A good article, saddens me to read it, although it does simplify what has happened. The fans comments irritate me, even though I agree with them 75%. Its a shame Curbs has only been back in a non professional capacity once.
Can't argue with much of that as a summary of events. We are emotionally involved so perhaps see some aspects differently but for a neutral observer it is a pretty fair analysis.
I wonder who the commenter is who said that we got rid of the fans director because the last one got too big for his boots?
That pic of all the 'THANKS CURBS' banners in the middle of the piece brought a lump to my throat!
He's certainly right when he says the board must shoulder a fair proportion of the blame. If they were running a hospital or a school, the authorities would have stepped in by now and removed them !
I've asked him to explain how he calculated the £37m debt figure. It may be that's he's taken into account assets not owned by the club but which are not strictly debts (am I right, for example, in thinking that we don't own the traning ground but it is owned by a director and his family?)
I've asked him to explain how he calculated the £37m debt figure
........
I presume it includes the debt on the East Stand, which i think is under mortgage and a controlled debt. Therefore a bit like saying a homeowner has a £100k debt because they have a £100k mortgage.
[cite]Posted By: nigel w[/cite]That pic of all the 'THANKS CURBS' banners in the middle of the piece brought a lump to my throat!
Got to love the curbs was our saviour banner, complete with a nun outfit!
You can't blame the fans, if Dowie was a big success and we got in to Europe no one would be congratulating us. I think it was only 2 or 3 members on netaddicks that wanted him out and were usually laughed at.
Yawn, getting bored of these 'look who far Charlton have fallen pieces'. They were done to death three months ago, and there should be an amnesty of them until we get relegated to Division 3, if we do.
We desperately need to break the doom and gloom backdrop and turn it into a positive one. Its our only real chance of survival this year, and that should be the only focus at the moment.
The thing that really irks me is that the press/media hardly ever recognised our acheivements when we were doing well but are quite happy to bang on about it when we're not.
[cite]Posted By: AFKABartram[/cite]Yawn, getting bored of these 'look who far Charlton have fallen pieces'. They were done to death three months ago, and there should be an amnesty of them until we get relegated to Division 3, if we do.
We desperately need to break the doom and gloom backdrop and turn it into a positive one. Its our only real chance of survival this year, and that should be the only focus at the moment.
agree but it's out there like it or not. I'm in the not camp.
[cite]Posted By: BlackForestReds[/cite]I've asked him to explain how he calculated the £37m debt figure
........
I presume it includes the debt on the East Stand, which i think is under mortgage and a controlled debt. Therefore a bit like saying a homeowner has a £100k debt because they have a £100k mortgage.
The mortgage was on the North Stand and was about £12 which is being paid off at about £2m a year so is now down to well below £10. Certainly not another £17m
[cite]Posted By: LenGlover[/cite]
I wonder who the commenter is who said that we got rid of the fans director because the last one got too big for his boots?
You've got to laugh. The infamous "I heard" with no source as ever. Nothing to do with the 2 year term being up then plus he describes us as Atticks. A real fan obviously.
[cite]Posted By: oohaahmortimer[/cite]'Medium sized club, did well, stupid fans living in cloud cuckoo land always demand more.
Same story that always happens, it just took longer to play out at Charlton.'
harsh but fair
But that isn't what it actually says, is it? Guess people will read into it what they want to. Curbs's quote refers to the poor decision making at the heart of the problem.
I find the piece a bit simplistic and lacking in insight. Sure you can trace the decline to Curbs's departure, but there's an implication here that it was inevitable that we would appoint 4 rubbish managers in succession and allow two of them to spunk the family silver on rubbish players. I just don't agree with that.
Will be interesting to see FF tomorrow, I believe there's a number of interviews with people inside the club.
A reasonable, neutral, straight forward article I think - although it fails to point out that we were in relegation form before Curbs left.
On a trivial matter, have to disagree with the assertion that Curbs' teams often got 18 points from the 3 relegated teams
I doubt we did it once let alone often .... it's annoying when people make up stats for their own convenience!
Also, in the comments thought this was well pointed out by the Pompey fan,
"Iain Dowie has built his entire managerial career on the fact Andy Johnson had a terrific run of form for a year under him at Palace"
- although it should probably say 5 months
I tell you what also gets my goat, there are lots of talented charlton bloggers who struggle to get more than two people leave a comment / feedback after writing articles that are far more incisive than this, yet as soon as some Hooray Henry from the Beeb pens some basic stuck there are keyboard wars to get their comments on there first !
[cite]Posted By: AFKABartram[/cite]I tell you what also gets my goat, there are lots of talented charlton bloggers who struggle to get more than two people leave a comment / feedback after writing articles that are far more incisive than this, yet as soon as some Hooray Henry from the Beeb pens some basic stuck there are keyboard wars to get their comments on their first !
