AFKA without disagreeing completely - couldn't you equally say the same thing about the 'ousting' of Pards, we don't really know what goes on, doesn't stop us forming ideas and opinions though.
Like Mortimerician, I agree with about 60-70 per cent of your post, AFKA - certainly the parts about hysteria and slagging off-players. But I agreed far more with your passionate plea for Curbishley's return and some of what you say here is at best debateable.
For example, I don't want to know how the players perform day-to-day in training and I don't care. But that doesn't disqualify me or anyone else from having a valid point of view based on what we see on the pitch - where it really counts.
I remember watching Ian Botham in the nets in 1981 and he couldn't time a single ball. Then he went out into the middle and won us the Ashes. I admit if it had been me, based on what I saw in the nets I'd have dropped him!!! What players do in the nets or on the training ground is irrelevant. That's why the Dickson scenario is ridiculous. Wherever he's been, he's never NOT scored goals in the middle, as far as I can make out. Yet he's not given a chance "at this level" (whatever that means in Charlton's current plight!) because he doesn't look the business in training?
I'm holding fire on Parky's future until Sat and hoping for three points, of course. But I can't help this nagging feeling we're going to scrape a point (or worse) and then lose away at Blackpool.
If my nightmares come true that will be one or two points from 18 in the six matches since the critical moment was misssed following the Barnsley game when many of us, including you AFKA, felt that both Pardew and Parky should have gone and a new broom come in to sweep out the Augean stables.
You can accuse people of being impatient. But they're right to be so because the sands in the hourglass are slipping away with every match. Let's halt the rot on Saturday. If we lose... well I dread to think.
And I don't want to be accused of hysteria, but for what it is worth, today's two loan signings do not ease my trepidation and the idea of seven loanees in the squad is frankly risible. IMO, the league rules that even allow it should be changed.
[cite]Posted By: AFKABartram[/cite]
This would be Phil's third management job, and he has been managing since 2003. He is neither an expensive appointment nor is he completely wet behind the ears. What the (few) of us at QPR saw on Tuesday was an encouraging improvement on what we have seen in the last couple of months, even if the results went against us.
I was impressed he was ruthless enough to say he wants it when his boss has just got the boot, I was impressed with the way he wasn't afraid to change the team around, i agreed with his subs when he made them, i've agreed with everything he has said since being made caretaker, and more than anything, i sense he really wants this job..
Spot on Smudge. I don't often get to aways anymore but Tuesday went a long way to convincing me that I should make more of an effort.
There could not have been more than 700 of us there (even out of a 12k crowd that is a shockingly small minority for a local derby against one of our relegation rivals) however everyone of that number were CAFC through and through and they proved it by outsinging, out supporting and generally outdoing the QPR fans from start to finish.
I don't care what others have said on various threads but IN MY OPINION the support given to Parky and the lads on Tuesday had a positive effect on the team and it's performance.
Yes we lost, and we lost again to schoolboy errors at the back but to really appreciate what went on you really just had to be there (Ledge I promise this is not a dig). What we saw was a team with a plan who after a nervous/ish start and a dodgy spell second half, stuck to the task and basically outplayed the oppo. On another day we could have won that game comfortably but on reflection the only positive I took away from Loftus Road was that the entire squad proved they had the cojones for a fight and that heads did not drop. in fact the second goal probably preceded our best spell of play and had our "main man" had a little more confidence in front of goal it would have been avery different night.
In any event what I am trying to say is simply this, if 700 can do it on a freezing Tuesday in West London there is no reason why 18,000 can't do it at 3.00 pm Saturday at Home. In the words of the sainted Delia, "Let's be ' avin' yer". Get behind the team and don't be afraid to name, shame and generally get in the faces of any a**ehole around you who is not giving 100% support and commitment.
That's what we expect from the team and frankly if they go out with the right stuff and prove that they care, they have every right to expect the same from us.
Great shout AFKA, I am fed up of all the negativity on here, I thought it would lift when Pards was sacked but if anything it has deepened and people are having a great old moan about anything.
We should all be getting behing Parky and giving him plenty of time to prove his mettle.
I thought the team was much better on Tuesday. QPR were pretty poor for most of the game and gave us space, most teams have not. Unlucky not to get at least a point.
I would say that he 200 Charlton fans made themselves heard.
I don't care who comes in or how good they are as long as they care about this football club and its fans and prove it by giving everything on the pitch. We are in a fight now and to get out of it we need fighters in the old cafc never say die mind set.
