[cite]Posted By: AFKABartram[/cite]Your dignity, your honesty, your reputation,
or your bank balance.
I hope you're having a sleepless night, and do the right thing for this club, these supporters, and ultimately yourself.
Strong stuff from you AFKA, however to draw an analogy for the outside world, he won't go himself just as Jonathan Ross won't either.
Both should now IMO and forsake any compensation.
I'm as loyal as they come Chirpy, have always got 100% behind everyone playing and managing Charlton, and have always tried to encourage unity as much as i can. It breaks my heart to turn on a Charlton manager as i've never done that before, i couldn't even bring myself to do that to poor old Les.
If i have finally turned, then there really can't be many left who haven't.
But this season has to be rescued while it still can be. Christ, it sounds ridiculous but with a run the play offs are still very much in play.
But what we have at the moment is a team sinking faster than a political thread on here. It has nothing, it is a shell of a team. It has no heart, no backbone, no creativity and no goals. Its as much relegation material as Derby was in the Prem last year. It is his team, he has put this together, and he still has not a clue on how to set it out correctly to win games in this division.
sorry this team is going DOWN!! I have supported charlton for approx 20/30yrs and I have never seen a gutless, under performing, niave of any kind of tactial nounce as this one.
I was there when we got relageted and we playeed Bristol Rovers away from home and I couldnt see where our next goal was coming from.... At leat with those players they tried, they knew what they did but wern't good enough.
Pardew has to go but we can't afford to let him go....
I will be there as a season ticket holder next year.. but i am afraid it will be in the 1st divison.
For those people who think the good times are around the corner, open up your eyes.
Our record under pardew is abysmul (and that is being polite).. so how is the good times round the corner when we have only one twice in TWELVE games. This time last year we were FIFTH and only stayed there as most clubs were poor !!
this is the WORSE side i have ever seen in the league to date.
I have gone past hope. I have given up on hope and are waiting for us to go down !!
Just off to bed feeling more deflated as a Charlton supporter than I can remember in 30 years.
Strong, strong words, AFKA. You have often tried (in the gentlest, most reasoned way) to keep in check some of the more hot-headed voices on here, and so I know with what a heavy heart you must say what you have just said.
But you are right. A shell of a team with no heart, no backbone, no creativity and no goals.
And it's one man's team. He put it together (with obvious constraints, but there's 23 other teams in the championship, most of them operating under even tighter constraints). Having put it together he has no idea how to make it work. It's an utterly dysfunctional team that under his (lack of) direction, is degenerating before our eyes and which, as you say, has no more hope of turning it around than Derby last season.
That said, we are still only ten points off the play-off places ("only" 10 points - it might as well be 100 when we have failed to win back-to-back games for almost a year).
Someone else might be able to turn it around with this squad of players.I don't know who that someone could or should be. But frankly, anyone would be preferable right now, because just about anyone is more likely to give us our Charlton back than AP.
If having slept on it, he's still insisting in the morning, ''I'm not going anywhere'', then the board has to act decisively and immediately and tell him ''oh yes you are.''
He should not be allowed to take training on Monday morning. I really think he has to be shown the door that fast.
[cite]Posted By: AFKABartram[/cite]I'm as loyal as they come Chirpy, have always got 100% behind everyone playing and managing Charlton, and have always tried to encourage unity as much as i can. It breaks my heart to turn on a Charlton manager as i've never done that before.
If i have finally turned, then there really can't be many left who haven't.
We simply cannot sit back and let it happen.
I agree with you, I know that it is you or your section that start the Charlton Till I Die chant. I have never doubted your loyalty.
I have posted on here tonight on another thread "Changing Your Manager" much the same with your Derby last season analogy.
If we don't change at the top, nothing will change on the field, however we do not want to go out of the Frying Pan into the Fire as we did exactly 2 years ago. If we change it must be a proper one, a professional one, without sentiment as before.
Again as I said on the above metioned thread, I do not have the answer.
Between AFKA's strident lament and New York Addick's fine post bemoaning what took place today, I am pleased that the extent of the attention I paid to the match was a quick check of the score on my mobile (down 3-0), saw that Varney started again paired with Gray, registered mild surprise, and then went back to knocking on doors for Sen. Obama in West Virginia.
