i'm saying that the biggest loss to us as a club and the reason we are where we are now is was curbs left not parker mr oggy
so basically the mess we are in is all curbs fault FACT
this all doesn't make any sense,the previous season we finished with 4 points from the last 10 games. well that's clearly relegation form in anyone's book and yet he proved everyone totally wrong and here we are all talking how sir alan almost took us to the brink of european glory the following one all on a shoestring.
it would have been very foolish not to give him another season.
[quote][cite]Posted By: Oggy Red[/cite]The Parker thing wasn't just about losing our star player, the player that made our team tick. That could have happened anytime through injury.
Parker caused huge disruption within the squad as he petulantly demanded his move regardless of the consequences to the club and team ambition.
[b]It was a psychological thing inside the club as a whole, and particularly affected Curbs.[/b] The glass ceiling that had always been there had just been opened and we were halfway through it - and then suddenly the belief within the club shrivelled away. The glass ceiling was back in place.
Curbs got it together that summer to have one more stab at it, and we made an unbelievable start hanging on to Chelsea's shirt tails in 2nd place right the way through until the end of October, until the tactics were sussed and the wheels fell off.
After that, it was Curbs last stand as he threw creative football out of the window in an attempt to stop the freefall down the table. Murphy & Smertin couldn't get out fast enough and Rommedahl withdrew back into his shell.
There's no doubt in my mind, that losing Parker from the team was only part of the blow. The damage done, in terms of ambition and belief within the psyche of the playing and management staff, was the turning point.
And apart from that brief and unsustainable start to the following season, it's been an unstoppable downward slide ever since.[/quote]
[quote][cite]Posted By: Oggy Red[/cite]The Parker thing wasn't just about losing our star player, the player that made our team tick. That could have happened anytime through injury.
Parker caused huge disruption within the squad as he petulantly demanded his move regardless of the consequences to the club and team ambition.
[b]It was a psychological thing inside the club as a whole, and particularly affected Curbs.[/b] The glass ceiling that had always been there had just been opened and we were halfway through it - and then suddenly the belief within the club shrivelled away. The glass ceiling was back in place.
Curbs got it together that summer to have one more stab at it, and we made an unbelievable start hanging on to Chelsea's shirt tails in 2nd place right the way through until the end of October, until the tactics were sussed and the wheels fell off.
After that, it was Curbs last stand as he threw creative football out of the window in an attempt to stop the freefall down the table. Murphy & Smertin couldn't get out fast enough and Rommedahl withdrew back into his shell.
There's no doubt in my mind, that losing Parker from the team was only part of the blow. The damage done, in terms of ambition and belief within the psyche of the playing and management staff, was the turning point.
And apart from that brief and unsustainable start to the following season, it's been an unstoppable downward slide ever since.[/quote]
An excellent summary Oggy. The broader point (that myself and SoundASA were trying to make) being that until you can actually make that transformation from being a selling club, to a club that doesn't need to sell/ buying club, you will never become an established top six club.Had Parker not spat the dummy, we may just have managed it.
Ronaldo goes to Real Madrid from Manure for zillions (along with Kaka etc)
Tevez goes from being owned by a Colombian drug cartel and Manure to Man City
Terry may be going from Chelski to Man City and so on
and we are still going on about Parker.
All clubs now trade in players. The trick is to buy and sell well and to get a performance out of them when under contract. With some notable exceptions (Darren Bent and perhaps Mark Hudson) we have failed at both in recent times but it is something our Board and Management team will need to turnaround to ensure we avoid administration. Shelvey will be sold and those that follow him too.
This has turned into yet another 'where it all started to go wrong' thread. Oggy, I totally agree with you. At the beginning of that season, post-Parker, with Murphy, Smertin and not to forget Kish running the midfield, Charlton played some of their best football in years. It was after Curbs decided to go back to basics, not allowing the midfield the attacking freedom they had before, hence the falling out with Murphy, that the downfall really began IMHO.
But, does it matter. That was a minor crisis at that time compared to what the club is now facing. Who knows if we'll ever see the likes of Parker, Murphy, Smertin and even Kishishev at the club again.
There have been some spectacular rises from the lower reaches to the Premier League in recent seasons: Wigan, Hull, Stoke, but there have been as many falls from grace: Leeds, Southampton, Norwich, Charlton. Anything can happen and with the real money coming into the game only benefitting a few clubs, we are likely to see more of the same.
At the moment we are still awaiting the club's response to the MOS article. anything written prior to that regarding our future is purely speculation, and with hundreds of postings on the subject on various threads, there's a lot to speculate about.
In reply to a few people, I don't miss the point about Parker's departure sending out the wrong signals. My comment is really more about football as a whole. More or less any of the other top two division clubs can have its aspirations curtailed by any of the big four scooping up their best players. We are not alone in this.
We may have managed 4th place if Parker had stayed; we might not have done. Usually, teams punching above their weight gradually slip as the season progresses, so I suspect we would have failed, but we will never know, of course.
Parker would still have moved on at the end of that season. Anything else is unrealistic. Yes, this period was probably the pinnacle of our success, but there was only one direction it was going to go, IMHO. Sadly, the decline everyone must have realistically suspected is way beyond what anyone could have imagined. Therefore, you could argue that it is the mistakes since Parker went that have been the real problem.
If Parker had stayed until the end of the season, and we'd still missed out on European competion - I doubt that would have impacted in the same way.
Also if he'd picked up injury, it might have contributed to adverse results but this is something every manager has to deal with in the normal way.
