score more than one in four chances, and they'll have to be four bloody good chances because he manages to turn a one on one with a defender pretty much into a three on him in milliseconds; unless he's head down careering into space like a lucky double six.
Most managers don't see past how a player approaches his business but rather look at his physical attributes. These is classically seen in baseball where a player with an A-1 physical frame will be drafted towards the top irregardless of his stats. It ain't hard to see in a game time, even in the champ, that Dickson unsettles people and makes space for others by dragging defenders out of channels. Mcleod draws fouls and that's all that can be said for his runs off the ball. Mcleod may be an OK factor in this div, but at this level he'll be erratic and he's a waste at the top part of the table.
Many years ago, I watched a striker play for Fulham. he must have had 6 clear cut chances in that game - and he missed the lot. But he wouldn't have had any chances at all if he hadn't been in the right place at the right time.
His name? Malcolm MacDonald.
Then there are strikers who score 10 goals a season and probably convert 1 in 2 or 1 in 3 ..... which any pro striker will tell you, is a very good conversion rate. But even though they are clinical in the box, they are not in the right place at the right time to get more goalscoring chances.
But like MacDonald, you have to be in the right place at the right time to get chances ....... and what I do notice with Izale McLeod, is that he's invariably in the right place at the right time to be on the end of a chance even if snatches at it and misses.
Okay, on Saturday he had a couple of half chances and a glaring miss ....... but in just 25 minutes on the park he caused more problems and was on the end of more chances than the team apparently created in the hour or so before that.
He might not have scored but he definitely brings something to the team when he's playing.
"2 goals in 7 games plus a man of the match on his debut hence the word "fairly""
Both goals came in one game. One was a penalty, and the other was f**king laughable. Three attempts from 6 yards out - the first one hit the keeper. The second he almost tripped over the ball after it scuffed and rattled between his own shins about five times. He finally smashed the ball into an empty net on the third attempt. At the point when he went clear on goal from about 40 yards out, there was not a defender in sight. By the time the ball finally hit the net, pretty much every single Stockport player was in the box. Honestly, it was embarrassing.
He spent the next 6 weeks of his loan either throwing his toys out of the pram, or training with the kids. For my money, a more Mickey-Mouse professional you could not wish to meet. Despite our lot seemingly unable to hit a cows ar$e with a banjo at the moment, i'm still not sure i'd have him in the team over any of our current strikers.
THAT SAID....
He seems to be getting his head in order now, and his goal for you lot the other week was a very good finish.
Have to say Grouch that is him to a T. He won't score if he's pelting towards goal and a defender's on his shoulder. The majority of goals I saw him score for MK Dons, via the tele, were where he was clean through against a high up defence; apart from ping pong inside the box goals. But the worst part of this is is that when he does have space to attack but a defender is close by, he takes an interminable time to do anything allowing every billy bollox defender to get back. Dickson get's shots off from all angles. Against Coventry at home Dickson was totally isolated as the '1' so had to get shots off early, Mcleod just wouldn't do it. Yes alright Dicko didn't score and his shots got worse but it made the Coventry defenders wary of him and gave him more space that if Shelvey got near him something may have happened.
I agree Oggy he has something, I'll not hurl abuse at Mcleod but equally I don't think he's up to it. The difference between him and Mcdonald is that Mcdonald got into those positions and scored plenty whilst often Mcleod does not get into a position and wastes good approach play with fine dither. Compare Mcleod to someone like Lita, who just made chance after chance for himself and scored with our awful approach play. Whilst Mcleod runs awful lines, breaks down positive attacks and is slow to get shots off when we are creating good chances. At least the guy trys and works hard, luck may change for him in small spurts. But his head down style, unwillingness to shoot early or force a 50-50 chance will mean under pressure he'll fluff or for the majority hit goalies legs at will. These weaknesses will not change. Fine for say someone like Wycombe but not really for us.
Again comes up with the business today! More than made up for his misses against Oldham, should have had a penalty and could be a contender for MOM altho I would give it to either Youga, Sodje or Racon, his work rate was great today and hopefully he can keep banging them in! Can we please have a song tho now even if it is just Izale! Izale! Izale!
Comments
McLeod is ungainly and that accentuates his mistakes and makes him look worse than he is. The Oldham defence only really looked troubled once he started running at it. Prior to that a marauding Kelly Youga had caused a few problems and that was about it. McLeod scored 25 goals or so in a season for MK Dons so given a run of games he has shown that he has the ability to score. That said his miss on Saturday from a few yards out was awful to watch.
