He's a poo boy with no official standing. He has plagued the OS Your Views and has now turned his malicious attentions to 606 amongst other sites. He isn't worthy of consideration but he is representative of trouble makers who are not helping Charlton.
1. They feel as if they are making a financial commitment to the club, to help it budget for the season
2. It gets the payment out the way, takes the hassle away from having to buy tickets
3. They don't want to give up the seat they have had for x years.
How many still fall in that category is up for question.
What the real killer for Charlton is that fans are completely out the habit of actually paying for tickets on a match by match basis. The big fear is if they jack in their season ticket, they are unlikely to go regularly again as a pay-by-match customer, largely because 'they can't be bothered' going out of their way to buy tickets.
[cite]Posted By: stilladdicted[/cite]He's a poo boy with no official standing. He has plagued the OS Your Views and has now turned his malicious attentions to 606 amongst other sites. He isn't worthy of consideration but he is representative of trouble makers who are not helping Charlton.
used to bombard the old Supporters' Director with emails as well
[cite]Posted By: stilladdicted[/cite]You miss my point. I am not a fan of Nick, I do not think the message is anything other than I or we suspected, but it is the deliberate attempt to stir up hostilites that concern me. We need fans to stay on-side right now and agit prop is less than helpful. I just think that the board needs to make a clear statement to end all this constant sniping and allow us all a chance to focus and concentrate on re-building.
Didn't mean to imply that you were.
I think the board said a lot at the AGM and will answer the Fans Forum letter.
The sniping will not stop regradless because people like Nick will either ignore what is said (as he has with the AGM) or will just dismiss it as lies or spin.
Look at the thread AFKA started here on Wed morning called 'so who is up for the job'...
Parky will still be manager in 18 months even if we're down the bottom of div one because the board are not preprared to spend any money on getting rid of yet another manager. They've appointed four in two and a half years at great cost, only to find none of them can halt the downward spiral.
As Ketman pointed out, nothing is going to change at our club until there is new outside investment. The current board have concluded they have done all they can and they have made it plain that all we can expect from them is a minimal level of damage limitation as we continue to slide. That hopefully means keeping us out of administration but not a great deal more.
I can see only three possible scenarios which mean Parky will not still be here in a year and a half's time regardless of how poor the results are :
a) Another club offers him a better job
b) A rich consortium buys the club
c) Parky resigns.
The first two are so unlikely as not to be worth thinking about.
The third scenario is possible if results continue like this into next season and he has lost the dressing room and the fans and only has the board still backing him for what he wll know are the wrong reasons. Unlike Pardew, I thing he has some vestiges of honour and it is within the realms of possibility that he would do the honourable thing and walk.
Otherwise we're stuck with him so we might as well rally behind the man as best we can. Immedate objectve: ten points from the next five matches, which will at least spare the poor bloke the indignity of having a worse record this season than the 16pts from 18 games whch earned Pardew the sack.
[cite]Posted By: Oggy Red[/cite]Now it seems with 15 games left, the Board have joined the Defeatists. Unbelievable!
Defeatists Realists. Anyone who thinks we're getting out of this needs sectioning. There isn't one positive that can be put in or taken out of our situation.
The whole things smacks of an organisation that has lost all hope and interest at the top and it's filtered down to the shop-floor. If rumours are true the board, however culpable, are right - the sooner this season is finished the better.
I don't think Parky will resign as his reputation will be 100% shot. Isn't it more likely that he will respond by thinking "I'm going to prove them wrong"?
Presently Parky has 18 months-ish of his present contract to run (remainder of this wretched season and all of next).
So if we do allow ourselves to be relegated, how is Parky going to attract and get the best from a squad of players who'll know his contract is up at the end of that season?
Because surely it won't be renewed/extended if we don't make the necessary impact on Division One next season.
If the Board thought Curbs couldn't manage under those circumstances, do they think that Parky can .... ?
