[cite]Posted By: ShootersHillGuru[/cite]Good points. Trouble is I think Pardew thinks he can`t afford to play him and now can`t afford to let him out on loan.
[cite]Posted By: ShootersHillGuru[/cite]Good points. Trouble is I think Pardew thinks he can`t afford to play him and now can`t afford to let him out on loan.
I think you've summed up the situation perfectly.
Agreed Pards is damned whatever he does now. If he gives Dickson a run and he doesn't score he's more than likely to be sacked. If he sends him out on loan and he's successful then the criticism will be even louder. So the solution is to play him for ten minutes here and there and even if he comes off occasionally he can still use the line "the kid isn't ready".
PS The much criticised player by my Tottenham friends has just netted his 10th of the season.
The fact is you add all his sub appearances up he's got 1 in 2.
Roughly (say your average sub appearance is 15 mins) goals per game: Dicko 1 in 2, Toddy 1 in 2, Gray 1 in 3, Varney 1 in 4.5 and McLeod 1 in 10, though these figures are rough they speak for themselves.
OK Dicko may not be a team player, maybe a bit ball greedy (in Pards eyes) I can't say for sure but what I like about him as a fan is he's an old school Charlton player.
He’s been dragged up from lower league (like Kin's and Robbo and many more) so he appreciates the chance the club has given him.
Which you can see in his play anyone that was at that cup reply in Jan knows what Dicko can do, he was awesome.
His passion was infectious, he wanted the ball and once he got it his single mind set was to just go for goal and just have a go at the opposition, something we do not do enough of at the moment.
Another reason why I have a soft spot for him he gives the fans encouragement he gets stuck in and when we scores he's straight over to the fans to celebrate and go mad with us just as he was yesterday.
Fans are simple creatures, all players have to do, even if we are not playing well to a certain extent, is put in a crunching tackle and when we win a set piece just gesture to the crowd to gee us up and we will get stuck in and behind the team as well.
This is one of the reasons the atmosphere at the Valley is suffering there is no player fan interaction.
The players are supposed to be an extension of the fans on the pitch, there is a handful of players like this but in past more successful years it was almost the whole squad that had this mind set.
Dicko I feel is one of these players, but when all is said and done even if Pards doesn’t agree all he has to do to shut us up is to give him 6 starts and if he doesn’t play well I for one will hold my hands up and admit I may have been wrong and it would be the end of the issue.
As the stats above suggest the worst that could happen is he doesn’t score which is what is happening to our strikers in the main at the moment anyway.
The problem is, and i have only seen Dicko a couple of times and he has not impressed in either, but lets say that Pards gives him a full 90 minutes and he performs for that full 90 minutes as he did for the few against Barnsley then the fickle Charlton crowd will turn on him and destroy him.
I don't want to see him play from the beginning, because I don't think from what I have seen he is ready, but to get him ready he needs more than 15 minute cameos in emergency situations, where the pressure on him to perform is about getting the goal that will save the points, so either give him 30 - 45 minutes a few times before starting him or get rid to the level that Pards believes he will perform at. because either he can be groomed to make it at this level or he can't, unless of course we are just holding on to him for next season in the third division.
[cite]Posted By: Kap10[/cite]lets say that Pards gives him a full 90 minutes and he performs for that full 90 minutes as he did for the few against Barnsley then the fickle Charlton crowd will turn on him and destroy him..
Do not think that this would happen. Even with all the dire performances, have we really turned on any one player this season? Only the manager as far as I know, and even then nowhere near as much as a lot of other clubs' fans would do.
[quote]Posted By: Kap10 '.....give him 30 - 45 minutes a few times before starting him'
Barnsley would of been perfect for that the game was lost so may as well go for it but Pards didn't see it like that.
I don't think the fans would get on his back even if he didn't score because fans can tell when a player gives it his all and I think Dicko would, I know it must be difficult for some fans especially if they can't make many away games as Dicko has had so little game time and that he seems to of had his best performances away from home but he has got something about him.
"the dedicated goalscorer is a luxury in the multi-positional player team ethic that's prevalent these days."
