[cite]Posted By: Oakster[/cite]The guy next door to me is competing as a Cross Country skier in the Winter Olympics in February next year - he trains 6 days a week & is fitter than any professional footballer you could care to mention. The stuff he is doing is much more physically demanding than a game of football.
He doesn't rest at all - i think he takes a month off every year at the end of the season, but he has access to top class nutritionists, psychologists & physiotherapists. He also sleeps for several hours a day after training.
I would argue that any player that needs to rest after 1 or 2 games a week, has an underlying fitness issue & should not be playing in the first place. The only argument i could see for resting a player is one coming back from injury or a much older player with dodgy joints.
To be fair thats a completely different sport, and very different in way of fitness. He doesn't do little short sprints at full pace throughout his race and doesn't have people slide tackling him, he's not streching up to make an header or at full stretch to get his toe to the ball . I struggle to see what they have in common. I do think that unless injured most players should only just be reaching their peak fitness since the start of the season. So to rest them now would not make to much sense.
Some of the demands on the body are different for sure, you could argue that football players are not competing in sub-zero temperatures, at high altitude, on snow/ice while balanced on skis with less the width than a credit card. There's no doubt that pro-footballers are incredibly fit, however these athletes out-rank any other sport when it comes to aerobic fitness.
Anyway my point is that you shouldn't rest players for any other reason than illness, injury or personal/mental problems. Loss of form or poor fitness = reserve team football!!
''you could argue that football players are not competing in sub-zero temperatures, at high altitude, on snow/ice while balanced on skis with less the width than a credit card.''
Exactly, Oakster. That just shows what's gone wrong with the modern game and how footballers today have all grown soft and pampered. Now in my day, it wasn't a proper game unless we played on ice in sub-zero temperatures. Although in those days we went barefoot. None of these new-fangled credit cards on our feet. We didn't even know what a credit card was. All we had was the Co-op divi, three lumps of coal a week and our cod liver oil rations....
[cite]Posted By: nigel w[/cite]''you could argue that football players are not competing in sub-zero temperatures, at high altitude, on snow/ice while balanced on skis with less the width than a credit card.''
Exactly, Oakster. That just shows what's gone wrong with the modern game and how footballers today have all grown soft and pampered. Now in my day, it wasn't a proper game unless we played on ice in sub-zero temperatures. Although in those days we went barefoot. None of these new-fangled credit cards on our feet. We didn't even know what a credit card was. All we had was the Co-op divi, three lumps of coal a week and our cod liver oil rations....
I was wondering about Boundary Park when I wrote that - thinking maybe there are some exceptions to this statement!!
reality check, last season Sam cdnt do more than 60 minutes altho whether that was mental or physical who knows, also Shelvey is younger and won't be used to playing senior football week in week out as its much more physically demanding than youth/reserve levels. At the same time can Burton lead the line every week at his young age.. Finally it has been documented week in week out that various players are struggling with injuries.
I think you have to be a realist about this, and of course its the judgement call of a decent manager. Yes you want to keep a stable 11 week in week out but balance that against the realities of your squad. Now that our record is no longer 100% I would be inclined to give any strugglers form/injury wise a rest, but agree it is a bit early to rest players for any other reasons.
I think the problem with the wait until we have to thinking is that we'll be bringing in players with absolutely no match fitness and will probably be disappointed with them and end up rushing back injured or tired players. Rafa-tation is a bit much but I think that there's a real risk in the current statitic team selection. Then again, it'd take some nuts to drop anyone. Not sure that what we're doing is great for Jonjo in the long-run though: depends on whether you're looking at it from the player's or the club's perspective I suppose.
I do worry about some of our players getting so tied in matches. they have one a week recently yet still look knackered. its understanable of players like Jonjo and the other youngsters but why Sam looks dead after 60mins is beyond me
[quote][cite]Posted By: Dazzler21[/cite][quote][cite]Posted By: christian da valiant[/cite]Success breads success Gents :)[/quote] so what you are saying is the confidence from past success is the main ingredient for baking up more success[/quote]
All very good saying give the subs more playing time but if PP did that and we lost a lead or a game (see Wycombe and Hereford) he gets stick for changing the side when we are on top.
If he doesn't play Shelvey at Norwich and we don't win he will be slagged off for not playing his best player and changing a winning side.
When you are 4 - 0 up at Tranmere by all means give Solly, Wagstaff, McLeod etc a run out but don't give players game time when it's 1 - 1 at home to Soton unless it is to win that match, not to give them match fitness.
With luck the injuries and suspensions won't all come at once so a Solly or Sodje can slot into an otherwise unchanged and confident side.
It is a judgement call. Bailey was according to Ketman 70% fit. If any of you knew that prior to the game would you have dropped him? What if he was 90% fit. Do you drop your captain and take that battle and goal scoring out of the team or do you take a calculated risk and play him? Not easy to say in even in hindsight let alone at 2.30pm on Saturday when you haven't seen the Soton teamsheet.
As pointed out already, several players have been playing while carrying in injury.
The worrying thing is these players may not be giving their injuries time to heal properly - with the result that they may aggravate the injury further, or slowed reactions can cause another injury. In this situation, it may cause problems later in the season when those players could be out for extended periods - and then they might be really missed, and results suffer.
It's a fine balance.
At the moment, we have a team that nobody wants to be left out of - so they are desperate to play because they know there's a hungry squad player wanting their place. Which is how the system should work, of course.
I'm not talking here about players burning out ...... that could be an issue later on, but it shouldn't be yet.
However Shelvey at 17 is almost certainly still growing so needs to monitored carefully.
My daughter has a Sports Science BTEC and there was a case study suggesting that one reason Michael Owen has had the amount of injuries he has is because he was over played and over trained as a teenager.