We would expect a lot of what is being discussed in this thread to be addressed when the Club responds to last week's formal communication from the Fans' Forum representatives. For those who haven't seen it, we have called for a 'Statement of Intent' from the Club, designed to ensure clarity in and communication of the way in which a number of key strategic issues are being dealt with (relegation, administration, financial security etc).
We expect a fairly detailed and well-considered response (not simple one-liners), so we felt it appropriate to give the Board sufficient time to do that. We are currently trying to arrange the next meeting of the Fans' Forum with the Club with the response as the main (only?) agenda item and this is likely to happen during the w/b 23rd Feb, depending on Richard Murray's availability.
Finally, a brief personal view on Nick Gray. I don't know him, but I have communicated with him regularly. He is passionate about the Club, and he is a true supporter (rarely missing games at home or away). Yes, he has an antagonistic style, but I firmly believe that he acts the way he does because he so bitter about the decline of the Club we all love, and frustrated about our collective inability to do something about it. I do not believe that he has a 'hidden agenda' or that he stirs up trouble for the sake of it.
In a time when all of us need to come together, as we have done in the past, let me suggest that we give people like Nick the benefit of the doubt in terms of their motives, rather than assume the opposite. If that faith is then shown to be misplaced, so be it .......... but, if not, let's try and deal with this mess on a united front. Interestingly, that's what the Fans' Forum communication to the Board has also suggested.
Football is a like a rollercoaster and we are on a big drop right now. Unless you are 1 of the top6 sides in the prem you have good times and bad normally no more than 4/5 seasons at a time. This isnt parkys fault and i would stick by him, things will get better but next season in div1 i will be happy with mid table and to push on from there. I am quite excited about going to some grounds i have never been before. Yes it does hurt but lets have fun at the same time.
I don't know Nick Gray, either. But I can see he cares about Charlton.
It's just plain wrong to call him names like s**t-stirrer and troublemaker and to dismiss his vews as not serious just because one holds a dfferent perspectve on the problems facing our club.
Of course we all have different views because at the moment nobody knows how to help the club out of its current plight. Therefore, the more theories, angles, discussion on the way forward the better. . .
Disagreeing - if it is in the context of a constructive debate and we can avoid the name-calling - is not only inevitable right now , but positively healthy. From it there might eventually evolve a consensus about the way forward - which is why the fan's forum letter is such a good idea.
[cite]Posted By: WelshAddick[/cite]Football is a like a rollercoaster and we are on a big drop right now. Unless you are 1 of the top6 sides in the prem you have good times and bad normally no more than 4/5 seasons at a time. This isnt parkys fault and i would stick by him.
My mate from Merthyr went to the Bristol City game and said we played some good stuff in the first half with Dickson and Kandol working well together and causing problems,but he added we defended too deep at times.It may be too late for this season but we could have a tidy little team for next season.
It's not nice to have a pop at someone just because they have a differing view on the club to your own. I always thought NSS was a miserable so & so but he is just as even more passionate about the club than myself.
Nothing new there, just what we expected like others have said.
I don't like how the board will use "he has a good track record at that level", he managed them for just over 3 years. He has no other experience at that level apart from at Colchester. Must be plenty of young managers that had a good start to their career, went somewhere else and it turned out they were pretty average.
It's like a few years ago saying Pardew or Boothroyd had a good track record at Championship level. Boothroyd especially, he took Watford up after managing them for just over a season. Managers are different to players, can't always judge them as easily after just one a season.
some might argue it was giving the assistants the job that hasn't worked, Pardew being a new broom did arguably improve matters although it was also arguably too late by then.
[cite]Posted By: Salad[/cite]yeah let's just keep changing managers every few months - it has worked wonders in the last three seasons, who needs continuity?!
I know rightly or wrongly you're not a great lover of change Salad, but do you not think there are times when continuity can equally be a hindrance rather than a help ?
[cite]Posted By: razil[/cite]some might argue it was giving the assistants the job that hasn't worked, Pardew being a new broom did arguably improve matters although it was also arguably too late by then.