My god, Oggy - I wonder if you've hit on why we're not very good. Our manager has decided that out-and-out goalscorers are just too much of a risk in our current predicament and we only want frontmen who can defend. Even if they can't score, we can then climb our way up the table with a series of O-O draws !!!
I'm teasing , because I do know exactly what you mean. But seriously, it may say quite a lot about what is wrong with us at present...
I personally have seen nothing from Dickson that screams out to me that he should be given a start yet. I didn't think he had much impact at Ipswich. What galvanised us there was Jose Semedo. If you want to champion someone's cause for inclusion in the team he's your man.
Semedo was terrific in midfield on Saturday, solid, composed, dependable and tidy passing - provided that platform in midfield which with decent displays from Bailey and Holland, enabled us to have the edge in midfield for much of the game.
I thought other than Reidy, young Jose was our best player last season and has been desperately unlucky not to have nailed down a regular place by now. I'd play him even in a 442 ahead of Holland right now as he's a very neat and tidy player who rarely wastes possesion and he'd both protect the back 4 better when Moo2 or Youga go bombing forward and free up Bailey to get forward more an influence things higher up the pitch. He's also a real prospect and given our current position we seriously need to be trying to give our best prospects the best possible chance of developing to their potential.
I personally think to settle the situation let Dicko go for a month to maybe brighton or somewhere of that level then let Varns go for a month after and when they return they should both be full of confidence I can see varns maybe getting 10-15 more goals (this season) if we do that and Dickson who knows at least 10 goals in my opinion.
I know what you mean Large, because most people haven't seen to much of him yet. I ve seen enough of him to know if he gets a goalscoring chance he'll more than likely score. To get back to your point, I've seen nothing from the Gray and Varney parnership to warrent sticking with it. Thats not just this season, thats half of last season too.
[cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite]I personally have seen nothing from Dickson that screams out to me that he should be given a start yet. I didn't think he had much impact at Ipswich. What galvanised us there was Jose Semedo. If you want to champion someone's cause for inclusion in the team he's your man.
[cite]Posted By: Exiled_Addick[/cite]I thought other than Reidy, young Jose was our best player last season and has been desperately unlucky not to have nailed down a regular place by now. I'd play him even in a 442 ahead of Holland right now as he's a very neat and tidy player who rarely wastes possesion and he'd both protect the back 4 better when Moo2 or Youga go bombing forward and free up Bailey to get forward more an influence things higher up the pitch. He's also a real prospect and given our current position we seriously need to be trying to give our best prospects the best possible chance of developing to their potential.
Agree about Semedo, and because he's comfortable in several positions, and hasn't found a regular place yet. Hard to fit all our CMs in though, Pardew won't drop Holland, obviously Bailey needs to be there, Racon did well at the start of the season and I want to see more of him, then we have Shelvey and Wright who are potential first team regulars and need a few games for experience.
[cite]Posted By: BexleyRed[/cite]I know what you mean Large, because most people haven't seen to much of him yet. I ve seen enough of him to know if he gets a goalscoring chance he'll more than likely score. To get back to your point, I've seen nothing from the Gray and Varney parnership to warrent sticking with it. Thats not just this season, thats half of last season too.
Gray played well at Plymouth though - 1st half winning a lot in the air, later 2nd half playing neat and tidy passing football with Sam, Toddy, Bailey and Dicko.
Apart from his personal issues, Gray's biggest problem is that we don't play to his strengths.
Cheers Oggy, I'm actually glad he played well. It's the Gray and Varney partnership thats not working for me. As much as i like Luke and love his effort, as our "main" striker, its a disaster. Loyalty is one thing, but continually failing to deliver in our present position , surely means someone else being given a chance to impress.
Maybe the solution is to play Toddy and Gray up top as a pair. We can use their hold up play to bring the wingers and our overlapping fullbacks into the game further up the pitch and to then concentrate on getting lots of crosses in with Bailey hanging around the edge of the box to pounce on any underhit clearances. We can then play Semedo centre midfield to keep us nice and solid and because we're concentrating our attacks down the flanks it would help compensate our lack of creativity centrally. Got to be worth a try I reckon.
