[cite]Posted By: ShootersHillGuru[/cite]I would really like to know what pecentage of Charlton fans would prefer PP to be replaced ? I suspect you are talking about upwards of 80% which would I think be an unprecedented and certainly untenable situation. Interesting times ahead I think.
a) Would it make any difference if the board had these figures?
b) if we believe it would, why don't we organise a poll by covering every turnstile at the next home match?
The only reason for parkinson is financial, The board seemed 'frozen' by the idea of giving 'a new manager' a contract, because the first question they would ask is how much money do I have in the transfer budget!.
If as the chairman claims that we are loosing £5 million a year in the championship, the loss of further revenue from season tickets alone, will add to that, wether 20 players leave the club! all big earners or not!
It is not hindsight, Parkinson is not the answer. As I have posted, along with the vast majority of fans, we needed a manager that could motivate the players, IMO Parkinson has not done that, the record speaks for itself.
Pardew/Parkinson simply backed players who did not produce, for a whole range of reasons. The board need to focus on what is ahead next year, and how they hope to provide a squad that are capable of getting us back into the championship!
That starts with letting Parkinson go, I do not think they will IMO..... but that is where you start. As I stated in the last post I made we never even gambled but we 'lost'.
I hate to be a bad 'winner' of an argument, but I did say this in November on Charlton Live.....amongst other media forums.
I agree with Ken, Parkinson was never the answer. It is such a shame that we have to put up with PP when the reason is purely down to money. If there was any way at all we could have lured Mr Di Canio here that could have helped, also its fair to say that other old chestnut Paul Ince would have added something to the team, he has proven that he doesn't mind getting his hands dirty in the lower reaches of the league and his achievements at Macclesfield and Mk Donalds were genuinely decent (Blackburn was a jump to soon- but for him definately a gamble worth taking at the time), surely some form of keep us up and we'll talk decent contracts in the summer could have been discussed, he is definately a leader of men and a figure who would have players respect -given what he has achieved in the game. Money is/was obviously a sticking point but it's fair to say we would all probably rather spend the dwindling resources on a manager capable of getting more out of the players than yet more clueless loans which (with a couple of notable exceptions) have been a thorough waste of time and money.
If we accept we are down and at the season's end many players will depart, i don't see the point of sacking Parky now.
As soon as the season is over we need to get rid and look for a new manager. Let him build his own squad and start all over, yet again
My preference would be Paul Ince.
'As soon as the season is over we need to get rid and look for a new manager. Let him build his own squad and start all over, yet again My preference would be Paul Ince.'
This is exactly the reason why the new manager needs to come NOW....... give them time to evaluate who 'he' wants to keep, identify the targets he needs, and get rid of the deadwood.
So when he prepares for the freindlies, he knows who is his team, but can use these games as to where he plays his key players.i.e. who is captain, where is best for jonjoe, who are the favoured strike pairing, who is the centrehalf. .....
You do this now, not make your mind up mid September, introduce 3 new players and fiddle all season......
No point in playing loanees, and end of contract players from now on, unless you intend signing them!
[cite]Posted By: ken from bexley[/cite]'As soon as the season is over we need to get rid and look for a new manager. Let him build his own squad and start all over, yet again
My preference would be Paul Ince.'
This is exactly the reason why the new manager needs to come NOW....... give them time to evaluate who 'he' wants to keep, identify the targets he needs, and get rid of the deadwood.
So when he prepares for the freindlies, he knows who is his team, but can use these games as to where he plays his key players.i.e. who is captain, where is best for jonjoe, who are the favoured strike pairing, who is the centrehalf. .....
You do this now, not make your mind up mid September, introduce 3 new players and fiddle all season......
No point in playing loanees, and end of contract players from now on, unless you intend signing them!
Paul Ince...... fine with me...
The problem with that Ken is; which players stay and which depart will most likely be the decision of the board not Parky or any potential new manager.
Though hopefully a new man will be given some leeway regarding transfers in.
