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Tears and tiers: back where we belong

edited April 2009 in General Charlton
It hurts, doesn't it? We're no longer where we should be. We're not where we belong.

But where do we belong? Are Charlton really a Premiership club? Are we really a tier-three club? If we're honest, Charlton's level, Charlton's position, Charlton's realistic place in the English football hierarchy is somewhere in the top half of tier two. It's not Wigan Athletic (10th in the Permiership) who are keeping Charlton's "proper" seat warm. And it's not Huddersfield Town (10th in League One). It's Ipswich (10th in the Championship) who occupy the place that is where Charlton should be. And that has got to be next year's target. Aim to get (no higher than) where we belong.

Next season is not about putting into place a plan to get us on the brink of European football as soon as possible. Equally, it's not about ensuring we have a long-term plan for survival on a limited budget in League One. It's about getting us, as soon as practical, back to our proper place, a few places off the top of the Championship; with a balanced team and balanced books; attacking intentions on the pitch, conservative practicalities off it; dreaming of what might be, but still able to sleep without worrying about what could be.

The last quarter century has been an almighty roller-coaster, with some low points, matched, and mightily exceeded by some un-predicatable, unimaginable highs. From the brink of bankruptcy to the brink of Europe. Welling to Wembley (remember the brilliant book of that title? Or the unpublished sequel "... And Back"?). Lawrence, Curbishley, Kinsella, Robinson, Di Canio, Parker. Five at Maine Road. Four at Highbury. The Christmas masssacre of Chelsea. Mendonca's hat-trick at Wembley. Lisbee's hat-trick against Liverpool. None of those triumphs could have happened without the brilliant, imaginative, forward-thinking, passionate, understated fans of Charlton.

Yes, I have witnessed all of those great events close-hand. Yet what's my biggest regret as a Charlton fan?

Back in the eighties, Charlton were in real trouble, facing oblivion, almost hopeless, literally homeless and in desperate need of real, proper support. The Valley Party was set up and a VIP scheme announced. All I needed to do was bung the football club a cheque and secure my seat for years to come. But I wavered. I had been convinced by the doom-mongers. Those "fans" who said it was over. The not-so-silent majority who questioned: "why bother?". "Charlton's had it", "Charlton's dead", "We're gone". I listened to them, believed them and didn't bother. So, my regret? When Charlton really, really needed me and my support, I didn't show it.

Twenty five years ago I dared to dream. I dared to dream that my football club would survive. And not only survive, but to become a stronger club. A forward-thinking, family, community-oriented, grounded club to be proud of. You know what? Dreams do come true. And we owe a huge debt of thanks to the supporters who made it happen.

This time round, I'm going to be one of the ones that makes it happen. I may not agree with everything the club has done over the last season. But I am fiercely relieved that, thanks to the country's best football fans, twenty five years ago, we've lived to see the story unfold. The next chapter starts here http://www.cafc.co.uk/valley_gold.ink and here http://www.cafc.co.uk/newsview.ink?nid=34091 right now.
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Comments

  • [cite]Posted By: Chizz[/cite]It hurts, doesn't it? We're no longer where we should be. We're not where we belong.

    But wheredowe belong? Are Charltonreallya Premiership club? Are we really a tier-three club? If we're honest, Charlton's level, Charlton's position, Charlton's realistic place in the English football hierarchy is somewhere in the top half of tier two. It's not Wigan Athletic (10th in the Permiership) who are keeping Charlton's "proper" seat warm. And it's not Huddersfield Town (10th in League One).



    It's Ipswich (10th in the Championship) who occupy the place that is where Charltonshouldbe. And that has got to be next year's target. Aim to get (no higher than) where we belong.

    Towards the end of last season, we went into freefall after we threw away our 'rightful 5th position', and finished 11th.

    So finishing 11th was pretty near the place where Charlton should be.
    In that case, last season was a succesful year.....?

    ;o)
  • But where do we belong? Are Charlton really a Premiership club? Are we really a tier-three club? If we're honest, Charlton's level, Charlton's position, Charlton's realistic place in the English football hierarchy is somewhere in the top half of tier two.

