i don't know what this 'he is only gonna get better' statement is based on yes a lot of keepers improve with age but against this some of the young pretenders to the england crown in recent years have got worse imo richard wright, paul robinson, scott carson
[cite]Posted By: oohaahmortimer[/cite]i don't know what this 'he is only gonna get better' statement is based on yes a lot of keepers improve with age but against this some of the young pretenders to the england crown in recent years have got worse imo richard wright, paul robinson, scott carson
Ok then, he's only going to get worse with experience.
[cite]Posted By: oohaahmortimer[/cite]i don't know what this 'he is only gonna get better' statement is based on yes a lot of keepers improve with age but against this some of the young pretenders to the england crown in recent years have got worse imo richard wright, paul robinson, scott carson
Ok then, he's only going to get worse with experience.
you know i'm making the point he could get better or worse no guarantee of either ... or he may stay the same..... a third tier keeper
Sure there's no gurantee of where he'll end up, but I see a lot ofnatural talent in Elliot, good reactions, positioning, ability to catch the ball, punch and he can throw the ball prodigious distances. However there are some aspects of his game that need improving - communicating with his defenders and knowing when to come for crosses etc and they are the sort of things that will improve with playing experience. From what I've seen of him from last season to this he does look a lot better and I'd attribute the playing time as aregular starter as the cause. It's not unrealistic to expect to see further improvement and most keepers are not at their best until their mid/late 20s, so he's ahead of the curve.
The syaing is...that a keeper is only as good as the defenders in front of him and maybe it's no coincidence that he and Llera both appeared to have their worst game of the eason last night.
Elliot has all the attributes to become an excellent 'keeper.
The ability to command your area comes with experience and some keepers never really get it.
I yield to nobody in my admiration for Deano but if he had a weakness that was where it was. Carson (ok he was young when with us) and Weaver were not really commanding either.
I wasn't there to see what appeared to be something of a horror show last night but the encouraging thing about Elliot in my opinion is that he is already trying to take responsibility for his area and that is a good sign in my book.
All keepers make mistakes. David James for example yet he is still arguably England's first choice.
What skills/abilities does a keeper have to possess?
In no order - and there may be some I miss out:
-Shot stopping ability/reflexes
-Being supple, diving etc
-Good on crosses
-Communicating with his defenders and commanding his box, organising defensive walls etc
-Distributing the ball
-Being able to catch, punch, kick the ball clear
-Decision making skills - knowing when to come for a cross/commit himself and when not to
-Positioning/narrowing down of angles etc
-Developing the right mental state
-Physical attributes - size, strength etc
Outfield players tend to be deficient in some areas - not being able to tackle, not being good headers etc and you can get around those weaknesses or at least they tend not to be exposed too often, but a keeper must be able to master the above skills or at least hide the weaknesses. As Len says Deano wasn't the best at commanding his area, but was otherwise very good, before him Bob Bolder's distribution was consistent - straight into touch etc. The keeper is in my opinion the single most important player in the team - and needs time and playing experience to develop the skills, also it might be contentious but a poor keeper will cost you a lot more points than a poor striker, and invariably the mistakes (eg Exeter's keeper dropping a cross at McLeod's feet on Saturday) are a lot more likely to be remembered because they often lead to goals, a midfielder losing possession doesn't always lead straight to a goal. Maybe it's human nature at work but a striker missing an open goal doesn't get the same amount of ridicule as a keeper making a mistake and conceding a goal. Elliot is developing into a fine keeper - his best years are ahead of him, keepers mature late and if he continues to work hard he'll be very good at his craft, and let's give him that time, sure he makes mistakes but then all players do.
[cite]Posted By: oohaahmortimer[/cite]i don't know what this 'he is only gonna get better' statement is based on yes a lot of keepers improve with age but against this some of the young pretenders to the england crown in recent years have got worse imo richard wright, paul robinson, scott carson
The three keepers you name all had massive reputations at young ages...If you look at Robinson and Carson, they suffered massive losses in confidence when they made high profile mistakes for England and Wright went to Arsenal early and made mistakes. To be a top goalkeeper you need to be very strong mentally to recover from mistakes, something I'm not certain Carson has, whereas David James has managed to shrug off his "calamity" tag. If we allow Elliot an environment where he can gain experience in a less high profile situation (ie. not for England or a top 4 club), then there's no reason why he won't only get better from the experience, as the likes of Dean Kiely and Robert Green did at lower league clubs.
Through his mum if I remember correctly from his time here. Again, if i remember rightly, look at any of our programmes where we used to have national flags against our players, Robbie's was always Ireland as he had played U19s.