Perhaps i didn't word certain aspects of my opening post correctly.
Of course everyone is entitled to air their own opinion, that's the whole nature of forums such as this and it would be a shame and unjust if people didn't think they were able to. Just wanted to clear that point up.
My point about judging was based on the fact that we rightly make all our judgements on what we see in matches, but additionally don't know what goes on behind the scenes that may impact on overall team morale or individual circumstances that may have led to some losing form.
Its clear we don't have two brass farthings to rub together at present. We really do need it to work with this guy otherwise our next move bringing in a new manager would weigh deeper on our debts.
Give him a chance the next couple of games, that's all i say.
[cite]Posted By: AFKABartram[/cite]Ok Large, lets put it another way.
New man comes in tomorrow, cannot sign a single player till January. Talk about fresh face etc having an impact, do you really think with the inability to bring in a single player he wants, or outs a single player he didn't, it would have that much more impact ?
What would happen then in 6 games we do that and nothing has changed. We would have played every single card we had with over 5 months to the end of the season.
Parky clearly disagreed with Pardew on certain things, which is why in one game he ripped up the right hand side and centre midfield of the team. he is clearly going into this as a new man, exactly the same as any other 'fresh face' would do.
Giving Parky the short-term is the sensible approach. If it fails to make an impact, then we can play our final card in getting a new man in. Our finances mean we can't be cavalier about this.
Redknapp seemed to do ok and he hasn't been able to out a single player or bring any in. A new man would have fresh ideas and may give the players a lift. Parky been there 18 months and has been coaching them everyday. Now siurely he was brought in as he has the same philosophy as Pards and could work with him. If he disagreed with most things Pards did but still did as he was told knowing he'd get some of the blame then more fool him. He goona get the job now though as people like Allydyce are not going to touch it with a barge pole and those that will, Holloway, Allen etc we don't want. I'm not particularly please either that by ripping up the right hand side he has brought back in Cranie and dropped Moo2 but hey-ho I'll just accept it and keep stchum and everyone will be happy.
I think some people just need something to be negative about - it's something I keep banging on about, but I'm convinced football has become a lightning rod for people's general pissed-offness at the moment.
[cite]Posted By: AFKABartram[/cite]Ok Large, lets put it another way.
New man comes in tomorrow, cannot sign a single player till January. Talk about fresh face etc having an impact, do you really think with the inability to bring in a single player he wants, or outs a single player he didn't, it would have that much more impact ?
What would happen then in 6 games we do that and nothing has changed. We would have played every single card we had with over 5 months to the end of the season.
Parky clearly disagreed with Pardew on certain things, which is why in one game he ripped up the right hand side and centre midfield of the team. he is clearly going into this as a new man, exactly the same as any other 'fresh face' would do.
Giving Parky the short-term is the sensible approach. If it fails to make an impact, then we can play our final card in getting a new man in. Our finances mean we can't be cavalier about this.
Redknapp seemed to do ok and he hasn't been able to out a single player or bring any in. A new man would have fresh ideas and may give the players a lift. Parky been there 18 months and has been coaching them everyday. Now siurely he was brought in as he has the same philosophy as Pards and could work with him. If he disagreed with most things Pards did but still did as he was told knowing he'd get some of the blame then more fool him. He goona get the job now though as people like Allydyce are not going to touch it with a barge pole and those that will, Holloway, Allen etc we don't want. I'm not particularly please either that by ripping up the right hand side he has brought back in Cranie and dropped Moo2 but hey-ho I'll just accept it and keep stchum and everyone will be happy.
redknapp was brand new to the team and as much as I don't like spurs, he had decent players to work with than we do at charlton - not saying they are rubbish - but if they were that good they'd have been snapped up a long time ago - we shouldn't be comparing ourselves with spurs - maybe thats where the expectation is wrong!?!? we should be comparing ourselves with other champ clubs who have changed their managers recently. not a prem club that hasn't had it tough in a very long time.
Sorry - I'm confused. Is this the same AFKA who only a few days' ago posted an article clearly articulating why we needed Curbishley to the end of the season?
I'm completely losing track of what attitude I'm meant to have at the moment... ;-)
[cite]Posted By: Weegie Addick[/cite]Sorry - I'm confused. Is this the same AFKA who only a few days' ago posted an article clearly articulating why we needed Curbishley to the end of the season?
I'm completely losing track of what attitude I'm meant to have at the moment... ;-)
to be honest I'm sitting here and I'm gutted at how far we have fallen in such a short space of time.
