surprised at how many people from london mainly are so happy at are demise,makes me wonder if they were patronising us a tad when we were doing "well" .
[cite]Posted By: nigel w[/cite]Then when you've finished reading and the the article has had time to sink in, you start to get angry thinking about the various points at which the cycle of calamity could have been broken if a dfferent course had been followed...
See this is the point i'm at at the moment Nigel. We need to all try and make a conscious effort not to keep revisiting the past because there is zero we can do about it now, and all it does is spread feelings of anger, disappointment and reluctance.
We need to draw a line under this all this summer and come back a fresh beast, almost a new club, in August.
With that in mind, i am at present seriously reconsidering my stance that i'm prepared to give Parkinson a bit of time to rebuild.
.................................
This is precisely where I have been floundering. I haven't been able to look forward because I can't find anything to look forward to if you see what I mean. I just yo yo back and forth. I understand all the various arguments, I can see everyone elses point of view but I still can't find my own. Stuck in a groove an' all that. If I could be sure that we could find the 'right' manager, the 'right' coach etc., then it's a whole lot easier, but I'm painfully aware that I thought Pardew was the right manager when he came in.
The only thing I can see at the moment is that the thought of a completely fresh start will induce more supporters to renew. Maybe that's the most important thing?
[cite]Posted By: Shrew[/cite]Did any of us really want a european place or just slightly less boring football ?
A fewexpectedboth.
I wanted both, still do, but didn't see either as something we had a automatic right to expect.
Nail on head Henners. Every time I hear someone slag the fans off for having dreams it makes my blood boil. They are usually armchair followers of one of the Sky four or a lazy souless journo, mind you.
Article is the best and most sympathetic yet, but then it was from a proper newspaper. There must be one or two on here actually reading a Guardian article for the first time, and hating themselves for agreeing with it...
And the Journo involved is really sympathetic, understood exactly where I was coming from and wanted to reflect that. I spent about 20 minutes with him on the phone, and a lot of what was said has been reflected in the piece.
I think you are right. A new "name" manager would possibly get more people to renew.
My problem with that if are we only appointing them for their name and not their ability (I give you Bryan Robson) how soon will will be looking for another "name". Is a fifth manager in 4 years what we need?
If we, on the other hand, appoint a good coach with experience at this level but who has a small profile or name recognition not only is that not going to give us a sales boost on STs but will be yet more upheaval and could mean the end of not just Parkinson but Kinsella and Chapple.
Not an easy choice and one I'm glad I don't have to make.
This has made me more sure i want parky (and kins and chappel) there next season. We need the stability and I think Parky will get it right given time and the chance to re-build.
A view from the far side.
.............................
comment by NickGraySE7 (U13758084)
posted 31 Minutes Ago
eltham and coldcurry
I totally agree, and particularly liked the salient comments from RHPrague. No surprise then that he has been swiftly slaughtered, by Muzza's mates on CharltonLife. Apparently you cannot be a real Charlton fan if you live in Prague and your name is not Ben.
The Evening Standard piece is equally revealing in its own way. It could be titled "Not Me, Guv".
Muzza basically claims that it is now pointless looking backwards [again, identical to the CharltonLife view], and then blames Pardew, ambitious fans, Curbs and Zabeel amongst others, whist again playing the tired old 'we are fans, too' card.
The fans have seen through that one, Muzza.
Does Muzza realise that he forfeits the right to be taken seriously every time he claims- as he does once again here- that Parkinson has achieved 'real improvements' ?
LOL really made my day that has. Ha ha, Nick Gray thanks for cheering me up Nick, you should go on telly
Hates Charlton Life so much but he reads and references it every day.
And I think he maybe turning into my very own stalker. Should I be worried about someone so obviously unstable being obsessed with me?
Oh well there's only one thing worse that being talked about....
A real compliment to Charlton Life that even those who pretend to despise it read it avidly and just wish to themselves that they had the courage to sign up and post.
My problem with that if are we only appointing them for their name and not their ability (I give you Bryan Robson) how soon will will be looking for another "name". Is a fifth manager in 4 years what we need?
I know it's just an example, but is there anyone here that would actually want Bryan Robson (or similar) as our manager?
My problem with that if are we only appointing them for their name and not their ability (I give you Bryan Robson) how soon will will be looking for another "name". Is a fifth manager in 4 years what we need?
I know it's just an example, but is there anyone here that would actually want Bryan Robson (or similar) as our manager?
No me, obviously.
Ince maybe as he does have a track record in Div 3.
[cite]Posted By: stilladdicted[/cite]Does Muzza realise that he forfeits the right to be taken seriously every time he claims- as he does once again here- that Parkinson has achieved 'real improvements' ?
I think you are right. A new "name" manager would possibly get more people to renew.
