When talking about season ticket prices you should remember that the average match day ticket prices in div1 and 2 are £20-£22, so with 23 home games that works out at £460-£506 for the season. That leaves little chance of a reduction in season ticket prices, but I haved argued that the first round of the J.P.T,the Carling cup, and F.A. cup be included in the season ticket next season. They may even get bigger crowds than now if rhat is done.
Not sure what the average away attendances are in the JPT but doubt we'd knock our pipe out by giving free tickets to away fans. In fact, that isn't a bad shout as they'd spend money on programmes, grub etc. Actually what am I talking about! Can't believe I'm discussing our impending cup ties in the JPT!
[cite]Posted By: AFKABartram[/cite]Another option would be to include a free replica shirt in the purchase of a season ticket.
Price impact would be around £20 per person, but acts as an incentive and provides guaranteed advertising for Charlton and its sponsor to a wide area, particularly local areas where a strong 'presence' is going to be vital as a lower league club.
But I don't wear replica shirts and from looking around the ground a large number of other people don't either
I really think this has alot to do with us being lumbered with Joma.
As shallow as this may sound, I would be prepared to wager a substantial sum that sales of our replica kit, training shirts etc etc would go up if we took one of the major players i.e Nike or Adidas.
Kids especially will want one simply because it is Nike and or Adidas.
No idea as to the economics of these deals but in the current climate I'm sure most firms would want new business.
Historically we seem to sign up with the lesser and in the case of Joma virtually unknown companies.
As for ST prices, I'd be very disappointed if we don't see a £50.00 - £60.00 reduction in adult prices. Incentives are all very well but in these hard times hard cash savings talk.
If I were running the show I'd certainly be advocating a reduction in prices, I think a genuine reduction would result in our sales holding up reasonably well.
Or a different approach could be adopting the practices of other businesses? Buy 2 adult season tickets and get a child free, by 3 adult season tickets and get a 4th free. Might be pie in the sky, but there must be enough groups of 4,5,6 to make it worthwhile. People who are considering opting out for financial reasons may well be swayed by splitting the cost 4 ways rather than 3.
I'd also be looking to hand out the maximum amount of freebies to schools, community groups etc next year. Not only will the ground seem fuller but for every 150 kids that enter the ground I'm sure 50% of them will want a burger, programme etc etc. Might not seem like much but when you are skint every little helps. Even if we retain 10% of each group as paying customers its still worth it.
Lots of good ideas and some I know have already been discussed. There are good reasons why Joma is better financially for CAFC than Nike or Adidas though I take your point that more kids might buy training gear with a higher profile name. However the margins on those big names are nowhere near as good as with the likes of Joma.
This is something the Fans Forum could be asking about and getting clarified. Do you know any of the Fans Forum reps Clem?
I may have bumped into Rothko once or twice! ;-)
With regard to margins etc, I didn't doubt for one minute that there would have been a financial reason for taking these lesser firms. I just wonder, in the current financial climate, whether increased revenue in other replica areas such as training kit etc would offset the loss in relation to actual shirts - I really can't believe that we sell much training kit. Ours really is not very nice at all.
Out of interest do you know whether the margins are adjusted according to projected sales figures?
I do know that the deals the likes of Man Utd and Chelsea get from Nike and Adidas are with a different part of the companies from those lower division sides get with smaller margins and minimum purchase numbers. Not very advantageous to us.
Just about any club can get Nike or Addidas if they want (see a park game on a Sunday) but it doesn't mean that they are getting a good deal.
Anyway if you know Rothko why not get him to ask Mike Rea for the next Fans Forum meeting about this so Mike can set it all out for fans to see.
And shouldn't the fans forum be feeding back some of these ideas to the Target 40k committee to consider or at least to respond to.
They had the meeting over the statement of intent, got some answers so now time to get involved in some nitty gritty issues IMHO
Good to see that we are thinking of different ways of keeping the revenue base as high as possible.
Firstly I think the season ticket prices have got to be reduced. League 1 and the current state of the economy determine that. But of course the issue is to maximise match day revenue. The accounts for 2008 have matchday revenue as £8.493m (£10.806m 2007). I would think we are going to struggle to get anywhere near that.
I would suggest some in ground freebies as part of the season ticket package which may include vouchers for/towards free hospitality meal or free beer/burger. Something that actually all/most season ticket holders can take advantage of, or can chose what suits them. Clearly it cant be done below cost price but even with a free meal you are likely to spend on drink (or vice versa).
Or alternatively perhaps one free ticket for an away match of your choosing (subject to obvious limits). That would please oohahh.
