Sympathise with him for inheriting such an unbalanced squad from Pardew but the worst performances under Parkinson have been as a result of poor management rather than lack of decent players in key positions. Having managed to string together 3 decent results (Plymouth, Barnsley, Swansea) and given us a grain of hope, to then lose so poorly at home to Doncaster and Watford is disgraceful.
He signed Deon Burton. You didn't need an FA coaching badge to work out that, however cheap he was, it was still a waste of money.
I honestly think that under decent management, the side we had at the start of the season was good enough to challenge for promotion. The absence of Zheng and Racon might be a valid argument for finishing mid-table rather than play-offs but is not an acceptable reason for being bottom of the table. Youga and Moutouakil looked the business when they first broke into the side - that they have gone backwards rather than forwards is down to poor management and coaching. I expect both to leave in the summer under Parkinson and most probably be replaced by aging has-beens.
Mid table at best next season with Parkinson in charge. A cakewalk to the title with someone else.
The criticism of PP is beyond cruel. Okay I think he is lightweight but I am in no position to say "he is not worthy of the job". I have no team managment experience (or anything else) for that matter. Who else was there to take over Pardew? Not even I could answer that. Getting sick of the bitchiness to the point some even had to criticise his suit at Wolves the other week.
[cite]Posted By: pork_pie[/cite]The criticism of PP is beyond cruel. Okay I think he is lightweight but I am in no position to say "he is not worthy of the job". I have no team managment experience (or anything else) for that matter. Who else was there to take over Pardew? Not even I could answer that. Getting sick of the bitchiness to the point some even had to criticise his suit at Wolves the other week.
i agree. there is a section of our support that need to get a grip. if now isn't the time to pull together then when is?
[quote][cite]Posted By: pork_pie[/cite]The criticism of PP is beyond cruel. Okay I think he is lightweight but I am in no position to say "he is not worthy of the job". I have no team managment experience (or anything else) for that matter. Who else was there to take over Pardew? Not even I could answer that. Getting sick of the bitchiness to the point some even had to criticise his suit at Wolves the other week.[/quote]
Ince was available for starters. Let's not forget, the board appointed him caretaker and said his permanent appointment would be based on results, then took him on anyway after 8 games without a win. I don't agree with personal abuse against PP - he seems like a nice bloke. However, criticising him is not cruel, if we invest money in the club through season tickets etc then we're entitled to voice an opinion. I've got no experience of managing a football team either but I've been watching Charlton for nearly 20 years and as such would say that I'm as qualified as anyone to point out where things are going wrong. You don't need to be Arsene Wenger to work out that we've been absolutely pitiful this season.
i agree. there is a section of our support that need to get a grip. if now isn't the time to pull together then when is?[/quote]
We do indeed need to pull together - to ensure that positive action is taken and a manager appointed who is capable of taking us back up. What good does it acheive to pull together behind a manager who will lead us to several years of Div 3 mediocrity. And what is your definition of pulling together anyway? Close our eyes, all hold hands and ignore the woeful reality of what has happening on the pitch week in week out since February last year.
Agreed PP & BBC. Give the bloke a chance! He inherited a shockingly poor team & has been given no money to improve it. I would like to see him given time to build his own team before we all line up to shoot him down.
What's the point of playing 4-4-2 when both of our "strikers" in that team would be as clueless as Kandol & Dickson. Far better to play 4-5-1, with a quality attacking midfielder like ZZ or Shelvey. I can't believe that some on here can't see that Parky's preferred 4-5-1 formation has to be better than any team with 2 useless strikers.
[cite]Posted By: TelinOz[/cite]Sadly I have to say that I dont think he is up to it...
I don't think its too much of a case of whether he is up to it or not (i reckon 90% of managers are near enough similar in abilities).
I just think now it is a case of circumstances. Near enough everything surrounding the club is failing at present, and if we are honest has done over the past two years. It needs to be broken, and it needs to be broken by outsiders, at all levels of the club IMO.