[quote][cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite][quote][cite]Posted By: Weegie Addick[/cite]Sorry - I'm confused. Is this the same AFKA who only a few days' ago posted an article clearly articulating why we needed Curbishley to the end of the season?
I'm completely losing track of what attitude I'm meant to have at the moment... ;-)[/quote]
to be honest I'm sitting here and I'm gutted at how far we have fallen in such a short space of time.[/quote]
Survive or go down, what are we gonna be left with when all loans are gone? Its hard to be anything but Grimm at the moment but Im gonna try.
[cite]Posted By: Weegie Addick[/cite]Sorry - I'm confused. Is this the same AFKA who only a few days' ago posted an article clearly articulating why we needed Curbishley to the end of the season?
I'm completely losing track of what attitude I'm meant to have at the moment... ;-)
You can only write what you think at the time, and as soon as you press 'publish' you put yourself up there to be shot at.
When i wrote that on Sunday, it was what my initial reaction of what i thought was best for the current situation. I still feel Curbs on a 6-month deal could be mutually beneficial, and would be far beneficial than the vast majority of the names that have been banded about
But the few days that have followed has led me to perhaps hold fire on that view a little. Parkinson i feel is proving to me at least that he is a stronger candidate than i may originally have considered. Of course he knows full well he will be rightly or wrongly judged on short-term results, but it would certainly be in everyone's best interests if it works out with him.
can't people that didn't go on tuesday (no dig at anyone) just wait and see for themselves what parky is trying to serve up?
i have never owned a pair of rose tinteds, i like to think i'm a realist and this has meant me being a doom and gloom merchant for quite a while. but what i saw from the front 6 on tuesday i took as a positive, something that i haven't been able to do for a long time.
ok, the defence needs working on, but i also see fortune coming back into the team and a replacement for youga coming to the club as 2 more positives.
club finances dictate that someone has to go to pay for pards comp. for me, the out-of-form varney going was a no-brainer. zz will be in a position to negotiate a decent signing on fee in jan (for a freebie in the summer), we need to keep semedo, fortune and dare i say it gray. the only other way out would be sell shelvey, and we dont want that. no one else would command the monies touted about that we need to pay off pards.
right, i'm off to pray we play on saturday, the football we showed we're capable of on tuesday.
***listens to the clicking of people bookmarkiing this to ram it down my throat on sat evening****
people should hold tight (afka - how about shutting the site for 3 days until our next game?!?!) and wait and see what happens instead of pre-judging what could happen with these players that haven't even paid the toll on the M6 yet.
[cite]Posted By: suzisausage[/cite]good post baconsarnie.
people should hold tight (afka - how about shutting the site for 3 days until our next game?!?!) and wait and see what happens instead of pre-judging what could happen with these players that haven't even paid the toll on the M6 yet.
do you not actually have to 'sign' these days ? Can you just send a text to the FL saying 'yeah, why not, can't stand Brian Laws anyway'.
I hate to big up AFKA as his ego is far too inflated as it is but he talk heap big sense : - )
Tainted is such a loaded word. Should the sins of the father be visited upon the son or should Parky to called to account for his own failings?
Why do we have to rush to judgement on Parky, new players etc. Can we not consider some more real evidence before making up our minds.
And wanting the team to lose to justify a dislike for one man. Gobsmacking!
He's a caretaker. If he care takes well he may get the job but while the club take a decent amount of time (that means a bit more than 4 working days) to make a huge, huge decision and before the window opens he is there to do a job.
Jury deffo out on Parky, he will I've no doubt be given a chance, however in football as we all know sometimes no matter what the talent of an incumbent if they've been no2 in the previous regime they are ultimately tainted whether it be rightly or wrongly so, and as such will not be able to halt the slide for whatever reasons. If Parky had been brought in from outside to replace Pards it might be entirely different.
I hope I'm wrong but I feel in this kind of scenario more often than not it takes a completely new broom to sweep away the cobwebs.
More interesting to me would be is there really a plan B (or should it be plan C) if Parky fails can we even afford to sack him, or even bring another coach in on any decent contract? and what established manager in their right mind would take the job in these dire financial straits??
Good luckto him indeed. I hope he can turn it around in a short space of time but have my doubts. Mad amount of loan singings. . . . . but with Parky quotating about getting a balance within the team/squad at least the thought process regarding team balance is heading the right way/
Hands up who thought we'd be in the bottom three and signing Deon Burton before December?
Hope Alan's enjoying his, well paid for, holiday. So much to answer for. . . .
