[cite]Posted By: Nug[/cite]Everyone said Dowie pi$$ed away £12M, but what did we expect to get for that, you barely get 1 decent player and he had to add 4 or 5. It was a gamble that we lost.
Ha ha £12 million in 2006/2007 season could have boughtTHREEabove average players orTWOGood players. In fact for just 4 Million more you'd get Darren Bent!
Exactly my point £16M for one decent premiership player! What did we expect to get then for £12M and a squad that needed serious investment. Not saying he didn't fail miserably in the transfer market, but players at that price are more of a gamble i.e they may perform or they may not, and they did not!
[cite]Posted By: ThreadKiller[/cite]at least if you spent that much in the championship, you wouldn't have too bad a side........oh!
Very true, imho that was the bigger mistake, we were going to find it tough in the Premier league as the millions needed to compete escalated but we should have been comfortable and pushing for a return in the Championship, bit like Birmingham, WBA and maybe Wolves to a lesser extent have done and continue to do. Personally I have a lot of hatred for Pardew, but I'm trying to work on my anger
[cite]Posted By: ThreadKiller[/cite]at least if you spent that much in the championship, you wouldn't have too bad a side........oh!
Very true, imho that was the bigger mistake, we were going to find it tough in the Premier league as the millions needed to compete escalated but we should have been comfortable and pushing for a return in the Championship, bit like Birmingham, WBA and maybe Wolves to a lesser extent have done and continue to do. Personally I have a lot of hatred for Pardew, but I'm trying to work on my anger
we can blame Pardew all we like BUT it was other's that sanctioned ridiculous contracts like the one for Christiansen. I bet the new consortium were shocked to discover we have a player on our books whom we are contracted to pay at least 6k pw for two seasons (624k) whom we cannot play otherwise we have to pay a huge fee. How many others have similar contracts. Ok Pards wanted to sign him but I'm amazed that people whom I thought were sensible, level headed businessmen agreed to that deal.
[cite]Posted By: Imissthepeanutman[/cite]Richard Murray and Martin Simons will remain in my heart as fans of this club.
Seperate to the financial commitments they have worked tirelessly for the club.
The fact that the world of football finance is pure madness means Murray has tried to achieve the most difficult juggling trick and along that path has made errors of judgement which have cost the club dear in recent times. But my view is all those decisions were taken at the time in the best faith for the future of Charlton. These errors will probably cost him not only his entire investment in the club but also his status as a Charlton legend. That I think is very sad.
No wonder I was born under the sign of Libra! Brilliant debate, and I haven't been able to decide which side of the fence to sit, but peanutman sums up my feelings exactly.
All of the posts over the last couple of days is exactly why this site is No. 1 when it comes to Charlton forums and why others want to knock it because of it's quality.
[cite]Posted By: ThreadKiller[/cite]at least if you spent that much in the championship, you wouldn't have too bad a side........oh!
Very true, imho that was the bigger mistake, we were going to find it tough in the Premier league as the millions needed to compete escalated but we should have been comfortable and pushing for a return in the Championship, bit like Birmingham, WBA and maybe Wolves to a lesser extent have done and continue to do. Personally I have a lot of hatred for Pardew, but I'm trying to work on my anger
we can blame Pardew all we like BUT it was other's that sanctioned ridiculous contracts like the one for Christiansen. I bet the new consortium were shocked to discover we have a player on our books whom we are contracted to pay at least 6k pw for two seasons (624k) whom we cannot play otherwise we have to pay a huge fee. How many others have similar contracts. Ok Pards wanted to sign him but I'm amazed that people whom I thought were sensible, level headed businessmen agreed to that deal.
Also why hate Pards? What about DOWIE he wasted a lot of money that could have gone to CURBS or towards keeping Curbs another year.
[cite]Posted By: oohaahmortimer[/cite]curbs last season not a slide imo
here are some FACTS
47 premiership points (one more than the previous season)
13 points above relegation
11 points from last 10 games
1/4 finals of the FA Cup
That's what the statistics say, Ooh Aah, thanks to that unbelievable start where we had about half of those points before the end of October.
But from the end of October onwards, it made pretty grim reading - Curbs was out of ideas and out of energy, and his head turned by the prospect of the England job. We gathered less than 25 points in the remaining 6 months of the season - relegation form.
And in much of that time, many of the performances were dire, as Curbs adopted a tactical plan of sterile non-football to get a result at any cost.