An interesting thread this. I guess ST revenues are going to be vital to the club next season and the money and they will need to pull out all the stops to keep numbers up.
I think a sliding scale depending on how early you renew would be an option. An option for frozen prices if we subsequently go up will help alongside that.
Keep prices the same but:
Renew in May you get 15% discount and same price next season
Renew in June you get 10% discount and same price next season
and so on up till august when you get the price freeze for the following season.
the sliding scale thing doesn't really have much benefit to the club this year though as with interest rates at nearly zero, there is no additional benefit of them getting in a slightly smaller amount a bit in advance.
What about a complimentary match or two for season ticket holders to the "posh facilities" like Crossbars etc throughout the ground?
The great unwashed like myself would be overawed by such grandiose surroundings and would contribute to costs by buying drinks, food etc always assuming we know what knives, forks, plates and glasses are!
You never know having tried the facilities some might even be prepared to fork out on membership to avoid queueing for a half time drink....
[cite]Posted By: AFKABartram[/cite]the sliding scale thing doesn't really have much benefit to the club this year though as with interest rates at nearly zero, there is no additional benefit of them getting in a slightly smaller amount a bit in advance.
Not sure thats changed as it would be cash flow rather than interest earnings that they encouraged early payers.
[cite]Posted By: LenGlover[/cite]What about a complimentary match or two for season ticket holders to the "posh facilities" like Crossbars etc throughout the ground?
The great unwashed like myself would be overawed by such grandiose surroundings and would contribute to costs by buying drinks, food etc always assuming we know what knives, forks, plates and glasses are!
You never know having tried the facilities some might even be prepared to fork out on membership to avoid queueing for a half time drink....
[cite]Posted By: LenGlover[/cite]What about a complimentary match or two for season ticket holders to the "posh facilities" like Crossbars etc throughout the ground?
The great unwashed like myself would be overawed by such grandiose surroundings and would contribute to costs by buying drinks, food etc always assuming we know what knives, forks, plates and glasses are!
You never know having tried the facilities some might even be prepared to fork out on membership to avoid queueing for a half time drink....
Stick to the Chippy Len, more your style ; - )
I thought you socialists believed in equality for all not just cardigan wearers:-)
[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]Not a socialists, more of a social democrat (small s small d) so you are free to try to posh life but I think the Chippy is better. and Cheaper.
Joking apart that chippy is excellent value, certainly compared to my local one.
Do you think the idea of complimentary access to the posh bits for season ticket holders might work?
I've thought about Crossbars but firstly would they let the daughter in and secondly £100 or whatever it is is a lot to pay if you don't like the atmosphere in there which is something you won't know until you've tried it.
They were in the 3rd tier (following relegation brought about by financial irregularities)
They made it free access and played to massive crowds which made it a fortress and they are now back in the top flight.
Not saying we should go for free - but aren't Bradford doing a season ticket for £99 or something?
Surely the most important thing is getting bums on seats for the atmosphere and then making money from the extortionately expensive food and drinks and programme sales etc?
[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]Not a socialists, more of a social democrat (small s small d) so you are free to try to posh life but I think the Chippy is better. and Cheaper.
Joking apart that chippy is excellent value, certainly compared to my local one.
Do you think the idea of complimentary access to the posh bits for season ticket holders might work?
I've thought about Crossbars but firstly would they let the daughter in and secondly £100 or whatever it is is a lot to pay if you don't like the atmosphere in there which is something you won't know until you've tried it.
Again I think it might be an incentive to some and not others. Some would have no interest in a lounge and others none in a replica shirt.
There is also a danger of de-valuing the product if you give it away free and managing 15k (or however many) free vouchers could be a problem. Are there actually enough sittings to cope.
13,000 STs divided by 23 games equals 565 freebies a game. Don't know if they do that many paid sittings.
And it is a good chippy. My mum and dads local so have got a fish supper from there a few times. Bit of a rough crowd in their sometimes and I love the Liverpool style offy next door : - )
I think STs will have to come down to maintain any sort of support base, not just because of the league level but the recession/crunch etc, I also have new baby on the way and reduced household income so I will have to have a good think about renewing or not
One thing I think doesn't help people follow the club is that you can no longer get any sort of commentary free to air, fair enough for overseas folk, but not only am I not willing to pay the subs for it, but I can't cart a laptop with wifi around everywhere I go.
regarding the inclusion of cup games with s/tickets. it'd probably benefit us to include a voucher which can be exchanged for a match ticket for a seat in a stand that will be open, rather than guarauntee your usual seat.
imho i think crowds could be around the 12000 mark, and i think the club could justify to NOT sell s/t for a particular section/stand. this would result in the club making matchday savings on turnstile, steward, catering and cleaning staff.
for example,
dont sell season tickets for the (or part of) east stand (cue flask and blanket rage). put the away fans (via their existing turnstiles) through the jimmy seed stand into the farthest south blocks of the east.
next to the away fans have a seggregation area with that netting stuff and sell the rest of the east as walk-up for home fans.
not sure of how easy/hard the catering/toilet facilities would be to overcome.
no fans (or noise) from jimmy seed, reduced staffing costs whilst satisfying the people that insist the away fans use that turnstile.
there's probably reasons why not to do it but is something we should be considering.
