[quote][cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]AFKA made a point some months ago about not wanting to see one of his heroes, Kinsella, made boss as hearing him being slagged off or seeing him sacked would be heart breaking or words to that affect.
Yet if we have an "outside" manager that person will appoint their own team. So bye bye Kins and no welcome home Chrissy Powell perhaps.
And then the accusations will be "they are not real Charlton, we want Charlton people who bled red and white".
I'm not saying that that is a good enough reason for keeping them or Parky just that sacking someone, anyone, has consquences and it not always the easiest decision to make.[/quote]
Perhaps Kins leaving before he becomes manager would be a good thing? Then he can get more full on managerial experience at a lower level elsewhere and come back and save us...?
[cite]Posted By: aliwibble[/cite]
On the subject of alter egos - has OohAhhMortimer found a soulmate in "Fran1974" who commented on the Guardian article, or are they in fact one and the same person?
even i thought he was OTT but curbishley performed miracles for us and i prefer to deal in facts and to those who think curbishley was involved in our demise 47 points(22points from the last 20 games) and the Fa cup quarter finals are the facts in his final season everything else is pure conjecture.... the king is dead long live the king
[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]AFKA made a point some months ago about not wanting to see one of his heroes, Kinsella, made boss as hearing him being slagged off or seeing him sacked would be heart breaking or words to that affect.
Yet if we have an "outside" manager that person will appoint their own team. So bye bye Kins and no welcome home Chrissy Powell perhaps.
And then the accusations will be "they are not real Charlton, we want Charlton people who bled red and white".
I'm not saying that that is a good enough reason for keeping them or Parky just that sacking someone, anyone, has consquences and it not always the easiest decision to make.
Perhaps Kins leaving before he becomes manager would be a good thing? Then he can get more full on managerial experience at a lower level elsewhere and come back and save us...?
Oah Aah, always respect your point of view re: Curbs but facts and stats can be distorted to suit as wished.
Looking back at Curb's last season it's pretty interesting. (We won five our first six games - helluva start) but then won just 8 of the remaining 32 games.
We also couldn't manage an away win in the Premiership after October 22nd
In the FA Cup, the first other Premiership club we met, we got dumped out 4-2...
In reply to Rothko, this is what I wrote about the Fans Forum:
"Yes there is a Fans Forum. However, it exists as a 'replacement' for the recently abolished place on the Board for an elected Fans Director. Why was this abolished?"
Perhaps you could enlighten me, Rothko, as to how that is "banging on" (you mean 'criticising') about the Fans Forum, and why you'd expect me to clear this question with you before presenting it to the world at large as just one of many possible unexplained aspects of our demise.
As for Ben's gratuitously spiteful comment that I wanted the journo to speak to me, I've said many times that of course in Prague I'm out of it. The people who might have given Dominic Fifield some insights are those that served earlier on as Supporters Directors, those that worked tirelessly to create Valley Express and Target 10,000/40,000, and enjoyed the confidence of Messrs Murray and Varney in the years when things went right on and off the pitch.
I really dont see the point in banging on about Curbs anymore. Hes gone it was great but hes not coming back. This is not some artifical business game this is real. What matters is what is done now.
How long does a good Manager need to turn a club around? I really dont know. Southampton,Notts For,Norwich,Watford and Derby have all changed managers yet its quite likely one of those will go down with us/maybe 2. All have had far better points returns than Parky I am sure but perhaps at Charlton a bigger turnaround was needed. I have seen signs of improvement but I will need to see wins and clean sheets before I am convinced.
Like others have said I am glad I dont have to make these decisions.
If people are worried about this type of journalism you had better run to the hills there is a lot more of this type of stuff to come, we will be the new 'Leeds' or Sheffield Wednesday if we are unlucky enough, always mentioned in that tone of ' well they overreached' didn't they. At the moment it is almost curiosity, wait until we struggle in the next division down , the critics will really have a go...........
[cite]Posted By: PragueAddick[/cite]In reply to Rothko, this is what I wrote about the Fans Forum:
"Yes there is a Fans Forum. However, it exists as a 'replacement' for the recently abolished place on the Board for an elected Fans Director. Why was this abolished?"
Perhaps you could enlighten me, Rothko, as to how that is "banging on" (you mean 'criticising') about the Fans Forum, and why you'd expect me to clear this question with you before presenting it to the world at large as just one of many possible unexplained aspects of our demise.
As for Ben's gratuitously spiteful comment that I wanted the journo to speak to me, I've said many times that of course in Prague I'm out of it. The people who might have given Dominic Fifield some insights are those that served earlier on as Supporters Directors, those that worked tirelessly to create Valley Express and Target 10,000/40,000, and enjoyed the confidence of Messrs Murray and Varney in the years when things went right on and off the pitch.
For what you contributed in the past,that culminated in our return to the valley,yours is a opinion that I respect and always look forward to reading.Ignore certain people spouting off,as they are just trying to promote their own agenda.