The fact that Parky's brought 3 loans in this week surely emphasises that he recognised there were serious weaknesses positionally in the squad.
And remember he only had 4 days (until the loan window shut today) to manouvre - or persist with a right winger who couldn't cross, a striker who couldn't score and a left back that couldn't defend.
I actually think that considering the dire financial situation we find ourselves in we are bloody lucky to have a ready made potential up and coming manager already contracted to the club who knows all the players a lot better than a new manager would and we dont even have to offer to pay off someones contract.
Comments
blinding answer
For example, I don't want to know how the players perform day-to-day in training and I don't care. But that doesn't disqualify me or anyone else from having a valid point of view based on what we see on the pitch - where it really counts.
I remember watching Ian Botham in the nets in 1981 and he couldn't time a single ball. Then he went out into the middle and won us the Ashes. I admit if it had been me, based on what I saw in the nets I'd have dropped him!!! What players do in the nets or on the training ground is irrelevant. That's why the Dickson scenario is ridiculous. Wherever he's been, he's never NOT scored goals in the middle, as far as I can make out. Yet he's not given a chance "at this level" (whatever that means in Charlton's current plight!) because he doesn't look the business in training?
I'm holding fire on Parky's future until Sat and hoping for three points, of course. But I can't help this nagging feeling we're going to scrape a point (or worse) and then lose away at Blackpool.
If my nightmares come true that will be one or two points from 18 in the six matches since the critical moment was misssed following the Barnsley game when many of us, including you AFKA, felt that both Pardew and Parky should have gone and a new broom come in to sweep out the Augean stables.
You can accuse people of being impatient. But they're right to be so because the sands in the hourglass are slipping away with every match. Let's halt the rot on Saturday. If we lose... well I dread to think.
And I don't want to be accused of hysteria, but for what it is worth, today's two loan signings do not ease my trepidation and the idea of seven loanees in the squad is frankly risible. IMO, the league rules that even allow it should be changed.
Spot on Smudge. I don't often get to aways anymore but Tuesday went a long way to convincing me that I should make more of an effort.
There could not have been more than 700 of us there (even out of a 12k crowd that is a shockingly small minority for a local derby against one of our relegation rivals) however everyone of that number were CAFC through and through and they proved it by outsinging, out supporting and generally outdoing the QPR fans from start to finish.
I don't care what others have said on various threads but IN MY OPINION the support given to Parky and the lads on Tuesday had a positive effect on the team and it's performance.
Yes we lost, and we lost again to schoolboy errors at the back but to really appreciate what went on you really just had to be there (Ledge I promise this is not a dig). What we saw was a team with a plan who after a nervous/ish start and a dodgy spell second half, stuck to the task and basically outplayed the oppo. On another day we could have won that game comfortably but on reflection the only positive I took away from Loftus Road was that the entire squad proved they had the cojones for a fight and that heads did not drop. in fact the second goal probably preceded our best spell of play and had our "main man" had a little more confidence in front of goal it would have been avery different night.
In any event what I am trying to say is simply this, if 700 can do it on a freezing Tuesday in West London there is no reason why 18,000 can't do it at 3.00 pm Saturday at Home. In the words of the sainted Delia, "Let's be ' avin' yer". Get behind the team and don't be afraid to name, shame and generally get in the faces of any a**ehole around you who is not giving 100% support and commitment.
That's what we expect from the team and frankly if they go out with the right stuff and prove that they care, they have every right to expect the same from us.
Rant over
Whether it would be the best thing for CAFC, only time will tell
We should all be getting behing Parky and giving him plenty of time to prove his mettle.
I thought the team was much better on Tuesday. QPR were pretty poor for most of the game and gave us space, most teams have not. Unlucky not to get at least a point.
I would say that he 200 Charlton fans made themselves heard.
Of course everyone is entitled to air their own opinion, that's the whole nature of forums such as this and it would be a shame and unjust if people didn't think they were able to. Just wanted to clear that point up.
My point about judging was based on the fact that we rightly make all our judgements on what we see in matches, but additionally don't know what goes on behind the scenes that may impact on overall team morale or individual circumstances that may have led to some losing form.
Its clear we don't have two brass farthings to rub together at present. We really do need it to work with this guy otherwise our next move bringing in a new manager would weigh deeper on our debts.
Give him a chance the next couple of games, that's all i say.
