People are reading too much into the 4-4-2 chant. And there's no way Parky pumped his fist as a reaction to that chant, he was just celebrating the goal like the rest of us.
[cite]Posted By: WSS[/cite]
[cite]Posted By: Salad[/cite]should've started chanting 451 after we scored :-)
We did. ;-)
You must've been sitting just in front of me then! There was a bloke a few seats along who hated Lloyd Sam more than anyone in the world.
[cite]Posted By: floydandharvey[/cite]Very very telling that the boos were coming from the right hand side of 'our' stand. The tickets were sold in order D, C, B then A, so the ones chanting are the ones who only bought their tickets late on - and many on the back of Saturday's win. Fairweather fans? Too fucking right. Those who bought the initial away end allocation - ie the left side (C&D) of the stand took no part in the anti-Parky/442 nonsense. The fairweathers can fuck off. Luckily I doubt we'll see them tossers at any other away game bar Brentford.
We took 3000 fans to an away match - if as you say 1000 or so were 'fairweather' fans then that leaves the club with about 2,000 'real' supporters and 9500 seasonticket holders...what a load of sh1te.
as said above, crap, I was in Block B (had entrance B on the ticket) and bought from the initial allocation, so that kinda blows that theory out of the water - plenty of people around me who I knew and who were 'proper charlton' and I didn't hear any boos coming from where I was???
[cite]Posted By: floydandharvey[/cite]Very very telling that the boos were coming from the right hand side of 'our' stand. The tickets were sold in order D, C, B then A, so the ones chanting are the ones who only bought their tickets late on - and many on the back of Saturday's win. Fairweather fans? Too fucking right. Those who bought the initial away end allocation - ie the left side (C&D) of the stand took no part in the anti-Parky/442 nonsense. The fairweathers can fuck off. Luckily I doubt we'll see them tossers at any other away game bar Brentford.
I was to the extreme left, does that mean I'm a proper, proper Charlton fan ? I think I may have sung "4-4-2" last night but in my defence I was very drunk and would have sung just about anything !!!
[quote][cite]Posted By: mascot88[/cite]FFS..... when we went 442 against wycombe it all unravelled.... and fast.... the 451 or the 4411 whatever you want to call it works.... 3 wins...
Parky deserves ZERO stick now... ZERO... hes done atough job hasnt walked convinced shelvey and bailey and racon to stay....
christ....
we'd start booing wins next.....[/quote] We. Were. Relegated. In. Last. Place. In. The. Championship. With. One. Of. The. Highest. Wage. Bills.
Sorry, but you must have complete mid-term memory loss. It was with this spectacularly effective formation that we suffered our most humiliating runs and "enjoyed" one of the worst Championship seasons, ever. EVER! Last night was basically a case of our formation being mismatched to the opposition and Parky failing to adapt it. Basically, because we have a first team that contrains a number of players more than capable of starring at the top end of the Championship or even above one day. Quality told in the end. As Isaw observed, that strike from Jonjo, made all the difference. Before all the whiners start, just to be explicit: I'm not saying he's not doing well, I'm just saying that having us at the top end of League One doesn't qualify him for a blowjob, as even the most blinkered individual must see that he deserves a decent slice of the responsibility for our current mess.
On a seperate note, I heard no booing (from close to the front far left, facing the pitch).
[cite]Posted By: McLovin[/cite]as even the most blinkered individual must see that he deserves a decent slice of the responsibility for our current mess.
As he does for the current run of results, the fact that we have not lost at home since March, the obvious renewed team spirit and resilience, the building of a side with no funds....
I really think confidence around November/December was perhaps a lot worse than we realise. A new manager wouldn't have just come in and turned things around instantly, wouldn't be surprised if there were a lot of little things that needed sorting out. Like someone said about Parky breaking up the cliques and getting rid of certain players. Having the likes of Todorov around when he didn't seem too bothered about getting in the team, or Ambrose who was never going to play well consistently or offer what we needed had to go, and the team spirit is probably better for it.
Look we have many championship players, and the best use of them is in 4-5-1. But this is also a team in the champ that could very easily get relegated again. If you play 4-5-1, essentially it has to be fluid into a 4-3-3, whereby both wings become wing forwards.
We don't and won't, we are getting away with it against OK League One sides. Whatever happens if we can't play higher up the pitch and with more pace then come the last days of summer and the long colder days of autumn we will start struggling. A few tired players, and a few injuries and this 4-5-1 will be find it hard to get out their own half in winter. Yes we'll do OK but without someone sorting out this midfield that likes to give away possession we'll have a hard winter.