I had very high hopes for Pards' tenure as gaffer, particularly with Dowie in the rear-view mirror, but this is an abomination. Under tough circumstances, the management of the team, to my mind, has provided Pardew with the talent needed to be, at worst, competitive in this league. Through three months, he appears to have squandered his resources.
at the end of the day we cant sack pardew because of money and how can we put another manager in because of money so we are stuck at the moment,lets just admit we are shit and going down ,just deal with it,started watching cafc 35 years ago and we are just going a full circle,at the end proper cafc fans will still be there,come on you reds!!!
I really want Pardew to do well, as we all do. But sadly it's now time for him and Charlton to part.
Pardew created this team and can't get results out of it. He has run out of options to try, and from what I see doesn't motivate the players into showing what they can be. Yes we are too lightweight for this division at times, but I still believe that this squad is better than 21st.
The Barnsley commentators made a very important point last night. At 3-0 down, coming out for the second half they really expected us to come out all guns blazing. Instead we offered no threat at all. They said it looked to them like the players didn't want to play for Pardew. Whether he's a good manager or not, we are in a terminal slide which he himself has tried to arrest over the past few games. He's proved that he's not capable of doing so. So the only option is to change things whilst there's still time to recover. This squad is certainly good enough for a top six place, but the truth is with Pardew in charge they don't know if they're coming or going. Even if they play well one week the chances are they'll be dropped the next. That Barnsley side yesterday was unchanged for about five games on the trot and they are starting to gell. Pardew has had almost two years and still doesn't think that someone like Semedo should be playing week in week out. More frustratingly he takes every opportunity to say what a great player he is. The guy is a wind up merchant.
[cite]Posted By: AFKABartram[/cite]I'm as loyal as they come Chirpy, have always got 100% behind everyone playing and managing Charlton, and have always tried to encourage unity as much as i can. It breaks my heart to turn on a Charlton manager as i've never done that before, i couldn't even bring myself to do that to poor old Les.
If i have finally turned, then there really can't be many left who haven't.
But this season has to be rescued while it still can be. Christ, it sounds ridiculous but with a run the play offs are still very much in play.
But what we have at the moment is a team sinking faster than a political thread on here. It has nothing, it is a shell of a team. It has no heart, no backbone, no creativity and no goals. Its as much relegation material as Derby was in the Prem last year. It is his team, he has put this together, and he still has not a clue on how to set it out correctly to win games in this division.
We simply cannot sit back and let it happen.
This is how I feel. I hate disloyalty but enough is enough. I could have coped with an inconsistent season but the play is just going from bad to worse. I cannot see how he can make this team whole again, because it's rotten at it's core. Sorry but there it is.
The bottom line now is Mr Pardew must recieve his p45, the patently obvious fact is he can achieve nothing with this team but this team with a strong minded manager could salvage something from a season fast turning into a total disaster. I was very happy when we got him in 2006 and I felt we had a manager who was more than capable of staving off the drop or getting us back up if the worst occured, we were relatively ok until this February but since then its essentialy been one calamity after another. Yesterday against Barnsley, one of the few teams that we were above in the table we were shambolic and looked very low on confidence, slow to react, second to practically every ball and essentially outclassed at home. We look dire right now, ultimately like a team who unless something is done for the good of all and call time on Pardew's tenure will be in league 1 come August and all the club would have achieved in the last 16 years on the field all but wiped out. Contract or otherwise I feel that the board has to act now for the greater good, I can't see him resigning.
Look at the difference 'Arry has made at Spurs. We are not dissimilar to them (just at a different level) - we do have players with talent, they are just not being motivated and managed properly. If he doesn't have the dignity to walk, then we have to act. Let's just sack him for imcompetence and let him sue us - at least that way his reputation will get trashed in public even if he ends up getting the money he so little deserves.
[cite]Posted By: AFKABartram[/cite]
But this season has to be rescued while it still can be. Christ, it sounds ridiculous but with a run the play offs are still very much in play.
I know his name is a swear word to some (and I'm NOT advocating his return!), but Dowie went to Palace in a similar position and got them promoted. IT CAN BE DONE!
Ok, so we all agree that the board hasn't got the money to pay-off Pardew in a lump sum without raiding the January transfer funds. What we can do is to stick him on gardening leave and give Parkinson the job. After all, he was the one we were after initially to replace Curbs until Colchester said we couldn't speak to him. The big question, is "Do the players respect and want to play for Parky?"
