[cite]Posted By: Oggy Red[/cite]The only thing that bothers me ......... is that we are again, no doubt, sacrificing quality for quantity.
The player with a decent first touch, good passing range, shooting ability, football intelligence and vision is steadily becoming an endangered species at Charlton.
Hardly surprising is it Oggy? Players like that are like hens teeth in the Premiership, as we found out when we lost Murphy, they're even rarer at the bottom of tier 2. Ambrose cartainly doesn't fit that bill
We need to look realistically at where we are at. Of the teams that were succesful in this division last year, only West Brom played proper pass and move football. All the other promotion and play-off teams were to a greater or lesser extent 'cloggers'. If we had the likes of Gera, Phillips, Brunt etc at our disposal then I'd be all for fancy football but our current crop of 'technical players' aren't good enough to remain technically gifted in the face of teams that want to beat them up and our cloggers aren't big enough or strong enough to out clog many of the teams in this division.
As much of a come down as it is, and as much as we feel we should have, we simply don't have the resources to assemble a squad of technically gifted players good enough to withstand the physical rigours of this league - thats the reality of the situation. We're at a point where we have to admit defeat and join em rather than pretending we can still beat em.
Can't say I'm pleased about it but if it keeps us up then I'll take it on the chin.
No it's not surprising, Exiled ........ but it is disappointing.
The trouble is, as you pointed out, we've spent the last 12 months playing teams that are physically bigger than us, don't take prisoners but are better organised.
However, I still feel we need to retain that balance between the technical and the physical.
[cite]Posted By: Oggy Red[/cite]No it's not surprising, Exiled ........ but it is disappointing.
The trouble is, as you pointed out, we've spent the last 12 months playing teams that are physically bigger than us, don't take prisoners but are better organised.
However, I still feel we need to retain that balance between the technical and the physical.
I agree Oggy, but anyone who thinks Ambrose is the answer is kidding themselves imo.
It's not what I'd hoped for but I'll now be happy with merely surviving this season. If that means being the ugliest dirty bunch of wotsits in the division then so beit.
The only hope now is that we can weather this storm and can then rebuild with the likes of Semedo, Wright, Shelvey, Moo2 etc plus a couple of well placed signings next summer. Rather like we did back in 97/98 adding Sir Clive to the likes of Rufus, Robbo, Newts & Kins after a dissappointing season the year before.
I think it's a mistake and that we will miss him. I know he's frustrating but he does have that bit of quality that is so lacking in our current squad. Yes he goes missing for large parts of the game but so do loads of players at present, but he does create, does clock up a fair few assists and does chip in with the vital goals and isn't afraid to take a shot. He does get a fair amount of criticism which obviously doesn't help and must add a hell of a lot of pressure.
I've no idea what his wages are but surely it would be better to retain him until the end of his contract than bring in another loanee. They will need time to settle into the squad and as we have seen in the past with the current managers loan signings being very hit and miss and usually no better than squad members already currently at the club. Whom he will then feel obliged to play them even though they are not quite good enough just to justify their additional wages.
Can't reallly see us receiving a fee for him either so whats the point in weakening the squad.
Admitedly he hasn't played well this season but on form he is one of the best goalscoring midfielders in the division. Depends on who his replacement is but bad move for me.
Ledge
I know you gave up your ST, but have you seen him this season?
He's 'King Cack
I've nickednamed him Darren Nandos Coz he's a chicken when it comes to putting his foot in
Ooo I like the little dig in there :-)
Yeah I gave up my season ticket and have not seen him play. Fair enough in your opinion he is what you say he is but I still say he a quality player when on form which he obviously isn't.
Let him go and I think we'll regret it. Hardly blessed with goalscoring midfielders are we AND yes I know he hasn't scored this season.
[cite]Posted By: BigRedEvil[/cite]I am, especially when the replacement is Lloyd Sam
Hasn't lived up to his potential. Technically one of our better players, but goes missing alot of the time. But still probably our best player in an attacking sense so when we're struggling for goals we are letting him go. Which is strange.
Pardew was saying a few will go and a few will come in, so we should get a replacement, hopefully its someone decent. I think he'll be looking for someone with a bit more strength and 'grit'.
Sam is worse though, but something about him makes people hate Ambrose more.
In the end if we go down we'll miss players like Ambrose, just like now you realise players like Hreidarsson and El Karkouri are better than some of the defenders we've had since we got relegated.
look at newsnow. Various stories esp East Anglian Daily News plus in Kent Messenger as Pards confirmed after Plymouth game that he was off to Ipswich on loan.
fantastic promise, was really really excited when he signed, and it's petered out into getting whatever we can for him as he's out of contract. never quite found his feet after losing the role of playing Benty's foil in the 4-5-1. Bet he does well at Ipswich...