As Suzi would say, grrrrrr
I resent that Hooray comment ; - )
Too true what you say but that is the nature of the BBC. Has a much bigger audience and resources so is bound to attract more comments but blogs like that and the 606 message board do seem to attract more than their fair share of keyboard warriors and nutters who repeat the same moans there or on Fans Views etc etc.
[cite]Posted By: oohaahmortimer[/cite]'Medium sized club, did well, stupid fans living in cloud cuckoo land always demand more.
Same story that always happens, it just took longer to play out at Charlton.'
harsh but fair
But that isn't what it actually says, is it? Guess people will read into it what they want to. Curbs's quote refers to the poor decision making at the heart of the problem.
I find the piece a bit simplistic and lacking in insight. Sure you can trace the decline to Curbs's departure, but there's an implication here that it was inevitable that we would appoint 4 rubbish managers in succession and allow two of them to spunk the family silver on rubbish players. I just don't agree with that.
I agree. It was not inevitable although the club was always going to face a problem replacing Curbs after so long. It didn't do it at all well and increased the problem by going down in debt but if Davies or Parkinson had been appointed who knows.
Don't want to go around and around that debate again as we have been there often enough but as you say it was not written in stone and neither is our future.
Agreed, LBJT. There's nothing at which to take offence in the article - but the comments of Watford and Shef Wednesday fans which follow are much harder to swallow (even if they are probably right.)
But that's democracy - when comment is free (as it should be), it can sometimes be cheap with it, too!
I suspect the truth is that the main reason we are attracting this kind of attention is not simply our decline (which happens to many clubs), but the notion that was common currency for so long that we were some sort of 'model club' with an operational template to which the Watfords and Wednesdays of this world should aspire.
We all did our bit towards fostering that notion and it now looks like hubris.
That's why we're now being bitten. It's like the Tory Party claiming to be the standard-bearers of morality - and then all sleazily being caught in bed with their secretaries. If they had kept their mouths shut about morals in the first place, nobody would have cared who they slept with. Ditto us and 'model club'.
On a trivial matter, have to disagree with the assertion that Curbs' teams often got 18 points from the 3 relegated teams
I doubt we did it once let alone often .... it's annoying when people make up stats for their own convenience!
It's a fair cop, Salad. I have checked the stats. We collected 16 points at best (twice). Nevertheless, I think the point I made still stands.
I thought we used to do better against the better sides as the team managed to raise the game. No idea on stats, but I do remember that we seemed to be better when playing top half teams and then everyone was frustrated because we lost to teams below us.
We desperately need to break the doom and gloom backdrop and turn it into a positive one. Its our only real chance of survival this year, and that should be the only focus at the moment.
Thank you, AFKA.
That is the only purpose behind my mantra of 'optimism'.
That's why as a club and supporters, whatever we do - it's in OUR own hands.
Some of the comments at the bottom are irritiating.
The idea we got rid of curbs because fans and the board got arrogant and thought they needed/wanted/deserved a UEFA cup place is unfair. Murray had wanted Curbs on a long term contract and decided to let him go a year early because he wouldn't guarantee he would sign it. They then gambled with a big transfer fund to keep our PL status and ensure we didn't miss out on increased tv money, not to chase Europe.
Fan expectation did rise, but that's a universal thing. Villa fans boo off their team after 0-0 draws, despite how well they're doing this season. There was frustration from fans: the football under Curbs, and in our mini-league generally, was boring (remember our six 0-0's in nine games in 05/06?) and end of season collapses were very frustrating. But we were a million miles from an anti-curbs movement. We showed our appreciation at the end of his time with us.
I don't think you can look at why clubs like us and leicester end up where we are without looking at the distribution of wealth in english football.
[cite]Posted By: BBClaus[/cite]I don't think you can look at why clubs like us and leicester end up where we are without looking at the distribution of wealth in english football.
You're right, Claus .... fan expectation is a two sided thing. it can destroy a club as well as build it.
Look at Liverpool supporters this season - they booed off their team after a 0-0 draw against some underdog who had treated it like a cup final, and had run through brickwalls and sweated blood for their hard won point.
But the point also took their Liverpool team to the top of the League for about the first time in 10 years.
Comments
Same story that always happens, it just took longer to play out at Charlton.'
harsh but fair
I wonder who the commenter is who said that we got rid of the fans director because the last one got too big for his boots?
Chirpy?:-)
He's certainly right when he says the board must shoulder a fair proportion of the blame. If they were running a hospital or a school, the authorities would have stepped in by now and removed them !