My problem with that if are we only appointing them for their name and not their ability (I give you Bryan Robson) how soon will will be looking for another "name". Is a fifth manager in 4 years what we need?
If we, on the other hand, appoint a good coach with experience at this level but who has a small profile or name recognition not only is that not going to give us a sales boost on STs but will be yet more upheaval and could mean the end of not just Parkinson but Kinsella and Chapple.
Not an easy choice and one I'm glad I don't have to make.
all good points. However, we don't necessarily need a name and defo not that one. As long as we appoint someone that the fans can see has the required pedigree and experience to get us out of League 1 and that the Club sell that properly then I think most fans would go for that ie O'Driscoll. Okay it won't boost season ticket sales in terms of new holders but I reckon it'll encourage a lot to see that we are determined to go in the right direction with the right man at the helm, someone who has done it before. (I know Parky has but he is tainted by this season and fans are fed up and want change). If a new man wants Kins and Chapple out then so be it. A new start is needed. This is where imo we have gone wrong. Foisting Robbo on Dowie, appointing Reed, appointing Parky, promoting Kins and Chapple. I've always wondered if this promoting from within works. Isn't there a danger these people are part of the problem. Same as when Steve Dixon was promoted to run the Shop for example. All nice blokes, all Charlton people, all love the Club BUT are they the best available for the job.
"Isn't there a danger these people are part of the problem."
This for me is a very valid point and the problem is that I, and I suspect most others, don't really know what the real problems were and/or are. How would we know? My concern remains that the board don't seem to know either. Most other professions have their inspectors, advisors, crisis experts or Gordon Ramsays, isn't there an equivalent for football somewhere? Does the process have to be so hit and miss?
AFKA made a point some months ago about not wanting to see one of his heroes, Kinsella, made boss as hearing him being slagged off or seeing him sacked would be heart breaking or words to that affect.
Yet if we have an "outside" manager that person will appoint their own team. So bye bye Kins and no welcome home Chrissy Powell perhaps.
And then the accusations will be "they are not real Charlton, we want Charlton people who bled red and white".
I'm not saying that that is a good enough reason for keeping them or Parky just that sacking someone, anyone, has consquences and it not always the easiest decision to make.
Parkinson and the players have got us relegated not anyone else that went before. Many managers could have picked up from when pardew left us and not find themselves where we are now. Parkinsons record has been abysmal and has proved that he is not capable of motivating the players well enough or more than likely having the tactics or strategy to win games. Cant see how sticking with him will change this when he will have more or the less the same players in the squad next season....probably minus the best ones in terms of ability.
I dont understand the whole "charlton through and through" argument much either. 99% of us are charlton through and through but doesnt mean we would be successful in managing the team so i dont necessarily think keeping kinsella as manager is the answer in the same way parkinsons move from deputy to sheriff was ill- fated. Curbs (west ham through and through as we were so often reminded), Wenger, Ferguson etc...non of them had any real "cut me and i bleed the club" when they took up the posts but didnt hinder their success.
The problem I see with Parkinson staying is that unless we go and win four or five of our last eight games (which even Oggy Red surely can't really expect) then next season will begin with at least 50% of our support expecting and/or wanting him to fail, which is hardly the basis for a promotion campaign.
[cite]Posted By: BlackForestReds[/cite]Is Nick Gray the alter-ego of Henry?
Have they ever been seen in the same stadium together?
On the subject of alter egos - has OohAhhMortimer found a soulmate in "Fran1974" who commented on the Guardian article, or are they in fact one and the same person?
One might also consider that the problem Parkinson had to solve with the resources available may have been insurmountable. He did seem to be at the start of an upward curve, however it does seem to have levelled somewhat.
Comments
This is precisely where I have been floundering. I haven't been able to look forward because I can't find anything to look forward to if you see what I mean. I just yo yo back and forth. I understand all the various arguments, I can see everyone elses point of view but I still can't find my own. Stuck in a groove an' all that. If I could be sure that we could find the 'right' manager, the 'right' coach etc., then it's a whole lot easier, but I'm painfully aware that I thought Pardew was the right manager when he came in.
The only thing I can see at the moment is that the thought of a completely fresh start will induce more supporters to renew. Maybe that's the most important thing?
Nail on head Henners. Every time I hear someone slag the fans off for having dreams it makes my blood boil. They are usually armchair followers of one of the Sky four or a lazy souless journo, mind you.
Article is the best and most sympathetic yet, but then it was from a proper newspaper. There must be one or two on here actually reading a Guardian article for the first time, and hating themselves for agreeing with it...
I think you are right. A new "name" manager would possibly get more people to renew.
My problem with that if are we only appointing them for their name and not their ability (I give you Bryan Robson) how soon will will be looking for another "name". Is a fifth manager in 4 years what we need?