I'm not suggesting (at the moment) that this is the case with Shelvey but it is something that needs watching.
The situation is similar with Dailly as he is older and may no longer have the legs. However Minto's comments are encouraging regarding his fitness and he certainly looked fine to me on Saturday.
There/s nothing you can do for a cracked rib, except let it take it's course ........ but bugger me, it can't half hurt if it gets knocked again. Usually takes about 6 weeks or so to heal.
But even though it's painful, it's not like a ligament or muscle injury that can stop you playing.
So a rib injury is just about gritting your teeth. And that painkiller injection.
I asked Parky about the possibility of burnout (some thought i was talking about Barnet) with some of the players being young and others a bit older shall we say. Parky said that they try to manage the players as best as possible and some weeks they will encourage players to take it a bit easier but then the following week they may push them a bit harder than normal i.e. he mentioned McLeod i think doing a session of swimming on top of normal training.
mcleod was doing extra work as didnt play in reserve game, JJ was swimming with injured players to have a break. Dailly is stopped from doing every session.
[cite]Posted By: Oggy Red[/cite]There/s nothing you can do for a cracked rib, except let it take it's course ........ but bugger me, it can't half hurt if it gets knocked again. Usually takes about 6 weeks or so to heal.
But even though it's painful, it's not like a ligament or muscle injury that can stop you playing.
So a rib injury is just about gritting your teeth. And that painkiller injection.
But can stop you sleeping and coughing or laughing is really painful
[cite]Posted By: Oggy Red[/cite]There/s nothing you can do for a cracked rib, except let it take it's course ........ but bugger me, it can't half hurt if it gets knocked again. Usually takes about 6 weeks or so to heal.
But even though it's painful, it's not like a ligament or muscle injury that can stop you playing.
So a rib injury is just about gritting your teeth. And that painkiller injection.
But can stop you sleeping and coughing or laughing is really painful
The other thing with a cracked rib apart from the pain, depending on the severity, is the danger of a puntured lung if you get another knock.
I've cracked ribs twice in my time and was advised by the quack to avoid contact sports for that reason. Mind you my sport was rugby rather than football.
Comments
Some of the demands on the body are different for sure, you could argue that football players are not competing in sub-zero temperatures, at high altitude, on snow/ice while balanced on skis with less the width than a credit card. There's no doubt that pro-footballers are incredibly fit, however these athletes out-rank any other sport when it comes to aerobic fitness.
Anyway my point is that you shouldn't rest players for any other reason than illness, injury or personal/mental problems. Loss of form or poor fitness = reserve team football!!
and you get to shoot stuff as well :-)
Exactly, Oakster. That just shows what's gone wrong with the modern game and how footballers today have all grown soft and pampered. Now in my day, it wasn't a proper game unless we played on ice in sub-zero temperatures. Although in those days we went barefoot. None of these new-fangled credit cards on our feet. We didn't even know what a credit card was. All we had was the Co-op divi, three lumps of coal a week and our cod liver oil rations....
but in general stick with a winning team.
I was wondering about Boundary Park when I wrote that - thinking maybe there are some exceptions to this statement!!
I think you have to be a realist about this, and of course its the judgement call of a decent manager. Yes you want to keep a stable 11 week in week out but balance that against the realities of your squad. Now that our record is no longer 100% I would be inclined to give any strugglers form/injury wise a rest, but agree it is a bit early to rest players for any other reasons.
lol!I wasn't using my loaf with my spelling!
If he doesn't play Shelvey at Norwich and we don't win he will be slagged off for not playing his best player and changing a winning side.
When you are 4 - 0 up at Tranmere by all means give Solly, Wagstaff, McLeod etc a run out but don't give players game time when it's 1 - 1 at home to Soton unless it is to win that match, not to give them match fitness.
With luck the injuries and suspensions won't all come at once so a Solly or Sodje can slot into an otherwise unchanged and confident side.
It is a judgement call. Bailey was according to Ketman 70% fit. If any of you knew that prior to the game would you have dropped him? What if he was 90% fit. Do you drop your captain and take that battle and goal scoring out of the team or do you take a calculated risk and play him? Not easy to say in even in hindsight let alone at 2.30pm on Saturday when you haven't seen the Soton teamsheet.
The worrying thing is these players may not be giving their injuries time to heal properly - with the result that they may aggravate the injury further, or slowed reactions can cause another injury. In this situation, it may cause problems later in the season when those players could be out for extended periods - and then they might be really missed, and results suffer.
It's a fine balance.
At the moment, we have a team that nobody wants to be left out of - so they are desperate to play because they know there's a hungry squad player wanting their place. Which is how the system should work, of course.
I'm not talking here about players burning out ...... that could be an issue later on, but it shouldn't be yet.
However Shelvey at 17 is almost certainly still growing so needs to monitored carefully.
My daughter has a Sports Science BTEC and there was a case study suggesting that one reason Michael Owen has had the amount of injuries he has is because he was over played and over trained as a teenager.
I'm not suggesting (at the moment) that this is the case with Shelvey but it is something that needs watching.
The situation is similar with Dailly as he is older and may no longer have the legs. However Minto's comments are encouraging regarding his fitness and he certainly looked fine to me on Saturday.
But even though it's painful, it's not like a ligament or muscle injury that can stop you playing.
So a rib injury is just about gritting your teeth. And that painkiller injection.
But can stop you sleeping and coughing or laughing is really painful
The other thing with a cracked rib apart from the pain, depending on the severity, is the danger of a puntured lung if you get another knock.
I've cracked ribs twice in my time and was advised by the quack to avoid contact sports for that reason. Mind you my sport was rugby rather than football.