I'm not sure I understand our business model. We are pumping 1-2 million a year into our Academy, this year is "consolidation" yet Harriott is the only kid to be blooded. The only way to save wages is play more youth. We cannot sell our assets for a decent price if they are only appearring in 2nd tier U21 league.
Not meaning to be picky but for Harriot its a case of re blooding, Azeez has been blooded .. but the point that the bringing through of academy players in recent years has been sparse is relevant.
Who's this Chris Solly chappy I've been hearing people talk about?
On a serious note if I was an investor (and I do mean that in the correct way) looking to buy a football club, Charlton would be one of the first ones I would look at. I'm genuinely surprised that it hasn't been easier to get money in, guessing there are some horrors hidden on the balance sheet somewhere, something that makes clubs like Blackburn more attractive than clubs like Charlton...
I'd concur with that. Close to the Premier League, London, nice ground with possibility for expansion and excellent training facilities, respected academy, massive potential from ctachment area. I suppose what works against is the economic climate at the moment, but when you see buyers going into some clubs, you do wonder why they pick them over us. Maybe TJs price is too high!
I do not believe that the wages paid to the vast majority of Championship players is the problem. It is the disproportionate distribution of TV money into the Premier league to pay the obscene wages of Rooney and the like which is destroying the rest of the football league.
It's both. All the TV money has gone to players and agents, nothing into the long term health or infrastructure of the industry. I'll repeat again the startling salary benchmarks I have from last season
Charlton: 4.6m Huddersfield 6.8 m In the third bloody division, and
Viktoria Plzen, Czech Champions, and Champs league group stage: 1.8m
All English players are now vastly overpaid compared to their Europe wide relative ability. That's one reason why hardly any actually play in Europe.
Exactly Prague, the amount they are paid in comparison to their quality is ridiculous.
There will be English players earning £500,000+ PA who would not get near a game in the Bundesliga, Serie A or La Liga.
I will give you someone like the guy at Reading, Leitgerwood (spelling) for a start as well as donkeys like Carlton Cole and Wes Brown.
I do not believe that the wages paid to the vast majority of Championship players is the problem. It is the disproportionate distribution of TV money into the Premier league to pay the obscene wages of Rooney and the like which is destroying the rest of the football league.
It's both. All the TV money has gone to players and agents, nothing into the long term health or infrastructure of the industry. I'll repeat again the startling salary benchmarks I have from last season
Charlton: 4.6m Huddersfield 6.8 m In the third bloody division, and
Viktoria Plzen, Czech Champions, and Champs league group stage: 1.8m
All English players are now vastly overpaid compared to their Europe wide relative ability. That's one reason why hardly any actually play in Europe.
That might seem ridiculous but what is the overall income/turnover of a club like Plzen? They can't be making too much money through other channels, ticket prices must be peanuts and they only get 10k crowds most weeks.
I do not believe that the wages paid to the vast majority of Championship players is the problem. It is the disproportionate distribution of TV money into the Premier league to pay the obscene wages of Rooney and the like which is destroying the rest of the football league.
But the net effect is that Championship wages are far too high. Back in the 90s we had smaller crowds in a much smaller stadium (with less lounges for commercial income etc) and lower TV revenue, yet we never lost the money we are losing now. Wages have to be the main reason for this.
But it's all relative! Lets say the highest paid Premier League player is on 10 million per year (200k per week). How much would the highest paid Championship player earn? I'm guessing maybe 1 million (20k per week). Back in the 80's/ 90's, was a Division 1 player earning ten times that of a Div 2 player, I doubt it. So instead of paying Mr Rooney 10 million per year, pay him just 5 million, he'll somehow still manage to survive, he'll certainly save a lot on his tax bill. In fact cut every Premier league players salary by 50%. Then distribute the money saved throughout the lower divisions. A top Championship player could then be paid 10k per week without bankrupting his club.
But 2 wrongs don't make a right. And if Man U don't pay Rooney and RVP 150-200k a week a top club in Europe will, whereas I can't imagine too many 2nd tier clubs in Spain, Italy and Germany wanting to snap up Championship quality British players...
I do not believe that the wages paid to the vast majority of Championship players is the problem. It is the disproportionate distribution of TV money into the Premier league to pay the obscene wages of Rooney and the like which is destroying the rest of the football league.
But the net effect is that Championship wages are far too high. Back in the 90s we had smaller crowds in a much smaller stadium (with less lounges for commercial income etc) and lower TV revenue, yet we never lost the money we are losing now. Wages have to be the main reason for this.