[quote][cite]Posted By: Exiled_Addick[/cite]Maybe the solution is to play Toddy and Gray up top as a pair. We can use their hold up play to bring the wingers and our overlapping fullbacks into the game further up the pitch and to then concentrate on getting lots of crosses in with Bailey hanging around the edge of the box to pounce on any underhit clearances. We can then play Semedo centre midfield to keep us nice and solid and because we're concentrating our attacks down the flanks it would help compensate our lack of creativity centrally. Got to be worth a try I reckon.[/quote]
I wouldn't play those to as neither have any pace so it would be easy to defend against.
Toddy and either McLeod or Dickson would be my choice.
Pacy players require a midfielder capable of picking out their runs though, we simply don't have one of them. We can use the pace of our wide players to stretch teams.
McLeod when fit.
From what I have seen of Dickson (firmly unimpressed) he should be sent on loan for the rest of the season to see if his game can hopefully improve.
I'm probably missing something here, but Pardew isn't keen on Dickson at the moment, but excuse me...wasn't he signed by Pardew? Whats that all about then? Scoop up tons of players like Dickson and Fleetwood (wasn't there a Team bath player looked at too), and hope by the law of averages one pays off, a kind of older blokes youth system. As I said in an earlier post, I don't reckon Dickson is Claus Jensenesque, but played right I reckon he will get you a goal. Errm, Alan why did you sign Dickson then?
He did but maybe expected him to develop more? He never will and was never going to become a good all round player. I'd like to see him get a run though I'm still not sure about him, though I can imagine him doing nothing all game then when a few chances fall to him scoring.
There were two more non league strikers, Sean Canham from Team Bath, and Moses Ademola from Croydon Athletic. Both in League Two this season. Notts County and Brentford.
[cite]Posted By: Salad[/cite]Ambrose, eg.the pass to Bouazza a couple of weeks ago for our last winning goal!
Not buying that. Ambrose is not a play maker. I don't really rate him one bit but I'll admit that if he's good at anything it is that he has decent technique and a good sense for finding space in the opposition area and therefore getting goalscoring chances. He isn't and Jensen/Murphy/Reidy type who has both vision and a great range of passing. Every player will produce the odd good pass or cross but player like Varney and Mcleod need someone who will do it with a bit more regularity than our Darren has ever been able to manage.
I dont understand people saying Dicko Should go out on loan. He did that last season at Gillingham, and scored plenty of goals, and at a higher level than he' s playing at the moment in our reserves. What more can he do ? Surely Pards watched him play at Dulwich before he signed him,he must have seen something in him. Either that or he' a crap judge of players.
Comments
I think you've summed up the situation perfectly.
Agreed Pards is damned whatever he does now. If he gives Dickson a run and he doesn't score he's more than likely to be sacked. If he sends him out on loan and he's successful then the criticism will be even louder. So the solution is to play him for ten minutes here and there and even if he comes off occasionally he can still use the line "the kid isn't ready".
PS The much criticised player by my Tottenham friends has just netted his 10th of the season.
Roughly (say your average sub appearance is 15 mins) goals per game: Dicko 1 in 2, Toddy 1 in 2, Gray 1 in 3, Varney 1 in 4.5 and McLeod 1 in 10, though these figures are rough they speak for themselves.
OK Dicko may not be a team player, maybe a bit ball greedy (in Pards eyes) I can't say for sure but what I like about him as a fan is he's an old school Charlton player.
He’s been dragged up from lower league (like Kin's and Robbo and many more) so he appreciates the chance the club has given him.
Which you can see in his play anyone that was at that cup reply in Jan knows what Dicko can do, he was awesome.
His passion was infectious, he wanted the ball and once he got it his single mind set was to just go for goal and just have a go at the opposition, something we do not do enough of at the moment.
Another reason why I have a soft spot for him he gives the fans encouragement he gets stuck in and when we scores he's straight over to the fans to celebrate and go mad with us just as he was yesterday.
Fans are simple creatures, all players have to do, even if we are not playing well to a certain extent, is put in a crunching tackle and when we win a set piece just gesture to the crowd to gee us up and we will get stuck in and behind the team as well.
