I'm halfway thru it at the moment and at the part where lennie as boro manager tries to take the piss buying robert lee (when we were in dire need of funds to help finance the move back to the valley) ....
'i know they wouldn't want to lose him but i also realised, probably better than anyone that the club wanted to bring some much needed cash for their biggest playing asset'
'i started off with an offer of £250k which CURBS and Gritty said no to. I thought it was worth a try just to test the water, but once it was rejected i put in another bid of £400k.'
he was eventually sold to newcastle for £750k
lennie can count himself lucky the internet wasn't around in those days .................
i wonder if curbs had bid £5m for darren bent cos he knew we were desperate to sell after relegation if that would have been seen as ok and that he was just trying to do his best for his new club.....
I was disappointed that the Paul Miller sacking wasn't given more coverage, but it's an enjoyable book none the less, although I'll be surprised if you learn anything that you didn't already know.
The Curbs book was disappointingly bland. The review of this one seems to offer more of the same, unfortunately.
Curbs always played things close to the vest, and given his age and ambitions, it wasn't all that surprising that there wasn't anything controversial or too revealing in that book.
Lennie, and his time at Charlton, was a different kettle of fish. Lennie always came across as more of "character," so this book had much greater potential to be revealing, colourful and interesting.
Perhaps the problem is a League 1-calibre co-author, because Lennie's tale should be an interesting and insightful read.
An opportunity lost, it appears from the review.
[cite]Posted By: American_Addick[/cite]The Curbs book was disappointingly bland. The review of this one seems to offer more of the same, unfortunately.
Curbs always played things close to the vest, and given his age and ambitions, it wasn't all that surprising that there wasn't anything controversial or too revealing in that book.
Lennie, and his time at Charlton, was a different kettle of fish. Lennie always came across as more of "character," so this book had much greater potential to be revealing, colourful and interesting.
Perhaps the problem is a League 1-calibre co-author, because Lennie's tale should be an interesting and insightful read.
An opportunity lost, it appears from the review.
Agree with AA 100%. This is a real shame, there is a fantastic story to be told by Lennie and it seems that the opportunity has been squandered and that the book lacks any real focus.
Disappointed that people are already dismissing the book after reading a review rather than the book itself...
Bought a copy in the club shop yesterday and with nothing better to do, have spent a highly enjoyable few hours reading it this afternoon.
But then what do I know? I seem to be one of the tiny few who thought Curbs' book was fascinating!
I don't wish to insult anybody, but I fear some have been brainwashed by lapping up too many lurid tabloid confessions to recognise a decent, solid book that tells it like it really was when they read it. Or is that unfair of me?
Either way, I'd like to say well done, Lennie. An honest tale told by an honest man - and with an admirable non-tabloid style integrity ...
Trouble is that it does just tell it like it was. (and yes I've read it all)
There is little insight, reflection, comment or analysis. It is merely a recital of dates and events and even those the ghost writer gets wrong.
A bit like saying football's 22 men kicking a bit of leather around. Factually correct but misses the essence and passion of the game.
Far from people being brainwashed by the tabloids it is just because people hoped for more than Kevin Brennan's flat, souless local paper style reporting that they are so disappointed.
When I get a moment, I'll post you a dozen quotes from the book that totally disprove the notion that Lennie lacks passion or that the prose is flat and souless...
I have been a ghost writer and I can tell you that the book is a lot more Lennie and far less Brennan than you suggest...the man used to be a school teacher , after all. He's not like David Beckham, who once admitted that he had never read a book, only to be reminded that he had his name as author on the cover of two !
[cite]Posted By: nigel w[/cite]Disappointed that people are already dismissing the book after reading a review rather than the book itself...
Bought a copy in the club shop yesterday and with nothing better to do, have spent a highly enjoyable few hours reading it this afternoon.
But then what do I know? I seem to be one of the tiny few who thought Curbs' book was fascinating!
I don't wish to insult anybody, but I fear some have been brainwashed by lapping up too many lurid tabloid confessions to recognise a decent, solid book that tells it like it really was when they read it. Or is that unfair of me?