We can't afford Sharon mincing around midfield at present. You can do it when you have a strong enough team to accomodate (ooh err missus) someone of his abilities but not where we are now. Needs must I am afraid so our Roy keane without the aggression is surplus and we need a cheap northern clogger instead. I would imagine shazza was on a few quid a week too.
The pardox that is Darren Ambrose eh? Since Curbs signed him, he has flattered to deceive on so many occassions. He is clearly a player of some skill but with what appears, from where I sit, to be a very fragile temperament. I would love to have been a sport psychologist, trying to work him out and make him tick on a regular basis, even during the same game.
There is a slight sad sense, like there was with Thomas and before him Rommedahl, of unfulfilment in a Charlton shirt.
He was very young when signed for Newcastle, didn't pull up any trees there. Came to us as part of Curbs last hurrah, had his moments but never really found a regular first team birth.
It's a shame and I wish him well, and it's easy to make a case for saying that we've failed to get the best out of a quality player but my feeling is that the problem, like with Thomas and Romm, is firmly between his ears.
I think this is the key Henners... every manager bar the six months under Curbs when we had the 4-5-1 working wonders seemed to not quite get that point.
"There is a slight sad sense, like there was with Thomas and before him Rommedahl, of unfulfilment in a Charlton shirt."
Yes, that's true. You could almost add Murphy, too - clearly a hugely skilful player but ended up warming the bench. I remember Curbs saying something about the way Murphy played meant you had to build the team around him and he didn't want to build it around any single individual.
s that why flair players have such a struggle fitting into the Charlton set-up? Who was the last one? Parker, but he was terrier as much as flair. Then we start really going back, don't we? Johnny Robinson, Rob Lee...
[quote][cite]Posted By: Oggy Red[/cite][i aria-level=0 aria-posinset=0 aria-setsize=0]"In total, Ambrose has made 114 appearances for the Addicks, netting 16 goals."[/i]
Is that a better scoring ratio than Varney......?[/quote]
Frees up wages for another Bouazza/Cook/Sinclair. Great!
Scored alot of goals for us last season. Much better than Lloyd Sam. The one midfielder who we had who was able to pick a pass and create something. We will miss him more than most people think.
[cite]Posted By: nigel w[/cite]s that why flair players have such a struggle fitting into the Charlton set-up? Who was the last one? Parker, but he was terrier as much as flair. Then we start really going back, don't we? Johnny Robinson, Rob Lee...
I wouldn't consider Parker or Robinson flair players.
Di Canio or maybe Jensen really.
[cite]Posted By: BigRedEvil[/cite]Frees up wages for another Bouazza/Cook/Sinclair. Great!
Scored alot of goals for us last season. Much better than Lloyd Sam. The one midfielder who we had who was able to pick a pass and create something. We will miss him more than most people think.
I agree with you. If we're relegated and end up signing for example some promising League Two winger we'll realise how much better someone like Ambrose was.
Though a lot of people seem to rate Sam higher than Ambrose, I really don't agree.
[cite]Posted By: bingaddick[/cite]The pardox that is Darren Ambrose eh? Since Curbs signed him, he has flattered to deceive on so many occassions. He is clearly a player of some skill but with what appears, from where I sit, to be a very fragile temperament. I would love to have been a sport psychologist, trying to work him out and make him tick on a regular basis, even during the same game.
There is a slight sad sense, like there was with Thomas and before him Rommedahl, of unfulfilment in a Charlton shirt.
He was very young when signed for Newcastle, didn't pull up any trees there. Came to us as part of Curbs last hurrah, had his moments but never really found a regular first team birth.
It's a shame and I wish him well, and it's easy to make a case for saying that we've failed to get the best out of a quality player but my feeling is that the problem, like with Thomas and Romm, is firmly between his ears.
I agree with much of that but think it is very unfair to bracket hom with Thomas and Rommedahl, Ambrose did drift in and out of games but he did often make an impact - he scores goals and he creates goals - the two aforementioned wastes of space very rarely did either.
The Addicks have been linked with Coventry City’s out-of-favour Michael Mifsud but Pardew dismissed speculation linking the club with Brighton’s Glenn Murray.
Comments
Hardly surprising is it Oggy? Players like that are like hens teeth in the Premiership, as we found out when we lost Murphy, they're even rarer at the bottom of tier 2. Ambrose cartainly doesn't fit that bill
We need to look realistically at where we are at. Of the teams that were succesful in this division last year, only West Brom played proper pass and move football. All the other promotion and play-off teams were to a greater or lesser extent 'cloggers'. If we had the likes of Gera, Phillips, Brunt etc at our disposal then I'd be all for fancy football but our current crop of 'technical players' aren't good enough to remain technically gifted in the face of teams that want to beat them up and our cloggers aren't big enough or strong enough to out clog many of the teams in this division.