    I agree with this statement but I know quite a few on here will disagree......Over to you Henry ;0)
  • Spot on! It's up to us as fans to really play our part. Yes we have been let down and we could all easily give up but thats not us and thats not Charlton. We need to make sure that next season in League one we are all there at The Valley we need to have a good gate every week and be the big fish in League one. With our support we can help this club back to it's feet. Suopporting Charlton has never been easy but no other club has had the help of the fans like ours has and that is what makes our club special. So lets all get behind the club and pull in the same direction. I agree we could easily give up and walk away but if we did that then none of us are real charlton fans after all. Charlton has come back from harder times than this before and we will come back again. Up the Addicks
  • [cite]Posted By: Oggy Red[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: Chizz[/cite]It hurts, doesn't it? We're no longer where we should be. We're not where we belong.

    But wheredowe belong? Are Charltonreallya Premiership club? Are we really a tier-three club? If we're honest, Charlton's level, Charlton's position, Charlton's realistic place in the English football hierarchy is somewhere in the top half of tier two. It's not Wigan Athletic (10th in the Permiership) who are keeping Charlton's "proper" seat warm. And it's not Huddersfield Town (10th in League One).



    It's Ipswich (10th in the Championship) who occupy the place that is where Charltonshouldbe. And that has got to be next year's target. Aim to get (no higher than) where we belong.

    Towards the end of last season, we went into freefall after we threw away our 'rightful 5th position', and finished 11th.

    So finishing 11th was pretty near the place where Charlton should be.
    In that case, last season was a succesful year.....?

    ;o)

    No we obviously underachieved by one place .Didnt you read it ?
  • [cite]Posted By: Oggy Red[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: Chizz[/cite]It hurts, doesn't it? We're no longer where we should be. We're not where we belong.

    But wheredowe belong? Are Charltonreallya Premiership club? Are we really a tier-three club? If we're honest, Charlton's level, Charlton's position, Charlton's realistic place in the English football hierarchy is somewhere in the top half of tier two. It's not Wigan Athletic (10th in the Permiership) who are keeping Charlton's "proper" seat warm. And it's not Huddersfield Town (10th in League One).



    It's Ipswich (10th in the Championship) who occupy the place that is where Charltonshouldbe. And that has got to be next year's target. Aim to get (no higher than) where we belong.

    Towards the end of last season, we went into freefall after we threw away our 'rightful 5th position', and finished 11th.

    So finishing 11th was pretty near the place where Charlton should be.
    In that case, last season was a succesful year.....?

    ;o)

    11th place in the Championship? I'd take that in 2010-11.
  • Don't agree with this 'we belong championship in a particular place etc.

    All clubs are where there status is at the time because that is where events of the season have put them. Nothing is written in stone and we should not accept mediocrity of mid table Championship nor should we expect and take Premiership status for granted if and when it comes again as it was by much of the new wave support that grew with the clubs success.

    The fact that teams move from non league obscurity to the Premiership, or bankrupt and fall out of the league as Accrignton Stanley did and 40 years later re emerge to football league status shows there are no pre ordained positions for any club.

    Of course the financial status of some clubs is greater than others which give them the advantage of better status but clubs that have believed and aspired to greater things have achieved their goal also.
  • if there were a chance that we could go out of business you could count on me to participate in a 'VIP2', would want Henry or AFKA or .... back on the board tho'.
  • Sadly, we are exactly where we belong and that is bottom of the table. Wherever we start next season will be where we belong.
    I agree whole heartedly with StrikerFirmani nothing is written in stone. I'd hate to think that there are rightful places within certain divisions for certain teams.
  • [cite]Posted By: Stig[/cite]Sadly, we are exactly where we belong and that is bottom of the table. Wherever we start next season will be where we belong.
    I agree whole heartedly with StrikerFirmani nothing is written in stone. I'd hate to think that there are rightful places within certain divisions for certain teams.


    Think a few Spurs fans might argue that!
  • I guess our 'normal' place has been in the 2nd tier over a great deal of my supporting period since 1966.

