after yesterday I really hope not, I know he's not fit but I've never rated the guy, no pace, can't hold the ball up, or win a ball in the air....sorry but give me Burton any day of the week over him*
[cite]Posted By: Elthamaddick[/cite]after yesterday I really hope not, I know he's not fit but I've never rated the guy, no pace, can't hold the ball up, or win a ball in the air....sorry but give me Burton any day of the week over him*
*god I can' believe I've actually typed that !
I know what you mean, I find nothing about his game stands out above other players. Does make me wonder how he was supposed to be one of the best players in the division. Apart from being a good penalty taker and probably our best finisher (but that's not great when you look at the strikers we've got), there's not much he does or is capable of that is significantly better than other strikers we have.
Let's see, if he stays, he scored two terrific goals against us in the season we bought him and he was voted the 2nd best player in the championship for the 12 months prior to joining us. He has had 18 montjhs with us, during which we have played as a low confidence team and he had a pelvic fracture for much of last season and personal distractions and finally he has only had 50 minutes, plus yesterday ion the field since the close season finished.
Maybe his bolt has been shot, maybe it has not but I do think there will be more to come from him this season, with us or Barnsley or whoever (Preston were suppossed to be in for him).
[quote][cite]Posted By: The Red Tadpole[/cite]i dont rate him either,never have and never will...burton puts more effort in.[/quote]
So if he comes good and scores a hat full of goals and gets us promoted you still won't rate him or is it just you don't believe he ever will come good, therefore that option has been discarded?
So many people on here said the same thing about Iwelumo and then he went to Wolves, was their top scorer during the first half of the season and then people moaned that we had not pocketed enough money for him.
It's a shame because he SHOULD be absolute class in this division. That's what makes me want to keep him. But.... I wonder if his heart is really in it. He has had such a shyte time with us, that he may just need to move on and not look back. The psychology of what has happened to him here may mean that he will never be able to get his head into the right place to become the player he should be.
Please prove me wrong Andy, by turning into the goal machine you know is lurking below the surface.
Also, he really should be better than Burton at holding up the ball with his height and strength - let's hope he gets his act together.
Some of the comments about Gray are I feel a little unkind. As bigstemarra says he has had a horrible time with us in terms of injuries and personal issues not to mention poor form of the team in general and being unsettled by a proposed move. He is a good player no doubt. His hold up play does imho opinion match any other striker we have and no doubt if Andy gets fit and his head right and the team plays with any degree of confidence he will score a lot of goals. He does need a pacey partner though I feel.
[cite]Posted By: ShootersHillGuru[/cite]Some of the comments about Gray are I feel a little unkind. As bigstemarra says he has had a horrible time with us in terms of injuries and personal issues not to mention poor form of the team in general and being unsettled by a proposed move. He is a good player no doubt. His hold up play does imho opinion match any other striker we have and no doubt if Andy gets fit and his head right and the team plays with any degree of confidence he will score a lot of goals. He does need a pacey partner though I feel.
and he's only played part of one friendly. I think he can play 4-5-1 - best I've seen him was at Plymouth last year when we were set up pretty much as we were yesterday.
I don't think he was too bad when he came on yesterday. Had a few glimpses where he nearly got in, and he has only had one pre season game with us. Looked a lot quicker as well from when I last saw him
It's the hold up play i don't get. Alright he can't jump particularly impressively, average pace at best, doesn't seem to have a 'trick' either, but on the plus side he can take a pen, sometimes ghost into finishing positions, and has a fair bit of footballers nous...but when receiving the ball it either seems to bounce back of him, or a defender gets up his arris and snakes a leg out to knock the ball away. There is a footballer in there somewhere, but I reckon he isn't fit, and he needs a bit of coaching and help, even if he is the 'experienced' pro...in his case you're never too old to learn.
I do hope his personal situation is improving for him.
It's fair to say I've been unimpressed by him since he joined us.
As has been said above, no pace, no obviously dominant heading ability, doesn't seem to jump at times, hold up play isn't great, goal return - if you take out pens - isn't great and although he went around the keeper yesterday he couldn't finish - so questions over his finishing too.
Against that, he's been playing in a 24-carat garbage team, has been injured or playing with injury for a fair chunk of time and has had to contend with very difficult personal circumstances, which have hopefully eased a bit now.
