well a concern about a drop in season ticket renewals is probably right. Some might think I'm mad but don't think we have too many players of significant value ie no Zara type player and, in my opinion, if we had to sell we wouldn't raise a lot. In a meantime lumping in a million a month to keep us going isn't sustainable as no one currently involved can afford to do it. New investment is essential. So I wouldn't dismiss the above out of hand. Whether its imminent or to, who knows.
I always love the concept of 'investment' in a business (a football club) which is losing money hand over fist. Imagine someone coming to you saying 'give me shedloads of wonga and I will give it to a guy (the manager) who (if he stays in his job) will take a punt and if it pays off you may, if you are lucky get your stake back.' Now there are many who would be willing to take the risk. As there are also many who are willing to 'invest' in the Lads from Lagos schemes but the issue always is the dynamic between: 'Spend to accumulate' against 'don't throw good money after bad'. To the likes of Abramovich, he can afford the loss of buying players who turn out to be crap (see Torres) but most (including CAFC) can't. I cannot criticise the owners. My financial 'investment' amounts to a couple of season tickets but theirs is substantially more.
I won't comment on the financial situation, but you can pretty much discount a drop in season ticket sales as a factor. At the new prices they'd need to be down 20% or more before the club was worse off financially - and those people would have to stop going altogether not just give up their ST. No likelihood of that in my opinion. We've had these forecasts of doom around season tickets before and they have always been overstated.
Even if STs were down 30%, which is wildly unlikely, the actual revenue would probably only fall by, say, £250k. That isn't material given the size of the operating loss and the size of individual salary pay-outs.
This isn't a club specific problem, I can see half the clubs outside of the Premier League going into administration if they haven't already. It's time to address the issue of TV money distribution again. Perhaps the only way to force a fair outcome would be for a coordinated 20 or so clubs to enter administration at the same time.
This isn't a club specific problem, I can see half the clubs outside of the Premier League going into administration if they haven't already. It's time to address the issue of TV money distribution again. Perhaps the only way to force a fair outcome would be for a coordinated 20 or so clubs to enter administration at the same time.
The TV money is not the core problem - the ridiculous player wages are.
Clubs are paying players way more than they can afford and it has to stop.
I'm not sure I understand our business model. We are pumping 1-2 million a year into our Academy, this year is "consolidation" yet Harriott is the only kid to be blooded. The only way to save wages is play more youth. We cannot sell our assets for a decent price if they are only appearring in 2nd tier U21 league.
I won't comment on the financial situation, but you can pretty much discount a drop in season ticket sales as a factor. At the new prices they'd need to be down 20% or more before the club was worse off financially - and those people would have to stop going altogether not just give up their ST. No likelihood of that in my opinion. We've had these forecasts of doom around season tickets before and they have always been overstated.
Even if STs were down 30%, which is wildly unlikely, the actual revenue would probably only fall by, say, £250k. That isn't material given the size of the operating loss and the size of individual salary pay-outs.
Cheers AB. Reassuring in one sense. However, a significant reduction in renewals/uptake would surely still be damaging to the business model, especially in terms of attraction new investment. Also can't see pay as you go punters attending huge numbers if games ie I'm sure lots have stopped this year given the home form.
A lot more likely now than it was during the darkest days, as it would be an interesting way for the new regime to get rid of the "friendly" debt. That would make the club a lot more saleable going forward with a clean balance sheet. Don't believe it though...
I'm not sure I understand our business model. We are pumping 1-2 million a year into our Academy, this year is "consolidation" yet Harriott is the only kid to be blooded. The only way to save wages is play more youth. We cannot sell our assets for a decent price if they are only appearring in 2nd tier U21 league.
Not meaning to be picky but for Harriot its a case of re blooding, Azeez has been blooded .. but the point that the bringing through of academy players in recent years has been sparse is relevant.
Only in the sense that clubs receiving Championship TV money pay crazy money to players to try and get to the Premier League promised land and the mega TV money that is there.
If people lived within their means in the CCC then it would not be as big a problem as it is but clubs like Brizzle City insist on paying crazy wages to David James et al to try and get to the promised land.
Also, anyone that does not have 'relegation clauses' in players PL contracts deserves all they get.
as Prague says, pretty much if players expect to be paid their current levels in the Champs there will need to be a change in the distribution of TV money
Finances would be sorted and the future of clubs in the Championship would be secure.
But, the EPL would be become a largely closed shop. Most of the time the EPL would consist of 20 the same 23 clubs (the 20 in the EPL and the 3 that had just been relegated). The difference in wealth of those just relegated from the EPL and the rest of the Championship would be so great, that teams relegated from the EPL would most times be promoted straight back to the EPL.