Either way, I'd like to say well done, Lennie. An honest tale told by an honest man - and with an admirable non-tabloid style integrity ...
I'm with you Nigel re Curbs' book. I have not read Lennie's so cannot comment.
However I met the late David Carr, who played for Lincoln under Lennie's management, when he played for Margate (or Thanet United as they were at the time he played) and he said that Lennie was essentially quietly spoken and not one to shout and throw things around unlike a lot of managers. However in his opinion Lennie's great ability was to find the words "to touch the nerve ends" as Dave Carr put it just before they ran out.
If the book comes across as understated then from Dave Carr's description it may well capture the man.
I'm not criticising anyone for not liking the book - merely saying that I did.
I found plenty of ''soul'' (whatever that means) but I agree there weren't many salacious revelations. But I'm rather glad about that. Usually with these sort of books, the editor at the publishing house which has paid out a hefty advance against royalties sends the first draft of the manuscript back and says 'I want more sex and drugs and bad behaviour'.
It seems that didn't happen with this book (or with Curbs' equally admirable book for that matter) - and what a delight that it didn't.
Let me give you an analogy. Curbs once said that he didn't think some fans appreciated the quality of the football played by his teams at the Valley because we had grown accustomed to watching Real Madrid v Inter Milan on Sky and had come to demand the same on a weekly basis in SE7.
What I'm saying is that something similar may have happened to the way a modern audience reads a book. We've grown inured to tabloid stories about an entire midfield of Premiership footballers 'roasting' some poor, drunken teenage girl they've picked up in a nightclub. Stories about the real and mostly mundane routine of football have now grown dull in comparison.
I see your point about some biogs only being sold on the basis of the amount of kiss and tell and neither Lennie or Curbs were ever likely to be into that. Personally I blame Hammer of the Gods for setting the bar so low : - )
But as an example of how a biog can avoid the negative dishing of dirt but still convey some depth and insight about the subject I give you Keith Peacock's book.
I don't think Lennie is a less interesting, witty or articulate person than Keith but he did have 1. a different ghost writer/collaborator who's name I've forgotten but who had a feel for the topic 2. an independent publishing deal which meant that the book was targeted at a specific market rather than trying to please a variety of different audiences.
Anyway, it is a still a book worth reading. It just could have been a lot better.
And you are quite right about Hammer Of the Gods. Apallingly salacious and it has a lot to answer for (but still a bloody great read!)
I never expected kiss-and-tell from Curbishley or Lawrence, which perhaps explains why I don't feel disappointed by either book. But I can see that those who hoped to read about Paul Miller's (alleged) criminal connections or Peter Shirtliff's wife abuse (according to the News of the World, which I seem to recall circa 1987 claimed that he had turned up all the rings on the stove and then lifted up Mrs S and sat her down on them) , might feel they are not getting the 'full' story...
Just ordered it. As I'm one of the 'Nigels tiny few' re the Curbs book, he has perusaded me. Expensive week as have just bought Man Booker winner - Wolf Hall. Cromwell and Lennie, a somewhat eclectic pairing!
Often buy stuff from there… No problem to go through here.. It may only be 3p, but as Chief Nzeribe used to say if you look after the biscuit’s, the cake’s will look after themselves.. Or something like that!
I haven't read Lennie's book yet, but I believe Curbs' book was delayed by a year, presumably for rewriting. All I would say of the latter is that some people who feature do not share the recollection of some events completely as described.
Keith's book is very much his and we went to great lengths to ensure that it was his voice and his views. I also think that compared to Curbs he gave up more of himself to the text in terms of his reflections on his family, who are clearly a central part of his life.
I spoke to Keith on Tuesday night about his book and he is quite happy with it, which from my point of view was at least as important as what the readers thought.
If I did it again I would probably want to do some things differently, but I think the key to making these books work is not dishing dirt, but adding depth. That can be as much about anecdotes and trivia that illuminate relationships as reporting scandal or covering every last detail that is already known.