Part of me thinks that we should just cut our loses and unload him for whatever we can get - which would save on wages too - and a fresh start might also be the best thing for him too. But I have this nagging feeling in the back of my head that if he does stay and he stays fit and happy (or happier) he could well be the man we're looking for to spearhead our attack and get the goals to mount a serious promotion challenge.
Let's face it, none of the others are any better and who else any better are we going to get in for the dought that Barnsley are reported to be offering?
[cite]Posted By: seth plum[/cite]but when receiving the ball it either seems to bounce back of him, or a defender gets up his arris and snakes a leg out to knock the ball away.
That does seem to happen a lot. In comparison, Burton usually controls the ball well and rarely gives it away. I think he can do it, probably a mixture of a lack of fitness and confidence, and I think he can get a few goals in this league. Though like I said there's nothing about him that really stands out, our best finisher when it comes to strikers, but that's not exactly impressive.
For me too, Burton has to be first choice up front. Always puts in a shift, holds the ball up well and looks to bring other players into the action. He'll do ok in this league, and he too can take a penalty. Well done yersterday Deon.
gray is the best of a bad bunch ... he'll get as many goals as burton, mclown and dickson put together if he plays and in fact even if he doesn't he wont be too far behind that punchless lot
[cite]Posted By: oohaahmortimer[/cite]gray is the best of a bad bunch ... he'll get as many goals as burton, mclown and dickson put together if he plays and in fact even if he doesn't he wont be too far behind that punchless lot
If he's the best we've got, then I'm a a bit concerned about him missing an open goal yesterday. Did all the hard work then got absolutely no power on the shot at all. Lisbie-esque. (Charlton Lisbie, not Colchester Lisbie, that is...)
[cite]Posted By: oohaahmortimer[/cite]gray is the best of a bad bunch ... he'll get as many goals as burton, mclown and dickson put together if he plays and in fact even if he doesn't he wont be too far behind that punchless lot
If he's the best we've got, then I'm a a bit concerned about him missing an open goal yesterday. Did all the hard work then got absolutely no power on the shot at all. Lisbie-esque. (Charlton Lisbie, not Colchester Lisbie, that is...)
He was off balance, a lot of players would of gone down. He was impressive when he came on yesterday as was McLeod
[cite]Posted By: oohaahmortimer[/cite]gray is the best of a bad bunch ... he'll get as many goals as burton, mclown and dickson put together if he plays and in fact even if he doesn't he wont be too far behind that punchless lot
If he's the best we've got, then I'm a a bit concerned about him missing an open goal yesterday. Did all the hard work then got absolutely no power on the shot at all. Lisbie-esque. (Charlton Lisbie, not Colchester Lisbie, that is...)
He was off balance, a lot of players would of gone down. He was impressive when he came on yesterday as was McLeod
Agreed not one of our other 'strikers' would have had the sense to go round the keeper, they would have blasted it straight at him. Thought he was really unluky with it also thought he looked alrght when he came on, looked alot more interested and sharper than at any time last season, and he's not fit yet, really think he could be key if we keep him
[cite]Posted By: oohaahmortimer[/cite]gray is the best of a bad bunch ... he'll get as many goals as burton, mclown and dickson put together if he plays and in fact even if he doesn't he wont be too far behind that punchless lot
If he's the best we've got, then I'm a a bit concerned about him missing an open goal yesterday. Did all the hard work then got absolutely no power on the shot at all. Lisbie-esque. (Charlton Lisbie, not Colchester Lisbie, that is...)
Clueless, absolutely clueless.
He did well to get round the keeper in the first place, unfortunately the keeper did just enough to get Gray off balance forcing him to shoot with the unnatural foot, meaning he couldnt get a clen shot away on goal. So not exactly your run of the mill open goal, was it.
I felt part of the difficulty on Saturday was that the ball did not "stick" with Gray and invariably got picked up by a Wycombe player. Neon Deon nearly always found a Charlton player.
Regarding Gray's missed chance he did all the right things but get power on the shot (because he was off balance) but the Wycombe defender deserves some credit for tracking back to clear it. Our back 4 last season would have all been looking at each other as it trickled over the line.
Remeber he has only had one pre-season friendly as well this year.