Pardew was fine in the Prem, made mistakes but we weren't far off staying up. Once we went down he made too many big mistakes. Wasting money on players that never played, getting desperate to break into the top 2 with all the loan signings etc.
results have not gone our way but I think that Parkinson is in an unenviable position and I am not sure anyone else could have got us out of the rut to be honest. The players he has brought in under difficult circumstances generally seem to have been improvements and he has been unlucky with injuries too. I don't think chopping and changing is going to help at all, let's try for some continuity and assuming we go down let's see how he does in reassembling the squad over the summer and start of next season and look forward to seeing more of our young players (don't suppose JJ will still be with us though).
[cite]Posted By: WelshAddick[/cite]Football is a like a rollercoaster and we are on a big drop right now. Unless you are 1 of the top6 sides in the prem you have good times and bad normally no more than 4/5 seasons at a time. This isnt parkys fault and i would stick by him, things will get better but next season in div1 i will be happy with mid table and to push on from there. I am quite excited about going to some grounds i have never been before. Yes it does hurt but lets have fun at the same time.
With all due respect, more than 4/5 bad seasons before the upside returns isn't normal; time spans are not what govern the end of bad times. I witnessed us going down in the late 50's and don't remember much of an upside over the 25 years that followed.
[cite]Posted By: Salad[/cite]yeah let's just keep changing managers every few months - it has worked wonders in the last three seasons, who needs continuity?!
We could keep hiring caretaker managers, state that they will get the permanent job "based on results," and then give it to them anyway, even with no wins in eight matches.
Oh, wait, we have already gone down that road.
How is it working out?
BTW, do you know that big ship, The Titanic, it sinks in the end, oh, and the bible, dont bother reading it, he dies in the end as well (apologies to any Christians who may be reading this)
Comments
1. They feel as if they are making a financial commitment to the club, to help it budget for the season
2. It gets the payment out the way, takes the hassle away from having to buy tickets
3. They don't want to give up the seat they have had for x years.
How many still fall in that category is up for question.
What the real killer for Charlton is that fans are completely out the habit of actually paying for tickets on a match by match basis. The big fear is if they jack in their season ticket, they are unlikely to go regularly again as a pay-by-match customer, largely because 'they can't be bothered' going out of their way to buy tickets.
used to bombard the old Supporters' Director with emails as well
Didn't mean to imply that you were.
I think the board said a lot at the AGM and will answer the Fans Forum letter.
The sniping will not stop regradless because people like Nick will either ignore what is said (as he has with the AGM) or will just dismiss it as lies or spin.
Look at the thread AFKA started here on Wed morning called 'so who is up for the job'...
Parky will still be manager in 18 months even if we're down the bottom of div one because the board are not preprared to spend any money on getting rid of yet another manager. They've appointed four in two and a half years at great cost, only to find none of them can halt the downward spiral.
As Ketman pointed out, nothing is going to change at our club until there is new outside investment. The current board have concluded they have done all they can and they have made it plain that all we can expect from them is a minimal level of damage limitation as we continue to slide. That hopefully means keeping us out of administration but not a great deal more.
I can see only three possible scenarios which mean Parky will not still be here in a year and a half's time regardless of how poor the results are :
a) Another club offers him a better job
b) A rich consortium buys the club
c) Parky resigns.
The first two are so unlikely as not to be worth thinking about.
The third scenario is possible if results continue like this into next season and he has lost the dressing room and the fans and only has the board still backing him for what he wll know are the wrong reasons. Unlike Pardew, I thing he has some vestiges of honour and it is within the realms of possibility that he would do the honourable thing and walk.
Otherwise we're stuck with him so we might as well rally behind the man as best we can. Immedate objectve: ten points from the next five matches, which will at least spare the poor bloke the indignity of having a worse record this season than the 16pts from 18 games whch earned Pardew the sack.