Redknapp seemed to do ok and he hasn't been able to out a single player or bring any in. A new man would have fresh ideas and may give the players a lift. Parky been there 18 months and has been coaching them everyday. Now siurely he was brought in as he has the same philosophy as Pards and could work with him. If he disagreed with most things Pards did but still did as he was told knowing he'd get some of the blame then more fool him. He goona get the job now though as people like Allydyce are not going to touch it with a barge pole and those that will, Holloway, Allen etc we don't want. I'm not particularly please either that by ripping up the right hand side he has brought back in Cranie and dropped Moo2 but hey-ho I'll just accept it and keep stchum and everyone will be happy.
I think some people just need something to be negative about - it's something I keep banging on about, but I'm convinced football has become a lightning rod for people's general pissed-offness at the moment.
I liked Luke, and good luck to him at Derby, don't think he ever settled in London, and that was the problem
redknapp was brand new to the team and as much as I don't like spurs, he had decent players to work with than we do at charlton - not saying they are rubbish - but if they were that good they'd have been snapped up a long time ago - we shouldn't be comparing ourselves with spurs - maybe thats where the expectation is wrong!?!? we should be comparing ourselves with other champ clubs who have changed their managers recently. not a prem club that hasn't had it tough in a very long time.
I'm completely losing track of what attitude I'm meant to have at the moment... ;-)
to be honest I'm sitting here and I'm gutted at how far we have fallen in such a short space of time.
I'm completely losing track of what attitude I'm meant to have at the moment... ;-)[/quote]
to be honest I'm sitting here and I'm gutted at how far we have fallen in such a short space of time.[/quote]
Survive or go down, what are we gonna be left with when all loans are gone? Its hard to be anything but Grimm at the moment but Im gonna try.
You can only write what you think at the time, and as soon as you press 'publish' you put yourself up there to be shot at.
When i wrote that on Sunday, it was what my initial reaction of what i thought was best for the current situation. I still feel Curbs on a 6-month deal could be mutually beneficial, and would be far beneficial than the vast majority of the names that have been banded about
But the few days that have followed has led me to perhaps hold fire on that view a little. Parkinson i feel is proving to me at least that he is a stronger candidate than i may originally have considered. Of course he knows full well he will be rightly or wrongly judged on short-term results, but it would certainly be in everyone's best interests if it works out with him.
i have never owned a pair of rose tinteds, i like to think i'm a realist and this has meant me being a doom and gloom merchant for quite a while. but what i saw from the front 6 on tuesday i took as a positive, something that i haven't been able to do for a long time.
ok, the defence needs working on, but i also see fortune coming back into the team and a replacement for youga coming to the club as 2 more positives.
club finances dictate that someone has to go to pay for pards comp. for me, the out-of-form varney going was a no-brainer. zz will be in a position to negotiate a decent signing on fee in jan (for a freebie in the summer), we need to keep semedo, fortune and dare i say it gray. the only other way out would be sell shelvey, and we dont want that. no one else would command the monies touted about that we need to pay off pards.
right, i'm off to pray we play on saturday, the football we showed we're capable of on tuesday.
***listens to the clicking of people bookmarkiing this to ram it down my throat on sat evening****
people should hold tight (afka - how about shutting the site for 3 days until our next game?!?!) and wait and see what happens instead of pre-judging what could happen with these players that haven't even paid the toll on the M6 yet.
do you not actually have to 'sign' these days ? Can you just send a text to the FL saying 'yeah, why not, can't stand Brian Laws anyway'.
Tainted is such a loaded word. Should the sins of the father be visited upon the son or should Parky to called to account for his own failings?
Why do we have to rush to judgement on Parky, new players etc. Can we not consider some more real evidence before making up our minds.
And wanting the team to lose to justify a dislike for one man. Gobsmacking!
He's a caretaker. If he care takes well he may get the job but while the club take a decent amount of time (that means a bit more than 4 working days) to make a huge, huge decision and before the window opens he is there to do a job.
Good luck to him.
Up the Addicks
I hope I'm wrong but I feel in this kind of scenario more often than not it takes a completely new broom to sweep away the cobwebs.
More interesting to me would be is there really a plan B (or should it be plan C) if Parky fails can we even afford to sack him, or even bring another coach in on any decent contract? and what established manager in their right mind would take the job in these dire financial straits??
Hands up who thought we'd be in the bottom three and signing Deon Burton before December?
Hope Alan's enjoying his, well paid for, holiday. So much to answer for. . . .
And remember he only had 4 days (until the loan window shut today) to manouvre - or persist with a right winger who couldn't cross, a striker who couldn't score and a left back that couldn't defend.
What would you have done?