I see Hodgson is looking at Man U's new wonderkid, Adnan Januzaj - the Belgian born, Kosovo descended winger.
Through his mum if I remember correctly from his time here. Again, if i remember rightly, look at any of our programmes where we used to have national flags against our players, Robbie's was always Ireland as he had played U19s.
I see Hodgson is looking at Man U's new wonderkid, Adnan Januzaj - the Belgian born, Kosovo descended winger.
Through his mum if I remember correctly from his time here. Again, if i remember rightly, look at any of our programmes where we used to have national flags against our players, Robbie's was always Ireland as he had played U19s.
I see Hodgson is looking at Man U's new wonderkid, Adnan Januzaj - the Belgian born, Kosovo descended winger.
Yep, I know Scoham. Really just shows that the world is a smaller place and we are more mobile than we have ever been.
Look at the number of non-Germans playing for Germany, the French colonial Africans playing for France (including my favourite in recent years, Zidane). Robbie as a parental connection to Ireland, just as Singapore-born Terry Butcher had to England.
Anyway, the point of this was to just wish Robbie well with the squad. Unlikely to feature, but it's a start and he's still got a lot of years ahead of him.
Comments
Ok then, he's only going to get worse with experience.
you know i'm making the point he could get better or worse no guarantee of either ... or he may stay the same..... a third tier keeper
The syaing is...that a keeper is only as good as the defenders in front of him and maybe it's no coincidence that he and Llera both appeared to have their worst game of the eason last night.
The ability to command your area comes with experience and some keepers never really get it.
I yield to nobody in my admiration for Deano but if he had a weakness that was where it was. Carson (ok he was young when with us) and Weaver were not really commanding either.
I wasn't there to see what appeared to be something of a horror show last night but the encouraging thing about Elliot in my opinion is that he is already trying to take responsibility for his area and that is a good sign in my book.
All keepers make mistakes. David James for example yet he is still arguably England's first choice.
In no order - and there may be some I miss out:
-Shot stopping ability/reflexes
-Being supple, diving etc
-Good on crosses
-Communicating with his defenders and commanding his box, organising defensive walls etc
-Distributing the ball
-Being able to catch, punch, kick the ball clear
-Decision making skills - knowing when to come for a cross/commit himself and when not to
-Positioning/narrowing down of angles etc
-Developing the right mental state
-Physical attributes - size, strength etc
Outfield players tend to be deficient in some areas - not being able to tackle, not being good headers etc and you can get around those weaknesses or at least they tend not to be exposed too often, but a keeper must be able to master the above skills or at least hide the weaknesses. As Len says Deano wasn't the best at commanding his area, but was otherwise very good, before him Bob Bolder's distribution was consistent - straight into touch etc. The keeper is in my opinion the single most important player in the team - and needs time and playing experience to develop the skills, also it might be contentious but a poor keeper will cost you a lot more points than a poor striker, and invariably the mistakes (eg Exeter's keeper dropping a cross at McLeod's feet on Saturday) are a lot more likely to be remembered because they often lead to goals, a midfielder losing possession doesn't always lead straight to a goal. Maybe it's human nature at work but a striker missing an open goal doesn't get the same amount of ridicule as a keeper making a mistake and conceding a goal. Elliot is developing into a fine keeper - his best years are ahead of him, keepers mature late and if he continues to work hard he'll be very good at his craft, and let's give him that time, sure he makes mistakes but then all players do.
The three keepers you name all had massive reputations at young ages...If you look at Robinson and Carson, they suffered massive losses in confidence when they made high profile mistakes for England and Wright went to Arsenal early and made mistakes. To be a top goalkeeper you need to be very strong mentally to recover from mistakes, something I'm not certain Carson has, whereas David James has managed to shrug off his "calamity" tag. If we allow Elliot an environment where he can gain experience in a less high profile situation (ie. not for England or a top 4 club), then there's no reason why he won't only get better from the experience, as the likes of Dean Kiely and Robert Green did at lower league clubs.
Congratulations Robbie (mé is d'éirinn) Elliot :-)
Easy game v Germany
I see Hodgson is looking at Man U's new wonderkid, Adnan Januzaj - the Belgian born, Kosovo descended winger.
Don't think he's here on holiday though ;-)
Look at the number of non-Germans playing for Germany, the French colonial Africans playing for France (including my favourite in recent years, Zidane). Robbie as a parental connection to Ireland, just as Singapore-born Terry Butcher had to England.
Anyway, the point of this was to just wish Robbie well with the squad. Unlikely to feature, but it's a start and he's still got a lot of years ahead of him.