We are a third division club now and third division players do not always perform well eg Llera at Colchester. All you can ask is that they give of their best.
Too many people are mixing issues and blaming Izale for the fact that their preferred man, Dickson, has arguably not had a fair crack of the whip either. I remember Dickson similarly missing a chance for what should have been a certain goal last season incidentally. It happens. The consequences are accentuated though when chances are few and far between as was the case against Oldham.
mcleod is an appalling footballer and in my opinion what we have seen of him this season has not really shown much sign for encouragement - he has done what he has done ever since he joined us, which is cause some defences problems with his pace, but in terms of ability/first touch/positioning/heading/finishing/reading of the game//passing and general use of the ball, mcleod is very, very poor, even for this level. regardless of his finishing, he doesnt look like a natural footballer, he has his head down all the time and doesnt abide by many of the basic techniques for playing football which you are taught when youre a kid.
You could have quite easily been describing Mike Flanagan when he first arrived at the club or even Jason Euell there.
The point being that with the benefit of a few goals and some confidence, you can suddenly become a totally different player.
Coming on with 20 mins to go puts him under tremendous pressure to deliver, not easy for any player that has had very little first team football recently. Give him a start with another striker (Perhaps Leon) and the pressure would be halved.
....[/quote]
Saying that "names don't hurt" is ridiculous. Anyone who has ever played any sport or performed before observers is well aware that performances are impacted from supporters and, for very different reasons, from opposition. The thought that somehow petty insults hurled at someone will help motivate them to "earn their paycheque" is absurd.
Not in my book - has pace and decent ability for this level, as he is showing.
His problem is entirely mental ....... he just lacks composure in front of goal and snatching at chances, resulting in loss of self-belief.
The other parts of his game generally stand up to scrutiny, and he scares the life out of tiring defenders.
Kevin Lisbie was the same.
Mike Small
I just wish we would be a bit more enthusiastic towards Izale when he comes on and also look at what he does do in games, I doubt anyone here can say that whenever he has played he hasn't caused a defence problems by his pace. The examples of bad misses paulsturgess used:
palarse away - fair enough bad miss
norwich away - not a bad one in my opinion, tight angle and the only striker of ours I could ever see scoring that one would have been Darren Bent, his pace still caused them problems, oldham - agree that 1 miss was a bad one others were more half chances and his pace caused them problems
I don't recall at all a "shocking miss at home to west brom in the cup game" but I do know in that game he was probably our man of the match, yet again his pace causing them problems and we probably should of had a penalty for albrechtson shoving him in the box.
funny isn't it that McLeod scores bundles elsewhere, comes to us,nothing
funny isn't it that Varney scores bundles elsewhere, comes to us, nothing
fuuny isn't it that Fleetwood scores bundles elsewhere, comes to us, not given a chance
funny isn't it that Dickson scores for fun at Gillingham, isn't given a chance by us
fuuny isn't it that Lisbie goes elsewhere and scores quite freely, even for Ipswich
must be something in the water at The Valley .......
and Dickson is a showman! I would love to see all of our strikers banging them in but it won't happen!
as for the name calling Izale the Clown is very tame to what i could have called him after that miss
i feel sorry for him to be fair as i dont think he missed it deliberatly, his pace scares defenders and his shooting has them pissing themselves there lies the problem
easy - Traore, Faye, Redfearn
Fair enough but All of those were signed in Top division so overinflated transfer fees were involved & none are strikers & what are strikers ultimately judged on?
Lisbie was with us for 10 seasons, but how many times did he play 10 consecutive games? I doubt whether he ever did because of injuries.
Unfortunatly i have yet to witness this at Charlton.
Furthermore, what about the effect this has on the rest of the team, when your star striker is unable to hit a cows arse with a banjo.
If your Sunday morning forward continually missed the howlers he has, wouldn't he be given the same stick? The teams I played for certainly would.
Come to think of it, I have played in the same side of a couple of Izzy's.
......Riiiiiiiiiiight.
If that's what you call "fairly productive", then no wonder you think he's good!
He certainly was productive in terms of Jackett's blood pressure...
Dickson may be a showman but 10 in 14 suggests there is more to his game than that, it will only be when he plays 5 or 6 games in a row for charlton with a striker up alongside him at this level that this argument will truly be stopped!