I think the key to making these books work is not dishing dirt, but adding depth. That can be as much about anecdotes and trivia that illuminate relationships
And that, for me, is what is missing from both Curbs and Lennie's books although the part about his relationship with Hamman is interesting.
Lennie's book is on my Christmas list. Prefered Keith's tome to Curbs but appreciate both. Back to the valley is still good. Might read Gary nelson's again one of these days.
I brought Lennie's book today and have dipped into bits of it. Like the Curbs and Peacock books it would not have interested me if it had not been about Charlton.
Garry Nelson's book was excellant in the way that as a boy I read Eamon Dunphy's book about Millwall ( which as a book I liked apart from ED's attitude about his move to the Valley )
Like many others on this board I lived through this era and his 'side' of the story is fascinating and in some ways nostalgic.
Others have noted the way he left Charlton was not on the best of terms, the other 'fact' which sometimes gets overlooked is the £300,000 he paid for Andy Jones was a considerable sum in that era.
I really enjoyed KP's book I thought his voice came out of it quite clearly and it felt like an honest personal account. Curbs' book was ok, I still enjoyed it, a little more held back, and very much his take on things I would imagine. And sometimes it was just a little bit ...dull. Nelson's book I was enjoying till my copy went mysteriously missing about half way through me reading it, have never found it ............strange. Will get Lennie's book for Christmas no doubt it's got to be better than another jumper ;-)
Comments
'i know they wouldn't want to lose him but i also realised, probably better than anyone that the club wanted to bring some much needed cash for their biggest playing asset'
'i started off with an offer of £250k which CURBS and Gritty said no to. I thought it was worth a try just to test the water, but once it was rejected i put in another bid of £400k.'
he was eventually sold to newcastle for £750k
lennie can count himself lucky the internet wasn't around in those days .................
i wonder if curbs had bid £5m for darren bent cos he knew we were desperate to sell after relegation if that would have been seen as ok and that he was just trying to do his best for his new club.....
Still worth a read though.
Curbs always played things close to the vest, and given his age and ambitions, it wasn't all that surprising that there wasn't anything controversial or too revealing in that book.
Lennie, and his time at Charlton, was a different kettle of fish. Lennie always came across as more of "character," so this book had much greater potential to be revealing, colourful and interesting.
Perhaps the problem is a League 1-calibre co-author, because Lennie's tale should be an interesting and insightful read.
An opportunity lost, it appears from the review.
Agree with AA 100%. This is a real shame, there is a fantastic story to be told by Lennie and it seems that the opportunity has been squandered and that the book lacks any real focus.
You don't need to brag about it Arf.
Bought a copy in the club shop yesterday and with nothing better to do, have spent a highly enjoyable few hours reading it this afternoon.
But then what do I know? I seem to be one of the tiny few who thought Curbs' book was fascinating!
I don't wish to insult anybody, but I fear some have been brainwashed by lapping up too many lurid tabloid confessions to recognise a decent, solid book that tells it like it really was when they read it. Or is that unfair of me?
Either way, I'd like to say well done, Lennie. An honest tale told by an honest man - and with an admirable non-tabloid style integrity ...
There is little insight, reflection, comment or analysis. It is merely a recital of dates and events and even those the ghost writer gets wrong.
A bit like saying football's 22 men kicking a bit of leather around. Factually correct but misses the essence and passion of the game.
Far from people being brainwashed by the tabloids it is just because people hoped for more than Kevin Brennan's flat, souless local paper style reporting that they are so disappointed.
I have been a ghost writer and I can tell you that the book is a lot more Lennie and far less Brennan than you suggest...the man used to be a school teacher , after all. He's not like David Beckham, who once admitted that he had never read a book, only to be reminded that he had his name as author on the cover of two !
Glad you enjoyed it Nigel
As I said higher up it is "worth a read". I actually enjoyed reading it.
Just a shame that it is not better written and doesn't really reflect Lennie's wit and wisdom.
I'm with you Nigel re Curbs' book. I have not read Lennie's so cannot comment.