Living within our means, as things currently stand with the division of TV money, would mean the abandonment of dreams and hopes.
The reality is that it is more important to win in front of 16k home fans than 1600 away fans (Oohaah please confirm the actual numbers:-))
well you'd like to think it was 1,600 what with our amazing away form but 1,064 is the average away following for us so far in the Championship this season
any team at our level that is potless has to be "near" administration------------its how near that is the question. My guess is that more than half of this division is close to admin.
Very true. Wasn't it posted on here a while ago that Bristol City had a ridiculous amount of debt? Cardiff have something like 80m of debt, god knows what they'll do if they blow promotion. I doubt there are too many teams in this division making any profit at all.
I'm not sure I understand our business model. We are pumping 1-2 million a year into our Academy, this year is "consolidation" yet Harriott is the only kid to be blooded. The only way to save wages is play more youth. We cannot sell our assets for a decent price if they are only appearring in 2nd tier U21 league.
Not meaning to be picky but for Harriot its a case of re blooding, Azeez has been blooded .. but the point that the bringing through of academy players in recent years has been sparse is relevant.
Who's this Chris Solly chappy I've been hearing people talk about?
On a serious note if I was an investor (and I do mean that in the correct way) looking to buy a football club, Charlton would be one of the first ones I would look at. I'm genuinely surprised that it hasn't been easier to get money in, guessing there are some horrors hidden on the balance sheet somewhere, something that makes clubs like Blackburn more attractive than clubs like Charlton...
The reality is that it is more important to win in front of 16k home fans than 1600 away fans (Oohaah please confirm the actual numbers:-))
well you'd like to think it was 1,600 what with our amazing away form but 1,064 is the average away following for us so far in the Championship this season
I'm not sure I understand our business model. We are pumping 1-2 million a year into our Academy, this year is "consolidation" yet Harriott is the only kid to be blooded. The only way to save wages is play more youth. We cannot sell our assets for a decent price if they are only appearring in 2nd tier U21 league.
If you don't have a sugar daddy/mummy, if you're not a rich persons plaything, then you have to live within your means. We should be moving as quickly as possible in that direction, and take the hit in performances and league positions.
I do not believe that the wages paid to the vast majority of Championship players is the problem. It is the disproportionate distribution of TV money into the Premier league to pay the obscene wages of Rooney and the like which is destroying the rest of the football league.
Perhaps the only way to force a fair outcome would be for a coordinated 20 or so clubs to enter administration at the same time.
It would be interesting to see how the FL would deal with that!
Unlikely in the Champs, of course. Especially with parachute money payments. But just supposing 20 or so clubs in the same division did start the season together on minus 10 points.
Clubs queueing up for relegation on 39 points? The couple of clubs not in admin might be promoted by Christmas.
I do not believe that the wages paid to the vast majority of Championship players is the problem. It is the disproportionate distribution of TV money into the Premier league to pay the obscene wages of Rooney and the like which is destroying the rest of the football league.
But the net effect is that Championship wages are far too high. Back in the 90s we had smaller crowds in a much smaller stadium (with less lounges for commercial income etc) and lower TV revenue, yet we never lost the money we are losing now. Wages have to be the main reason for this.
I do not believe that the wages paid to the vast majority of Championship players is the problem. It is the disproportionate distribution of TV money into the Premier league to pay the obscene wages of Rooney and the like which is destroying the rest of the football league.
It's both. All the TV money has gone to players and agents, nothing into the long term health or infrastructure of the industry. I'll repeat again the startling salary benchmarks I have from last season
Charlton: 4.6m Huddersfield 6.8 m In the third bloody division, and
Viktoria Plzen, Czech Champions, and Champs league group stage: 1.8m
All English players are now vastly overpaid compared to their Europe wide relative ability. That's one reason why hardly any actually play in Europe.
I do not believe that the wages paid to the vast majority of Championship players is the problem. It is the disproportionate distribution of TV money into the Premier league to pay the obscene wages of Rooney and the like which is destroying the rest of the football league.
It's both. All the TV money has gone to players and agents, nothing into the long term health or infrastructure of the industry. I'll repeat again the startling salary benchmarks I have from last season
Charlton: 4.6m Huddersfield 6.8 m In the third bloody division, and
Viktoria Plzen, Czech Champions, and Champs league group stage: 1.8m
All English players are now vastly overpaid compared to their Europe wide relative ability. That's one reason why hardly any actually play in Europe.
