Blame Culture

suzisausage

Why do we as human beings have to have someone to blame for everything? just one person fully takes responsiblity for things not a collective group?

charlton related - the team are underperforming for the wages they get paid to do their job, they lose games they should win, people blame pardew. Now the team are playing with a bit more spirit, the pressure is slightly off pardew as people have found some sympathy and because someone else may have made a mistake although have probably saved us a few goals/points in the past few games he's now the scapegoat.

non charlton related examples - Baby P - horrific that it has happened, by why do newspapers show a picture of the Shoesmith lady at the races and put the caption under neath "shoesmith enjoying a day at the races just 3 months after baby p died" I know someone should seriously look into what happened, but half of the public would be happy if she lost her job and the media would end their campaign.

another - ross/brand - i know its been done to death on here - but that furor went away as quickly as it appeared as soon as 2 people quit and one person was suspended. the public dust off their hands and move on to the next public campaign they can turn their hands to.

now, i know the media have a lot to answer for, but charlton fans (and probably football fans in general) are very quick to do the same? Why do we have to keep pushing and pushing for someone to take the blame for it or lose their jobs? why can't people accept that a collection of different factors is possibly the reason why the team aren't at the top of the table? the calls to drop weaver are frankly laughable - so he made a couple of howlers - he's also saved us on a few occasions when we were hanging on for a point and was let down by our defenders. think yourselves lucky he's not Gomes!

InspectorSands

My own theory is that people are increasingly unwilling to take responsibility for their own actions - like car drivers moaning about speed cameras catching them doing 45mph in a 30mph zone.

Maybe they don't feel that the good little things they can do can change things for the better - but they'd be wrong.

Henry Irving

Because it is easy.

Most problems/situations/issues be it football, political or social are very complicated and have a number of different factors that impact on them. Lots of shades of grey (that's not a did at Andy BTW) but it is easier to be black or white and blame one person or one group of people.

suzisausage

Good point inspector - totally agree - example "hating traffic wardens" erm....why? I've never come into contact with one, but then again, i haven't parked in the wrong place!

oohaahmortimer

i think pardew should be given all the time he requires and even tho he has brought our TEAM to it's lowest playing point(imo) in 28 years it's not really his fault it's just out turn to be crap again

Ledge

The baby P case is a bit of an extreme one to highligh for this IMO.

People have failed miserably in that one and all should be sacked and blamed and I am afraid in such high profile cases the boss righly and deservedly should be the fall guy/gal because they run the dept. If my dept fails I get it in the neck and then it works it's way down that is the way it should be.

You are being very conservative to say half the public would want that shoesmith out I would say 95% more like.

falconwood_1

Taking responsibility and 'doing the honourable' thing also no longer seems to apply to ANYONE.

As they're all in it for the payoff.

Curb_It

Aside from the rest of your post - traffic wardens is a poor example. I watch traffic wardens in the city of london gleefully issuing tickets to men and women who all they are trying to do is a day's work - dropping off copying paper for offices or new photocopiers or collecting large parcels for delivering. i dont know how anyone is supposed to get anything delivered in the city when your office doesnt have a loading bay. the amounts of blokes that come into our office completed stressed to drop off and sign in a rush in case they get ticketed but there is no where to park here.

With regards to the football.. i suppose people want to know why its all gone so wrong and who if they can - can make it better. Got to stop the rot.

Riscardo

It's human nature to blame ... not my fault guv.

It has always been the same in my life time, but only appears to be more so due to more media .... internet, 48 news channels, newspapers.

What I don't like is "Computer says NO"

InspectorSands

The internet's a big factor - makes it easier to complain, makes it easier to start rumours, makes it easier to get your own little vigilante group together.

It also makes it easier to be informed... but that isn't as fun as having a good old moan and pointing the finger at someone.

falconwood_1

Give Pardew til at least Saturday?

suzisausage

[cite]Posted By: Ledge[/cite]The baby P case is a bit of an extreme one to highligh for this IMO.

People have failed miserably in that one and all should be sacked and blamed and I am afraid in such high profile cases the boss righly and deservedly should be the fall guy/gal because they run the dept. If my dept fails I get it in the neck and then it works it's way down that is the way it should be.

You are being very conservative to say half the public would want that shoesmith out I would say 95% more like.

I agree that heads should roll, but a pic of the woman at the races 2 months after the baby died - really? should her whole life be put on hold?

with the traffic wardens - fair enough B, I appreciate that there are business that aren't catered for in london, but your average person that "nips to the cash point" and moans that they get a fine are the people I mean.