It was great getting to the FA Cup 6th round again - but we fell the first time we were matched against another Prem club, a very ordinary Middlesboro' - after beating the might of Sheff Wed, Leyton Orient and Brentford.
Averaging around a point a game in the final 10 games must be recorded as an almighty achievement, compared to our usual final run in record, I suppose - but nevertheless the signs had been there for 6 months that Curb's team wasn't now good enough for survival the next season.
Curbs knew that too, no doubt.
The bald statistics didn't reveal the true, sometimes desperate, state of affairs within the team and it's performances for the greater part of that season.
Credit to Curbs for giving us the dream - but after all his achievements it was time for change.
And Curbs knew that himself, beyond doubt.
ok, let's deal in facts again. splitting curbs' last season in half, 25 points from the first 19 games and 22 from the last 19. neither of which was relegation form ffs.
The initial damage was done previously by Curbs who seemed to not to be able to handle name players and let the squad go to ruin. The REAL heavy damage was when the board gave the following seasons money to that berk Dowie who spunked it on utter gash like Diawara (who RM said he had never heard of and hadn't seen play, which is fantastic considering he signs the cheques....), Traore and Faye et al.
Simon Walton £1 Million anyone?
So £8 Million was pissed up the wall and left us in the mire.
Then Pardew wastes our final roll of the dice on superstars like Varney, Gray, McLeod et al.
[cite]Posted By: ThreadKiller[/cite]ok, let's deal in facts again. splitting curbs' last season in half, 25 points from the first 19 games and 22 from the last 19. neither of which was relegation form ffs.
I wasn't splitting the season in half, though ....... just from October. In fact by 22/10/2005, we had 19 points in the bag from just 9 matches. That's what saved us from relegation that season.
Rather than 28 points from the remaining 29 matches.
[cite]Posted By: Oggy Red[/cite]I wasn't splitting the season in half, though ....... just from October. In fact by 22/10/2005, we had 19 points in the bag from just 9 matches. That's what saved us from relegation that season.
Rather than 28 points from the remaining 29 matches.
ok, by that reasoning and you trying to show our worst possible run in, we still averaged 0.9655 per match in those 29 games that you choose. which if that was our form over the whole season,well it still would have had us a couple of points above relegation.
what next, our season will be viewed over a week in november?
[cite]Posted By: Oggy Red[/cite]I wasn't splitting the season in half, though ....... just from October. In fact by 22/10/2005, we had 19 points in the bag from just 9 matches. That's what saved us from relegation that season.
Rather than 28 points from the remaining 29 matches.
ok, by that reasoning and you trying to show our worst possible run in that we still averaged 0.9655 per match in those 29 games. which if that was our form over the whole season,well it still would have had us a couple of points above relegation.
Or if just one match that we actually won had only resulted in a draw, especially against a relegation struggling team, then the average points per match as you illustrate could have been very similar to a relegated team?
For example in 2006-07, Charlton finished 4 points behind safety; we were winning 2-1 against Fulham and conceded that last kick equaliser. which gave Fulham 1 point they shouldn't have had, and cost us 2 points.
Against Man City and Watford away, we should have won those matches without horrendous missed chances.
Sheff Utd at home also.
Extra points that we would have then collected, would have reduced relegation rivals' points total too.
Then Liverpool away, winning 2-1 and then conceding an unnecessary injury time penalty.
Many other matches too, it's a fine line between success and failure - and that might easily have made the difference between keeping our place in the Prem instead of relegation.
And a similar analysis could have applied to Curbs' last season, 2005-06.
[cite]Posted By: ThreadKiller[/cite]well let's just deal in facts then.2005-06 47 points from 38 games and 13 points clear.
lol ..... and round we go full circle.
I was just trying to point out that statistics can't be relied on to always tell the full story.
In the case of Curb's last season, they clearly didn't.
I'm taking nothing away from the man and the job he did that year - he used nous to get us enough points out of nothing when as everybody could see, his team was a spent force.
But the point of debate is, that when he left the team was a spent force.
And there's little doubt he knew it also.
Maybe he could have done better than Dowie, with that £11million war chest.
Although it's not easy to get the right players in at the right price - even in the Prem, clubs like Charlton had to feed off the scraps that other clubs didn't want.