I've asked him to explain how he calculated the £37m debt figure. It may be that's he's taken into account assets not owned by the club but which are not strictly debts (am I right, for example, in thinking that we don't own the traning ground but it is owned by a director and his family?)
........
I presume it includes the debt on the East Stand, which i think is under mortgage and a controlled debt. Therefore a bit like saying a homeowner has a £100k debt because they have a £100k mortgage.
:)
You can't blame the fans, if Dowie was a big success and we got in to Europe no one would be congratulating us. I think it was only 2 or 3 members on netaddicks that wanted him out and were usually laughed at.
We desperately need to break the doom and gloom backdrop and turn it into a positive one. Its our only real chance of survival this year, and that should be the only focus at the moment.
Sign of the times we live in I suppose.
agree but it's out there like it or not. I'm in the not camp.
The mortgage was on the North Stand and was about £12 which is being paid off at about £2m a year so is now down to well below £10. Certainly not another £17m
You've got to laugh. The infamous "I heard" with no source as ever. Nothing to do with the 2 year term being up then plus he describes us as Atticks. A real fan obviously.
:-)
But that isn't what it actually says, is it? Guess people will read into it what they want to. Curbs's quote refers to the poor decision making at the heart of the problem.
I find the piece a bit simplistic and lacking in insight. Sure you can trace the decline to Curbs's departure, but there's an implication here that it was inevitable that we would appoint 4 rubbish managers in succession and allow two of them to spunk the family silver on rubbish players. I just don't agree with that.
Will be interesting to see FF tomorrow, I believe there's a number of interviews with people inside the club.
On a trivial matter, have to disagree with the assertion that Curbs' teams often got 18 points from the 3 relegated teams
I doubt we did it once let alone often .... it's annoying when people make up stats for their own convenience!
Also, in the comments thought this was well pointed out by the Pompey fan,
"Iain Dowie has built his entire managerial career on the fact Andy Johnson had a terrific run of form for a year under him at Palace"
- although it should probably say 5 months
As Suzi would say, grrrrrr
I resent that Hooray comment ; - )
Too true what you say but that is the nature of the BBC. Has a much bigger audience and resources so is bound to attract more comments but blogs like that and the 606 message board do seem to attract more than their fair share of keyboard warriors and nutters who repeat the same moans there or on Fans Views etc etc.
I agree. It was not inevitable although the club was always going to face a problem replacing Curbs after so long. It didn't do it at all well and increased the problem by going down in debt but if Davies or Parkinson had been appointed who knows.
Don't want to go around and around that debate again as we have been there often enough but as you say it was not written in stone and neither is our future.
Other teams' fans thinking they know.
But that's democracy - when comment is free (as it should be), it can sometimes be cheap with it, too!
I suspect the truth is that the main reason we are attracting this kind of attention is not simply our decline (which happens to many clubs), but the notion that was common currency for so long that we were some sort of 'model club' with an operational template to which the Watfords and Wednesdays of this world should aspire.
We all did our bit towards fostering that notion and it now looks like hubris.
That's why we're now being bitten. It's like the Tory Party claiming to be the standard-bearers of morality - and then all sleazily being caught in bed with their secretaries. If they had kept their mouths shut about morals in the first place, nobody would have cared who they slept with. Ditto us and 'model club'.
It's a fair cop, Salad. I have checked the stats. We collected 16 points at best (twice). Nevertheless, I think the point I made still stands.
Dave Rudd was spot on in what he said.
Never less than 9 points.
Lol!
Thank you, AFKA.
That is the only purpose behind my mantra of 'optimism'.
That's why as a club and supporters, whatever we do - it's in OUR own hands.
The idea we got rid of curbs because fans and the board got arrogant and thought they needed/wanted/deserved a UEFA cup place is unfair. Murray had wanted Curbs on a long term contract and decided to let him go a year early because he wouldn't guarantee he would sign it. They then gambled with a big transfer fund to keep our PL status and ensure we didn't miss out on increased tv money, not to chase Europe.
Fan expectation did rise, but that's a universal thing. Villa fans boo off their team after 0-0 draws, despite how well they're doing this season. There was frustration from fans: the football under Curbs, and in our mini-league generally, was boring (remember our six 0-0's in nine games in 05/06?) and end of season collapses were very frustrating. But we were a million miles from an anti-curbs movement. We showed our appreciation at the end of his time with us.
I don't think you can look at why clubs like us and leicester end up where we are without looking at the distribution of wealth in english football.
that is exactly where the problem lies
Look at Liverpool supporters this season - they booed off their team after a 0-0 draw against some underdog who had treated it like a cup final, and had run through brickwalls and sweated blood for their hard won point.
But the point also took their Liverpool team to the top of the League for about the first time in 10 years.
There really is no pleasing some people.
That's just what Jesus said sir.....