But it's all relative! Lets say the highest paid Premier League player is on 10 million per year (200k per week). How much would the highest paid Championship player earn? I'm guessing maybe 1 million (20k per week). Back in the 80's/ 90's, was a Division 1 player earning ten times that of a Div 2 player, I doubt it. So instead of paying Mr Rooney 10 million per year, pay him just 5 million, he'll somehow still manage to survive, he'll certainly save a lot on his tax bill. In fact cut every Premier league players salary by 50%. Then distribute the money saved throughout the lower divisions. A top Championship player could then be paid 10k per week without bankrupting his club.
Although I understand your suggestion QA I don't think it could work like that. I think because the game (especially the English game) has seen clubs become so greedy they will risk the whole club just to try and get their noses in front of others.
If a Championship club was in the safe knowledge they could now afford to pay that 10k a week to someone, do you think that is all they would then pay them. If that club can now comfortably pay 10k a week due to the money being distributed from Rooney etc, perhaps another club could now also afford to pay that 10k a week. Then just like now it becomes a competition to sign him and the weekly wage would go from 10k to 20k. Therefore what good would actually come from giving more money to the lower leagues?
Maybe I'm missing something here, but surely selling the club for a lower value is preferable to administration for TJ et all? If Airman's correct that buyers are out there if only for the right price then presumably they're not that bloody minded not to know where their line is?
A buyer may get us more cheaply in administration but not necessarily healthier.
I do not believe that the wages paid to the vast majority of Championship players is the problem. It is the disproportionate distribution of TV money into the Premier league to pay the obscene wages of Rooney and the like which is destroying the rest of the football league.
But the net effect is that Championship wages are far too high. Back in the 90s we had smaller crowds in a much smaller stadium (with less lounges for commercial income etc) and lower TV revenue, yet we never lost the money we are losing now. Wages have to be the main reason for this.
But it's all relative! Lets say the highest paid Premier League player is on 10 million per year (200k per week). How much would the highest paid Championship player earn? I'm guessing maybe 1 million (20k per week). Back in the 80's/ 90's, was a Division 1 player earning ten times that of a Div 2 player, I doubt it. So instead of paying Mr Rooney 10 million per year, pay him just 5 million, he'll somehow still manage to survive, he'll certainly save a lot on his tax bill. In fact cut every Premier league players salary by 50%. Then distribute the money saved throughout the lower divisions. A top Championship player could then be paid 10k per week without bankrupting his club.
Although I understand your suggestion QA I don't think it could work like that. I think because the game (especially the English game) has seen clubs become so greedy they will risk the whole club just to try and get their noses in front of others.
If a Championship club was in the safe knowledge they could now afford to pay that 10k a week to someone, do you think that is all they would then pay them. If that club can now comfortably pay 10k a week due to the money being distributed from Rooney etc, perhaps another club could now also afford to pay that 10k a week. Then just like now it becomes a competition to sign him and the weekly wage would go from 10k to 20k. Therefore what good would actually come from giving more money to the lower leagues?
There would need to be a maximum wage imposed by the league according to a clubs' turnover. I'm not suggesting every Championship player should earn 10K per week, 5k would be a more reasonable average IMO. The point I'm trying to make is that I believe that there is enough money washing around in the game to be able to sustain all clubs and not just those in the Premiership. The top players are not just earning their 200K per week, they are also earning millions in endorsements, investments, interest etc etc. They simply do not need to be paid such high salaries. There are only so many players that the Real Madrid's and Barcelona's of this world can sign. The majority of Premier League players would have to remain in this country earning a paltry 2 million per year.
The problem is if we imposed a wage limit and nowhere else did, the players would all leave for pastures new anyway. Look at the Russian league for example, Hulk, Eto'o and Samba were all playing in freezing conditions in a predominantly racist country, all because of the vast amounts of money on offer
The problem is if we imposed a wage limit and nowhere else did, the players would all leave for pastures new anyway. Look at the Russian league for example, Hulk, Eto'o and Samba were all playing in freezing conditions in a predominantly racist country, all because of the vast amounts of money on offer
Let them leave, we will still get players to play for us within our budget.
Wage cap combined with the option of having 1/2/3 players allowed to be paid more per club, would stop one club being able to dominate and buy all the best players even if they can afford it due to screwing over other clubs 20/30 years ago rather then the last 5 years, whilst still being able to compete for some of the worlds best players with other nations league football.
It's not only English/British/PL players who are grossly overpaid (if you believe the Mirror, of course). Compare that with Charlton turnover £8.5m; can't imagine Birmingham City's would be very much more. One fairly useless player costing maybe 25% of turnover.
I'd argue that the majority of FL clubs are not being 'greedy' by overpaying players in an attempt to get to the Premiership. It goes much further than that. Perversely they are overpaying players so that they can compete. If any club attempted to live within their means then unless they had a miracle worker of a manager they would plummet down the divisions. The whole structure is wrong.