And why there are such a large number of relatively mediocre players from eu countries in the English leagues.
I do not believe that the wages paid to the vast majority of Championship players is the problem. It is the disproportionate distribution of TV money into the Premier league to pay the obscene wages of Rooney and the like which is destroying the rest of the football league.
But the net effect is that Championship wages are far too high. Back in the 90s we had smaller crowds in a much smaller stadium (with less lounges for commercial income etc) and lower TV revenue, yet we never lost the money we are losing now. Wages have to be the main reason for this.
But it's all relative! Lets say the highest paid Premier League player is on 10 million per year (200k per week). How much would the highest paid Championship player earn? I'm guessing maybe 1 million (20k per week). Back in the 80's/ 90's, was a Division 1 player earning ten times that of a Div 2 player, I doubt it. So instead of paying Mr Rooney 10 million per year, pay him just 5 million, he'll somehow still manage to survive, he'll certainly save a lot on his tax bill. In fact cut every Premier league players salary by 50%. Then distribute the money saved throughout the lower divisions. A top Championship player could then be paid 10k per week without bankrupting his club.
I do not believe that the wages paid to the vast majority of Championship players is the problem. It is the disproportionate distribution of TV money into the Premier league to pay the obscene wages of Rooney and the like which is destroying the rest of the football league.
It's both. All the TV money has gone to players and agents, nothing into the long term health or infrastructure of the industry. I'll repeat again the startling salary benchmarks I have from last season
Charlton: 4.6m Huddersfield 6.8 m In the third bloody division, and
Viktoria Plzen, Czech Champions, and Champs league group stage: 1.8m
All English players are now vastly overpaid compared to their Europe wide relative ability. That's one reason why hardly any actually play in Europe.
Wages and salary costs last year were recorded in the accounts as £7.99m, whatever members of the board were saying during the year. Non-playing staff shouldn't account for more than a quarter of that at most.
As to how easy the club would be to sell, the issue is price and what the current owners have been prepared to release. There has been and continues to be interest.
Comments
Even if STs were down 30%, which is wildly unlikely, the actual revenue would probably only fall by, say, £250k. That isn't material given the size of the operating loss and the size of individual salary pay-outs.
Clubs are paying players way more than they can afford and it has to stop.
It has to change or more and more clubs will go out of business
If people lived within their means in the CCC then it would not be as big a problem as it is but clubs like Brizzle City insist on paying crazy wages to David James et al to try and get to the promised land.
Also, anyone that does not have 'relegation clauses' in players PL contracts deserves all they get.
But, the EPL would be become a largely closed shop. Most of the time the EPL would consist of 20 the same 23 clubs (the 20 in the EPL and the 3 that had just been relegated). The difference in wealth of those just relegated from the EPL and the rest of the Championship would be so great, that teams relegated from the EPL would most times be promoted straight back to the EPL.
Living within our means, as things currently stand with the division of TV money, would mean the abandonment of dreams and hopes.
Very true. Wasn't it posted on here a while ago that Bristol City had a ridiculous amount of debt? Cardiff have something like 80m of debt, god knows what they'll do if they blow promotion. I doubt there are too many teams in this division making any profit at all.
On a serious note if I was an investor (and I do mean that in the correct way) looking to buy a football club, Charlton would be one of the first ones I would look at. I'm genuinely surprised that it hasn't been easier to get money in, guessing there are some horrors hidden on the balance sheet somewhere, something that makes clubs like Blackburn more attractive than clubs like Charlton...
It would be interesting to see how the FL would deal with that!
Unlikely in the Champs, of course. Especially with parachute money payments.
But just supposing 20 or so clubs in the same division did start the season together on minus 10 points.
Clubs queueing up for relegation on 39 points?
The couple of clubs not in admin might be promoted by Christmas.
Charlton: 4.6m
Huddersfield 6.8 m
In the third bloody division, and
Viktoria Plzen, Czech Champions, and Champs league group stage: 1.8m
All English players are now vastly overpaid compared to their Europe wide relative ability. That's one reason why hardly any actually play in Europe.
Back in the 80's/ 90's, was a Division 1 player earning ten times that of a Div 2 player, I doubt it.
So instead of paying Mr Rooney 10 million per year, pay him just 5 million, he'll somehow still manage to survive, he'll certainly save a lot on his tax bill. In fact cut every Premier league players salary by 50%. Then distribute the money saved throughout the lower divisions. A top Championship player could then be paid 10k per week without bankrupting his club.
As to how easy the club would be to sell, the issue is price and what the current owners have been prepared to release. There has been and continues to be interest.