I should add as well that Parky's done pretty much the best we could expect of him. Just doesn't mean this squad/tactics is quite there yet.
He can't improve the squad significantly without funds though. Sure we will struggle when injuries occur, i would have thought (and his comments have indicated) he has plans in place to strengthen the squad, but can't realise them until the event that cannot be named takes place.
[cite]Posted By: biged29[/cite]He can't improve the squad significantly without funds though. Sure we will struggle when injuries occur, i would have thought (and his comments have indicated) he has plans in place to strengthen the squad, but can't realise them until the event that cannot be named takes place.
Agree that funds will help, although I feel the jury is still out regarding Parkinsons ability to recruit. I think Parkinson is operating under similar constraints to other managers in this league, so if we do have injuries and as looks increasingly likely, suspensions, then he can 'do' something about it in terms of the team set up, the tactics, training, players brought in to the side...and i would hope he will tackle this side of his job well. In terms of Parkinsons status at the moment, the psychology is about fans who balance his present success with his 'achievements' last season. At the moment Parkinson is doing pretty good, and we should recognise that. We have a four point cushion against tripping up in the future, winning against Walsall won't change that position...if Parkinson wins against Walsall, and gets a draw at Tranmere I would say it's very good....but enjoy the moment, but be vigilant regarding the future.
[cite]Posted By: seth plum[/cite]
I feel the jury is still out regarding Parkinsons ability to recruit.
Well all i know is this summer he has not spent a single penny, and brought in 3 players that look like they are going to be excellent aquisitions. I know things are looking rosier now, but tempting players to come to us this summer was no mean feat. Burton is also now looking an excellent free signing. The only signing of his so far looks a bit questionable is Spring,
[cite]Posted By: ColinTat[/cite]Look we have many championship players, and the best use of them is in 4-5-1. But this is also a team in the champ that could very easily get relegated again. If you play 4-5-1, essentially it has to be fluid into a 4-3-3, whereby both wings become wing forwards.
We don't and won't, we are getting away with it against OK League One sides. Whatever happens if we can't play higher up the pitch and with more pace then come the last days of summer and the long colder days of autumn we will start struggling. A few tired players, and a few injuries and this 4-5-1 will be find it hard to get out their own half in winter. Yes we'll do OK but without someone sorting out this midfield that likes to give away possession we'll have a hard winter.
I should add as well that Parky's done pretty much the best we could expect of him. Just doesn't mean this squad/tactics is quite there yet.
To be fair we don't play that fluid 4-3-3 because we don't have the wide players to do it.
Wouldn't worry about this team getting relegated from the Champ, that's at least a season away, and our squad could be quite a bit different this time next year if we have been promoted.
If we went up, we'd obviously look for a better left back, I doubt Llera would be a regular, and we'd need at least better cover in midfield, better options out wide and better strikers.
We'll find it a struggle if we have injuries and suspensions yes, but hopefully in the next week and a half we'll sign a few players.
As for the midfield, how are we going to strengthen it? Where are we going to find players better than the five midfielders we have, that will sign for us, and accept that they'll be competition, not an automatic choice? I think you're being harsh about them giving away possession. We're also still slowly gaining confidence and gelling as a team, rather than buying midfielders that expect to play which could unbalance the side, I'd let them play together and I think they'll improve.
[cite]Posted By: seth plum[/cite]
I feel the jury is still out regarding Parkinsons ability to recruit.
Well all i know is this summer he has not spent a single penny, and brought in 3 players that look like they are going to be excellent aquisitions. I know things are looking rosier now, but tempting players to come to us this summer was no mean feat. Burton is also now looking an excellent free signing. The only signing of his so far looks a bit questionable is Spring,
Agree. And without Spring our back up central midfielder would be Stavrinou...
[quote][cite]Posted By: seth plum[/cite][quote][cite]Posted By: biged29[/cite]He can't improve the squad significantly without funds though. Sure we will struggle when injuries occur, i would have thought (and his comments have indicated) he has plans in place to strengthen the squad, but can't realise them until the event that cannot be named takes place.[/quote]
Agree that funds will help, although I feel the jury is still out regarding Parkinsons ability to recruit. quote]
Given our lack of money we can't spend money on buying players, that narrowed Parky's options down to those out of contract elsewhere and those still under contract but not wanted by their current teams. Then we just have to compete with a load of other clubs, I think all three defensive signings have to date worked.