I'd argue that the majority of FL clubs are not being 'greedy' by overpaying players in an attempt to get to the Premiership. It goes much further than that. Perversely they are overpaying players so that they can compete. If any club attempted to live within their means then unless they had a miracle worker of a manager they would plummet down the divisions. The whole structure is wrong.
Or they use their parachute payments to buy out contracts, or not name certain players in the squad relegation clauses wd mean no need for parachutes tho
Maybe I'm missing something here, but surely selling the club for a lower value is preferable to administration for TJ et all? If Airman's correct that buyers are out there if only for the right price then presumably they're not that bloody minded not to know where their line is?
A buyer may get us more cheaply in administration but not necessarily healthier.
But if, as has often been suggested, TJ and MS have no money of their own invested - but everything is being financed by loans payable by one or other of the CAFC 'holding companies' does it really make much difference - particularly to TJ? Plus it was also suggested during the Dale Stephens to Villa saga in the summer that TJ had possibly misclaculated and over played his hand then in turning down Villa's rumoured offers?
I'm not sure I understand our business model. We are pumping 1-2 million a year into our Academy, this year is "consolidation" yet Harriott is the only kid to be blooded. The only way to save wages is play more youth. We cannot sell our assets for a decent price if they are only appearring in 2nd tier U21 league.
Not meaning to be picky but for Harriot its a case of re blooding, Azeez has been blooded .. but the point that the bringing through of academy players in recent years has been sparse is relevant.
Who's this Chris Solly chappy I've been hearing people talk about?
On a serious note if I was an investor (and I do mean that in the correct way) looking to buy a football club, Charlton would be one of the first ones I would look at. I'm genuinely surprised that it hasn't been easier to get money in, guessing there are some horrors hidden on the balance sheet somewhere, something that makes clubs like Blackburn more attractive than clubs like Charlton...
Agreed. Ive always thought Charlton would be an attractive buy compared to most teams in our league. We have a decent sized modern ground, half decent crowds, London and Kent to get support from, a proud history.....
I'm not sure I understand our business model. We are pumping 1-2 million a year into our Academy, this year is "consolidation" yet Harriott is the only kid to be blooded. The only way to save wages is play more youth. We cannot sell our assets for a decent price if they are only appearring in 2nd tier U21 league.
I'd say the plan is they play when they're ready. No sense throwing a bunch of kids to the wolves if they're not going to have an impact. I'd say the way Harriott's performed since coming in should prove that Powell knows when to play the kids. He also made the most of Solly and blooded Jenkinson at the right time. Just because a player exists and is doing well at u21 level doesn't mean he's ready to step up to league just below the Premiership. Powell's record indicates he knows how best to use the youngsters
I do not believe that the wages paid to the vast majority of Championship players is the problem. It is the disproportionate distribution of TV money into the Premier league to pay the obscene wages of Rooney and the like which is destroying the rest of the football league.
It's both. All the TV money has gone to players and agents, nothing into the long term health or infrastructure of the industry. I'll repeat again the startling salary benchmarks I have from last season
Charlton: 4.6m Huddersfield 6.8 m In the third bloody division, and
Viktoria Plzen, Czech Champions, and Champs league group stage: 1.8m
All English players are now vastly overpaid compared to their Europe wide relative ability. That's one reason why hardly any actually play in Europe.
That might seem ridiculous but what is the overall income/turnover of a club like Plzen? They can't be making too much money through other channels, ticket prices must be peanuts and they only get 10k crowds most weeks.
Indeed, their revenue is probably lower than Charlton's, although possibly not that season because of the Champs league run.
But my point is, no Charlton player other than Solly wold get near their first eleven, yet they are all earning far more than the Plzen players. So my point is, English club players are grossly overpaid. It's trickle down effect of the Prem.
I'm not sure I understand our business model. We are pumping 1-2 million a year into our Academy, this year is "consolidation" yet Harriott is the only kid to be blooded. The only way to save wages is play more youth. We cannot sell our assets for a decent price if they are only appearring in 2nd tier U21 league.
This is true. Blooding youth can cause us not to "push on" or fulfill a number of fans/customers.
It may work brilliantly, but unfortunately we live in a world, where immediate success is expected. Immediate success mentality is fuelled by the "prize of the premier league money". Which therefore forces the hand of chairmen.
But some chairmen/owners are no longer fans. Simply businessmen, to try to use football clubs as a tool/asset to enhance their own riches.
I can't see much changing unfortunately. Well...in my lifetime anyway.
We know how it works - think of a team beating the big sides, looking set for 4th and a Champions League place - tonking Chelsea, then losing their best player to them soon afterwards and finishing 7th. Finishing 7th for me was the equivalent of winning the league- as far as the big clubs will let you go. Prefered the days when teams like Forest could be successful due to the strength of their manager.