Up to now I'd been wary of calling for Pardew to go, mainly because kicking out managers after disappointing results is often a knee-jerk reaction, and often doesn't work. But I never thought we would fall this far so quickly. At the beginning of the season I was told by people close to the Club that Pardew was disrespected throughout, and considered to be in it only for the money. But I chose to give him the benefit of the doubt, and more importantly so did the Board. Pardew has responded by taking us lower, in every respect, than I ever dreamed possible. The Board has to get rid of him now, because the cost of relegation outweighs any compensation costs. I suppose that because of the finances we have to expect Parkinson will be put in charge. I have no idea what to expect from him. We just have to hope that Weegie Addick, above, is right.
I've not called for the head of a Charlton manager ever before in my 21 years or so of wacthing them but now Pardew has to go. Since he took charge he's steered us to relegation from the Prem, midtable mediocrity in the Championship and now a relegation battle which though it's too early to say we're in, is a far more realistic prospect than it should be.
Pards was probably given more spending power than just about any other manager in this division last season and though it was tough to adjust to a complete squad overhaul in just one year, he completely under achieved. That he was forced to sell players in the summer was not something that was completely out of his hands as he wasted more than his fair share of our limited funds last season, bringing in a ludicrous number of loan signings to replace his own, expensive, under performing signings.
And now, panic after panic. Basic error after basic error. The team sees 4 or 5 changes from one game to the next, players who didn't even feature in the previous squad are in the starting eleven and players that have performed reasonably in the previous game don't even make the bench - it just smacks of desperation. Under those conditions how can any player understand what is expected from them or strive for any level of consistency. The players aren't helping Pardew's cause, making schoolboy errors and showing not even a hint of having the balls to be up for the fight but the root of so many of the problems on the pitch have to be laid at Pardew's door.
How, when we have eleven men back from a corner can half of the 8 men forward for the opposition still remain unmarked? Why is it so predictable that even if we do manage to scramble away the initial threat from a set piece that the second ball will fall to an opposition player in acres of space?
And when we're on the ball, there is no shape, no movement, no clue as to how to go about breaking down the opposition's defence. The player's need to take some of the responsibility for this but it is Pardew's job to give the team shape and a way of plaing that allows us to do this. He is looking utterly inept at organising us either defensively or when we're on the ball and that is simply unacceptable.
Prague, I have suspected this was the case. To me his interest in the job wained from the moment it became clear that we weren't going straight back up. I'm sure he considers himself a Premiership manager and doesn't want to waste too much time stuck in the Championship. One clearly has to question his motivation for constantly tinkering with the team, dropping players who have performed well and sticking with players who are not performing. To me, it seems like a deliberate ploy to destroy player confidence, which he seems to have now achieved. As for Parky, he has been an accomplice, and the tactics and coaching of players has been very poor. As such, he should be out as well. Allerdyce would be my choice, but If we need to look from within, I would look no further than Keithie, at least his heart would be in the job and he'd be honoured to do it.
[cite]Posted By: AFKABartram[/cite]
But this season has to be rescued while it still can be. Christ, it sounds ridiculous but with a run the play offs are still very much in play.
Parkinson was highly thought of for what he did at Colchester but you have to worry that as a senior part of the current coaching set up he is almost as much to blame as Pardew.
[cite]Posted By: PragueAddick[/cite]Up to now I'd been wary of calling for Pardew to go, mainly because kicking out managers after disappointing results is often a knee-jerk reaction, and often doesn't work. But I never thought we would fall this far so quickly. At the beginning of the season I was told by people close to the Club that Pardew was disrespected throughout, and considered to be in it only for the money. But I chose to give him the benefit of the doubt, and more importantly so did the Board. Pardew has responded by taking us lower, in every respect, than I ever dreamed possible. The Board has to get rid of him now, because the cost of relegation outweighs any compensation costs. I suppose that because of the finances we have to expect Parkinson will be put in charge. I have no idea what to expect from him. We just have to hope that Weegie Addick, above, is right.
I totally agree with AFKA, I have definitely been in the give him a chance camp, but after yesterday when a pretty average even poor Championship team come to the Valley and play with purpose, aggression and a pattern of play it puts us to shame. I always was of the mind that on the pitch it's down to players, but this season it's made me realise that if they're going out there with no plan or motivation doesn't matter how good you are. And that is ultimately the managers fault.