LargeAddick

[cite]Posted By: Curb_It[/cite]Aside from the rest of your post - traffic wardens is a poor example. I watch traffic wardens in the city of london gleefully issuing tickets to men and women who all they are trying to do is a day's work - dropping off copying paper for offices or new photocopiers or collecting large parcels for delivering. i dont know how anyone is supposed to get anything delivered in the city when your office doesnt have a loading bay. the amounts of blokes that come into our office completed stressed to drop off and sign in a rush in case they get ticketed but there is no where to park here.

With regards to the football.. i suppose people want to know why its all gone so wrong and who if they can - can make it better. Got to stop the rot.

I've twice seen security vans delivering cash to Banks getting tickets. I suppose they should park at the nearest NCP and walk.

Henry Irving

[cite]Posted By: Curb_It[/cite]Aside from the rest of your post - traffic wardens is a poor example. I watch traffic wardens in the city of london gleefully issuing tickets to men and women who all they are trying to do is a day's work - dropping off copying paper for offices or new photocopiers or collecting large parcels for delivering. i dont know how anyone is supposed to get anything delivered in the city when your office doesnt have a loading bay. the amounts of blokes that come into our office completed stressed to drop off and sign in a rush in case they get ticketed but there is no where to park here.

I agree but that is a good example of a complicated problem reduced down to "it's the traffic wardens". There are a whole range of other, related issues such as the concentration of offices in a few parts of town, the footprint of the city having been created prior to the motor car, the need to keep traffic flowing, income targets for sub-contracted parking enforcement services, irresponsible parking by some people blocking other people who are trying to get somewhere, the poor design of newish buildings that lack loading bays or temp parking, the pricing out of local businesses such as bulk stationary suppliers from the City and West End by Starbucks et al, etc, etc, etc.

Leroy Ambrose

[cite]Posted By: Fishnets[/cite]

[cite]Posted By: suzisausage[/cite]Good point inspector - totally agree - example "hating traffic wardens" erm....why? I've never come into contact with one, but then again, i haven't parked in the wrong place!

Cos Traffic Wardens are set targets and, therefore, do not use an ounce of common sense.

Or, alternatively, because local authorities need to make back money that has been taken away from them by government - and have had to privatise parking enforcement in order to achieve this.

InspectorSands

Hmmm.... this thread may be turning into an example of what vexes Suzi.

Fast foward to the future.... "EVIL CAFC insider Suzisausage is seen laughing and joking with friends at a trendy New Cross nightspot - just WEEKS after another dismal performance made children CRY. She was seen walking unsteadily and cracking crude jokes at the Venue while a Wham! tribute band played, with no regard to her team's abysmal form."

WhenIwasLittleBoy

The Baby P is not and should not be put in the same backet as some of the examples Suzi. As a parent myself it was awful what happened to that poor little mite, and with all due respect if the reports are correct in which we have come out over the last few months the authorities have failed that poor child, there is no blame here its a fact, how can a doctor check the child over three days before it died and not notice nine broken ribs and a broken back, imo that is neglegance of the highest order, how can a social worker visit the house 60 times and just be fobbed off?

Going back to less trival matters, in which really does put life into prespective, what Suzi has to understand, that people like Pardew are in a result based industry, the fact of the matter is that he hasnt produced the rusults, not just in recent weeks but over the last year or so, and if anyone within a senior management consistantly failed to produce over a year there must be question marks over there current positon.

Perhaps if those people in those positions were more responsible or qualified to do there job maybe there wouldnt be this blame culture.

AFKABartram

Back to the original point.

Yes, i fully agree there is an incorrect blame culture. For me its due to the fact media in this country is dominated by lowel-level and the desire to highlight news that isn't news.

BUT, with everything there has to be some level of accountability. Its why in most instances in life managers are paid more money than staff, to manage. If an office team is consistently underperforming, then it will eventually be the line manager that carries the can for that.

Football is different, but certain traits are still applied. Of course whether a team is a success or a failure is down to how the individuals play, but a manager is the one who acquires those players, decides how the budget should be allocated to those players, decides which ones to select, the formation and tactics that they should apply. Football managers should always be given time to get things the way they want, because there is a longer 'carry over' from the previous regime than there normally is in the wider world. But if after being given that time, if virtually all those not performing are ones he has hand picked, then it is perfectly right to question the reason on why they are underperforming, or whether the ones he brought in were not good enough for the level we are at or the fees and wages they are commanding.

Football is a very demanding game on all levels, but getting it right rewards very handsomely.

suzisausage

[cite]Posted By: WhenIwasLittleBoy[/cite]The Baby P is not and should not be put in the same backet as some of the examples Suzi. As a parent myself it was awful what happened to that poor little mite, and with all due respect if the reports are correct in which we have come out over the last few months the authorities have failed that poor child, there is no blame here its a fact, how can a doctor check the child over three days before it died and not notice nine broken ribs and a broken back, imo that is neglegance of the highest order, how can a social worker visit the house 60 times and just be fobbed off?