So it was always a gamble, whoever the manager - Scott Parker had been sold for £10 million plus, and Curbs signed Rommedahl, Murphy, El Kak, Hughes and Jeffers with the money.
[quote][cite]Posted By: oohaahmortimer[/cite]we should have let curbs see his contract out imo[/quote]
Zzzzzz.....
In the footballing world that just isn't going to work.
Curbs wanted to leave, he was offered a new contract, decided not to sign it and left by mutual consent all round at the end of that season. A manager who's heart is no longer in the job isn't worth retaining. Plus it'd be difficult to bring new players to the club and plan for the next ttwo/three/four seasons if those players know that the manager is about to leave.
The worst thing we could have done is to have lingered over a decision and then be forced to make one in mid-season. The last few occasions that has happened - Dowie, Reed and Pardew - it has worked out disastrously.
Crikey, BFR ....that would have been a sad scenario.
The next season if Curbshad stayed, Charlton bottom of the league in November, and after 15 years Curbs either walking out or worse, pushed. And he would have spent the £11million war chest.
Not to worry, Uncle Les could have been appointed manager.
curbs wanted to see the final year out of his contract and be involved in finding his successor .... imo his experience may have helped in this process rather better than the route we did take.....
I wonder if phil parkinson is seeing out the last year of his contract in the footballing world
[cite]Posted By: oohaahmortimer[/cite]curbs wanted to see the final year out of his contract and be involved in finding his successor .... imo his experience may have helped in this process rather better than the route we did take.....
I wonder if phil parkinson is seeing out the last year of his contract in the footballing world
I understand Parky is being retained in the last year of his contract and to be involved in finding his successor.......God help us.
Yep, one of his many strengths is that he (Curbs) knows his own mind, ok he could be a bit inflexible with that (witness the players he had a falling out with and occasionally bad tactics away from home) but I think he very well knew that his time was up and chose to walk to a standing ovation rather than leave quietly by a side exit a few months later with thingslooking a lot less rosey. I reckon if he'd told Murray and Varney that he wanted to stay on and seeing the last year of his contract out then they would have let him stay. That would make for an interesting question if he ever speaks at a SC meeting.
[cite]Posted By: BlackForestReds[/cite]Yep, one of his many strengths is that he (Curbs) knows his own mind, ok he could be a bit inflexible with that (witness the players he had a falling out with and occasionally bad tactics away from home) but I think he very well knew that his time was up and chose to walk to a standing ovation rather than leave quietly by a side exit a few months later with thingslooking a lot less rosey. I reckon if he'd told Murray and Varney that he wanted to stay on and seeing the last year of his contract out then they would have let him stay. That would make for an interesting question if he ever speaks at a SC meeting.
His book clearly states that he WAS prepared to stay but RM didn't want that.
Comments
Exactly my point £16M for one decent premiership player! What did we expect to get then for £12M and a squad that needed serious investment. Not saying he didn't fail miserably in the transfer market, but players at that price are more of a gamble i.e they may perform or they may not, and they did not!
Very true, imho that was the bigger mistake, we were going to find it tough in the Premier league as the millions needed to compete escalated but we should have been comfortable and pushing for a return in the Championship, bit like Birmingham, WBA and maybe Wolves to a lesser extent have done and continue to do. Personally I have a lot of hatred for Pardew, but I'm trying to work on my anger
we can blame Pardew all we like BUT it was other's that sanctioned ridiculous contracts like the one for Christiansen. I bet the new consortium were shocked to discover we have a player on our books whom we are contracted to pay at least 6k pw for two seasons (624k) whom we cannot play otherwise we have to pay a huge fee. How many others have similar contracts. Ok Pards wanted to sign him but I'm amazed that people whom I thought were sensible, level headed businessmen agreed to that deal.
No wonder I was born under the sign of Libra! Brilliant debate, and I haven't been able to decide which side of the fence to sit, but peanutman sums up my feelings exactly.
All of the posts over the last couple of days is exactly why this site is No. 1 when it comes to Charlton forums and why others want to knock it because of it's quality.
Also why hate Pards? What about DOWIE he wasted a lot of money that could have gone to CURBS or towards keeping Curbs another year.
That's what the statistics say, Ooh Aah, thanks to that unbelievable start where we had about half of those points before the end of October.
But from the end of October onwards, it made pretty grim reading - Curbs was out of ideas and out of energy, and his head turned by the prospect of the England job. We gathered less than 25 points in the remaining 6 months of the season - relegation form.
