[cite]Posted By: Addickson's God[/cite]Am I the only one underwhelmed by Frazer's defending so far? Got caught wrong side at least twice on Saturday and has struggled to prevent crosses going over all season. But whereas Moo2 was heavily criticised as a poor defender, Richardson is getting good reviews. Perhaps the difference between playing in a loosing side and an unbeaten one, or backline that doesn't look like conceding in every attack. Hopefully the guy can learn under the new regime, Breaker was a full back after all.
No, several of us have raused their concerns, but he's deff a step up from mouts defensively (just seems to get done for pace out wide), and just as good going forward. Disappointed that mouts has never been given a proper chance but sometimes thats how it goes I guess, just frustrating how many players we have tried there in the last 2 yrs.
[quote][cite]Posted By: Ketman[/cite][quote][cite]Posted By: golfaddick[/cite]"aledgedly" he was "seeing" one of his team mates Mum's (not wife) and had a bad attitude and not condusive to a harmonious dressing room.[/quote]
I made enquiries about this & as with most rumours it is untrue ![/quote]
[quote][cite]Posted By: Scoham[/cite]Yassin is more likely to try and play his way out of trouble and give the ball away, clear the ball to an opponent, that kind of thing. When Richardson makes mistakes defensively they aren't as noticeable.[/quote]
From what I saw, he didnt try to play his way out of trouble once. He would take people on but when ever he was in trouble, he kicked the ball out and went to pick up his man.
Through out the 80mins I saw, he only lost his man once, who was picked by the center back, and Yassin covered his man.
[cite]Posted By: golfaddick[/cite]"aledgedly" he was "seeing" one of his team mates Mum's (not wife) and had a bad attitude and not condusive to a harmonious dressing room.
I made enquiries about this & as with most rumours it is untrue !
[cite]Posted By: Addickson's God[/cite]Am I the only one underwhelmed by Frazer's defending so far? Got caught wrong side at least twice on Saturday and has struggled to prevent crosses going over all season. But whereas Moo2 was heavily criticised as a poor defender, Richardson is getting good reviews. Perhaps the difference between playing in a loosing side and an unbeaten one, or backline that doesn't look like conceding in every attack. Hopefully the guy can learn under the new regime, Breaker was a full back after all.
On several occasions against S'ton you could see the 'Leeds' in Richardon as he got more than stuck in .
At times we will need that in this division
I guess it's irrelevant really now but did he arrive with a bad attitude or did he develop one as he was left to rot in the reserves while a series of singularly inferior players were given the chance to make the No. 2 shirt their own and failed miserably...
[cite]Posted By: kinveachyaddick[/cite]I guess it's irrelevant really now but did he arrive with a bad attitude or did he develop one as he was left to rot in the reserves while a series of singularly inferior players were given the chance to make the No. 2 shirt their own and failed miserably...
Semedo and Racon were both dropped as well but didn't act up in the way Moo2 did nor did they make as many mistakes or alienate their team mates by not holding their hands up when they did.
Moo2 obviously has some ability and maybe in other circumstances would have flourished at Charlton but he didn't. Now we are picking players as much on character as ability Richardson is going to get in the side every time and if he's not fit then Solly will step in. Solly is the future IMHO, not Moo2.
[cite]Posted By: kinveachyaddick[/cite]I guess it's irrelevant really now but did he arrive with a bad attitude or did he develop one as he was left to rot in the reserves while a series of singularly inferior players were given the chance to make the No. 2 shirt their own and failed miserably...
Semedo and Racon were both dropped as well but didn't act up in the way Moo2 did nor did they make as many mistakes or alienate their team mates by not holding their hands up when they did.
Moo2 obviously has some ability and maybe in other circumstances would have flourished at Charlton but he didn't. Now we are picking players as much on character as ability Richardson is going to get in the side every time and if he's not fit then Solly will step in. Solly is the future IMHO, not Moo2.
Were Semedo or Racon replaced with a series of short-term inferior loanees? I can remember Bailey, Holland etc playing ahead of them and they were full time club employees.