I thought he looked tubby but he'll come good. Despite what people think, him and Burton could work. Burton hold the ball and l;aying it off to Gray run onto behind defenders.
He looks good when he actually has the ball under control and facing goal - he gets his shots off and is a decent finisher.
Comments
*god I can' believe I've actually typed that !
I know what you mean, I find nothing about his game stands out above other players. Does make me wonder how he was supposed to be one of the best players in the division. Apart from being a good penalty taker and probably our best finisher (but that's not great when you look at the strikers we've got), there's not much he does or is capable of that is significantly better than other strikers we have.
Maybe his bolt has been shot, maybe it has not but I do think there will be more to come from him this season, with us or Barnsley or whoever (Preston were suppossed to be in for him).
[quote][cite]Posted By: The Red Tadpole[/cite]i dont rate him either,never have and never will...burton puts more effort in.[/quote]
So if he comes good and scores a hat full of goals and gets us promoted you still won't rate him or is it just you don't believe he ever will come good, therefore that option has been discarded?
So many people on here said the same thing about Iwelumo and then he went to Wolves, was their top scorer during the first half of the season and then people moaned that we had not pocketed enough money for him.
Please prove me wrong Andy, by turning into the goal machine you know is lurking below the surface.
Also, he really should be better than Burton at holding up the ball with his height and strength - let's hope he gets his act together.
and he's only played part of one friendly. I think he can play 4-5-1 - best I've seen him was at Plymouth last year when we were set up pretty much as we were yesterday.
I do hope his personal situation is improving for him.
We are clearly looking for a solution to our striker problems, but we could already have it. Proven goalscorers don't grow on trees!*
*apart from very expensive ones.
As has been said above, no pace, no obviously dominant heading ability, doesn't seem to jump at times, hold up play isn't great, goal return - if you take out pens - isn't great and although he went around the keeper yesterday he couldn't finish - so questions over his finishing too.
Against that, he's been playing in a 24-carat garbage team, has been injured or playing with injury for a fair chunk of time and has had to contend with very difficult personal circumstances, which have hopefully eased a bit now.
Part of me thinks that we should just cut our loses and unload him for whatever we can get - which would save on wages too - and a fresh start might also be the best thing for him too. But I have this nagging feeling in the back of my head that if he does stay and he stays fit and happy (or happier) he could well be the man we're looking for to spearhead our attack and get the goals to mount a serious promotion challenge.
Let's face it, none of the others are any better and who else any better are we going to get in for the dought that Barnsley are reported to be offering?
That does seem to happen a lot. In comparison, Burton usually controls the ball well and rarely gives it away. I think he can do it, probably a mixture of a lack of fitness and confidence, and I think he can get a few goals in this league. Though like I said there's nothing about him that really stands out, our best finisher when it comes to strikers, but that's not exactly impressive.
Id say Mcleod and Burton are both better players than him.
If he's the best we've got, then I'm a a bit concerned about him missing an open goal yesterday. Did all the hard work then got absolutely no power on the shot at all. Lisbie-esque. (Charlton Lisbie, not Colchester Lisbie, that is...)
He was off balance, a lot of players would of gone down. He was impressive when he came on yesterday as was McLeod
Agreed not one of our other 'strikers' would have had the sense to go round the keeper, they would have blasted it straight at him. Thought he was really unluky with it also thought he looked alrght when he came on, looked alot more interested and sharper than at any time last season, and he's not fit yet, really think he could be key if we keep him
Clueless, absolutely clueless.
He did well to get round the keeper in the first place, unfortunately the keeper did just enough to get Gray off balance forcing him to shoot with the unnatural foot, meaning he couldnt get a clen shot away on goal. So not exactly your run of the mill open goal, was it.
Regarding Gray's missed chance he did all the right things but get power on the shot (because he was off balance) but the Wycombe defender deserves some credit for tracking back to clear it. Our back 4 last season would have all been looking at each other as it trickled over the line.
The Wycombe guy took the initiative.
I thought he looked tubby but he'll come good. Despite what people think, him and Burton could work. Burton hold the ball and l;aying it off to Gray run onto behind defenders.
He looks good when he actually has the ball under control and facing goal - he gets his shots off and is a decent finisher.