The priority was to get two central defenders in after Hudson left and to make a decision on what to do at right-back - give Moo2 another chance or opt for a longer term solution. Solving those problems pretty much exhausted the budget - for signing on fees and any spare money might have been held back in reserve to replace any of our midfielders/forwards who might have left.
Last season I thought he was too reactive with his substitutions - bringing on players and changing the formation after we'd conceded and consequently we ended up chasing the game too often when perhaps an earlier substitution might have shored the defence up. Against Wycombe when we were 3-1 up I thought he did the right thing in bringing on McLeod and Gray, a goal from either and the game would have been over, it nearly worked.
We still have a threadbare squad and when the inevitable injuries/suspensions kick-in we'll be in trouble, more so if they involve either centre-back. I hope either the takeover happens soon and injects some cash into improving the squad, or that Parky can pick up another quality defender from somewhere, otherwise it means moving Youga inside and bringing in Basey at LB, dropping Semedo back, or playing Mambo.
I agree, i was embarassed when there was chanting for 442. also if we had changed would shelvey still be on the pitch? also would he be in same position? who knows
What i would like to add although i thought unecessary to change formation, i do think parky does leave it a while in subbing. unsure whether this is to give players more chance or not, but i am not one of those who would get on his back as at the momment i trust him completely and so far so good...... lets hope it continues and ppl get of his back aswell
I'm sure he'd like to go 4-4-2 at times (it worked v well at Bournemouth pre-season) but Parky's just using a 4-4-1-1 system that best utilises our strongest eleven, and its doing pretty well so far. Whether we have much real quality beyond that eleven is doubtful - who should we have brought on last night to go 4-4-2? He inherited an absolute shower from Pardew and on scant resources has gradually weeded out the mercenaries to mould a tightly knit unit who appear genuinely to care about wearing the shirt. Can we at least get behind him fopr now?
Anyway, we came from behind to win a cracking derby in front of 3000 very vocal away fans. Come on!
I think this is a bit of a fuss about nothing to be honest. From where I was sitting (the stand oppersite, above the dug out) didn't here any booing or chanting so I doubt Parkinson would have heard it either.
Scoham I'm not worried about the champ. It's a point to highlight that we still have the same weaknesses. I'm not saying we should play that '4-3-3 game' as I said we won't and that Parky does not have the squad for it. I should add that to play a very successful 4-5-1 you pretty much have to have a top quality squad. What I was trying to say is it suits us atm, but it's very difficult to play. I think if we could improve on Youga and a pacey direct winger we'd all be happy to have 4-4-2 at home.
Our five midfielders are mainly capable passers but their static nature doesn't give anyone an option, which was exactly the same last season, and they still seem happy to give up long phases ( usually a whole bloody half). I am no expert on lower league football and couldn't find you a decent pacey winger for very little. I have no idea if Jason Puncheon was that man. Having said that I've been banging on about getting Johnnie Jackson for the last year and a half. If he passed a rigorous medical I'd have got him in a shot as he is excellent on the ball and not willing to sit back and melt into defense a la all our other midfielders. Hopefully he'd help wake Racon up when he drifts in phases. Along with Jackson I'd have busted a gut to get Chris Coyne from Colchester. Both are/were free transfers, both dominate their positions and both are tactically verbose when playing.
I'm glad we got Richardson, but my main priority would have been flogging Youga to Scunny and getting a new left back. Someone who is solid and can prompt and probe our attacks down the left side. A bit similar to Mark Bowen all those years ago. In recent years Matt Lockwood was capable but he seems to have gone terribly off the boil. Unfortunately i don't know the lower leagues well enough, there was a lad at Gillingham called Danny Jackman who's exceptionally pacey and can play left back/winger who'd be worth a stab. He's played most his career in league one and just started scoring for Northampton recently. Having said thta with Richardson on one side I'd want someone positionally sharp on the other, whilst Jackman's no mug I'd err on the side of strong and stable.
Can't disagree with any of that, though I wouldn't call Shelvey static. Kind of know what you mean about the others though. Yeah we are playing 4-5-1 because it suits us, but at least we know Parky tried to get a winger in. He admitted he wanted Puncheon and then we had Small on trial for so long before signing.
Agree about left back, it's our weakness at the moment but I can see why it's not our priority. Still need cover at CB, better options up front and Small to sign a longer deal or even better a quick left footed left winger.
If we managed to find a good left winger, the problem would just be fitting him in and deciding who to drop. I guess that'll depend on the opposition and at some point we're going to have injuries to deal with. Would be interesting to see us with a proper left winger and a goalscorer alongside Burton, could change how we play quite a bit. I guess because we've managed to keep (at least until now) Bailey and Shelvey they all have to fit in somewhere, especially because we have no other options.