To be fair, when this thread looked like it was going to get hijacked in point-scoring over past personal battles of which most of us know little and care even less, AFKA moved in very swiftly with a polite but firm post which simply said :' 'Lets not move away from the bigger picture please.''
[cite]Posted By: nigel w[/cite]To be fair, when this thread looked like it was going to get hijacked in point-scoring over past personal battles of which most of us know little and care even less, AFKA moved in very swiftly with a polite but firm post which simply said :' 'Lets not move away from the bigger picture please.''
Always good to hear from PragueAddick, IMO.
Not in mine. Some of his comments are just stiring. I find the constant slagging off of Derek Chappell unnecessary. I dont know what Derek has invested in the club but it may be the difference between us being in administration or not. The bigger picture is new investment but until then I will support the Directors who have supported this club when it needed it.
And I have absolutely no association with anybody. I am just an ordinary fan.
There will come a day when we will probably have new investors who are not fans. Personally I would rather stick we what we have but unfortunately the Board have I think run out of both money and energy. To me a faceless Investment club is not what I want for the football club I love.
If the board has "run out of both money and energy'', I'm not sure what it is you are ''supporting'', IMiss. Or indeed what form your ''support'' of ''Derek'' et al takes.
I don't support the board and I don't not support them. They are the board. I am a fan. They do what they do. I do what I do - which is support my team. I don't see why we have to support the board or not support the board or have any strong views on them at all.
Because to me , the ideal board should be invisible. You don't know or really care who they are, if they are running the club in a fit and proper way. A bit like AFKA's notion of 'let's go back to being ordinary fans' , I suppose. You just let the board get on wtih it and it's only when club goes tits up that you begin to even think about those running the club and how competent they are.
Do Chelsea fans ''support'' Abramovich? They like his money and they'd rather have him than Ken Bates, but that's dfferent. I don't suppose they actually spend much time thinking about the club's owner at all. Which in an ideal world, is surely how it should be?
Unfortunately, Charlton's world is far from ideal at present. We have a board that you say has run out of money and energy. So we need new investors and a new board. Then we can go back to not having to think about these matters and concentrate on supporting our team. Please!
[cite]Posted By: nigel w[/cite]Don't disagree with that in some ways, apart from your line that:
''My preference would be for Directors who are fans and who invest modest amounts.''
My own preference would be for directors who are fans and who invest large amounts!
That was Murrays constant theme at several meetings I attended well before Zabeel. If you know any wealthy Charlton Fans tell them to get in touch. I dont.
Who the feck would be a Charlton Director. I bloody wouldnt.
[cite]Posted By: northstandsteve[/cite]elaborate on their contributions Len I'm fascinated to know.
Richard Hunt was instrumental in the Valley Party election campaign by designing the extremely effective memorable posters which almost certainly attracted some of the 14,000 odd votes which succeeded in ousting two of the more obnoxious councillors blocking our return to The Valley.
Henry Irving was fans director and was more visible than any previous incumbent in my view with his regular newspaper articles and blogs.
Rothko as I understand it was the main driving force behind the flags and banners in the Covered End and presently sits on the fans' forum.
As I say in their own different ways they have contributed and are contributing. A moron like me can see and respect that so why can't they respect each other without petty sniping?
Is our finanacial prudence part of our undoing? Richard Murray has stated that we've spent £35m rebuilding the Valley with only £6m of mortgage outstanding (to be paid over the next five years I believe). Most companies try to match the life of the loan with the life of the asset (3 years for computers, 4 or 5 years for cars, 10 or 20 for buildings), so perhaps, while saving on interest charges, we have paid off our re-building a bit too quick at the expense of the team.
Without an improved Valley there was no way we could build a fan base to produce the turn over required to remain competitive at the highest levels (indeed further than we achieved) the result inevitably until our regular attendances are much higher in a bigger Valley is that we would always be going up and down. Hence gradual steady improvements to the ground alongside transfer budgets was the only course of action in my view. What Murray perhaps doesn't cover that well is the transfer policy which drifited towards too many highwaged journeymen and not enough upcoming talent from the lower leagues who could perhaps have been less of a 'gamble'.
Comments
Yet if we have an "outside" manager that person will appoint their own team. So bye bye Kins and no welcome home Chrissy Powell perhaps.
And then the accusations will be "they are not real Charlton, we want Charlton people who bled red and white".
I'm not saying that that is a good enough reason for keeping them or Parky just that sacking someone, anyone, has consquences and it not always the easiest decision to make.[/quote]
Perhaps Kins leaving before he becomes manager would be a good thing? Then he can get more full on managerial experience at a lower level elsewhere and come back and save us...?
even i thought he was OTT but curbishley performed miracles for us and i prefer to deal in facts and to those who think curbishley was involved in our demise 47 points(22points from the last 20 games) and the Fa cup quarter finals are the facts in his final season everything else is pure conjecture.... the king is dead long live the king
We will be a lower level :-(
Looking back at Curb's last season it's pretty interesting. (We won five our first six games - helluva start) but then won just 8 of the remaining 32 games.