Around 10 of the Championship clubs owe £700M between them, yes £70M each! Many of these clubs are losing £10M a season and some of those numbers are 2011 year end so two years out of date by the end of this season. So those ten most indebted clubs might soon owe £1BILLION!
Cardiff is one of those but their push for promotion will pay off with the Sky TV deal on offer next season. That leaves nine others - listed in Trust News coming out on Saturday... If Charlton are losing £7M a year then the current owners have lent £14M into the club to get this far... seems a bit strange to give up when we are only a few players away from a squad who can challenge for the top 6 by winning more than the occasional game at home!
There are a few clubs who are relatively debt free in this division and this is for one of two reasons: They secured a year or two in the Premier and didn't piss the money away (like Charlton at first) and then there are Leeds and Palace who have both been through administration. What CAFC is worth and what the owners want maybe miles apart or perhaps their apparent lack of appetite for throwing in another £7M (plus whatever might be needed to push on) might focus their minds... All I know is that the fans need to come together with one voice on this and we look to ensure that the club doesn't fall over through lack of investment. Again there is much on this topic in Trust News including a guestimate of club revenues and expenditure this season...
This idea of administration is interesting when you think about our situation. There are three main creditors to the club - the owners, the bank mortgage on the North Stand and the ex directors who get paid back £10M when we return to the Premier League. Are they all happy to be wiped out or will someone step forward to share or even take over the risk and reward?
PS anyone see Jenkinson tonight vs Bayern? Hopefully some more appearance money from Arsenal at some stage?
Comments
There will be English players earning £500,000+ PA who would not get near a game in the Bundesliga, Serie A or La Liga.
I will give you someone like the guy at Reading, Leitgerwood (spelling) for a start as well as donkeys like Carlton Cole and Wes Brown.
That might seem ridiculous but what is the overall income/turnover of a club like Plzen? They can't be making too much money through other channels, ticket prices must be peanuts and they only get 10k crowds most weeks.
If a Championship club was in the safe knowledge they could now afford to pay that 10k a week to someone, do you think that is all they would then pay them. If that club can now comfortably pay 10k a week due to the money being distributed from Rooney etc, perhaps another club could now also afford to pay that 10k a week. Then just like now it becomes a competition to sign him and the weekly wage would go from 10k to 20k. Therefore what good would actually come from giving more money to the lower leagues?
A buyer may get us more cheaply in administration but not necessarily healthier.
It's not only English/British/PL players who are grossly overpaid (if you believe the Mirror, of course). Compare that with Charlton turnover £8.5m; can't imagine Birmingham City's would be very much more. One fairly useless player costing maybe 25% of turnover.
Big clubs just scoop up everyone and then loan them out.
But also obligatory relegation clauses
But my point is, no Charlton player other than Solly wold get near their first eleven, yet they are all earning far more than the Plzen players. So my point is, English club players are grossly overpaid. It's trickle down effect of the Prem.
It may work brilliantly, but unfortunately we live in a world, where immediate success is expected. Immediate success mentality is fuelled by the "prize of the premier league money". Which therefore forces the hand of chairmen.
But some chairmen/owners are no longer fans. Simply businessmen, to try to use football clubs as a tool/asset to enhance their own riches.
I can't see much changing unfortunately. Well...in my lifetime anyway.
Cardiff is one of those but their push for promotion will pay off with the Sky TV deal on offer next season. That leaves nine others - listed in Trust News coming out on Saturday...
If Charlton are losing £7M a year then the current owners have lent £14M into the club to get this far... seems a bit strange to give up when we are only a few players away from a squad who can challenge for the top 6 by winning more than the occasional game at home!
There are a few clubs who are relatively debt free in this division and this is for one of two reasons: They secured a year or two in the Premier and didn't piss the money away (like Charlton at first) and then there are Leeds and Palace who have both been through administration.
What CAFC is worth and what the owners want maybe miles apart or perhaps their apparent lack of appetite for throwing in another £7M (plus whatever might be needed to push on) might focus their minds... All I know is that the fans need to come together with one voice on this and we look to ensure that the club doesn't fall over through lack of investment.
Again there is much on this topic in Trust News including a guestimate of club revenues and expenditure this season...
This idea of administration is interesting when you think about our situation. There are three main creditors to the club - the owners, the bank mortgage on the North Stand and the ex directors who get paid back £10M when we return to the Premier League. Are they all happy to be wiped out or will someone step forward to share or even take over the risk and reward?
PS anyone see Jenkinson tonight vs Bayern? Hopefully some more appearance money from Arsenal at some stage?