This is one of the reasons the atmosphere at the Valley is suffering there is no player fan interaction.
The players are supposed to be an extension of the fans on the pitch, there is a handful of players like this but in past more successful years it was almost the whole squad that had this mind set.
Dicko I feel is one of these players, but when all is said and done even if Pards doesn’t agree all he has to do to shut us up is to give him 6 starts and if he doesn’t play well I for one will hold my hands up and admit I may have been wrong and it would be the end of the issue.
As the stats above suggest the worst that could happen is he doesn’t score which is what is happening to our strikers in the main at the moment anyway.
I don't want to see him play from the beginning, because I don't think from what I have seen he is ready, but to get him ready he needs more than 15 minute cameos in emergency situations, where the pressure on him to perform is about getting the goal that will save the points, so either give him 30 - 45 minutes a few times before starting him or get rid to the level that Pards believes he will perform at. because either he can be groomed to make it at this level or he can't, unless of course we are just holding on to him for next season in the third division.
Have we asked this question for the others? Are Varney or McLeod ready? Are Youga or Moutakil, Basey, Wright or Bailey ready?
Some may argue 'yes' for some of the above but they only have that luxury because we've been allowed to see them play.
Do not think that this would happen. Even with all the dire performances, have we really turned on any one player this season? Only the manager as far as I know, and even then nowhere near as much as a lot of other clubs' fans would do.
Barnsley would of been perfect for that the game was lost so may as well go for it but Pards didn't see it like that.
I don't think the fans would get on his back even if he didn't score because fans can tell when a player gives it his all and I think Dicko would, I know it must be difficult for some fans especially if they can't make many away games as Dicko has had so little game time and that he seems to of had his best performances away from home but he has got something about him.
"the dedicated goalscorer is a luxury in the multi-positional player team ethic that's prevalent these days."
My god, Oggy - I wonder if you've hit on why we're not very good. Our manager has decided that out-and-out goalscorers are just too much of a risk in our current predicament and we only want frontmen who can defend. Even if they can't score, we can then climb our way up the table with a series of O-O draws !!!
I'm teasing , because I do know exactly what you mean. But seriously, it may say quite a lot about what is wrong with us at present...
Shame he was carried off.
Agree about Semedo, and because he's comfortable in several positions, and hasn't found a regular place yet. Hard to fit all our CMs in though, Pardew won't drop Holland, obviously Bailey needs to be there, Racon did well at the start of the season and I want to see more of him, then we have Shelvey and Wright who are potential first team regulars and need a few games for experience.
Gray played well at Plymouth though - 1st half winning a lot in the air, later 2nd half playing neat and tidy passing football with Sam, Toddy, Bailey and Dicko.
Apart from his personal issues, Gray's biggest problem is that we don't play to his strengths.
I wouldn't play those to as neither have any pace so it would be easy to defend against.
Toddy and either McLeod or Dickson would be my choice.
From what I have seen of Dickson (firmly unimpressed) he should be sent on loan for the rest of the season to see if his game can hopefully improve.
Ambrose is a useless fairy, remember!
;o)
Doesn't do it often enough though. And he's gone to Ipswich for 2 months now anyway.
As I said in an earlier post, I don't reckon Dickson is Claus Jensenesque, but played right I reckon he will get you a goal.
Errm, Alan why did you sign Dickson then?
There were two more non league strikers, Sean Canham from Team Bath, and Moses Ademola from Croydon Athletic. Both in League Two this season. Notts County and Brentford.
Not buying that. Ambrose is not a play maker. I don't really rate him one bit but I'll admit that if he's good at anything it is that he has decent technique and a good sense for finding space in the opposition area and therefore getting goalscoring chances. He isn't and Jensen/Murphy/Reidy type who has both vision and a great range of passing. Every player will produce the odd good pass or cross but player like Varney and Mcleod need someone who will do it with a bit more regularity than our Darren has ever been able to manage.
Why? .... because that's what Dicko proved he does best.
Dicko might be a lousy Todorov, but if he can ghost in and belt the ball in the net, that'll do for me.
That's what his game is all about.
Play to the lad's strengths, Pardew.
Damn you all for raising my hopes.