I voted to keep. I know he hasnt done well enough but my worry is that a new broom could be just as bad and we'd be even further in trouble. Im of the mind that we see how the season starts, give him to December 1st and make a decision then.
It's taken bloody ages but recently performances have started to improve, we were on a downward spiral with Dowie, Reed then pushed the problem accelerator, went further down with Pards and the trend continued with Parky until recently. The only man since Curbs to get a upward turn of form. ......
That's not strictly true, Drawna.
For example, despite inheriting a poisoned chalice, Pards made a fair stab at getting us out of relegation trouble in the Prem.
Starting with that famous 4-0 win against Curbs' West Ham, we had a decent run of results and surfaced out of the bottom 3 by Easter.
Ok, the wheels fell off at the death - but as VFR boomed out round the Valley as Tottenham relegated us, nobody felt Pardew had let us down really. In fact, if Prem results under his stewardship had been replicated over the whole season, we'd have reasonably comfortably stayed up.
We started last season in the Champs reasonably well too, despite only 1 point out of the first 2 games - then went 8 matches unbeaten, winning most of them.
By November, after back to back wins away at Southampton and Bristol City, we were 2nd in the table (compare to this season), but maintained 5th place until after Easter.
But losing Andy Reid, the 'brains' of the side, plus disasterous man management as a result of the desperate loan signings caused the freefall after that, which culminated in relegation this season.
So Pards true decline, as far as measured by perormances/ results, appeared to start around late Feb/early March.
And he finished badly overall.
But there were 2 distinct periods, when he appeared to have it right.
Blimey, never thought I'd stick up for Pardew! ...... but need to put it into perspective.
It's taken bloody ages but recently performances have started to improve, we were on a downward spiral with Dowie, Reed then pushed the problem accelerator, went further down with Pards and the trend continued with Parky until recently. The only man since Curbs to get a upward turn of form.......
That's not strictly true, Drawna.
For example, despite inheriting a poisoned chalice, Pards made a fair stab at getting us out of relegation trouble in the Prem.
Starting with that famous 4-0 win against Curbs' West Ham, we had a decent run of results and surfaced out of the bottom 3 by Easter.
Ok, the wheels fell off at the death - but as VFR boomed out round the Valley as Tottenham relegated us, nobody felt Pardew had let us down really. In fact, if Prem results under his stewardship had been replicated over the whole season, we'd have reasonably comfortably stayed up.
We started last season in the Champs reasonably well too, despite only 1 point out of the first 2 games - then went 8 matches unbeaten, winning most of them.
By November, after back to back wins away at Southampton and Bristol City, we were 2nd in the table (compare to this season), but maintained 5th place until after Easter.
But losing Andy Reid, the 'brains' of the side, plus disasterous man management as a result of the desperate loan signings caused the freefall after that, which culminated in relegation this season.
So Pards true decline, as far as measured by perormances/ results, appeared to start around late Feb/early March.
And he finished badly overall.
But there were 2 distinct periods, when he appeared to have it right.
Blimey, never thought I'd stick up for Pardew! ...... but need to put it into perspective.
Wholeheartedly agree and it was the board enforced sale of Andy Reid that started our decline from being promotion contenders through to mid table mediocrity through to relegation. Afterwards Pardew clearly had a brain melt.
Wholeheartedly agree and it was the board enforced sale of Andy Reid that started our decline from being promotion contenders through to mid table mediocrity through to relegation. Afterwards Pardew clearly had a brain melt.
Wonder why you say it was a board enforced move when by all accounts including Richard Murrays at last weeks EGM say that it was Reids decision due to the vastly increased salary?
I believe that the rot was well and truly set in and whilst I certainly expected better results I think that just about anyone new (realistically) coming in would have been just as unlikely to save us.
If we can get at least 3 points from the last 3 games (more the better naturally) then we will be finishing the season with some (relative) momentum and can look forward positively to next season with the same management team and a core of some of the present players (many will leave of course) - imho a new broom would sweep that momentum away, increase instability and make it harder to make a strong start to next season.
[cite]Posted By: Oggy Red[/cite]...but losing Andy Reid, the 'brains' of the side, plus disasterous man management as a result of the desperate loan signings caused the freefall after that, which culminated in relegation this season.
very good post Oggy, especially the above paragraph - you could perhaps have mentioned Pards squandering of millions on Varney and McLeod as well - if one of those had been good enough we would have been nearer the other end of the table.
[cite]Posted By: c4fcdenmark[/cite]In addition we will have players leaving on contract expirees and bids that the board may find hard to resist for oour better players.