As much of a come down as it is, and as much as we feel we should have, we simply don't have the resources to assemble a squad of technically gifted players good enough to withstand the physical rigours of this league - thats the reality of the situation. We're at a point where we have to admit defeat and join em rather than pretending we can still beat em.
Can't say I'm pleased about it but if it keeps us up then I'll take it on the chin.
The trouble is, as you pointed out, we've spent the last 12 months playing teams that are physically bigger than us, don't take prisoners but are better organised.
However, I still feel we need to retain that balance between the technical and the physical.
I agree Oggy, but anyone who thinks Ambrose is the answer is kidding themselves imo.
It's not what I'd hoped for but I'll now be happy with merely surviving this season. If that means being the ugliest dirty bunch of wotsits in the division then so beit.
The only hope now is that we can weather this storm and can then rebuild with the likes of Semedo, Wright, Shelvey, Moo2 etc plus a couple of well placed signings next summer. Rather like we did back in 97/98 adding Sir Clive to the likes of Rufus, Robbo, Newts & Kins after a dissappointing season the year before.
I've no idea what his wages are but surely it would be better to retain him until the end of his contract than bring in another loanee. They will need time to settle into the squad and as we have seen in the past with the current managers loan signings being very hit and miss and usually no better than squad members already currently at the club. Whom he will then feel obliged to play them even though they are not quite good enough just to justify their additional wages.
Can't reallly see us receiving a fee for him either so whats the point in weakening the squad.
hope he stays personally!
Ooo I like the little dig in there :-)
Yeah I gave up my season ticket and have not seen him play. Fair enough in your opinion he is what you say he is but I still say he a quality player when on form which he obviously isn't.
Let him go and I think we'll regret it. Hardly blessed with goalscoring midfielders are we AND yes I know he hasn't scored this season.
Pardew was saying a few will go and a few will come in, so we should get a replacement, hopefully its someone decent. I think he'll be looking for someone with a bit more strength and 'grit'.
Sam is worse though, but something about him makes people hate Ambrose more.
In the end if we go down we'll miss players like Ambrose, just like now you realise players like Hreidarsson and El Karkouri are better than some of the defenders we've had since we got relegated.
Watch him turn into bleeding Ronaldo as soon as he puts another shirt on :(
We're going to need to find the right blend of quality and bullying to get out of this mess, IMO, so we may yet miss him...
Am not that keen to see him go, but better that we get some money for him while we can rather than him leaving on a free in the summer.
Is that a better scoring ratio than Varney......?
fantastic promise, was really really excited when he signed, and it's petered out into getting whatever we can for him as he's out of contract. never quite found his feet after losing the role of playing Benty's foil in the 4-5-1. Bet he does well at Ipswich...
There is a slight sad sense, like there was with Thomas and before him Rommedahl, of unfulfilment in a Charlton shirt.
He was very young when signed for Newcastle, didn't pull up any trees there. Came to us as part of Curbs last hurrah, had his moments but never really found a regular first team birth.
It's a shame and I wish him well, and it's easy to make a case for saying that we've failed to get the best out of a quality player but my feeling is that the problem, like with Thomas and Romm, is firmly between his ears.
Still, it frees up some wages and hopefully means some cash from a sale in jan.
Wish him luck but for all his talent he didn't do enough for us at this level. maybe in another side he will do well.
I think this is the key Henners... every manager bar the six months under Curbs when we had the 4-5-1 working wonders seemed to not quite get that point.
"There is a slight sad sense, like there was with Thomas and before him Rommedahl, of unfulfilment in a Charlton shirt."
Yes, that's true. You could almost add Murphy, too - clearly a hugely skilful player but ended up warming the bench. I remember Curbs saying something about the way Murphy played meant you had to build the team around him and he didn't want to build it around any single individual.
s that why flair players have such a struggle fitting into the Charlton set-up? Who was the last one? Parker, but he was terrier as much as flair. Then we start really going back, don't we? Johnny Robinson, Rob Lee...
Is that a better scoring ratio than Varney......?[/quote]
Better than Lisbie
Scored alot of goals for us last season. Much better than Lloyd Sam. The one midfielder who we had who was able to pick a pass and create something. We will miss him more than most people think.
I wouldn't consider Parker or Robinson flair players.
Di Canio or maybe Jensen really.
I agree with you. If we're relegated and end up signing for example some promising League Two winger we'll realise how much better someone like Ambrose was.
Though a lot of people seem to rate Sam higher than Ambrose, I really don't agree.