When Moutouakil did get some opportunities he seemed to work hard only to find himself dropped either when a new loanee arrived or came back from injury, or wasn't cup tied. I appreciate that maybe he didn't help himself and there were rumours of him having an affair with another player's mother and having a fight with Arter, which may or may not be true but suggest that his attitude to being dropped wasn't spot on. Then again we supposedly want players with a bit of desire in them and willingness to fight forthe cause and he seems to have that, maybe giving Moo2 an extended run and told to prove himself would have been better man-management rather than leaving him to rot. It might come as a bit of surprise to you but our management of players and resources generally over the last couple of seasons has been more than somewhat flawed. Given the cock-ups that Pardew made and his arrogance I am quite willing to believe that he could have alienated Moo2.
And who's to say that he wouldn't be performing as well as Racon, Semedo etc this season? From what I've seen of Richardson I think Moo2 is probably better in some regards and has performed at a higher level than Richardson. That said I've no problems with Richardson and I think he'll do ok at Championship level if and when we get promoted.
I think Semedo and Racon were not dropped but got injured. We still don't know the whole story, but if the guy throws a paddy OK drop him, but here we are talking about a spell in Coventry that spanned two managers and about five loanees. Was he in that much of a sulk, or were there cultural/language difficulties involved? If he was not wanted in the squad, why have we been paying his not inconsiderable wages until now, rather than loan/sell him earlier? Smells of bad/stubborn management to me.
[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]Who to believe on Moo2's character, ability and commitment:
Mark Kinsella or BFR?
Let me think for a millisecond before I decide.
Let me see...
A series of listless and abject team displays that went on pretty much all season.
Leads thrown away...especially late in games and also at home and not to more talented sides, but outfits with more unity, purpose, commitment and desire to win.
A management that threw a record number of players into games, played players out of position and utilised tactics that didn't suit their particular abilities.
Players not performing for each other, who for example failed to track back or to complete simple tasks, such clearing the ball from defence, holding onto possession or letting onto one and sometimes two goal leads slip away even though the clock was nearing the 90th minute.
A record run of games without a win...
Relegation being an odds on certainty from Xmas onwards and a mercy killing when it arrived etc etc.
And now I'm led to believe that we had managerial geniuses on our coaching staff during all this.
Of course piss poor man-management had nothing to do with it and it was all the fault of a French right-back who was repeatedly passed over by a series of mostly under-performing loanee right-backs, some of whom were even playing there out of position. Hmm I can't think why he'd be hacked off can you?
If you see him please congratulate Mark Kinsella on getting us promoted last season Henners, I'm sure the record books show us as having been relegated, but I reckon some of that Irish blarney spirit must have confused you. Given that last year was probably the worst Charlton team in our history, so I'm quite prepared to believe that Moutouakil was badly managed and equally that he reacted badly to his management, but I don't think that the fault was all his, if our coaching staff had covered themselves in glory I'd be prepared to put this down to one player's bad attitude, but given the way the team were mis-managed I think you should be a little more objective, and perhaps a little less star-struck when chatting with former players.
I also recall you repeating here the rumour alleging that he had an affair with the mother of one of the players, or do you deny that? Strange now that rumour has been torpedoed that you haven't repeated it, maybe Mark Kinsella was responsible for that piece of mis-information as well...
Semedo has been pretty much first choice when fit since he's been at the club from what I can recall and correctly so as he's clearly a class operator in that holding midfield role
on Moo2 specifically I thought he would get a chance when Pardew got the chop but Parky clearly had a master survival plan in my mind - no room for talented or rough diamonds but 'solid', 'reliable' pros on loan to try and get us out of the mess - it didn't work - we went 20 odd games or however many before he won a match and were relegated, bottom by miles and miles
amazingly due to the fact the club were/are skint he wasn't sacked and was given a second chance - very fortuitously for him
but credit where's it due he seized it with both hands, made some very astute, even inspired free signings and we've made a better start to the season than even the glass half-full mob (of which I'm proud to be one) could have expected so no complaints there and Richardson looks a very good signing for this division
as for Moo2, we all seem to agree we won't see him in a Charlton shirt again but given his youth and clear talent and ability I think we'll be seeing him in the Premiership sooner rather than later and doing well
no room for talented or rough diamonds but 'solid', 'reliable' pros on loan to try and get us out of the mess
.........