That happened last year. Bougherra, Iwelumo, McCarthy, Bent, Faye and Thomas all left, and we released Powell, Thatcher, Gibbs, Monteiro, Smith and had several loanees return to their main clubs.
[cite]Posted By: Oggy Red[/cite]...but losing Andy Reid, the 'brains' of the side, plus disasterous man management as a result of the desperate loan signings caused the freefall after that, which culminated in relegation this season.
very good post Oggy, especially the above paragraph - you could perhaps have mentioned Pards squandering of millions on Varney and McLeod as well - if one of those had been good enough we would have been nearer the other end of the table.
Cheers, Salad. I did mention specifically performances/ results in my post and replied in that context.
I thought the signings, successful or otherwise, weren't really the principle topic of Drawnablanks original post that I was replying to.
But of course, that's another entire chapter to put under the microscope ..... if we haven't done that enough already! lol
Interesting comment from Mandaric on cost of relegation:
Mandaric also admitted that relegation to League One cost in the region of £10 million, but is still adamant that manager Nigel Pearson will have the funds required for the Foxes to mount a challenge in the Championship next season.
[cite]Posted By: blackheathaddick[/cite]I hope thats a joke above
I voted to keep. I know he hasnt done well enough but my worry is that a new broom could be just as bad and we'd be even further in trouble. Im of the mind that we see how the season starts, give him to December 1st and make a decision then.
I voted for complete change, on the basis of results. That may sound a bit bleedin' obvious, but they are dire. The fact is that all teams improve somewhat, especially when they are a lost cause. Some teams improve on their own without any obvious change in personnel or key management input. Like the park teams we've all played for. The bald fact is that Parky has taken us even lower than Pardew did, and kept us there. Not even a hint of a serious chance of avoiding the drop, whereas, in the same period, all the others have improved somewhat. There is too much short-termism as Nigel W has said, but to keep him is to go too far the other way. The only caveat is that I haven't seem them live since the New Year, but the results, particularly in crucial games post Palace, speak for themselves. As do the performance of most of the Parky signings, Darren Ward being the apparent - and expensive - exception.
But Dave Rudd also makes a very telling point about the management team behind the scenes. ideally we want another Murray-Varney-Manager combo that works in harness and harmony.
[cite]Posted By: c4fcdenmark[/cite]Wholeheartedly agree and it was the board enforced sale of Andy Reid that started our decline from being promotion contenders through to mid table mediocrity through to relegation. Afterwards Pardew clearly had a brain melt.
There is a huge assumption in that statement that the Board enforced the sale of Reid. As I understand it, Pardew wanted to bring more players in and the Board said fine but there's no money (and bear in mind Pardew had spent alot already). I believe that Thomas or Reid were lined up by Pardew who clearly felt he needed another striker to go with the four he had already signed. Thomas' deal to Pompey didn't go through and so Reid was sold. Despite what people think, I don't believe that Reid had to be sold at that time, I believe the club could have waited until the end of the season.
As for keeping Parky well I voted for a complete change but I entirely understand those who find difficulty making up their minds.
In my view Parky was appointed because the job had already been lined up for him. Thus he was the default candidate. I doubt whether the board seriously considered anybody else because it was largely set in stone. They didn't give him the job permenantly straight away to give themselves the appearance of some wriggle room which they didn't intend to use. They expected him to win one or two games, bearing in mind the teams we were up against. When no game was won, they had no realistic plan B so they came up with the "well performances have improved even though results haven't". Personally I think its a case of we all can't agree on anybody else, Parky was the "chosen" successor, moneys tight, he's in situ so lets affirm him as the permanent manager because any other course is also full of risk. I think it was a fudge and now they've still got the same dilemma!
I voted don`t know but still can`t see why the board are dithering. Back him or sack him thats the only options available to them so get on with it and let us either get behind Parky or the new man. I am prepared to do either.
I voted for Parkinson and his back room staff to stay. Although results haven't gone well since he's taken over, performances are mildly better and he's going in the right direction of bringing through the youth and trying to play decent football. I'd give him a few months of the new season to see how he goes.
Missed the game tonight as I didn't get back from the cricket in Canterbury in time. But how on earth can we keep a manager who doesn't know how to win?
I think all the 'improvement' we've talked about is so much hot air. What improvement ? Look at the table tonight and Parkinson hasn't in any tangible way revived our fortunes by one iota. We're not going down on goal difference or by one or two points. We're a yawning chasm of 12 pts off safety with two games to go!