Ideally in two weeks time we'll have more cover at CB, a new winger, not necessarily Small, a new striker. That would give us the option to play 4-5-1 as we are now or 4-4-2 with two wingers with the other striker alongside Burton being another target to aim for. If we can adapt our team like that when needed we'll have a much better chance of having a good season.
Comments
So far this season he has not done a great deal wrong. Forget last season its this one that counts now.
And I for one have enjoyed it (so far) !
Lets get behind Parky
You must've been sitting just in front of me then! There was a bloke a few seats along who hated Lloyd Sam more than anyone in the world.
as said above, crap, I was in Block B (had entrance B on the ticket) and bought from the initial allocation, so that kinda blows that theory out of the water - plenty of people around me who I knew and who were 'proper charlton' and I didn't hear any boos coming from where I was???
I was to the extreme left, does that mean I'm a proper, proper Charlton fan ? I think I may have sung "4-4-2" last night but in my defence I was very drunk and would have sung just about anything !!!
Any boos I heard were aimed at the ref who was a total ****
Support was good last night every block, why do people have to moan...
can't moan about the result, the away attendance, the distance to travel, the weather ... *must frantically find something*
typical Charlton - we must have the moaniest fans out of anyone....
when we went 442 against wycombe it all unravelled.... and fast....
the 451 or the 4411 whatever you want to call it works....
3 wins...
Parky deserves ZERO stick now... ZERO... hes done atough job hasnt walked convinced shelvey and bailey and racon to stay....
christ....
we'd start booing wins next.....[/quote]
We. Were. Relegated. In. Last. Place. In. The. Championship. With. One. Of. The. Highest. Wage. Bills.
Sorry, but you must have complete mid-term memory loss. It was with this spectacularly effective formation that we suffered our most humiliating runs and "enjoyed" one of the worst Championship seasons, ever. EVER! Last night was basically a case of our formation being mismatched to the opposition and Parky failing to adapt it. Basically, because we have a first team that contrains a number of players more than capable of starring at the top end of the Championship or even above one day. Quality told in the end. As Isaw observed, that strike from Jonjo, made all the difference. Before all the whiners start, just to be explicit: I'm not saying he's not doing well, I'm just saying that having us at the top end of League One doesn't qualify him for a blowjob, as even the most blinkered individual must see that he deserves a decent slice of the responsibility for our current mess.
On a seperate note, I heard no booing (from close to the front far left, facing the pitch).
We don't and won't, we are getting away with it against OK League One sides. Whatever happens if we can't play higher up the pitch and with more pace then come the last days of summer and the long colder days of autumn we will start struggling. A few tired players, and a few injuries and this 4-5-1 will be find it hard to get out their own half in winter. Yes we'll do OK but without someone sorting out this midfield that likes to give away possession we'll have a hard winter.
I should add as well that Parky's done pretty much the best we could expect of him. Just doesn't mean this squad/tactics is quite there yet.
Agree that funds will help, although I feel the jury is still out regarding Parkinsons ability to recruit. I think Parkinson is operating under similar constraints to other managers in this league, so if we do have injuries and as looks increasingly likely, suspensions, then he can 'do' something about it in terms of the team set up, the tactics, training, players brought in to the side...and i would hope he will tackle this side of his job well. In terms of Parkinsons status at the moment, the psychology is about fans who balance his present success with his 'achievements' last season. At the moment Parkinson is doing pretty good, and we should recognise that. We have a four point cushion against tripping up in the future, winning against Walsall won't change that position...if Parkinson wins against Walsall, and gets a draw at Tranmere I would say it's very good....but enjoy the moment, but be vigilant regarding the future.
Well all i know is this summer he has not spent a single penny, and brought in 3 players that look like they are going to be excellent aquisitions. I know things are looking rosier now, but tempting players to come to us this summer was no mean feat. Burton is also now looking an excellent free signing. The only signing of his so far looks a bit questionable is Spring,
To be fair we don't play that fluid 4-3-3 because we don't have the wide players to do it.
Wouldn't worry about this team getting relegated from the Champ, that's at least a season away, and our squad could be quite a bit different this time next year if we have been promoted.
If we went up, we'd obviously look for a better left back, I doubt Llera would be a regular, and we'd need at least better cover in midfield, better options out wide and better strikers.
We'll find it a struggle if we have injuries and suspensions yes, but hopefully in the next week and a half we'll sign a few players.