No. Not because I'm convinced that he'll get us straight back up next season, but because I'm not convinced that there's another manager out there who could, that would be willing to come to us and we could afford.
Reading through this thread from the top, I also endorse Pork Pie's ''lightweight'' description and Len Glover's fear (and Aliwibble's) that we might not be able to get anyone better.
But to break the cycle of under-achievement, defeatism and general air of rust and decay, reinvigoration is essential and I reluctantly agree it can only come from outside (although there's no guarantee, as Dowie and Pardew proved).
So sorry, PP. And KInsella goes with him, too, I fear. But why oh why wasn't it done last November or December ??? If Charlton Life could see it, why couldn't the board?
[cite]Posted By: nigel w[/cite]
So sorry, PP. And KInsella goes with him, too, I fear. But why oh why wasn't it done last November or December ??? If Charlton Life could see it, why couldn't the board?
Because everyone on here bats on without without a single consideration that behind every decision in football you have to make, there is a financial one that has to follow it.
The reason for Parkinson being given the job is clear, there is zero money in the club and it is losing money now hand over fist.
If Parkinson was to be released, he would have to be paid off. Then that would have meant the sale of a player in January (when arguably we have no one who would have attracted a bid), and not be able to bring anyone player wise into the club, either on a signing or on loan. if you got rid of Parkinson, you have to pay him off (what, £250k for the 1 1/2 years on his contract ??).
If there was no £250k to pay him off, and banks won't give us an overdraft facility, where does it come from ? At the time, we were still very much in the mix. I now understand the boards view that with the cupboard so bare, we were best trying to bring a few fresh faces in to try and freshen the squad up.
It didn't work at all, as i wrote that i feared at the time, but i can now appreciate why it was done, which i probably didn't then. Again, it was yet another wrong decision with hindsight.
I know the financial position and how it dictated the board's thinking at the time.
But what I was refering to was that many people on CL said that it was a bad decision not only in footballing terms but also in financal terms, as the failure to bring in an 'impact' manager meant we were going to be playing in div three with lower gates, low take-up of S/T renewals and all the other financial implications of relegation.
And if PP goes this summer, he will have to be paid off anyway. Much better, surely, to have bitten the bullet financially last year when there was stll time to save our championship status...I know I wrote that on here at the time and so did plenty of others.
It's a yes for me I'm afraid. Again not because there's an obvious alternative that ain't going to cost us cash we can't afford (although I doubt Eddie Howe at Bournemouth for instance would break the bank and is clearly an up and coming young manager). I agree we need to break the cycle of negativity that seems to be running through the club and having Parky around next year is not going to acheive that. I'm all for giving people a chance but when your record is as bad as his is you have to face facts.
[cite]Posted By: nigel w[/cite]And if PP goes this summer, he will have to be paid off anyway. Much better, surely, to have bitten the bullet financially last year when there was stll time to save our championship status...I know I wrote that on here at the time and so did plenty of others.
i think you hit the nail on the head with the line
"Near enough everything surrounding the club is failing at present, and if we are honest has done over the past two years. It needs to be broken, and it needs to be broken by outsiders, at all levels of the club IMO."
I think and it has been done to death that there are wholsale changes needed in the football club
starting with the mgmt team, playing staff and top level running of the club,
i have had my rant and calmed down from it, taking the view that if i have nothing positive to say right now i am best of saying nothing as i am just begining to wind myself up when i have more important things to worry about that i can influence, i cant change the position we are in i can not influence the state of affairs and there is not much support for trying.
I was happy with what Muzza had to say last week and i posted that, I was 3 months back worried that it was a mistake that we will regret although i could see the logic, i gave the club my trust i gave them my eyes and ears and perhaps analised everything written and spoken too much, getting caught up on phrases like
1.results have to improve not just performances 2.we only need one win, 3.we are going the right way, 4 we just need a bit of fortune, 5 we will be able to use the transfer market by keeping Parky on and give ourselves a chance, 6 we need stability
Unfortunatly not one of the 6 comments came good
and i think with heavy heart and pain in my head the CAFC era has come to an end
with any end of an era a new saviour is needed and if one thing charlton have proved above all others it is that the chain can not survive with 1 weak link, but if you get all aspects right then the impossible is somehow possible.