Perhaps Daggs that is one of the problems of Charlton....... are the board are deciding who is sold and bought!,should they not be advising the manager or working in partnership with him. And yet they do not seem to want a couple of non executive directors.ie. like Chris Powell, and Mark Bright who have a good working knowledge of todays game, and contacts to be considered. Exactly what are there qualifications for footballing matters!
My understanding was that they were rich supporters, who had bought shares and ran other businesses, quite what there footballing c/v is I would be interested to know, after all is not the lament that they are 'supporters too' they really cannot have it both ways. I appreciate it is there money,( albeit often leant at a decent interest rate.) But again as I stated on Charlton live 20 minutes ago' only Richard Murray can give the exact financial position of the club, we can just speculate, and until he is does this on who goes who comes etc. But he can give a clear statement of intent.
As I have just said on 'Charlton Live' Parkinson is NOT the answer, his record at Charlton is simply not good enough to put it kindly. Wether it be Boothroyd, Ince, or Di Canneo, he needs to be onboard now as previously posted for those reasons.
the other reasons are stability and continuity, and thinking that with proper time and opportunity he can build a squad that will do well. I definitely agree that finances come into it but money is not the only factor to consider.
[cite]Posted By: bigstemarra[/cite]We need to start the planning for next season now.
i can't believe that the board and parky and his staff aren't already doing this
[quote]The only reason for parkinson is financial[/quote]..... Yes that is what I said..... what has been Parkinsons contribution to date 2 wins!, Like Brian Clough I wish it was not about money, but I am afraid that football today is big business, ask the fellow strugglers in the prem division.
Otherwise why I we still chasing a financial backer like most clubs, like Zabel.... If Richard Branson wades in with £50 million and a business consortium I think you might find a few directors very happy to sell..... unfortunatly I do not think he will be though!
i agreed that money came into the decision about parky's future and i know football is about money and that we want a new owner. That doesn't mean we're keeping parkinson only because he's cheap.
It seems to me that the board think parky can do a decent job given the chance to build a squad and that they think we need stability. I'm sure they see that him not being too expensive is a benefit, but if they thought he was hopeless they would have sacked him.
What about Waggott and his Matrix thing - if there was such an interference that is it - these days sometimes I feel I am living in a Matrix environment (the film) - where's the next pixels coming from....
I take your comments BBClaus , my point is that is the problem with the present board... they do not see him as 'useless' not my words by the way...... I just think he is the wrong man for the job that is all, I understand that you think we should stay with him for. 'stability and continuity, and thinking that with proper time and opportunity he can build a squad that will do well'.... My worry is that having spent 50 years of sweet FA with Charlton up until the playoffs, I do not have another 50 years left in me to wait and rebuild a team, and hope the manager comes 'good' if a week is a long time in politics, then a season, or more in the first division certainly is..... thats my problem, been there, done that, and still have the 67 football shirt ( 4 sizes too small now) to wear.!
i know what you mean, ken. i was just saying really that it isn't only a financial thing. I can't even decide whether i think parky is the right man but i think there are football reasons to keep him. when you look at his results on the field alone then i can see why many want him gone. for me though it's a tough decision that i'm really glad i don't have to make!
[cite]Posted By: ken from bexley[/cite]I take your comments BBClaus , my point is that is the problem with the present board... they do not see him as 'useless' not my words by the way...... I just think he is the wrong man for the job that is all,
I understand that you think we should stay with him for. 'stability and continuity, and thinking that with proper time and opportunity he can build a squad that will do well'....
My worry is that having spent 50 years of sweet FA with Charlton up until the playoffs, I do not have another 50 years left in me to wait and rebuild a team, and hope the manager comes 'good'
if a week is a long time in politics, then a season, or more in the first division certainly is..... thats my problem, been there, done that, and still have the 67 football shirt ( 4 sizes too small now) to wear.!
Thats exactly what Murray tried to do. He tried to give you more Prem football post Curbs. But it really wasnt sustainable without a big dollop of luck and a lot more money than he and his fellow directors had. Murray and colleagues gave you (and me) a Charlton experience I never dreamed of as a kid. You (and I) were lucky to have been there and done that. Charlton fans now departed of the 50s/60s/70s era never had that.