Going back to less trival matters, in which really does put life into prespective, what Suzi has to understand, that people like Pardew are in a result based industry, the fact of the matter is that he hasnt produced the rusults, not just in recent weeks but over the last year or so, and if anyone within a senior management consistantly failed to produce over a year there must be question marks over there current positon.

Perhaps if those people in those positions were more responsible or qualified to do there job maybe there wouldnt be this blame culture.

the Baby P thing is a valid example as the public are pushed by the media and their own habits to blame one person when yes you are right its disgusting that all those people didn't see the dangers over 60 visits. I totally agree that its not on that it happened and i totally agree that some people are not competant in their jobs, but more than one person is held responsible.

Thanks for your patronising comments, but what I do understand that is Pardew along with everyone else who is an employee is in a results based business whether that be by football results or budget targets etc. the same targets in all manor of employment not just in football. I agree that Charlton's results haven't been desirable, but why should the blame be put at just his door, when the players are underperforming, the finances haven't been the same as were first thought when pardew took the job, so his perameters may have been altered not allowing him to do his job properly, the same as any job when budgets have been cut?

adamtheaddick

I blame Andrew Mills

LenGlover

A lot of the vehemence against the Shoesmith woman is because many felt she should have gone after Victoria Climbie some years back. She survived that and now Baby P has died. People are raising legitimate questions as to her competence.

falconwood_1

" agree that Charlton's results haven't been desirable, but why should the blame be put at just his door, when the players are underperforming, the finances haven't been the same as were first thought when pardew took the job, so his perameters may have been altered not allowing him to do his job properly, the same as any job when budgets have been cut? "

He's just having one of those seasons eh.

WhenIwasLittleBoy

Suzi I didnt mean to come across patronising and if i did so and offended you i am sorry, i must take issue on the finances issue and Pardew. Pardew has had more funds than most managers within this league, and has still managed to underperform. I would be very interested to see how much the likes of Bristol City, Burnley, Wolves, Cardiff, and dare i say it Palarse have spent over the last sixteen months, i am sure some of those mangers would love to have some of the talent that is currently at Charlton within there squads, or would it suggest that the manager cannot get the best out of this team and his motivation, tactical and selection decisions are just not good enough. Do the palyers respect him as a manager?

Friend Or Defoe

When someone lose their jobs it makes people who are powerless feel better about the situation. They mislead themselves in to believing that changes have occurred and the event will not happen again, or things will improve.

suzisausage

I have no idea. What makes me laugh is that some players come off some don't, money doesn't mean success, there are some rotters that fans on this site have touted as the next best thing that haven't come off for clubs - zamora, eastwood, my god there are loads. there are players that haven't worked out playing for the top 4 prem, so its no surprise that on a limited budget (admittedly probably more than other champ teams) there are players that havent worked out yet.

I havent been to the last few games but I know that the team have been working hard daily as has the manager to stop the recent form and turn things around, and from the reports and comments i've read and heard it seems like we may be starting to turn a corner, i hope so. can't wait for saturday.

BDL

Well said Suze.

carly burn

It's like the awful music that is played at the valley every week.Who do we blame.The bloke spinning the discs,the speakers for blurting it out or our ears for being open?

;-)

AFKABartram

BDL, Suzi, what's the bottom line then guys ?

We stick with the status quo, through thick or thin, regardless of results ? Regardless of the impact it will have ?

I'm not being mischivous, i'm genuinely interested to know how long you people that are currently more patient than me are prepared to stay with it if results do not turn around for the better.

Henry Irving

The reasons why the team have underperformed (although some would disagree that they have) are many which goes back to the point that it is easier to blame one manager, one player or one board member rather than look at the many internal and external factors that impact on any football club.

EG Gordon Brown and the economy. Is he solely to blame? Would having a tory chancellor have meant that we would have avoided the credit crunch completely or is he a victim of the world markets or the New World Order which really runs the world? Again no simple yes or no answer IMHO.

BDL

Let's make an analogy here.

Robert Peston broke the news on Northern Rock, next we see huge queues and a run on a bank (something unheard of in the UK). Who de we blame here? Robert Peston, The BBC for employing him, the fools for queuing when their money was perfectly safe, the Government, George Bush, Lehman Brothers, Fanny Mac?

It's probably all of the above.

As Henry so eloquently puts it

[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]The reasons why the team have underperformed (although some would disagree that they have) are many which goes back to the point that it is easier to blame one manager, one player or one board member rather than look at the many internal and external factors that impact on any football club.

All I want is my team to win, I want to be positive, I want them to turn the corner and get a result.

Playing the blame game does us no good when we should all be pulling together. The alternative is too horrible to contemplate.

WhenIwasLittleBoy

At what point BDL do u stop beig Mr Positive and become Mr Realisitic, if we havent done it by now we never will.