I really thought we'd hit rock bottom with the losing streak , and that once that was broken, with Parky's more measured approach, we could start to rebuild (albeit from Div 3).
That's pretty much still where I am, and I really loathe the idea of yet another managerial change and all the upheaval that brings.
But I do have some doubts - there are clearly things wrong in other areas too, and the lack of any incomig investment is weighing heavily. I imagine that Murray's main motivation in doing the press rounds last week was to attract attention and try and find some more backing if at all possible.
I'm not sure what getting rid of Parky would achieve in the present cisrcumstances - with no more money, I'd favour stability.
If there are more wholesale changes on the horizon, as AFKA hints, then it's a different matter.
We do indeed need to pull together - to ensure that positive action is taken and a manager appointed who is capable of taking us back up. What good does it acheive to pull together behind a manager who will lead us to several years of Div 3 mediocrity. And what is your definition of pulling together anyway? Close our eyes, all hold hands and ignore the woeful reality of what has happening on the pitch week in week out since February last year.
A good start at pulling together would be renewing season tickets and getting behind the team next year. I think giving the manager a chance would be a good idea too, but that's just my opinion.
You don't know that this manager will lead us to several years of division 3 mediocrity in the same way i don't know he will lead us to the league title next year with a record number of points. Richard Murray and the board are in a better position than us to decide on parky's future, so when they do i'd say get behind the team and the man in charge. That is pulling together: be patient and turn up in numbers.
Do people really think that we need some kind of fan protest so that the board will realise the position we're in? They know how results have gone and they want success at least as much as the rest of us. I don't understand the idea of needing to pull together to let the board know we're not happy with results. They've probably guessed that already.
I am 100% no but probably for entirely the wrong reasons:
1) Murray and Co havent had too good a track record of appointing Managers recently
2) There is no obvious candidate in the price bracket and no money to pay off PP
3) We need new investment and I would have thought by end of next season (May 2010) to bank the value of the 2012 Olympics
4) New Investment will probably want to choose their own man anyway
5) Parkys contract will be up by then
6) Parkys Colchester record in League 1 is reasonable with a small budget
7) There is no money in the club so its going to be at best tinkering with the Payroll of the 22 players squad. Parky did nuture some good players with Colchester and Hull.
I love reason (1), IMiss : in essence, with their track record Murrray and co. will only go and appoint the wrong man again so we might as well stick with the wrong man we've already got !
[cite]Posted By: nigel w[/cite]I love reason (1), IMiss : in essence, with their track record Murrray and co. will only go and appoint the wrong man again so we might as well stick with the wrong man we've already got !
LOL - but I do know exactly what you mean...
I dont see a new manager as this uplifting panacea that some do. Its not going to be Curbs or Sven is it. Cant think of 1 Manager who would get universal support. Ince and PDC have been mentioned but would not find favour with all fans and they would have no money anyway. I think it might just be best to sit tight and wait for an economic revival that will spearhead a fresh takeover. Until then we are just treading water and spending Directors money that they didnt really want to have to commit to the club.
I started this thread because I genuinly wanted to guage the level of support or lack that PP currently enjoyed amongst my fellow lifers. My conclusion for what its worth is that upwards of 95% want him replaced. This I suspect is the lowest approval rating that any Charlton manager has ever acheived and I include Dowie and Pardew in that. Surely Parkys position is untenable and if we want to unite and move forward again then he has to be sacked.
Comments
Sympathise with him for inheriting such an unbalanced squad from Pardew but the worst performances under Parkinson have been as a result of poor management rather than lack of decent players in key positions. Having managed to string together 3 decent results (Plymouth, Barnsley, Swansea) and given us a grain of hope, to then lose so poorly at home to Doncaster and Watford is disgraceful.
