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What's Shelvey done wrong?

edited March 2009 in General Charlton
Parky must have read that post by the guy who didn't rate Jonjo because since it was posted (and removed) we haven't seen the young man. Is he injured? In the Sin Bin? Out of favour? Being rested because he's young and still growing? Being protected so that we can get a better price for him? I can't imagine it's a ploy to make him love the club more. And if it's not because he's injured, I can't imagine that it will make him want to hang around.
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Comments

  • Same goes for Dicko - My guess they are both getting some well needed rest...
  • I assumed he had been rested on Sat because he's only just 17 and leaving him out of the middle game in a sequence of three matches in eight days made sense.

    But you are right, Nadou. Tonight's omission shows that is not the reason and it's puzzling. Has Parky decided there is no room for ZZ and JonJo in the same squad - or is it just coincidence that the return of one has synchronised with the absence of the other?
  • Well everyone seems certain that ZZ will be leaving us at the end of the season so it's an odd decision to not be blooding Jonjo with at least every other game. I knw who I'd rather watch.
  • [cite]Posted By: nigel w[/cite]I assumed he had been rested on Sat because he's only just 17 and leaving him out of the middle game in a sequence of three matches in eight days made sense.

    But you are right, Nadou. Tonight's omission shows that is not the reason and it's puzzling. Has Parky decided there is no room for ZZ and JonJo in the same squad - or is it just coincidence that the return of one has synchronised with the absence of the other?

    He played poorly against Doncaster and consequently was rested for the next home match and with ZZ coming back from injury back Parky opted for his greater experience on the bench against Watford. On that I recall the conspiracy theorists saying that ZZ was never going to play for the club again/was faking an injury etc etc.

    As to why he didn't feature tonight, again perhaps Parky preferred to go with experience rather than youth in what promised to be a tough away match agaist a promotion chasing team. It isn't that we are lacking in central midfielders, or even good quality central midfielders.

    It's also possible that Parky is picking and choosing the matches for him, so he doesn't burn out with a succession of injuries, he's only 17 and experience shows that over-playing kids at that age leads to them missing too many games.
  • So at least put him on the bench, BFR.

    He has one bad game v Doncaster and gets banished from the 16? That seems exceptionally harsh on a young talent.

    I don't think anyone wants or expects him to play every game. But he's not going to learn anything or improve by being left out of the squad completely.
  • there will be only one result in this and it's not rocket science to work it out
  • he is only 17 and has obviously got loads to learn. he is a bit light weight at the moment for central mid and if he plays has to be in the hole but everyone wants two strikers.

    It is next season we want him ready for with all the other youngsters
  • We are going down. Unless ZZ has said he is going to stay there is NO point in him playing. Give Jonjo games to gain experience and to get his body used to the challenge of regular first team football. Give Josh Wright a few games too. Unless Soares is staying drop him, he's playing badly anyway, and give Sam or Wagstaff a run. We need Ward so ok. Unless Kandol is gonna stay then give Dicko the games to improve and get used to the rigours of regular 1st team football. Bring Fleets on from the bench. We need to attack next seasonbs campaign already. Send Butternut back as soon as is possible and either play Moots or blood Solly. And while you are at it Parky we are down so play two up front and try to get our strikers to form a partnership for next season. If we lose so what, we are losing anyway.
  • No point in overstretching Jonjo, we are going down, and no point risking him, we will be coming up against Promotion chasing and relegation threatened teams for the rest of the season, it will get tough out there, would rather use him sparingly, then build him over the pre season friendlies to get him raring to go in August.
  • [cite]Posted By: DA9[/cite]No point in overstretching Jonjo, we are going down, and no point risking him, we will be coming up against Promotion chasing and relegation threatened teams for the rest of the season, it will get tough out there, would rather use him sparingly, then build him over the pre season friendlies to get him raring to go in August.

    My thoughts exactly.
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  • [cite]Posted By: DA9[/cite]No point in overstretching Jonjo, we are going down, and no point risking him, we will be coming up against Promotion chasing and relegation threatened teams for the rest of the season, it will get tough out there, would rather use him sparingly, then build him over the pre season friendlies to get him raring to go in August.

    pre-season friendlies are NO subsitute for the real thing. Playing Welling and Dulwich Hamlet ain't gonna help other than with fitness. Ok, rest him occasionally but he should have at least been on the bench. At the moment the tougher it is out there the better imo as we need him to toughen up and quickly. Unless of course we have aleady done a deal and are protecting him.
  • [cite]Posted By: cfgs[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: DA9[/cite]No point in overstretching Jonjo, we are going down, and no point risking him, we will be coming up against Promotion chasing and relegation threatened teams for the rest of the season, it will get tough out there, would rather use him sparingly, then build him over the pre season friendlies to get him raring to go in August.

    My thoughts exactly.

    Mine too! It's not like Moyes played Rooney every game or every other game when he was the next big thing!
  • No, we should over play him, heap lots of pressure on his shoulders and when he breaks down and misses most of next season and doesn't fulfil his potential then we can then blame Parky for overplaying him in a losing cause.

    Cast your minds back a decade or so when Parker was coming through the ranks - the temptation was to overplay him, more so as we didn't have a strong squad. Bringing Parker on gradually worked perfectly and we developed one of the best players the club has ever had. I trust the club's judgement in the way they are handling Jonjo and that is probably one of the reasons why he chose to sign full time with us and not one of the premiership clubs chasing his signature.
  • [cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite]
    [cite]Posted By: DA9[/cite]No point in overstretching Jonjo, we are going down, and no point risking him, we will be coming up against Promotion chasing and relegation threatened teams for the rest of the season, it will get tough out there, would rather use him sparingly, then build him over the pre season friendlies to get him raring to go in August.

    pre-season friendlies are NO subsitute for the real thing. Playing Welling and Dulwich Hamlet ain't gonna help other than with fitness. Ok, rest him occasionally but he should have at least been on the bench. At the moment the tougher it is out there the better imo as we need him to toughen up and quickly. Unless of course we have aleady done a deal and are protecting him.