And in much of that time, many of the performances were dire, as Curbs adopted a tactical plan of sterile non-football to get a result at any cost.
It was great getting to the FA Cup 6th round again - but we fell the first time we were matched against another Prem club, a very ordinary Middlesboro' - after beating the might of Sheff Wed, Leyton Orient and Brentford.
Averaging around a point a game in the final 10 games must be recorded as an almighty achievement, compared to our usual final run in record, I suppose - but nevertheless the signs had been there for 6 months that Curb's team wasn't now good enough for survival the next season.
Curbs knew that too, no doubt.
The bald statistics didn't reveal the true, sometimes desperate, state of affairs within the team and it's performances for the greater part of that season.
Credit to Curbs for giving us the dream - but after all his achievements it was time for change.
And Curbs knew that himself, beyond doubt.
Thought Boro lost to West Ham - that's why West Ham played Liverpool in the Final ....?
;o)
The rot had set in by Christmas of Curbs' last season.
Simon Walton £1 Million anyone?
So £8 Million was pissed up the wall and left us in the mire.
Then Pardew wastes our final roll of the dice on superstars like Varney, Gray, McLeod et al.
I wasn't splitting the season in half, though ....... just from October. In fact by 22/10/2005, we had 19 points in the bag from just 9 matches. That's what saved us from relegation that season.
Rather than 28 points from the remaining 29 matches.
ok, by that reasoning and you trying to show our worst possible run in, we still averaged 0.9655 per match in those 29 games that you choose. which if that was our form over the whole season,well it still would have had us a couple of points above relegation.
what next, our season will be viewed over a week in november?
Or if just one match that we actually won had only resulted in a draw, especially against a relegation struggling team, then the average points per match as you illustrate could have been very similar to a relegated team?
For example in 2006-07, Charlton finished 4 points behind safety; we were winning 2-1 against Fulham and conceded that last kick equaliser. which gave Fulham 1 point they shouldn't have had, and cost us 2 points.
Against Man City and Watford away, we should have won those matches without horrendous missed chances.
Sheff Utd at home also.
Extra points that we would have then collected, would have reduced relegation rivals' points total too.
Then Liverpool away, winning 2-1 and then conceding an unnecessary injury time penalty.
Many other matches too, it's a fine line between success and failure - and that might easily have made the difference between keeping our place in the Prem instead of relegation.
And a similar analysis could have applied to Curbs' last season, 2005-06.
lol ..... and round we go full circle.
I was just trying to point out that statistics can't be relied on to always tell the full story.
In the case of Curb's last season, they clearly didn't.
I'm taking nothing away from the man and the job he did that year - he used nous to get us enough points out of nothing when as everybody could see, his team was a spent force.
But the point of debate is, that when he left the team was a spent force.
And there's little doubt he knew it also.
So did Dowie when he arrived. And Murray too.
Hence the £11million Dowie was given to spend.
it's all very well with hindsight......
Maybe he could have done better than Dowie, with that £11million war chest.
Although it's not easy to get the right players in at the right price - even in the Prem, clubs like Charlton had to feed off the scraps that other clubs didn't want.
So it was always a gamble, whoever the manager - Scott Parker had been sold for £10 million plus, and Curbs signed Rommedahl, Murphy, El Kak, Hughes and Jeffers with the money.
Sometimes a manager can only roll the dice.
Zzzzzz.....
In the footballing world that just isn't going to work.
Curbs wanted to leave, he was offered a new contract, decided not to sign it and left by mutual consent all round at the end of that season. A manager who's heart is no longer in the job isn't worth retaining. Plus it'd be difficult to bring new players to the club and plan for the next ttwo/three/four seasons if those players know that the manager is about to leave.
The worst thing we could have done is to have lingered over a decision and then be forced to make one in mid-season. The last few occasions that has happened - Dowie, Reed and Pardew - it has worked out disastrously.
The next season if Curbshad stayed, Charlton bottom of the league in November, and after 15 years Curbs either walking out or worse, pushed. And he would have spent the £11million war chest.
Not to worry, Uncle Les could have been appointed manager.
I wonder if phil parkinson is seeing out the last year of his contract in the footballing world
I understand Parky is being retained in the last year of his contract and to be involved in finding his successor.......God help us.
;o)
His book clearly states that he WAS prepared to stay but RM didn't want that.