So if the results are still dire, what about the much vaunted 'improvement' in performances? Well, ZZ and Racon have returned from injury and Shelvey is beginning to realise all that abundant promise. Frankly, that would have led to an improvement even if we'd made the training ground cat manager.
Great post by Bing , BTW, on the dilemma the board have created for themselves. And they really are now impaled upon the horns of it...
Get rid of all of them, and maybe some of the stench of the worst run of form in club history will go with them.
They are clearly not up to the job in The Championship, and there is no evidence to show they will do any better in League 1.
If last minute give-aways are your bag, then keep 'em.
Otherwise, a very large broom is needed and get some professionalism back into the club on the First Team coaching staff.
I had hoped that Kinsella would be a future Charlton manager, but no longer, and that saddens me.
Having watched the latest capitulation tonight I've come to the conclusion, regretably, that we should just clear them all off. This just isn't going to get any better with the current lot. They have tried their best but are clearly devoid of the ideas, inspiration or whatever to be able to convince our players that they can actually win a fucking game.
[cite]Posted By: Off_it[/cite]They have tried their best but are clearly devoid of the ideas, inspiration or whatever to be able to convince our players that they can actually win a fucking game.
Management provide the ideas and inspiration and organisation - isn't that what they are paid for.....?
[cite]Posted By: Off_it[/cite]They have tried their best but are clearly devoid of the ideas, inspiration or whatever to be able to convince our players that they can actually win a fucking game.
Management provide the ideas and inspiration and organisation - isn't that what they are paid for.....?
Supposedly Oggy, supposedly. I don't like saying it, but enough is enough.
I was undecided but, after that debacle tonight, we need at least Parkinson to go and if we can afford it, the whole lot of them. Whatever any of the players say in public or the press, they aren't playing for him and to make the changes he did tonight was just unforgivable-to bring on Matt Holland at right wing to shore things up when you've already got Spring, Bailey and Racon playing just invites more trouble. And To add to that, Kandol (a fecking loanee) decided to sit back for the last ten minutes which was even more of an invitation for them to come at us-if the game had gone on another five minutes, we'd have lost. The man's clueless-why have we got loanees and players about to be out of contract starting and coming off the bench when they're not going to around next season???? Also when there's 11 men in the box defending, why are there two opposition players completely unmarked at the far post? Do people not know who they're supposed to be marking?
I've been the most loyal Charlton fan you could meet over the last 20 years but I've got a beautiful young family now and I genuinely can't think of any good reason why I should spend less time with them next season so I can devote it to watching my team go down the pan with that pr1ck in charge. Does that make me disloyal?
I've been the most loyal Charlton fan you could meet over the last 20 years but I've got a beautiful young family now and I genuinely can't think of any good reason why I should spend less time with them next season so I can devote it to watching my team go down the pan with that pr1ck in charge. Does that make me disloyal?
i know how you feel, it really is depressing the crap that's being served up and to arrive so quickly after the glory years makes it even more painful
Comments
Oh the joys of opinions!
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/newmanagementteam_charlton/index.html
103 genuine signatures, but could do with many more before long, so this can be forwarded to the Charlton hirearchy.
I voted to keep. I know he hasnt done well enough but my worry is that a new broom could be just as bad and we'd be even further in trouble. Im of the mind that we see how the season starts, give him to December 1st and make a decision then.
That's not strictly true, Drawna.
For example, despite inheriting a poisoned chalice, Pards made a fair stab at getting us out of relegation trouble in the Prem.
Starting with that famous 4-0 win against Curbs' West Ham, we had a decent run of results and surfaced out of the bottom 3 by Easter.
Ok, the wheels fell off at the death - but as VFR boomed out round the Valley as Tottenham relegated us, nobody felt Pardew had let us down really. In fact, if Prem results under his stewardship had been replicated over the whole season, we'd have reasonably comfortably stayed up.
We started last season in the Champs reasonably well too, despite only 1 point out of the first 2 games - then went 8 matches unbeaten, winning most of them.
By November, after back to back wins away at Southampton and Bristol City, we were 2nd in the table (compare to this season), but maintained 5th place until after Easter.
But losing Andy Reid, the 'brains' of the side, plus disasterous man management as a result of the desperate loan signings caused the freefall after that, which culminated in relegation this season.
So Pards true decline, as far as measured by perormances/ results, appeared to start around late Feb/early March.
And he finished badly overall.
But there were 2 distinct periods, when he appeared to have it right.
Blimey, never thought I'd stick up for Pardew! ...... but need to put it into perspective.
Wholeheartedly agree and it was the board enforced sale of Andy Reid that started our decline from being promotion contenders through to mid table mediocrity through to relegation. Afterwards Pardew clearly had a brain melt.