As for the midfield, how are we going to strengthen it? Where are we going to find players better than the five midfielders we have, that will sign for us, and accept that they'll be competition, not an automatic choice? I think you're being harsh about them giving away possession. We're also still slowly gaining confidence and gelling as a team, rather than buying midfielders that expect to play which could unbalance the side, I'd let them play together and I think they'll improve.
Agree. And without Spring our back up central midfielder would be Stavrinou...
Agree that funds will help, although I feel the jury is still out regarding Parkinsons ability to recruit. quote]
Given our lack of money we can't spend money on buying players, that narrowed Parky's options down to those out of contract elsewhere and those still under contract but not wanted by their current teams. Then we just have to compete with a load of other clubs, I think all three defensive signings have to date worked.
The priority was to get two central defenders in after Hudson left and to make a decision on what to do at right-back - give Moo2 another chance or opt for a longer term solution. Solving those problems pretty much exhausted the budget - for signing on fees and any spare money might have been held back in reserve to replace any of our midfielders/forwards who might have left.
Last season I thought he was too reactive with his substitutions - bringing on players and changing the formation after we'd conceded and consequently we ended up chasing the game too often when perhaps an earlier substitution might have shored the defence up. Against Wycombe when we were 3-1 up I thought he did the right thing in bringing on McLeod and Gray, a goal from either and the game would have been over, it nearly worked.
We still have a threadbare squad and when the inevitable injuries/suspensions kick-in we'll be in trouble, more so if they involve either centre-back. I hope either the takeover happens soon and injects some cash into improving the squad, or that Parky can pick up another quality defender from somewhere, otherwise it means moving Youga inside and bringing in Basey at LB, dropping Semedo back, or playing Mambo.
What i would like to add although i thought unecessary to change formation, i do think parky does leave it a while in subbing. unsure whether this is to give players more chance or not, but i am not one of those who would get on his back as at the momment i trust him completely and so far so good...... lets hope it continues and ppl get of his back aswell
Anyway, we came from behind to win a cracking derby in front of 3000 very vocal away fans. Come on!
Our five midfielders are mainly capable passers but their static nature doesn't give anyone an option, which was exactly the same last season, and they still seem happy to give up long phases ( usually a whole bloody half). I am no expert on lower league football and couldn't find you a decent pacey winger for very little. I have no idea if Jason Puncheon was that man. Having said that I've been banging on about getting Johnnie Jackson for the last year and a half. If he passed a rigorous medical I'd have got him in a shot as he is excellent on the ball and not willing to sit back and melt into defense a la all our other midfielders. Hopefully he'd help wake Racon up when he drifts in phases. Along with Jackson I'd have busted a gut to get Chris Coyne from Colchester. Both are/were free transfers, both dominate their positions and both are tactically verbose when playing.
I'm glad we got Richardson, but my main priority would have been flogging Youga to Scunny and getting a new left back. Someone who is solid and can prompt and probe our attacks down the left side. A bit similar to Mark Bowen all those years ago. In recent years Matt Lockwood was capable but he seems to have gone terribly off the boil. Unfortunately i don't know the lower leagues well enough, there was a lad at Gillingham called Danny Jackman who's exceptionally pacey and can play left back/winger who'd be worth a stab. He's played most his career in league one and just started scoring for Northampton recently. Having said thta with Richardson on one side I'd want someone positionally sharp on the other, whilst Jackman's no mug I'd err on the side of strong and stable.
Agree about left back, it's our weakness at the moment but I can see why it's not our priority. Still need cover at CB, better options up front and Small to sign a longer deal or even better a quick left footed left winger.
If we managed to find a good left winger, the problem would just be fitting him in and deciding who to drop. I guess that'll depend on the opposition and at some point we're going to have injuries to deal with. Would be interesting to see us with a proper left winger and a goalscorer alongside Burton, could change how we play quite a bit. I guess because we've managed to keep (at least until now) Bailey and Shelvey they all have to fit in somewhere, especially because we have no other options.
Ideally in two weeks time we'll have more cover at CB, a new winger, not necessarily Small, a new striker. That would give us the option to play 4-5-1 as we are now or 4-4-2 with two wingers with the other striker alongside Burton being another target to aim for. If we can adapt our team like that when needed we'll have a much better chance of having a good season.
One thread says that the crowd were divided in vocal support .... and this one says almost the opposite !!!
You could see by the players reaction what they thought of the support last night !! See also the OS - FACT !!!
Totally agree SD that its time to stop whingeing and get behind the team AND the manager !!!
( A manager who incidentally will be inline for manager of the month should we beat Walsall )
Fate is a 'thickle' thing !!!!