The whole things smacks of an organisation that has lost all hope and interest at the top and it's filtered down to the shop-floor. If rumours are true the board, however culpable, are right - the sooner this season is finished the better.
Okay, let's look at the worst case scenerio.
Presently Parky has 18 months-ish of his present contract to run (remainder of this wretched season and all of next).
So if we do allow ourselves to be relegated, how is Parky going to attract and get the best from a squad of players who'll know his contract is up at the end of that season?
Because surely it won't be renewed/extended if we don't make the necessary impact on Division One next season.
If the Board thought Curbs couldn't manage under those circumstances, do they think that Parky can .... ?
We expect a fairly detailed and well-considered response (not simple one-liners), so we felt it appropriate to give the Board sufficient time to do that. We are currently trying to arrange the next meeting of the Fans' Forum with the Club with the response as the main (only?) agenda item and this is likely to happen during the w/b 23rd Feb, depending on Richard Murray's availability.
Finally, a brief personal view on Nick Gray. I don't know him, but I have communicated with him regularly. He is passionate about the Club, and he is a true supporter (rarely missing games at home or away). Yes, he has an antagonistic style, but I firmly believe that he acts the way he does because he so bitter about the decline of the Club we all love, and frustrated about our collective inability to do something about it. I do not believe that he has a 'hidden agenda' or that he stirs up trouble for the sake of it.
In a time when all of us need to come together, as we have done in the past, let me suggest that we give people like Nick the benefit of the doubt in terms of their motives, rather than assume the opposite. If that faith is then shown to be misplaced, so be it .......... but, if not, let's try and deal with this mess on a united front. Interestingly, that's what the Fans' Forum communication to the Board has also suggested.
I don't know Nick Gray, either. But I can see he cares about Charlton.
It's just plain wrong to call him names like s**t-stirrer and troublemaker and to dismiss his vews as not serious just because one holds a dfferent perspectve on the problems facing our club.
Of course we all have different views because at the moment nobody knows how to help the club out of its current plight. Therefore, the more theories, angles, discussion on the way forward the better. . .
Disagreeing - if it is in the context of a constructive debate and we can avoid the name-calling - is not only inevitable right now , but positively healthy. From it there might eventually evolve a consensus about the way forward - which is why the fan's forum letter is such a good idea.
Keep up the good work, DR.
I didn't call HIM names, I was just wondering whom this person was.
Sorry.
P.
My mate from Merthyr went to the Bristol City game and said we played some good stuff in the first half with Dickson and Kandol working well together and causing problems,but he added we defended too deep at times.It may be too late for this season but we could have a tidy little team for next season.
I don't like how the board will use "he has a good track record at that level", he managed them for just over 3 years. He has no other experience at that level apart from at Colchester. Must be plenty of young managers that had a good start to their career, went somewhere else and it turned out they were pretty average.
It's like a few years ago saying Pardew or Boothroyd had a good track record at Championship level. Boothroyd especially, he took Watford up after managing them for just over a season. Managers are different to players, can't always judge them as easily after just one a season.
I know rightly or wrongly you're not a great lover of change Salad, but do you not think there are times when continuity can equally be a hindrance rather than a help ?
Pardew was fine in the Prem, made mistakes but we weren't far off staying up. Once we went down he made too many big mistakes. Wasting money on players that never played, getting desperate to break into the top 2 with all the loan signings etc.
'To find a fault is easy; to do better may be difficult.'
Thought I'd just add an 'inspirational' quote before ducking............
Plutarch. Don't see her getting quoted on here very often ; - )
Would Ya.... ?
;o)
With all due respect, more than 4/5 bad seasons before the upside returns isn't normal; time spans are not what govern the end of bad times. I witnessed us going down in the late 50's and don't remember much of an upside over the 25 years that followed.
That's all.
;o)
We could keep hiring caretaker managers, state that they will get the permanent job "based on results," and then give it to them anyway, even with no wins in eight matches.
Oh, wait, we have already gone down that road.
How is it working out?