Just one thing I know it's probably for another thread and has been done to death but can people stop booing players like Josh Wright, jesus the young lad has only played a couple of games hardly his fault he's been thrown into this shambles. I don't think much of booing individual players during the game anyway but surely someone like Ambrose should get it, he probaly most talented, senior and highly paid player on the pitch where was he? Time for a few big players to step up.
This period of waiting for the obvious seems a total waste of time, I feel the board need to act now so we can start getting the talent that we do have to play as a cohesive team.
I can`t believe the board have not spoken about what happens if the worst comes to the worst and they have to sack Pardew. If it was going to happen then I feel that it was going to be yesterday evening or today latest. Interesting that they have not come out with the customary total support for the manager statement though !
Great point Nug. Josh Wright is a young player being thrown into a really sh!tty scenario - let's not destroy the kid's confidence before he's been given a chance....
Comments
Surely, in his heart of hearts, he must know he's f***ed it right up.
I can't believe for a second that he feels comfortable within himself at the moment...
Or perhaps the arrogance has got too much for him and he's blinded by it?
Strong stuff from you AFKA, however to draw an analogy for the outside world, he won't go himself just as Jonathan Ross won't either.
Both should now IMO and forsake any compensation.
If i have finally turned, then there really can't be many left who haven't.
But this season has to be rescued while it still can be. Christ, it sounds ridiculous but with a run the play offs are still very much in play.
But what we have at the moment is a team sinking faster than a political thread on here. It has nothing, it is a shell of a team. It has no heart, no backbone, no creativity and no goals. Its as much relegation material as Derby was in the Prem last year. It is his team, he has put this together, and he still has not a clue on how to set it out correctly to win games in this division.
We simply cannot sit back and let it happen.
I was there when we got relageted and we playeed Bristol Rovers away from home and I couldnt see where our next goal was coming from.... At leat with those players they tried, they knew what they did but wern't good enough.
Pardew has to go but we can't afford to let him go....
I will be there as a season ticket holder next year.. but i am afraid it will be in the 1st divison.
For those people who think the good times are around the corner, open up your eyes.
Our record under pardew is abysmul (and that is being polite).. so how is the good times round the corner when we have only one twice in TWELVE games. This time last year we were FIFTH and only stayed there as most clubs were poor !!
this is the WORSE side i have ever seen in the league to date.
I have gone past hope. I have given up on hope and are waiting for us to go down !!
Paul
Strong, strong words, AFKA. You have often tried (in the gentlest, most reasoned way) to keep in check some of the more hot-headed voices on here, and so I know with what a heavy heart you must say what you have just said.
But you are right. A shell of a team with no heart, no backbone, no creativity and no goals.
And it's one man's team. He put it together (with obvious constraints, but there's 23 other teams in the championship, most of them operating under even tighter constraints). Having put it together he has no idea how to make it work. It's an utterly dysfunctional team that under his (lack of) direction, is degenerating before our eyes and which, as you say, has no more hope of turning it around than Derby last season.
That said, we are still only ten points off the play-off places ("only" 10 points - it might as well be 100 when we have failed to win back-to-back games for almost a year).
Someone else might be able to turn it around with this squad of players.I don't know who that someone could or should be. But frankly, anyone would be preferable right now, because just about anyone is more likely to give us our Charlton back than AP.
If having slept on it, he's still insisting in the morning, ''I'm not going anywhere'', then the board has to act decisively and immediately and tell him ''oh yes you are.''
He should not be allowed to take training on Monday morning. I really think he has to be shown the door that fast.
I agree with you, I know that it is you or your section that start the Charlton Till I Die chant. I have never doubted your loyalty.
I have posted on here tonight on another thread "Changing Your Manager" much the same with your Derby last season analogy.
If we don't change at the top, nothing will change on the field, however we do not want to go out of the Frying Pan into the Fire as we did exactly 2 years ago. If we change it must be a proper one, a professional one, without sentiment as before.
Again as I said on the above metioned thread, I do not have the answer.
I had very high hopes for Pards' tenure as gaffer, particularly with Dowie in the rear-view mirror, but this is an abomination. Under tough circumstances, the management of the team, to my mind, has provided Pardew with the talent needed to be, at worst, competitive in this league. Through three months, he appears to have squandered his resources.
That's the only chance anyone you support has of winning anything next week!
I honestly think even the ghastly hockey mom would do a better job managing Charlton than AP is doing at the moment...