We also couldn't manage an away win in the Premiership after October 22nd
In the FA Cup, the first other Premiership club we met, we got dumped out 4-2...
"Yes there is a Fans Forum. However, it exists as a 'replacement' for the recently abolished place on the Board for an elected Fans Director. Why was this abolished?"
Perhaps you could enlighten me, Rothko, as to how that is "banging on" (you mean 'criticising') about the Fans Forum, and why you'd expect me to clear this question with you before presenting it to the world at large as just one of many possible unexplained aspects of our demise.
As for Ben's gratuitously spiteful comment that I wanted the journo to speak to me, I've said many times that of course in Prague I'm out of it. The people who might have given Dominic Fifield some insights are those that served earlier on as Supporters Directors, those that worked tirelessly to create Valley Express and Target 10,000/40,000, and enjoyed the confidence of Messrs Murray and Varney in the years when things went right on and off the pitch.
How long does a good Manager need to turn a club around? I really dont know. Southampton,Notts For,Norwich,Watford and Derby have all changed managers yet its quite likely one of those will go down with us/maybe 2. All have had far better points returns than Parky I am sure but perhaps at Charlton a bigger turnaround was needed. I have seen signs of improvement but I will need to see wins and clean sheets before I am convinced.
Like others have said I am glad I dont have to make these decisions.
At the moment it is almost curiosity, wait until we struggle in the next division down , the critics will really have a go...........
For what you contributed in the past,that culminated in our return to the valley,yours is a opinion that I respect and always look forward to reading.Ignore certain people spouting off,as they are just trying to promote their own agenda.
Always good to hear from PragueAddick, IMO.
Not in mine. Some of his comments are just stiring. I find the constant slagging off of Derek Chappell unnecessary. I dont know what Derek has invested in the club but it may be the difference between us being in administration or not. The bigger picture is new investment but until then I will support the Directors who have supported this club when it needed it.
And I have absolutely no association with anybody. I am just an ordinary fan.
There will come a day when we will probably have new investors who are not fans. Personally I would rather stick we what we have but unfortunately the Board have I think run out of both money and energy. To me a faceless Investment club is not what I want for the football club I love.
Henry and Rothko have and are making contributions in their different ways.
I respect all their contributions it is a shame they cannot do the same.
I don't support the board and I don't not support them. They are the board. I am a fan. They do what they do. I do what I do - which is support my team. I don't see why we have to support the board or not support the board or have any strong views on them at all.
Because to me , the ideal board should be invisible. You don't know or really care who they are, if they are running the club in a fit and proper way. A bit like AFKA's notion of 'let's go back to being ordinary fans' , I suppose. You just let the board get on wtih it and it's only when club goes tits up that you begin to even think about those running the club and how competent they are.
Do Chelsea fans ''support'' Abramovich? They like his money and they'd rather have him than Ken Bates, but that's dfferent. I don't suppose they actually spend much time thinking about the club's owner at all. Which in an ideal world, is surely how it should be?
Unfortunately, Charlton's world is far from ideal at present. We have a board that you say has run out of money and energy. So we need new investors and a new board. Then we can go back to not having to think about these matters and concentrate on supporting our team. Please!
My preference would be for Directors who are fans and who invest modest amounts.
I dont want Abramovich or Zabeel and as a consequence I would gladly accept Tier 2 and 3 (maybe with occasional forays into Tiers 1 and 4)
I want a Board who hurts like us when we lose and celebrate when we win.
And I thought that was something that set us apart as a club from many others.
Money and success is not everything.
''My preference would be for Directors who are fans and who invest modest amounts.''
My own preference would be for directors who are fans and who invest large amounts!
Rothko points a lot whilst others carry the flag around and Henry gave us all a laugh with his cardy. That's a start isn't it?
That was Murrays constant theme at several meetings I attended well before Zabeel. If you know any wealthy Charlton Fans tell them to get in touch. I dont.
Who the feck would be a Charlton Director. I bloody wouldnt.
Richard Hunt was instrumental in the Valley Party election campaign by designing the extremely effective memorable posters which almost certainly attracted some of the 14,000 odd votes which succeeded in ousting two of the more obnoxious councillors blocking our return to The Valley.
Henry Irving was fans director and was more visible than any previous incumbent in my view with his regular newspaper articles and blogs.
Rothko as I understand it was the main driving force behind the flags and banners in the Covered End and presently sits on the fans' forum.
As I say in their own different ways they have contributed and are contributing. A moron like me can see and respect that so why can't they respect each other without petty sniping?
Who is contributing in a positive way now though? Its not 1992 is it.
The blog is instantly dismissive of the FF and I think thats not very constructive at the current time.