Fleetwood, I am unconvinced, someone here said a while back that for him to play well the team has to play to his strengths, under Parky atm can't see us doing that so all the best to him at exeter (just hope he scores when the play the other teams near the top).
Really makes my blood boil when people do things like that. I have really disliked some Charlton players and thought many more were absolute garbage, but I've never booed them because whilst they're out there because they're on our side - even if I hate them I want them to do well whilst they're in a Charlton shirt because that means Charlton will do well.
Only slight exception to this is the tirade of abuse I gave Marcus Bent after he headed striaght down the tunnel at the end of the final Premiership game at Liverpool a couple of years back, but that was after the game and I felt he deserved it for his general stinking attitude.
I gather Mcleod has been 'difficult' in the past, but he seems to be giving it his best this season. I don;t think he's very good, but as long as he's trying he deserves support, not abuse.
Mcleod does have something but it's not precision or a good temprement. If the MK Dons fans say he scored one in two they must be sufferring from amnesia. He ain't ever going to score more than one in four chances, and they'll have to be four bloody good chances because he manages to turn a one on one with a defender pretty much into a three on him in milliseconds; unless he's head down careering into space like a lucky double six.
Most managers don't see past how a player approaches his business but rather look at his physical attributes. These is classically seen in baseball where a player with an A-1 physical frame will be drafted towards the top irregardless of his stats. It ain't hard to see in a game time, even in the champ, that Dickson unsettles people and makes space for others by dragging defenders out of channels. Mcleod draws fouls and that's all that can be said for his runs off the ball. Mcleod may be an OK factor in this div, but at this level he'll be erratic and he's a waste at the top part of the table.
......Riiiiiiiiiiight.
If that's what you call "fairly productive", then no wonder you think he's good![/quote]
2 goals in 7 games plus a man of the match on his debut hence the word "fairly"
But he wouldn't have had any chances at all if he hadn't been in the right place at the right time.
His name? Malcolm MacDonald.
Then there are strikers who score 10 goals a season and probably convert 1 in 2 or 1 in 3 ..... which any pro striker will tell you, is a very good conversion rate. But even though they are clinical in the box, they are not in the right place at the right time to get more goalscoring chances.
But like MacDonald, you have to be in the right place at the right time to get chances ....... and what I do notice with Izale McLeod, is that he's invariably in the right place at the right time to be on the end of a chance even if snatches at it and misses.
Okay, on Saturday he had a couple of half chances and a glaring miss ....... but in just 25 minutes on the park he caused more problems and was on the end of more chances than the team apparently created in the hour or so before that.
He might not have scored but he definitely brings something to the team when he's playing.
Both goals came in one game. One was a penalty, and the other was f**king laughable. Three attempts from 6 yards out - the first one hit the keeper. The second he almost tripped over the ball after it scuffed and rattled between his own shins about five times. He finally smashed the ball into an empty net on the third attempt. At the point when he went clear on goal from about 40 yards out, there was not a defender in sight. By the time the ball finally hit the net, pretty much every single Stockport player was in the box. Honestly, it was embarrassing.
He spent the next 6 weeks of his loan either throwing his toys out of the pram, or training with the kids. For my money, a more Mickey-Mouse professional you could not wish to meet. Despite our lot seemingly unable to hit a cows ar$e with a banjo at the moment, i'm still not sure i'd have him in the team over any of our current strikers.
THAT SAID....
He seems to be getting his head in order now, and his goal for you lot the other week was a very good finish.
I agree Oggy he has something, I'll not hurl abuse at Mcleod but equally I don't think he's up to it. The difference between him and Mcdonald is that Mcdonald got into those positions and scored plenty whilst often Mcleod does not get into a position and wastes good approach play with fine dither. Compare Mcleod to someone like Lita, who just made chance after chance for himself and scored with our awful approach play. Whilst Mcleod runs awful lines, breaks down positive attacks and is slow to get shots off when we are creating good chances. At least the guy trys and works hard, luck may change for him in small spurts. But his head down style, unwillingness to shoot early or force a 50-50 chance will mean under pressure he'll fluff or for the majority hit goalies legs at will. These weaknesses will not change. Fine for say someone like Wycombe but not really for us.
All that falling over trying to get penalties is embarrasing, and Parky was quick to get him off.