Pardew created this team and can't get results out of it. He has run out of options to try, and from what I see doesn't motivate the players into showing what they can be. Yes we are too lightweight for this division at times, but I still believe that this squad is better than 21st.
Instead we offered no threat at all. They said it looked to them like the players didn't want to play for Pardew.
Whether he's a good manager or not, we are in a terminal slide which he himself has tried to arrest over the past few games. He's proved that he's not capable of doing so. So the only option is to change things whilst there's still time to recover.
This squad is certainly good enough for a top six place, but the truth is with Pardew in charge they don't know if they're coming or going. Even if they play well one week the chances are they'll be dropped the next.
That Barnsley side yesterday was unchanged for about five games on the trot and they are starting to gell. Pardew has had almost two years and still doesn't think that someone like Semedo should be playing week in week out. More frustratingly he takes every opportunity to say what a great player he is.
The guy is a wind up merchant.
This is how I feel. I hate disloyalty but enough is enough. I could have coped with an inconsistent season but the play is just going from bad to worse. I cannot see how he can make this team whole again, because it's rotten at it's core. Sorry but there it is.
I was very happy when we got him in 2006 and I felt we had a manager who was more than capable of staving off the drop or getting us back up if the worst occured, we were relatively ok until this February but since then its essentialy been one calamity after another.
Yesterday against Barnsley, one of the few teams that we were above in the table we were shambolic and looked very low on confidence, slow to react, second to practically every ball and essentially outclassed at home. We look dire right now, ultimately like a team who unless something is done for the good of all and call time on Pardew's tenure will be in league 1 come August and all the club would have achieved in the last 16 years on the field all but wiped out.
Contract or otherwise I feel that the board has to act now for the greater good, I can't see him resigning.
We simply cannot afford to keep him any longer.
Ok, so we all agree that the board hasn't got the money to pay-off Pardew in a lump sum without raiding the January transfer funds. What we can do is to stick him on gardening leave and give Parkinson the job. After all, he was the one we were after initially to replace Curbs until Colchester said we couldn't speak to him. The big question, is "Do the players respect and want to play for Parky?"
Derek & Richard, it's over to you....
I've not called for the head of a Charlton manager ever before in my 21 years or so of wacthing them but now Pardew has to go. Since he took charge he's steered us to relegation from the Prem, midtable mediocrity in the Championship and now a relegation battle which though it's too early to say we're in, is a far more realistic prospect than it should be.
Pards was probably given more spending power than just about any other manager in this division last season and though it was tough to adjust to a complete squad overhaul in just one year, he completely under achieved. That he was forced to sell players in the summer was not something that was completely out of his hands as he wasted more than his fair share of our limited funds last season, bringing in a ludicrous number of loan signings to replace his own, expensive, under performing signings.
And now, panic after panic. Basic error after basic error. The team sees 4 or 5 changes from one game to the next, players who didn't even feature in the previous squad are in the starting eleven and players that have performed reasonably in the previous game don't even make the bench - it just smacks of desperation. Under those conditions how can any player understand what is expected from them or strive for any level of consistency. The players aren't helping Pardew's cause, making schoolboy errors and showing not even a hint of having the balls to be up for the fight but the root of so many of the problems on the pitch have to be laid at Pardew's door.
How, when we have eleven men back from a corner can half of the 8 men forward for the opposition still remain unmarked? Why is it so predictable that even if we do manage to scramble away the initial threat from a set piece that the second ball will fall to an opposition player in acres of space?
And when we're on the ball, there is no shape, no movement, no clue as to how to go about breaking down the opposition's defence. The player's need to take some of the responsibility for this but it is Pardew's job to give the team shape and a way of plaing that allows us to do this. He is looking utterly inept at organising us either defensively or when we're on the ball and that is simply unacceptable.
As for Parky, he has been an accomplice, and the tactics and coaching of players has been very poor. As such, he should be out as well.
Allerdyce would be my choice, but If we need to look from within, I would look no further than Keithie, at least his heart would be in the job and he'd be honoured to do it.
you sound like pards
I agree with all of that.
Just one thing I know it's probably for another thread and has been done to death but can people stop booing players like Josh Wright, jesus the young lad has only played a couple of games hardly his fault he's been thrown into this shambles. I don't think much of booing individual players during the game anyway but surely someone like Ambrose should get it, he probaly most talented, senior and highly paid player on the pitch where was he? Time for a few big players to step up.