And murray and the board have been praised, rightly at the time when they did so, we were the tenplate for all clubs in the football league to aspire to....... that is the tragedy , and I agree with you my parents and grandfather have supported the club since before the second world war, I remember the big crowds and the big stadium of the 50s, I went to Sherrington school in the late 50s and wore my Charlton shirt in Charlton park, when all me mates wore West Ham, and Arsenal, My sons went to the Play off final at Wembley when they were kids, and my worry is that my grandchildren will not experience what we had and what we have lost!. Perhaps I look at it differently but four years ago there was not a team I did not think we could not beat!....... Now I worry there is a team we can beat, and I do mean any!. I think I am loosing my religion, and I do not mean christianity
Thanks for the comment peanutman..... Interesting that Wigan, Fulham and Man city all have /had big backers behind them, and Leeds has Ken Bates and his millions. The Man city saga has always been bizzare, how they slipped was amazing, people often cite Wednesday and Leeds but they like MK Dons were right up there. Wolves seem to be at long last getting there, although they seem to have been the team for the past 15 years that were going to do it. As you say desperatly sad.....
i said as soon as pards went that paul ince was the man for the job, thought his record as a player alone would shake it up a bit, and getting such a big name would surely have lifted the squad at least for a shrt time?anyways i think we can forget that now...once in the prem i doubt hed want to go to div3, champiosnhip maybe but not the dreaded div3.
[cite]Posted By: Shrew[/cite]I wonder if some of our better players are more likely to stay at Charlton with Parky as boss or with a new manager ?
I can't see who the mananger is will make much difference to say Bailey when a decent Championship side, a relegated Prem side, or a side promoted to the Prem come in for him, he'll want to go and who can blame him. He left Southend to better himself and finds himself back in the same division. From Saturdays starters I can only see Youga and Elliott definately remaining. Even Racon and Shelvey may be tempted away although I think JJ will stay. Racon will have suitors I have no doubt. Everyone else is a loanee, out of contract, or will need to go due to high wages (Hudson). With such a massive turnaround the agrguement for Parky to stay as he knows the players doesn't hold water.
I don't really think it matters anymore what Parky may or may not do. It is now obvious to me that if the board wants fans to pledge themselves to getting season tickets, then a complete clear out is required. Fans need a sense of hope and going for 'stability' by keeping the status quo isn't, IMO, going to do that. Whether we end up with anything better is questionable but the choice seems to be, gamble and keep the fans or gamble and lose them.
Before tonights match Parky said: "The League Cup will be won by a 3rd division side this year and I see no reason why it should be Charlton."
I don't think Curbs could have put it better himself......
Comments
a) Would it make any difference if the board had these figures?
b) if we believe it would, why don't we organise a poll by covering every turnstile at the next home match?
If as the chairman claims that we are loosing £5 million a year in the championship, the loss of further revenue from season tickets alone, will add to that, wether 20 players leave the club! all big earners or not!
It is not hindsight, Parkinson is not the answer. As I have posted, along with the vast majority of fans, we needed a manager that could motivate the players, IMO Parkinson has not done that, the record speaks for itself.
Pardew/Parkinson simply backed players who did not produce, for a whole range of reasons. The board need to focus on what is ahead next year, and how they hope to provide a squad that are capable of getting us back into the championship!
That starts with letting Parkinson go, I do not think they will IMO..... but that is where you start. As I stated in the last post I made we never even gambled but we 'lost'.
I hate to be a bad 'winner' of an argument, but I did say this in November on Charlton Live.....amongst other media forums.
As soon as the season is over we need to get rid and look for a new manager. Let him build his own squad and start all over, yet again
My preference would be Paul Ince.
My preference would be Paul Ince.'
This is exactly the reason why the new manager needs to come NOW....... give them time to evaluate who 'he' wants to keep, identify the targets he needs, and get rid of the deadwood.
So when he prepares for the freindlies, he knows who is his team, but can use these games as to where he plays his key players.i.e. who is captain, where is best for jonjoe, who are the favoured strike pairing, who is the centrehalf. .....
You do this now, not make your mind up mid September, introduce 3 new players and fiddle all season......