If we, on the other hand, appoint a good coach with experience at this level but who has a small profile or name recognition not only is that not going to give us a sales boost on STs but will be yet more upheaval and could mean the end of not just Parkinson but Kinsella and Chapple.
Not an easy choice and one I'm glad I don't have to make.
Seem to remember winning 9 in a row without conceeding a goal, then a 0 - 0 and then two more wins before a 4 - 4 draw.
Can't remember which year.
Free yourself from mental slavery
Only ourselves can free our minds
.............................
comment by NickGraySE7 (U13758084)
posted 31 Minutes Ago
eltham and coldcurry
I totally agree, and particularly liked the salient comments from RHPrague. No surprise then that he has been swiftly slaughtered, by Muzza's mates on CharltonLife. Apparently you cannot be a real Charlton fan if you live in Prague and your name is not Ben.
The Evening Standard piece is equally revealing in its own way. It could be titled "Not Me, Guv".
Muzza basically claims that it is now pointless looking backwards [again, identical to the CharltonLife view], and then blames Pardew, ambitious fans, Curbs and Zabeel amongst others, whist again playing the tired old 'we are fans, too' card.
The fans have seen through that one, Muzza.
Does Muzza realise that he forfeits the right to be taken seriously every time he claims- as he does once again here- that Parkinson has achieved 'real improvements' ?
Hates Charlton Life so much but he reads and references it every day.
And I think he maybe turning into my very own stalker. Should I be worried about someone so obviously unstable being obsessed with me?
Oh well there's only one thing worse that being talked about....
A real compliment to Charlton Life that even those who pretend to despise it read it avidly and just wish to themselves that they had the courage to sign up and post.
Have they ever been seen in the same stadium together?
I know it's just an example, but is there anyone here that would actually want Bryan Robson (or similar) as our manager?
I've never been so insulted in all my life ; - )
No me, obviously.
Ince maybe as he does have a track record in Div 3.
think he has a point here though.
I think you are right. A new "name" manager would possibly get more people to renew.
My problem with that if are we only appointing them for their name and not their ability (I give you Bryan Robson) how soon will will be looking for another "name". Is a fifth manager in 4 years what we need?
If we, on the other hand, appoint a good coach with experience at this level but who has a small profile or name recognition not only is that not going to give us a sales boost on STs but will be yet more upheaval and could mean the end of not just Parkinson but Kinsella and Chapple.
Not an easy choice and one I'm glad I don't have to make.
all good points. However, we don't necessarily need a name and defo not that one. As long as we appoint someone that the fans can see has the required pedigree and experience to get us out of League 1 and that the Club sell that properly then I think most fans would go for that ie O'Driscoll. Okay it won't boost season ticket sales in terms of new holders but I reckon it'll encourage a lot to see that we are determined to go in the right direction with the right man at the helm, someone who has done it before. (I know Parky has but he is tainted by this season and fans are fed up and want change). If a new man wants Kins and Chapple out then so be it. A new start is needed. This is where imo we have gone wrong. Foisting Robbo on Dowie, appointing Reed, appointing Parky, promoting Kins and Chapple. I've always wondered if this promoting from within works. Isn't there a danger these people are part of the problem. Same as when Steve Dixon was promoted to run the Shop for example. All nice blokes, all Charlton people, all love the Club BUT are they the best available for the job.
BUT
Danny Murphy..................go away, you have no idea...............do you really think he thought that all by himself?
man's an idiot & should not be approached to comment on a Club he didn't feel was fashionable enough for him!
This for me is a very valid point and the problem is that I, and I suspect most others, don't really know what the real problems were and/or are. How would we know? My concern remains that the board don't seem to know either. Most other professions have their inspectors, advisors, crisis experts or Gordon Ramsays, isn't there an equivalent for football somewhere? Does the process have to be so hit and miss?
I'm sure that's not true, Henry ...
(light-hearted and entirely well-meaning jest, which I trust H will appreciate!)
Yet if we have an "outside" manager that person will appoint their own team. So bye bye Kins and no welcome home Chrissy Powell perhaps.
And then the accusations will be "they are not real Charlton, we want Charlton people who bled red and white".
I'm not saying that that is a good enough reason for keeping them or Parky just that sacking someone, anyone, has consquences and it not always the easiest decision to make.
I dont understand the whole "charlton through and through" argument much either. 99% of us are charlton through and through but doesnt mean we would be successful in managing the team so i dont necessarily think keeping kinsella as manager is the answer in the same way parkinsons move from deputy to sheriff was ill- fated. Curbs (west ham through and through as we were so often reminded), Wenger, Ferguson etc...non of them had any real "cut me and i bleed the club" when they took up the posts but didnt hinder their success.
Especially from a Palace fan!