He signed Deon Burton. You didn't need an FA coaching badge to work out that, however cheap he was, it was still a waste of money.
I honestly think that under decent management, the side we had at the start of the season was good enough to challenge for promotion. The absence of Zheng and Racon might be a valid argument for finishing mid-table rather than play-offs but is not an acceptable reason for being bottom of the table. Youga and Moutouakil looked the business when they first broke into the side - that they have gone backwards rather than forwards is down to poor management and coaching. I expect both to leave in the summer under Parkinson and most probably be replaced by aging has-beens.
Mid table at best next season with Parkinson in charge. A cakewalk to the title with someone else.
Get someone in who teaches players to close down.
i agree. there is a section of our support that need to get a grip. if now isn't the time to pull together then when is?
Ince was available for starters. Let's not forget, the board appointed him caretaker and said his permanent appointment would be based on results, then took him on anyway after 8 games without a win. I don't agree with personal abuse against PP - he seems like a nice bloke. However, criticising him is not cruel, if we invest money in the club through season tickets etc then we're entitled to voice an opinion. I've got no experience of managing a football team either but I've been watching Charlton for nearly 20 years and as such would say that I'm as qualified as anyone to point out where things are going wrong. You don't need to be Arsene Wenger to work out that we've been absolutely pitiful this season.
We do indeed need to pull together - to ensure that positive action is taken and a manager appointed who is capable of taking us back up. What good does it acheive to pull together behind a manager who will lead us to several years of Div 3 mediocrity. And what is your definition of pulling together anyway? Close our eyes, all hold hands and ignore the woeful reality of what has happening on the pitch week in week out since February last year.
What's the point of playing 4-4-2 when both of our "strikers" in that team would be as clueless as Kandol & Dickson. Far better to play 4-5-1, with a quality attacking midfielder like ZZ or Shelvey. I can't believe that some on here can't see that Parky's preferred 4-5-1 formation has to be better than any team with 2 useless strikers.
I don't think its too much of a case of whether he is up to it or not (i reckon 90% of managers are near enough similar in abilities).
I just think now it is a case of circumstances. Near enough everything surrounding the club is failing at present, and if we are honest has done over the past two years. It needs to be broken, and it needs to be broken by outsiders, at all levels of the club IMO.
Reading through this thread from the top, I also endorse Pork Pie's ''lightweight'' description and Len Glover's fear (and Aliwibble's) that we might not be able to get anyone better.
But to break the cycle of under-achievement, defeatism and general air of rust and decay, reinvigoration is essential and I reluctantly agree it can only come from outside (although there's no guarantee, as Dowie and Pardew proved).
So sorry, PP. And KInsella goes with him, too, I fear. But why oh why wasn't it done last November or December ??? If Charlton Life could see it, why couldn't the board?
Because everyone on here bats on without without a single consideration that behind every decision in football you have to make, there is a financial one that has to follow it.
The reason for Parkinson being given the job is clear, there is zero money in the club and it is losing money now hand over fist.
If Parkinson was to be released, he would have to be paid off. Then that would have meant the sale of a player in January (when arguably we have no one who would have attracted a bid), and not be able to bring anyone player wise into the club, either on a signing or on loan. if you got rid of Parkinson, you have to pay him off (what, £250k for the 1 1/2 years on his contract ??).
If there was no £250k to pay him off, and banks won't give us an overdraft facility, where does it come from ? At the time, we were still very much in the mix. I now understand the boards view that with the cupboard so bare, we were best trying to bring a few fresh faces in to try and freshen the squad up.
It didn't work at all, as i wrote that i feared at the time, but i can now appreciate why it was done, which i probably didn't then. Again, it was yet another wrong decision with hindsight.
But what I was refering to was that many people on CL said that it was a bad decision not only in footballing terms but also in financal terms, as the failure to bring in an 'impact' manager meant we were going to be playing in div three with lower gates, low take-up of S/T renewals and all the other financial implications of relegation.