    I was having lunch with my daughter today who is just up at Uni remebering when I used to drive her down to the closed Valley as a small baby to get her off to sleep
    as she always slept in the car seat. Looking over the work to get us back there in 92, that had been delayed (we were heading to Upton Park) , who would have guessed what was to follow,even with Oggy's Rose Tinteds I wouldn't have dared to imagine both how well we would do or how quickly we would fall.
    Can we rise again , I hope we can, its critical we get off to a good start next year and this close season much has to be done on the playing side to clear out
    all those that are not commited to the cause.
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  • i reckon that's a cracking post Chizz

    end of the day we are a middle of the road Division Two club... we will have ups and downs on that status but we are thereabouts on average... we fully deserve our (hopefully brief) stay in Division Three but on balance we should be headed back to our level asap
  • [cite]Posted By: ISawLeaburnScore[/cite] ...on balance we should be headed back to our level asap

    And that's exactly my point. We're going to have a very, very good League One squad next season. Probably with some Premiership experience, certainly with some top-Championship experience and un-arguably with some of the best youngsters in the division. That gives us a great chance to get back, within one season, to where we "should" be.

    And, with a promotion-winning season next season, which real fan would bet against us having a crack at a Premiership place the following season?

    THAT is why I'm signing up for next season's ST as soon as possible and joining Valley Gold. Anyone else care to join?
  • [cite]Posted By: Chizz[/cite] We're going to have a very, very good League One squad next season.

    i beg to differ on this opinion....
    of todays team , i'm pretty sure only elliot, youga and sam will be left maybe one or two others at best
  • [cite]Posted By: oohaahmortimer[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: Chizz[/cite]We're going to have a very, very good League One squad next season.

    i beg to differ on this opinion....
    of todays team , i'm pretty sure only elliot, youga and sam will be left maybe one or two others at best

    I'm not sure I agree with you that Butterfield, Hudson, Ward, Racon, Zheng, Shelvey, Bailey AND Kandol will all go in the Summer.
  • hope you're right chizz but unfortunately i'm usually right on most things ;-(
  • people are deluded unless we are taken over we are absolutely skint,even with 15k season ticket holders we would have to offload players.About time people get real,all this renew early bo***ks it won't make a bit of difference.
  • Making guesses at the moment doesn't actually serve any practical purpose - and is speculation simply for the point of speculation.
    Not only do none of us actually know - but most of the players won't know either yet.

    You might as well bet on the weather for the next match.
    You've more chance of calling it right.

    ;o)
  • There's another thread on this topic from a few weeks back which I can't find. It was all about clubs finding their 'natural level' and Henry Irving got quite cross about it , arguing that there was no such thing.

    That said, tier three is not our 'natural level'. We have spent very few years there and I don't think we will spend more than a season there this time, either.

    But then, as I have said elsewhere, I'm actually one of life's eternal optimists (which Oggy may be surprised to hear!) I've never believed in the notion that it's 'the hope that kills us'. It's actually hope that keeps us alive and makes us reborn everytime Saturday comes around...
  • [cite]Posted By: nigel w[/cite]

    But then, as I have said elsewhere, I'm actually one of life's eternal optimists (which Oggy may be surprised to hear!) I've never believed in the notion that it's 'the hope that kills us'.

    It's actually hope that keeps us alive and makes us reborn everytime Saturday comes around...

    lol .... but you're dead right, Nigel!

    Of course it's all about hope ...... you don't book a holiday, then spend the month before you go - moaning that you expect it will rain everyday.

    It's been a shit season. But having a 'glass half full' mentality has not made it quite so painful for me to bear.
    Meaning I could stay cheerier for longer.

    And you get to appreciate the positives when you look for them.

    ;o)
  • Good post.

    I think in the modern game every club will over the long term find a level which is equal to it's financial means - funds from fans and directors. A "big club" is one which has big support. I can see Leeds back in the premiership in the next few years and Forest will be back in the Championship if they stutter this term. I think this is more important than the historical perspective.

    Finances are not the only driver of sucess or otherwise - clubs bat above their weight for a while (as we did) if they have a good manager or for other reasons but these are transigent - the finances tell in the long term.