    The bench at best for me, use him sparingly, he is our biggest asset currently, some mad fecker lunges at him and wrecks him for 12 months, how would we all feel then?
  • edited March 2009
    The bench at best for me, use him sparingly, he is our biggest asset currently, some mad fecker lunges at him and wrecks him for 12 months, how would we all feel then?[/quote]


    I see your point but i do think we should be giving him more experience as he's still only played a handful of games. Not saying he should start week in week out but we should at least be giving him 10-15 minutes here and there. What is the point in us playing the likes of Soares and ZZ who won't be here next season? Plus there's nothing to say he won't get an injury in a pre-season game or even in training.
  • ZZ hasn't done anything wrong and deserves a few games to get back to fitness (unless you believe the wild conspiracy theories that he's faking an injury/gone on strike etc), plus we are still paying his wages. Also, it may be all over bar the shouting but we aren't down yet, so for the time being we should carry on playing our strongest side. Once we are mathematically down then there are still a few games left to blood the younger players and bear in mind that while our fate is (almost) sealed there are a lot of clubs still playing to avoid relegation/aiming for the playoffs and direct promotion. Those teams might just be tempted to kick our kids off the park, and that won't do them much good.
  • Why can't we have ZZ and Shelvey in the squad and that waste of space Spring carrying the water bottles?
  • What Chris said. They talk a lot of common sense in Sidcup, IMO !
  • [cite]Posted By: kinveachyaddick[/cite] Spring carrying the water bottles?

    lol
  • DA9DA9
    edited March 2009
    [cite]Posted By: Chris_from_Sidcup[/cite]I see your point but i do think we should be giving him more experience as he's still only played a handful of games. Not saying he should start week in week out but we should at least be giving him 10-15 minutes here and there. What is the point in us playing the likes of Soares and ZZ who won't be here next season? Plus there's nothing to say he won't get an injury in a pre-season game or even in training.

    You've just backed up my point, bench at best, 10-15-20 minutes here & there.

    Most pre season games will be nowhere near as physical or tough as some of the games we have left this season, yes, there is always the outside chance of a nasty or freak accident, but the risk is far far less, due to the nature of the games themselves.
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  • Next season without parachute money we will have a drastically smaller squad and Jonjo will get a lot of playing time through necessity. He has been given a few matches and come off the bench occasionally, but I'd rather he was brought on properly so as next year he can make a real impact when we need it.
  • I fear he won't be here next season anyway. Call me pessimistic but I see a Spurs coming in for him and us taking the money :-(
  • Who knows...the word is he's happy to stay at Charlton and progress his career that way and I don't think the club will sell unless they are offered stupid money, and I can't see that happening for a player who doesn't want to move.

    Although we lose the parachute money we have a number of players whose contracts expire this season and with several of the higher earners off the books maybe the financial situation won't be as dire as we expect.
  • It should be fairly simple.

    JonJo is now a professional footballer, albeit a young one. If he's currently among the best 11 players at the club, he should be playing fairly regularly, with obvious safeguards and checks concerning his strength and development etc.

    If he's not amomg the best XI but is among the best 16, he should be on the bench.

    If he's not currently among the best 16 players at the club, then he shouldn't be in the squad. As he hasn't been since he had a bad game v Doncaster.

    Personally, I think he's good enough to start fairly often - and when he doesn't play, should be on the bench. I rather think that would be his preference , too.

    It clearly isn't the view of Phil Parkinson, who at present prefers the likes of Spring, Soares and Ambrose.
  • I think Parky is in a no win situation with the fans regarding his handling of Jonjo.

    Not only does he have to consider the physical development of a boy of barely 17 but there is also the mental side.

    Three games in 7 days is mentally as well as physically exhausting for an honest lad like Jonjo who only knows one way of playing which is to give 100% at all times. Confidence is also an integral part of being a successful professional and Parky wants to guard against flak from say the Doncaster game destroying that confidence. Hence the reason he is in and out.

    Curbs, arguably our greatest manager of all time, handled Parker and Konchesky carefully selecting matches and then dropping them and in Parker's case sending him out on loan.

    However from a fans viewpoint it is easy to look at, say, Spring's contribution (or lack thereof) against Watford and question why Jonjo wasn't in the squad.

    Rather like being a married man Parky will always be in the wrong!
  • Its not just the case of playing Shelvey, more the case of not playing the loanees who aren't going to be here next season, like Soares & Butterfield.

    Also spring is a waste of space and gave the ball away last night that lead to their 2nd goal A midfield of Bailey, Racon & Shelvey looks tasty to me.
  • Was Bailey playing on the left of midfield again last night?

    If so, why?

    He is a right-footed centre-midfielder. Why is he being played out on the left to accommodate the lightweight and ineffective Spring?
  • dunno but wright or jonjo can play left wing if needed there!
  • Not playing Shelvey must make him think that he could equally well be not playing at a bigger club and for a bigger wage, surrounded by high profile players who could teach him a lot.
  • [cite]Posted By: kinveachyaddick[/cite]Was Bailey playing on the left of midfield again last night?

    If so, why?

    He is a right-footed centre-midfielder. Why is he being played out on the left to accommodate the lightweight and ineffective Spring?
    He's not. He's being played out on the left to protect Youga.
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