However I met the late David Carr, who played for Lincoln under Lennie's management, when he played for Margate (or Thanet United as they were at the time he played) and he said that Lennie was essentially quietly spoken and not one to shout and throw things around unlike a lot of managers. However in his opinion Lennie's great ability was to find the words "to touch the nerve ends" as Dave Carr put it just before they ran out.
If the book comes across as understated then from Dave Carr's description it may well capture the man.
I found plenty of ''soul'' (whatever that means) but I agree there weren't many salacious revelations. But I'm rather glad about that. Usually with these sort of books, the editor at the publishing house which has paid out a hefty advance against royalties sends the first draft of the manuscript back and says 'I want more sex and drugs and bad behaviour'.
It seems that didn't happen with this book (or with Curbs' equally admirable book for that matter) - and what a delight that it didn't.
Let me give you an analogy. Curbs once said that he didn't think some fans appreciated the quality of the football played by his teams at the Valley because we had grown accustomed to watching Real Madrid v Inter Milan on Sky and had come to demand the same on a weekly basis in SE7.
What I'm saying is that something similar may have happened to the way a modern audience reads a book. We've grown inured to tabloid stories about an entire midfield of Premiership footballers 'roasting' some poor, drunken teenage girl they've picked up in a nightclub. Stories about the real and mostly mundane routine of football have now grown dull in comparison.
I see your point about some biogs only being sold on the basis of the amount of kiss and tell and neither Lennie or Curbs were ever likely to be into that. Personally I blame Hammer of the Gods for setting the bar so low : - )
But as an example of how a biog can avoid the negative dishing of dirt but still convey some depth and insight about the subject I give you Keith Peacock's book.
I don't think Lennie is a less interesting, witty or articulate person than Keith but he did have 1. a different ghost writer/collaborator who's name I've forgotten but who had a feel for the topic 2. an independent publishing deal which meant that the book was targeted at a specific market rather than trying to please a variety of different audiences.
Anyway, it is a still a book worth reading. It just could have been a lot better.
;-)
And you are quite right about Hammer Of the Gods. Apallingly salacious and it has a lot to answer for (but still a bloody great read!)
I never expected kiss-and-tell from Curbishley or Lawrence, which perhaps explains why I don't feel disappointed by either book. But I can see that those who hoped to read about Paul Miller's (alleged) criminal connections or Peter Shirtliff's wife abuse (according to the News of the World, which I seem to recall circa 1987 claimed that he had turned up all the rings on the stove and then lifted up Mrs S and sat her down on them) , might feel they are not getting the 'full' story...
http://www.charltonlife.com/forum/?Page=shop
In this example, just select Books in the right hand side, and type in 'lennie' and it will come up as the first option.
That way we're likely to receive around 3p in 2014, or something ridiculous like that !
Keith's book is very much his and we went to great lengths to ensure that it was his voice and his views. I also think that compared to Curbs he gave up more of himself to the text in terms of his reflections on his family, who are clearly a central part of his life.
I spoke to Keith on Tuesday night about his book and he is quite happy with it, which from my point of view was at least as important as what the readers thought.
If I did it again I would probably want to do some things differently, but I think the key to making these books work is not dishing dirt, but adding depth. That can be as much about anecdotes and trivia that illuminate relationships as reporting scandal or covering every last detail that is already known.
And that, for me, is what is missing from both Curbs and Lennie's books although the part about his relationship with Hamman is interesting.
Garry Nelson's book was excellant in the way that as a boy I read Eamon Dunphy's book about Millwall ( which as a book I liked apart from ED's attitude about his move to the Valley )
Like many others on this board I lived through this era and his 'side' of the story is fascinating and in some ways nostalgic.
Others have noted the way he left Charlton was not on the best of terms, the other 'fact' which sometimes gets overlooked is the £300,000 he paid for Andy Jones was a considerable sum in that era.
Curbs' book was ok, I still enjoyed it, a little more held back, and very much his take on things I would imagine. And sometimes it was just a little bit ...dull.
Nelson's book I was enjoying till my copy went mysteriously missing about half way through me reading it, have never found it ............strange.
Will get Lennie's book for Christmas no doubt it's got to be better than another jumper ;-)