It was the disruption within the club as a result of Parker's petulance, which IMO acted as a catalyst for decline, it was a psychological thing rather than just on the pitch.
If we had qualified for European competition, it would also have raised the belief levels within the minds at everyone at the club, and psycholigically pushed us on towards that so sought after at the time, next level.
If he had stayed and we had qualified for Euro Football it may have been enough to convince Parker to stay past the summer, at least until the next january.
Being in Europe might have attracted better players and we could have pushed on. On the other hand Ipswich went down the year they made europe if i remember.
Comments
Just assessing Parker's departure and the impact of that on the club as a whole.
so basically the mess we are in is all curbs fault FACT
Reluctantly I have to agree, you're right ......
it would have been very foolish not to give him another season.
I'm right, aren't I Oohaah and TK .... ?
;o)
phew, just another 400 to go now!
That could have happened anytime through injury.
Parker caused huge disruption within the squad as he petulantly demanded his move regardless of the consequences to the club and team ambition.
[b]It was a psychological thing inside the club as a whole, and particularly affected Curbs.[/b]
The glass ceiling that had always been there had just been opened and we were halfway through it - and then suddenly the belief within the club shrivelled away. The glass ceiling was back in place.
Curbs got it together that summer to have one more stab at it, and we made an unbelievable start hanging on to Chelsea's shirt tails in 2nd place right the way through until the end of October, until the tactics were sussed and the wheels fell off.
After that, it was Curbs last stand as he threw creative football out of the window in an attempt to stop the freefall down the table. Murphy & Smertin couldn't get out fast enough and Rommedahl withdrew back into his shell.
There's no doubt in my mind, that losing Parker from the team was only part of the blow.
The damage done, in terms of ambition and belief within the psyche of the playing and management staff, was the turning point.
And apart from that brief and unsustainable start to the following season, it's been an unstoppable downward slide ever since.[/quote]
[quote][cite]Posted By: Oggy Red[/cite]The Parker thing wasn't just about losing our star player, the player that made our team tick.
That could have happened anytime through injury.
Parker caused huge disruption within the squad as he petulantly demanded his move regardless of the consequences to the club and team ambition.
[b]It was a psychological thing inside the club as a whole, and particularly affected Curbs.[/b]
The glass ceiling that had always been there had just been opened and we were halfway through it - and then suddenly the belief within the club shrivelled away. The glass ceiling was back in place.
Curbs got it together that summer to have one more stab at it, and we made an unbelievable start hanging on to Chelsea's shirt tails in 2nd place right the way through until the end of October, until the tactics were sussed and the wheels fell off.
After that, it was Curbs last stand as he threw creative football out of the window in an attempt to stop the freefall down the table. Murphy & Smertin couldn't get out fast enough and Rommedahl withdrew back into his shell.
There's no doubt in my mind, that losing Parker from the team was only part of the blow.
The damage done, in terms of ambition and belief within the psyche of the playing and management staff, was the turning point.
And apart from that brief and unsustainable start to the following season, it's been an unstoppable downward slide ever since.[/quote]
An excellent summary Oggy. The broader point (that myself and SoundASA were trying to make) being that until you can actually make that transformation from being a selling club, to a club that doesn't need to sell/ buying club, you will never become an established top six club.Had Parker not spat the dummy, we may just have managed it.
Tevez goes from being owned by a Colombian drug cartel and Manure to Man City
Terry may be going from Chelski to Man City and so on
and we are still going on about Parker.
All clubs now trade in players. The trick is to buy and sell well and to get a performance out of them when under contract. With some notable exceptions (Darren Bent and perhaps Mark Hudson) we have failed at both in recent times but it is something our Board and Management team will need to turnaround to ensure we avoid administration. Shelvey will be sold and those that follow him too.
But, does it matter. That was a minor crisis at that time compared to what the club is now facing. Who knows if we'll ever see the likes of Parker, Murphy, Smertin and even Kishishev at the club again.
There have been some spectacular rises from the lower reaches to the Premier League in recent seasons: Wigan, Hull, Stoke, but there have been as many falls from grace: Leeds, Southampton, Norwich, Charlton. Anything can happen and with the real money coming into the game only benefitting a few clubs, we are likely to see more of the same.
At the moment we are still awaiting the club's response to the MOS article. anything written prior to that regarding our future is purely speculation, and with hundreds of postings on the subject on various threads, there's a lot to speculate about.
We may have managed 4th place if Parker had stayed; we might not have done. Usually, teams punching above their weight gradually slip as the season progresses, so I suspect we would have failed, but we will never know, of course.
Parker would still have moved on at the end of that season. Anything else is unrealistic. Yes, this period was probably the pinnacle of our success, but there was only one direction it was going to go, IMHO. Sadly, the decline everyone must have realistically suspected is way beyond what anyone could have imagined. Therefore, you could argue that it is the mistakes since Parker went that have been the real problem.
Also if he'd picked up injury, it might have contributed to adverse results but this is something every manager has to deal with in the normal way.
It was the disruption within the club as a result of Parker's petulance, which IMO acted as a catalyst for decline, it was a psychological thing rather than just on the pitch.
If we had qualified for European competition, it would also have raised the belief levels within the minds at everyone at the club, and psycholigically pushed us on towards that so sought after at the time, next level.
It's impossible to stand still in football.
Being in Europe might have attracted better players and we could have pushed on. On the other hand Ipswich went down the year they made europe if i remember.