Wonder why you say it was a board enforced move when by all accounts including Richard Murrays at last weeks EGM say that it was Reids decision due to the vastly increased salary?
And there was the lure of his old Ireland mentor and hero at Sunderland.
But Reid was under contract, and if the Board (or Pardew) had said NO,
then Reid would have had to stay.
If we can get at least 3 points from the last 3 games (more the better naturally) then we will be finishing the season with some (relative) momentum and can look forward positively to next season with the same management team and a core of some of the present players (many will leave of course) - imho a new broom would sweep that momentum away, increase instability and make it harder to make a strong start to next season.
In addition we will have players leaving on contract expirees and bids that the board may find hard to resist for oour better players.
That happened last year. Bougherra, Iwelumo, McCarthy, Bent, Faye and Thomas all left, and we released Powell, Thatcher, Gibbs, Monteiro, Smith and had several loanees return to their main clubs.
Cheers, Salad. I did mention specifically performances/ results in my post and replied in that context.
I thought the signings, successful or otherwise, weren't really the principle topic of Drawnablanks original post that I was replying to.
But of course, that's another entire chapter to put under the microscope ..... if we haven't done that enough already! lol
Mandaric also admitted that relegation to League One cost in the region of £10 million, but is still adamant that manager Nigel Pearson will have the funds required for the Foxes to mount a challenge in the Championship next season.
Why am I agreeing with you????
But Dave Rudd also makes a very telling point about the management team behind the scenes. ideally we want another Murray-Varney-Manager combo that works in harness and harmony.
There is a huge assumption in that statement that the Board enforced the sale of Reid. As I understand it, Pardew wanted to bring more players in and the Board said fine but there's no money (and bear in mind Pardew had spent alot already). I believe that Thomas or Reid were lined up by Pardew who clearly felt he needed another striker to go with the four he had already signed. Thomas' deal to Pompey didn't go through and so Reid was sold. Despite what people think, I don't believe that Reid had to be sold at that time, I believe the club could have waited until the end of the season.
As for keeping Parky well I voted for a complete change but I entirely understand those who find difficulty making up their minds.
In my view Parky was appointed because the job had already been lined up for him. Thus he was the default candidate. I doubt whether the board seriously considered anybody else because it was largely set in stone. They didn't give him the job permenantly straight away to give themselves the appearance of some wriggle room which they didn't intend to use. They expected him to win one or two games, bearing in mind the teams we were up against. When no game was won, they had no realistic plan B so they came up with the "well performances have improved even though results haven't". Personally I think its a case of we all can't agree on anybody else, Parky was the "chosen" successor, moneys tight, he's in situ so lets affirm him as the permanent manager because any other course is also full of risk. I think it was a fudge and now they've still got the same dilemma!
Back him or sack him.
And if the Board do back him, then we might as well get behind him for the sake of unity, and back him too.
I think all the 'improvement' we've talked about is so much hot air. What improvement ? Look at the table tonight and Parkinson hasn't in any tangible way revived our fortunes by one iota. We're not going down on goal difference or by one or two points. We're a yawning chasm of 12 pts off safety with two games to go!
So if the results are still dire, what about the much vaunted 'improvement' in performances? Well, ZZ and Racon have returned from injury and Shelvey is beginning to realise all that abundant promise. Frankly, that would have led to an improvement even if we'd made the training ground cat manager.
Great post by Bing , BTW, on the dilemma the board have created for themselves. And they really are now impaled upon the horns of it...
They are clearly not up to the job in The Championship, and there is no evidence to show they will do any better in League 1.
If last minute give-aways are your bag, then keep 'em.
Otherwise, a very large broom is needed and get some professionalism back into the club on the First Team coaching staff.
I had hoped that Kinsella would be a future Charlton manager, but no longer, and that saddens me.
**CLEAR OUT**
Hate is a strong word, but parky for the love of god, F**k OFF!!!
Im so pissed off, really really pissing pissed off!!!
Go.
Management provide the ideas and inspiration and organisation - isn't that what they are paid for.....?
Supposedly Oggy, supposedly. I don't like saying it, but enough is enough.
I've been the most loyal Charlton fan you could meet over the last 20 years but I've got a beautiful young family now and I genuinely can't think of any good reason why I should spend less time with them next season so I can devote it to watching my team go down the pan with that pr1ck in charge. Does that make me disloyal?
Wasn't there, but that seems to say it all...
i know how you feel, it really is depressing the crap that's being served up and to arrive so quickly after the glory years makes it even more painful