So Danny Butterfield was a solid and reliable pro? He couldn't even make either the Palace starting XI or even their match day squad and seemingly wasn't wanted even in case of injury to whoever was keeping him out the team.
i think halford and cranie are better than moots they are plying their trade at a decent level not in the non league of scotland ... still our magnificent management/coaching staff managed to get em all under performing
[cite]Posted By: oohaahmortimer[/cite]i think halford and cranie are better than moots they are plying their trade at a decent level not in the non league of scotland ... still our magnificent management/coaching staff managed to get em all under performing
At least we were consistent - in managing to get the whole team to under-perform.
Martin Cranie hasn't set the world alight. After returning to Pompey he languished in their reserves and was sold to Coventry for an undisclosed fee in August, obviously the stint at Charlton set him on the path to greater glory.
As for Halford, he should never have left Judas Priest, ironic though that he left two previous clubs with question marks over his attitude and ability to fit in, yet replaced a player who the rest of the squad and more importantly the then Supporter's Director didn't like.
[cite]Posted By: kinveachyaddick[/cite]as for Moo2, we all seem to agree we won't see him in a Charlton shirt again but given his youth and clear talent and ability I think we'll be seeing him in the Premiership sooner rather than later and doing well
I reckon that Moo2 will end up at a reasonable elvel of football, probably in France or Spain. he did not cut it at a desperate premier club on trial over the summer (Portsmouth) and I am not sure if he can cut it at that level, but IMHO he is of Championship level.
[cite]Posted By: Mortimerician[/cite]The removal of Moo2 from first team affairs certainly improved the togetherness of the squad and the performances of some other players (like Kelly).
Alot of people have been removed from the first team - Moo2 is just one of many.
diplomacy doesn't appear to be a strength of his! http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/2009/10/07/motherwell-loan-star-yassin-moutaoakin-i-want-old-firm-move-86908-21729082/
Cranie was crap as a full back and not much better at centre back
Moots was dropped after the Reading game despite pretty much being motm, big loss and questionable management in my view, how many good players are we going to lose due to this excuse? the same management team who sanctioned Grays purchase, and sold big Chris during a goals crisis despite him being our leading goal scoring striker. Little Chris also on the way out.. how many talents do we lose to this management style? Would be different as someone else alluded to if we hadn't been relegated twice now..
Comments
No, several of us have raused their concerns, but he's deff a step up from mouts defensively (just seems to get done for pace out wide), and just as good going forward. Disappointed that mouts has never been given a proper chance but sometimes thats how it goes I guess, just frustrating how many players we have tried there in the last 2 yrs.
I made enquiries about this & as with most rumours it is untrue ![/quote]
I thought he had a fight with Harry Arter?
From what I saw, he didnt try to play his way out of trouble once. He would take people on but when ever he was in trouble, he kicked the ball out and went to pick up his man.
Through out the 80mins I saw, he only lost his man once, who was picked by the center back, and Yassin covered his man.
On several occasions against S'ton you could see the 'Leeds' in Richardon as he got more than stuck in .
At times we will need that in this division
As we've seen, Parky says he is only signing players with character and the right mentality.
No one can deny Richardson's approach and attitude to a game.
We could have done with some of that in our team during the last few years.
According to a club official he had a bad attitude and was a bad influence on the other French players.
Semedo and Racon were both dropped as well but didn't act up in the way Moo2 did nor did they make as many mistakes or alienate their team mates by not holding their hands up when they did.
Moo2 obviously has some ability and maybe in other circumstances would have flourished at Charlton but he didn't. Now we are picking players as much on character as ability Richardson is going to get in the side every time and if he's not fit then Solly will step in. Solly is the future IMHO, not Moo2.
Were Semedo or Racon replaced with a series of short-term inferior loanees? I can remember Bailey, Holland etc playing ahead of them and they were full time club employees.
When Moutouakil did get some opportunities he seemed to work hard only to find himself dropped either when a new loanee arrived or came back from injury, or wasn't cup tied. I appreciate that maybe he didn't help himself and there were rumours of him having an affair with another player's mother and having a fight with Arter, which may or may not be true but suggest that his attitude to being dropped wasn't spot on. Then again we supposedly want players with a bit of desire in them and willingness to fight forthe cause and he seems to have that, maybe giving Moo2 an extended run and told to prove himself would have been better man-management rather than leaving him to rot. It might come as a bit of surprise to you but our management of players and resources generally over the last couple of seasons has been more than somewhat flawed. Given the cock-ups that Pardew made and his arrogance I am quite willing to believe that he could have alienated Moo2.
