Charlton have had a disaster of a season; a car-crash, played out over nine months. Big debts; big losses; a squad full of other club's players. But Charlton own their stadium (the biggest in South London); own their training ground; have the biggest attendances in South London; and have a youth team and reserve squad full of promising prospects.
Crystal Palace have (almost certainly) secured tier-two football for next season. But their ground is a disgrace and not even theirs; their venerable manager is nearing retirement; the club is up for sale and hasn't attracted a sniff.
Who's in better shape?
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No shame in admitting. They will be a league higher than us next year, and that's pretty much the end of it.
Long-term however, it may well be us. But we shall have to wait and see.
As a matter of interest, does anyone have any info on the amount of season tickets sold for next season so far.
Honest question, not looking for point scoring, I've no idea what Palaces position is, but I'd guess it's similar to this seasons.
Even if it's not 20k bums, it's still a hell of a lot more than you'll ever have so not quite sure what your point is?
I think thats very optimistic, if you think you'll still be getting 'a hell of a lot more' than Palace, and if you do then I salute a very loyal support.
palace have integrated more youth into their first team and appear to be in a better footballing position than us where youth players are concerned and any players come to think of it!
I look forward to still having higher attendances than you next season in a lower division.
tell me why it is so good then oh wise one...
maybe our league position is the give away to me
take jonjo out of the equation and there isn't any championship quality youth players left imo and there haven't been any for a few years now and as someone who has invested in valley gold since the beginning i take a key interest in what comes through our ranks...
If you do, it will take very good marketing.
Maybe something along the lines of free season tickets, the following year if you go straight back up.
I think you will have as much difficulty as us in keeping your decent players and with our own ground, training ground and proximity to the Thames Gateway we are the better long term prospect.
Yes your average home attendances may (for once!) exceed ours next season.
On average a Prem/Champinship squad has about 30 players. Of these about two thirds will have either come from abroad or from the lower divisions. Therefore at any time any Prem/Champ youth system should have 10 graduates playing in squads in the Prem or Championship. Less than 10 and the youth system is doing poorly 10 to 15 the system is doing well, more than 15 and the system is doing very well/Excellent.
Off the top of my head the Charlton graduates in squads at the moment are
Defenders
Konch
Fortune
Turner
Shittu
Bassey
Primus
Samual
Midfield
Parker
Bowyer
Cambell-Rice
Sam
Shelvey
Wright
Wagstaff
Forwards
Defoe
Lisbie
Goalkeepers
Brown
Elliot
Randolf
Thats 19 I can think of, there may be more.
With the influx of forign players into our leagues to have 19 ex Charlton youth still plying there trade in the top 2 divisions is an exceptional achievment. There will probably be 5 or 6 other youth systems who can match that but no more.
Goalkeepers
Paul Smith (Forest)
Defenders
Simon Ford (Kilmarnock)
Osei Sankofa (Southend)
Barry Fuller (Gillingham)
Nathan Ashton (Wycombe)
Midfielders
Kemi Izzet (Colchester)
Myles Weston (Notts Co)
Strikers
Charlie MacDonald (Brentford)
James Walker (Southend)
Danny Haynes (Ipswich)
George Boyd (Peterborough)
I know they aren't all Championship players, but some of them potentially are with a lot more experience, much like Shittu and Turner.
Add to that a few in the Conference like Stacy Long and Onome Sodje, who might get back in the Football League like Barry Fuller, there's more players throughout the Prem down to League Two from our youth system than the obvious ones.
We've had to use the youth players more over the last 2 seasons in this league, and we'll have to carry on in League One. If he stays we'll see more of Josh Wright, and Solly will eventually get his chance.
Players like Mambo will benefit from us being in League One rather than the Prem. Shittu, Turner and Campbell-Ryce would have all broken through if they we were a Championship or League One club at the time.
Well I think others above have answered your question better than I could have. However, my point was that you wouldn't see our youth setup as any good even if we had graduated Kaka and Messi.
from memory
Bostock
Moses
erm
erm
struggling now name some more
Clyne
Scannell
Hills
Dijali
To some extent I'd agree, Palace's future is definately unclear at the moment.
Jordan wants out, and there are rumours starting to appear, that he has found a buyer, once that becomes certain, and we find out who it is, we can then start to get a clearer picture of the future.
Konch .... according to wiki he came thru west ham's set up b4 joining our youth lot late
Fortune.... charlton thru and thru
Turner.... came through ours but we didn't rate him and he had to leave to improve
Shittu... did he represent our first team and did we receive any fee , he had to leave to improve
Bassey... what league will he be playing in next year and imo not good enough for tier 2
Primus... another one who didn't improve till he left
Samual..... yep slipped through our net unfortunatley
Midfield
Parker..... a major success
Bowyer..... a major success
Cambell-Rice..... had to leave and has improved a lot since leaving but a second tier player
Sam...... see basey
Shelvey..... a succcess but wont be with us next year
Wright.... see basey
Wagstaff.... see basey
Forwards
Defoe..... success but we wuz robbed
Lisbie......tier two
Goalkeepers
Brown....not sure who he iis did he ever play for the first team, did we receive a transfer fee or not rate him
Elliot.... see basey
Randolf.... see basey...
what i'm really saying is at a time when we needed to have a crop of youngsters good enough to come in and do the business i don't think they have been here for us and our current plight has more to do with bad management than the youth set up but the quality of player coming thru clearly can't be good enough cos we are where we are and only jonjo out of any one u-21 at the club imo will ply their next ten years of football in the top two tiers
lol
"Erse"
None. They haven't been announced yet.
No, i don't believe there are 20k bums on seat at every game. At our lowest, one actual ttendance dipped below 14k for a midweek game.
I also understand that the 'actual attendance' for you recent game with Birmingham was 8,400.
The season ticket plus roll up sales is a meaningless figure in my mind purely there for accountants.
We're in a very bad position, lets deal with that rather than worry if Palace are in an even worse one.
I've no idea what the official attendances for Palace are, but I must admit I'd be shocked the Brum attendance was that low, I was there and while I admit it was poor, I'd have thought it was higher than that, however the weather was disgusting that night, and the lure of Champions League on telly convinced many to stay in. I know I wished I had missed it.
If your attendances are holding up that well though, it shouldn't impact too much for you next year.