So I lose my ST seat in the East that I've had since the Stand opened?
If the clubs going to treat me like that why should I renew my ST?
Where do you sit PBS? Why not close that section?
Close the north upper. That's the newest section so that where all the Newbies must sit. Let them suffer, they're not real fans like us in the East.
See how easy it is to really, really get this wrong. This is not the time to be pissing off sections of our core support by turfing them out of their seats unless we really, really have to.
how would you feel if the club offered you roughly the same postion seats in the west?
whatever happens regarding renewals, unless fans in certain parts of the ground are prepared for comprimise, then it's a non-starter.
[cite]Posted By: razil[/cite]woudn't be against it if we only lose 2ish farthest blocks of the East. Assuming central blocks were kept as for my ST's now..
Know you are joking but it won't be.
3,000 seats (what you have to offer) is half the East stand.
So half the stand, plus the segregation area takes us up to first L in Valley or about D block.
And then the away fans might stand so you won't be able to see from the East.
So pissed off home fans, most of a good stand lost, toilet and food outlet segregation a nightmare, disabled section now behind away fans and all to keep the Jimmy Seed stand closed
C'mon guys good to have ideas but think of the consequences.
[cite]Posted By: paulbaconsarnie[/cite]how would you feel if the club offered you roughly the same postion seats in the west?
whatever happens regarding renewals, unless fans in certain parts of the ground are prepared for comprimise, then it's a non-starter.
Great, I'd be sitting in the Directors Box. So would the whole of E block but what happens to the people who already sit opposite us? Where do they go? Or do we get pushed out to the wings of the east? Nice thank you for our loyalty from the club
Where do you sit? Why not give up your seat? Why don't you compromise?
If the club are willing to re-organise allocation of seating in the ground, this coming close season is the time to do it.
Maybe it will upset a few - but providing the benefits were there to be seen and felt by the majority, halt the freefall, and results in a re-birth of the energy and mentality that rebuilt our club nearly 20 years ago. - then it will be worth it.
For the displaced and dis-enfranchised, an additional perceived value needs to be offered as a sweetner.
There must be ways of doing this to please most of them.
We need to change the current lethargy about the place - and soon will be the time to do it.
Comments
I know, Henry. No stand, no roof, no segregated away supporters.
Hence my *really big smiley winky thingy*
;o)
I may have bumped into Rothko once or twice! ;-)
With regard to margins etc, I didn't doubt for one minute that there would have been a financial reason for taking these lesser firms. I just wonder, in the current financial climate, whether increased revenue in other replica areas such as training kit etc would offset the loss in relation to actual shirts - I really can't believe that we sell much training kit. Ours really is not very nice at all.
Out of interest do you know whether the margins are adjusted according to projected sales figures?
Just about any club can get Nike or Addidas if they want (see a park game on a Sunday) but it doesn't mean that they are getting a good deal.
Anyway if you know Rothko why not get him to ask Mike Rea for the next Fans Forum meeting about this so Mike can set it all out for fans to see.
And shouldn't the fans forum be feeding back some of these ideas to the Target 40k committee to consider or at least to respond to.
They had the meeting over the statement of intent, got some answers so now time to get involved in some nitty gritty issues IMHO
Firstly I think the season ticket prices have got to be reduced. League 1 and the current state of the economy determine that. But of course the issue is to maximise match day revenue. The accounts for 2008 have matchday revenue as £8.493m (£10.806m 2007). I would think we are going to struggle to get anywhere near that.
I would suggest some in ground freebies as part of the season ticket package which may include vouchers for/towards free hospitality meal or free beer/burger. Something that actually all/most season ticket holders can take advantage of, or can chose what suits them. Clearly it cant be done below cost price but even with a free meal you are likely to spend on drink (or vice versa).
Or alternatively perhaps one free ticket for an away match of your choosing (subject to obvious limits). That would please oohahh.
I think a sliding scale depending on how early you renew would be an option. An option for frozen prices if we subsequently go up will help alongside that.