    We as fans can help to support the club by renewing our season tickets ASAP so the board know what they have to spend on next years squad. Charlton will find their level in the next few years dependent on our support (and the directors continued financial support). I think 10-12,000 season ticket sales = a promotion chasing season - less and we will stay and deserve to stay in league one and possibly league two for the forseeable future.
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  • [cite]Posted By: Oggy Red[/cite]

    Of course it's all about hope ...... you don't book a holiday, then spend the month before you go - moaning that you expect it will rain everyday.

    wrong , went to dubai 2 weeks back and i knew it would rain ,(been there 6 times and it's rained on 5 of them) shock horror it rained !! first time in years it's rained there in march and april FACT!! my wife said ' i bet you're happy now ' and i said 'no i'm just right again' ;-)
  • [cite]Posted By: oohaahmortimer[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: Chizz[/cite]We're going to have a very, very good League One squad next season.

    i beg to differ on this opinion....
    of todays team , i'm pretty sure only elliot, youga and sam will be left maybe one or two others at best

    I make you spot on with maybe one of Racon/Shelvey too.
  • When I look back to my boyhood supporting days in the 60's/early 70's, Charlton had been esconced in the real Division 2 for a period which eventually spanned around15 years.

    Who did we play regularly at The Valley in those days?

    I'll tell you, amongst others, the clubs I regularly remember seeing:

    Cardiff City,
    Portsmouth
    Blackpool
    Birmingham
    Wolves
    Derby
    Bolton
    Blackburn
    Middlesborough
    Huddersfield
    Aston Villa

    ..... who had all previously had lengthy spells relatively recently in the top tier First Division.
    As had, of course, Charlton themselves.

    All these famous old clubs had lost what they saw as their 'rightful' place in the top league.
    The pendulum had swung, and they'd been replaced by clubs like Forest, Leeds, Southampton, Coventry, Burnley, Ipswich, etc

    Back in the late 70's in old Division 2, we'd played (and beaten) Chelsea, Spurs and missed playing Man Utd by just one season.

    The pendulum swings.

    Of my original list, only Cardiff, Blackpool and Huddersfield have yet to make it back to the top flight.
    All the others are either current Premier clubs or have had decent spells back.

    But back in the late 60's, most of those clubs were in decline and you wouldn't have foreseen that they would regain their' rightful' place in the top league in years to come.
  • I think it's too simplistic to say Charlton or any club has "their level".
    Yes, maybe based on us being a 2nd tier club more than any other tier to date.
    But history doesn't stand still, and if we spend the next 50 years in tier 3 would that then be called our natural level?
    Why limit ourselves by being content to see our club at some level where we supposedly belong.
    The ressurection of CAFC starts in August, baby, yehhhhhhh.....
  • [cite]Posted By: oohaahmortimer[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: Oggy Red[/cite]

    Of course it's all about hope ...... you don't book a holiday, then spend the month before you go - moaning that you expect it will rain everyday.

    wrong , went to dubai 2 weeks back and i knew it would rain ,(been there 6 times and it's rained on 5 of them) shock horror it rained !! first time in years it's rained there in march and april FACT!! my wife said ' i bet you're happy now ' and i said 'no i'm just right again' ;-)

    Lol, Ooh Aah.

    Despite your happy disposition, you're still married .... your missus isn't Curbs by any chance ?

    ;o)
  • There have been quite a few threads like this recently, and understandably so. There have been so many contributory factors to our downfall that you could write a book (though a very boring one) about it. This kind of navel gazing, introspective self analysis doesn't serve any purpose. It's already too late.

    I tend to take the realistic position, that is, Charlton are in the position they are in because of the football they play. I don't actually believe we "belong" anywhere. The points do not lie.

    No team doesn't/does deserve to get relegated anymore than they belong to the league they play in. Perhaps this idea of "belonging" has been instrumental in our failure. The board ended up treating our place in the premier league like a poker game, betting too highly on a bad hand.

    Ironically, as we get relegated, I watch the best side I've seen for four years, most of who were there all the time anyway.
  • edited April 2009
    Six-a-bag0f-nuts wrote : ''if we spend the next 50 years in tier 3 ...''

    There are some miserablists on here who think that's an extremely rose-tinted expectation, Sixer!
  • unfortunately 'she's' not curbs but i'm going to dartford to see curbs on thursday evening but i wont be telling the missus cos she'll get jealous or her hopes up that she'll get rid of me!!
  • If you seeing Curbs on Thursday behind your wife's back, what will you whisper in his ear ...?
  • [cite]Posted By: Oggy Red[/cite]If you seeing Curbs on Thursdaybehind your wife's back, what will you whisper in his ear ...?

    i'll ask him if he'd ever comeback to an old flame
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