And if PP goes this summer, he will have to be paid off anyway. Much better, surely, to have bitten the bullet financially last year when there was stll time to save our championship status...I know I wrote that on here at the time and so did plenty of others.
http://www.charltonlife.com/blog/?p=208
My flippant remark was that history was repeating itself and Ken Craggs has replaced Alan Mullery.
Maybe Kinsella is Lennie Lawrence although I hope to God we don't nearly go out of business like before...
There would be no way back this time.
Spot on.
i think you hit the nail on the head with the line
"Near enough everything surrounding the club is failing at present, and if we are honest has done over the past two years. It needs to be broken, and it needs to be broken by outsiders, at all levels of the club IMO."
I think and it has been done to death that there are wholsale changes needed in the football club
starting with the mgmt team, playing staff and top level running of the club,
i have had my rant and calmed down from it, taking the view that if i have nothing positive to say right now i am best of saying nothing as i am just begining to wind myself up when i have more important things to worry about that i can influence, i cant change the position we are in i can not influence the state of affairs and there is not much support for trying.
I was happy with what Muzza had to say last week and i posted that, I was 3 months back worried that it was a mistake that we will regret although i could see the logic, i gave the club my trust i gave them my eyes and ears and perhaps analised everything written and spoken too much, getting caught up on phrases like
1.results have to improve not just performances
2.we only need one win,
3.we are going the right way,
4 we just need a bit of fortune,
5 we will be able to use the transfer market by keeping Parky on and give ourselves a chance,
6 we need stability
Unfortunatly not one of the 6 comments came good
and i think with heavy heart and pain in my head the CAFC era has come to an end
with any end of an era a new saviour is needed and if one thing charlton have proved above all others it is that the chain can not survive with 1 weak link, but if you get all aspects right then the impossible is somehow possible.
heres hoping for better times ahead
That's pretty much still where I am, and I really loathe the idea of yet another managerial change and all the upheaval that brings.
But I do have some doubts - there are clearly things wrong in other areas too, and the lack of any incomig investment is weighing heavily. I imagine that Murray's main motivation in doing the press rounds last week was to attract attention and try and find some more backing if at all possible.
I'm not sure what getting rid of Parky would achieve in the present cisrcumstances - with no more money, I'd favour stability.
If there are more wholesale changes on the horizon, as AFKA hints, then it's a different matter.
A good start at pulling together would be renewing season tickets and getting behind the team next year. I think giving the manager a chance would be a good idea too, but that's just my opinion.
You don't know that this manager will lead us to several years of division 3 mediocrity in the same way i don't know he will lead us to the league title next year with a record number of points. Richard Murray and the board are in a better position than us to decide on parky's future, so when they do i'd say get behind the team and the man in charge. That is pulling together: be patient and turn up in numbers.
Do people really think that we need some kind of fan protest so that the board will realise the position we're in? They know how results have gone and they want success at least as much as the rest of us. I don't understand the idea of needing to pull together to let the board know we're not happy with results. They've probably guessed that already.
1) Murray and Co havent had too good a track record of appointing Managers recently
2) There is no obvious candidate in the price bracket and no money to pay off PP
3) We need new investment and I would have thought by end of next season (May 2010) to bank the value of the 2012 Olympics
4) New Investment will probably want to choose their own man anyway
5) Parkys contract will be up by then
6) Parkys Colchester record in League 1 is reasonable with a small budget
7) There is no money in the club so its going to be at best tinkering with the Payroll of the 22 players squad. Parky did nuture some good players with Colchester and Hull.
LOL - but I do know exactly what you mean...
I dont see a new manager as this uplifting panacea that some do. Its not going to be Curbs or Sven is it. Cant think of 1 Manager who would get universal support. Ince and PDC have been mentioned but would not find favour with all fans and they would have no money anyway. I think it might just be best to sit tight and wait for an economic revival that will spearhead a fresh takeover. Until then we are just treading water and spending Directors money that they didnt really want to have to commit to the club.