Keep prices the same but:
Renew in May you get 15% discount and same price next season
Renew in June you get 10% discount and same price next season
and so on up till august when you get the price freeze for the following season.
The great unwashed like myself would be overawed by such grandiose surroundings and would contribute to costs by buying drinks, food etc always assuming we know what knives, forks, plates and glasses are!
You never know having tried the facilities some might even be prepared to fork out on membership to avoid queueing for a half time drink....
Not sure thats changed as it would be cash flow rather than interest earnings that they encouraged early payers.
Stick to the Chippy Len, more your style ; - )
I thought you socialists believed in equality for all not just cardigan wearers:-)
Joking apart that chippy is excellent value, certainly compared to my local one.
Do you think the idea of complimentary access to the posh bits for season ticket holders might work?
I've thought about Crossbars but firstly would they let the daughter in and secondly £100 or whatever it is is a lot to pay if you don't like the atmosphere in there which is something you won't know until you've tried it.
They were in the 3rd tier (following relegation brought about by financial irregularities)
They made it free access and played to massive crowds which made it a fortress and they are now back in the top flight.
Not saying we should go for free - but aren't Bradford doing a season ticket for £99 or something?
Surely the most important thing is getting bums on seats for the atmosphere and then making money from the extortionately expensive food and drinks and programme sales etc?
Again I think it might be an incentive to some and not others. Some would have no interest in a lounge and others none in a replica shirt.
There is also a danger of de-valuing the product if you give it away free and managing 15k (or however many) free vouchers could be a problem. Are there actually enough sittings to cope.
13,000 STs divided by 23 games equals 565 freebies a game. Don't know if they do that many paid sittings.
And it is a good chippy. My mum and dads local so have got a fish supper from there a few times. Bit of a rough crowd in their sometimes and I love the Liverpool style offy next door : - )
If we are promoted no cashback down to £50 back if we are relegated again.
One thing I think doesn't help people follow the club is that you can no longer get any sort of commentary free to air, fair enough for overseas folk, but not only am I not willing to pay the subs for it, but I can't cart a laptop with wifi around everywhere I go.
:)
imho i think crowds could be around the 12000 mark, and i think the club could justify to NOT sell s/t for a particular section/stand. this would result in the club making matchday savings on turnstile, steward, catering and cleaning staff.
for example,
dont sell season tickets for the (or part of) east stand (cue flask and blanket rage). put the away fans (via their existing turnstiles) through the jimmy seed stand into the farthest south blocks of the east.
next to the away fans have a seggregation area with that netting stuff and sell the rest of the east as walk-up for home fans.
not sure of how easy/hard the catering/toilet facilities would be to overcome.
no fans (or noise) from jimmy seed, reduced staffing costs whilst satisfying the people that insist the away fans use that turnstile.
there's probably reasons why not to do it but is something we should be considering.
*lines up against the wall ready to be shot*
:)
If the clubs going to treat me like that why should I renew my ST?
Where do you sit PBS? Why not close that section?
Close the north upper. That's the newest section so that where all the Newbies must sit. Let them suffer, they're not real fans like us in the East.
See how easy it is to really, really get this wrong. This is not the time to be pissing off sections of our core support by turfing them out of their seats unless we really, really have to.
whatever happens regarding renewals, unless fans in certain parts of the ground are prepared for comprimise, then it's a non-starter.
Know you are joking but it won't be.
3,000 seats (what you have to offer) is half the East stand.
So half the stand, plus the segregation area takes us up to first L in Valley or about D block.
And then the away fans might stand so you won't be able to see from the East.
So pissed off home fans, most of a good stand lost, toilet and food outlet segregation a nightmare, disabled section now behind away fans and all to keep the Jimmy Seed stand closed
C'mon guys good to have ideas but think of the consequences.
Great, I'd be sitting in the Directors Box. So would the whole of E block but what happens to the people who already sit opposite us? Where do they go? Or do we get pushed out to the wings of the east? Nice thank you for our loyalty from the club
Where do you sit? Why not give up your seat? Why don't you compromise?
sorry for putting forward a suggestion.
to answer your question, i sit in the north upper now but have had season tickets in the east and west previously.
i was gonna try and explain my post.
shall i just 'get over it'?
*jogs on*
*logs out*
Maybe it will upset a few - but providing the benefits were there to be seen and felt by the majority, halt the freefall, and results in a re-birth of the energy and mentality that rebuilt our club nearly 20 years ago. - then it will be worth it.
For the displaced and dis-enfranchised, an additional perceived value needs to be offered as a sweetner.
There must be ways of doing this to please most of them.
We need to change the current lethargy about the place - and soon will be the time to do it.