And who's to say that he wouldn't be performing as well as Racon, Semedo etc this season? From what I've seen of Richardson I think Moo2 is probably better in some regards and has performed at a higher level than Richardson. That said I've no problems with Richardson and I think he'll do ok at Championship level if and when we get promoted.
Mark Kinsella or BFR?
Let me think for a millisecond before I decide.
Let me see...
A series of listless and abject team displays that went on pretty much all season.
Leads thrown away...especially late in games and also at home and not to more talented sides, but outfits with more unity, purpose, commitment and desire to win.
A management that threw a record number of players into games, played players out of position and utilised tactics that didn't suit their particular abilities.
Players not performing for each other, who for example failed to track back or to complete simple tasks, such clearing the ball from defence, holding onto possession or letting onto one and sometimes two goal leads slip away even though the clock was nearing the 90th minute.
A record run of games without a win...
Relegation being an odds on certainty from Xmas onwards and a mercy killing when it arrived etc etc.
And now I'm led to believe that we had managerial geniuses on our coaching staff during all this.
Of course piss poor man-management had nothing to do with it and it was all the fault of a French right-back who was repeatedly passed over by a series of mostly under-performing loanee right-backs, some of whom were even playing there out of position. Hmm I can't think why he'd be hacked off can you?
If you see him please congratulate Mark Kinsella on getting us promoted last season Henners, I'm sure the record books show us as having been relegated, but I reckon some of that Irish blarney spirit must have confused you. Given that last year was probably the worst Charlton team in our history, so I'm quite prepared to believe that Moutouakil was badly managed and equally that he reacted badly to his management, but I don't think that the fault was all his, if our coaching staff had covered themselves in glory I'd be prepared to put this down to one player's bad attitude, but given the way the team were mis-managed I think you should be a little more objective, and perhaps a little less star-struck when chatting with former players.
I also recall you repeating here the rumour alleging that he had an affair with the mother of one of the players, or do you deny that? Strange now that rumour has been torpedoed that you haven't repeated it, maybe Mark Kinsella was responsible for that piece of mis-information as well...
amazingly due to the fact the club were/are skint he wasn't sacked and was given a second chance - very fortuitously for him
but credit where's it due he seized it with both hands, made some very astute, even inspired free signings and we've made a better start to the season than even the glass half-full mob (of which I'm proud to be one) could have expected so no complaints there and Richardson looks a very good signing for this division
as for Moo2, we all seem to agree we won't see him in a Charlton shirt again but given his youth and clear talent and ability I think we'll be seeing him in the Premiership sooner rather than later and doing well
.........
So Danny Butterfield was a solid and reliable pro? He couldn't even make either the Palace starting XI or even their match day squad and seemingly wasn't wanted even in case of injury to whoever was keeping him out the team.
Three years and you've worked out how to quote. Well done : - )
At least we were consistent - in managing to get the whole team to under-perform.
Martin Cranie hasn't set the world alight. After returning to Pompey he languished in their reserves and was sold to Coventry for an undisclosed fee in August, obviously the stint at Charlton set him on the path to greater glory.
As for Halford, he should never have left Judas Priest, ironic though that he left two previous clubs with question marks over his attitude and ability to fit in, yet replaced a player who the rest of the squad and more importantly the then Supporter's Director didn't like.
I reckon that Moo2 will end up at a reasonable elvel of football, probably in France or Spain. he did not cut it at a desperate premier club on trial over the summer (Portsmouth) and I am not sure if he can cut it at that level, but IMHO he is of Championship level.
The rumours about mother forking were malicious and ill founded though.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/2009/10/07/motherwell-loan-star-yassin-moutaoakin-i-want-old-firm-move-86908-21729082/
Moots was dropped after the Reading game despite pretty much being motm, big loss and questionable management in my view, how many good players are we going to lose due to this excuse? the same management team who sanctioned Grays purchase, and sold big Chris during a goals crisis despite him being our leading goal scoring striker. Little Chris also on the way out.. how many talents do we lose to this management style? Would be different as someone else alluded to if we hadn't been relegated twice now..
(rant over)