No point in playing loanees, and end of contract players from now on, unless you intend signing them!
Paul Ince...... fine with me...
We need to start the planning for next season now.
The problem with that Ken is; which players stay and which depart will most likely be the decision of the board not Parky or any potential new manager.
Though hopefully a new man will be given some leeway regarding transfers in.
And yet they do not seem to want a couple of non executive directors.ie. like Chris Powell, and Mark Bright who have a good working knowledge of todays game, and contacts to be considered.
Exactly what are there qualifications for footballing matters!
My understanding was that they were rich supporters, who had bought shares and ran other businesses, quite what there footballing c/v is I would be interested to know, after all is not the lament that they are 'supporters too' they really cannot have it both ways. I appreciate it is there money,( albeit often leant at a decent interest rate.) But again as I stated on Charlton live 20 minutes ago' only Richard Murray can give the exact financial position of the club, we can just speculate, and until he is does this on who goes who comes etc. But he can give a clear statement of intent.
As I have just said on 'Charlton Live' Parkinson is NOT the answer, his record at Charlton is simply not good enough to put it kindly. Wether it be Boothroyd, Ince, or Di Canneo, he needs to be onboard now as previously posted for those reasons.
the other reasons are stability and continuity, and thinking that with proper time and opportunity he can build a squad that will do well. I definitely agree that finances come into it but money is not the only factor to consider.
i can't believe that the board and parky and his staff aren't already doing this
Yes that is what I said..... what has been Parkinsons contribution to date 2 wins!, Like Brian Clough I wish it was not about money, but I am afraid that football today is big business, ask the fellow strugglers in the prem division.
Otherwise why I we still chasing a financial backer like most clubs, like Zabel.... If Richard Branson wades in with £50 million and a business consortium I think you might find a few directors very happy to sell.....
unfortunatly I do not think he will be though!
It seems to me that the board think parky can do a decent job given the chance to build a squad and that they think we need stability. I'm sure they see that him not being too expensive is a benefit, but if they thought he was hopeless they would have sacked him.
I understand that you think we should stay with him for. 'stability and continuity, and thinking that with proper time and opportunity he can build a squad that will do well'....
My worry is that having spent 50 years of sweet FA with Charlton up until the playoffs, I do not have another 50 years left in me to wait and rebuild a team, and hope the manager comes 'good'
if a week is a long time in politics, then a season, or more in the first division certainly is..... thats my problem, been there, done that, and still have the 67 football shirt ( 4 sizes too small now) to wear.!
Thats exactly what Murray tried to do. He tried to give you more Prem football post Curbs. But it really wasnt sustainable without a big dollop of luck and a lot more money than he and his fellow directors had. Murray and colleagues gave you (and me) a Charlton experience I never dreamed of as a kid. You (and I) were lucky to have been there and done that. Charlton fans now departed of the 50s/60s/70s era never had that.
Now I worry there is a team we can beat, and I do mean any!. I think I am loosing my religion, and I do not mean christianity
I hate to compare us with MK Dons but that was another ex South London club without security of a ground.
And you never know we could be playing Leeds and Notts Forest next season both with Champs League/Cup pedigrees.
Its desperately sad but not completely the end of the world.
The Man city saga has always been bizzare, how they slipped was amazing, people often cite Wednesday and Leeds but they like MK Dons were right up there.
Wolves seem to be at long last getting there, although they seem to have been the team for the past 15 years that were going to do it.
As you say desperatly sad.....
I can't see who the mananger is will make much difference to say Bailey when a decent Championship side, a relegated Prem side, or a side promoted to the Prem come in for him, he'll want to go and who can blame him. He left Southend to better himself and finds himself back in the same division. From Saturdays starters I can only see Youga and Elliott definately remaining. Even Racon and Shelvey may be tempted away although I think JJ will stay. Racon will have suitors I have no doubt. Everyone else is a loanee, out of contract, or will need to go due to high wages (Hudson). With such a massive turnaround the agrguement for Parky to stay as he knows the players doesn't hold water.
ALL OF YOU, OUT!
Breacker Out!
I don't think Curbs could have put it better himself......
Too bloody right!