[cite]Posted By: LenGlover[/cite]Steve Brown said on the radio that Palace wanted it more than Charlton.
The job of a manager is to get the players to play effectively.
Whilst a lot of you hated and resented Curbishley nobody can deny that the players were effective under him. Some may not have regarded it as entertaining but it was effective.
Pardew needs to motivate his team better that is crystal clear fact not criticism.
There is a world of difference between knowing that the time was right for Curbishley to go and hating and resenting him Len.
Why is it that you and certain others can't see that?
I can see that.
It is a fact though that posters here (and netaddicks previously) have accused Curbishley of never being "Charlton" and intimated that Gritty would have done what he did given the chance.
Hence my choice of words.
I love Gritty and that photo of him after the St Andrews play off says it all but you don't need to bad mouth Curbs to appreciate Gritty.
taking it to the extreme. I don't know anyone that would use the word "hate" against curbs. everyone appreciates what he did for Charlton in his time with the club. they may not "love him" but to use hate, would be ridiculous.
On reflection "hate" may be too strong. "Dislike" is perhaps better.
[cite]Posted By: Addick Addict[/cite]Some of us are old enough to remember (and yearn for) the truly great days back in the 70s - the ones with Killer, Paddy, Pee Wee, Flash, Robbo etc etc , the ones where we had to score 5 away from home just to get a point, the ones where no two games were the same........ah such memories.
I was at that one.
20 minutes to go and we were winning 4-2 and we still managed to get a draw.
[cite]Posted By: Addick Addict[/cite]Some of us are old enough to remember (and yearn for) the truly great days back in the 70s - the ones with Killer, Paddy, Pee Wee, Flash, Robbo etc etc , the ones where we had to score 5 away from home just to get a point, the ones where no two games were the same........ah such memories.
I was at that one.
20 minutes to go and we were winning 4-2 and we still managed to get a draw.
I went to that one, Burnley away, 4-1 up, 20 minutes left, and we actually nearly lost
whole point of my post was that back then - even going back just 10 years- we didn't go away to Burney, Cardiff etc etc and play with just 1 man up front.
we played atatcking football - Powell & Robbo( Martin) on the wings - Killer/Flash/Walsh (Paul) in attack.
can you see someone asking Killer to play up fron on his own ?????? likely to get lynched.
I'm not saying that we didn't. I remeber playing with Leaburn up front with Brendan O'Connell in the "hole" and also having to play with Phil Chappell as an emergency striker, but surely we have moved on from there?
We have 6 strikers at the club - Varney, Gray, toddy, Dickson, Fleetwood & McLeod and only Mclead could be deemed as not being match fit. can we not find a pairing amongst these that could score more than once in 2 games ?
[cite]Posted By: golfaddick[/cite]I'm not saying that we didn't. I remeber playing with Leaburn up front with Brendan O'Connell in the "hole" and also having to play with Phil Chappell as an emergency striker, but surely we have moved on from there?
We have 6 strikers at the club - Varney, Gray, toddy, Dickson, Fleetwood & McLeod and only Mclead could be deemed as not being match fit. can we not find a pairing amongst these that could score more than once in 2 games ?
Yes, Fleetwood and McLeod is the way forward and not just for all the Fleetwood Mac puns either. Pace, power, finishing.
[cite]Posted By: Addick Addict[/cite]Some of us are old enough to remember (and yearn for) the truly great days back in the 70s - the ones with Killer, Paddy, Pee Wee, Flash, Robbo etc etc , the ones where we had to score 5 away from home just to get a point, the ones where no two games were the same........ah such memories.
I was at that one.
20 minutes to go and we were winning 4-2 and we still managed to get a draw.
I went to that one, Burnley away, 4-1 up, 20 minutes left, and we actually nearly lost
I remember the Bristol Rovers 5-5 and the Burnley 4-4.
I was also at Hillsborough when we truly did snatch defeat from the jaws of victory..... 4-1 up
midway through the 2nd half - and contrived to lose 5-4.
but that's the point - we couldn't defend but we would always try to attack our way out of trouble. Now all we do is defend and not very well at that.
I'll make the point again - look at how Reading are set up and how they attack teams. They came unstuck against us but, more often than not, they will get a result and will entertain to boot. You don't score 30 goals in 10 games by fluke.
And before anyone starts talking about us not spending money spent and lost players. Reading signed Stephen Hunt and Kevin Doyle for nothing. They sold, pre season, Shorey and Kitson who were fixtures in their starting line up.
So why can't we be like Reading now and CAFC in the 70s? At least we'd be entertained if nothing else!
Because if it was as easy as Pards saying "Lets play like Reading" or "Lets play like CAFC of the 70's" or "Lloyd, play like Ronaldo tonight" and it just happened then football would be a very very very boring game.
[quote][cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]but we were in division three for 3 seasons.[/quote]
OK so let's stick with 4-5-1 and sneak a win or two along the way. 6 defeats in 10 games says to me it ain't working Pards way so why shouldn't we try to be more attacking? Or are we really that scared of losing?
[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]but we were in division three for 3 seasons.
OK so let's stick with 4-5-1 and sneak a win or two along the way. 6 defeats in 10 games says to me it ain't working Pards way so why shouldn't we try to be more attacking? Or are we really that scared of losing?
Who said that? Certainly not me.
I'm all for attacking football but as Keegan and Ardiles showed it doesn't always mean victories or success and neither did it in 1972-1975.
I actually said on another thread that Pardew should play the football he says wants to ie on the front foot with pace and more pace. Thing is when that results in a defeat he will then get pilloried for no tactical nous and not building a solid side from the back with a good defence.
we're not talking anout Keegan and Ardiles as that's not a like for like comparison. The Coppell and Reading scenario is especially given that last night's Reading team cost in total virtually as much as we paid for Varney alone.
You have to score goals to win games and we aren't doing it the way we play or with the players that are being picked.
[quote][cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite][quote][cite]Posted By: Addick Addict[/cite][quote][cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]but we were in division three for 3 seasons.[/quote]
and so were Reading a few seasons back but Coppell's philosophy never changed whatever division they were in.[/quote]
I think you'll find that Coppell wasn't Reading Manager when they got promoted out of the third tier (div 3 in old money) in 2001/2
Do you want to have a guess who was?[/quote]
that being the case we've got just the man in situ to get us out of League 1 when we go down - with crowds of 5,000 watching our vibrant style of football.
[cite]Posted By: GolfAddick[/cite]whole point of my post was that back then - even going back just 10 years- we didn't go away to Burney, Cardiff etc etc and play with just 1 man up front.
No, we went to Burnley, didn't have a single shot on target, and chanted for Curbs to be sacked and to be replaced with Billy Bonds........
[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]but we were in division three for 3 seasons.
and so were Reading a few seasons back but Coppell's philosophy never changed whatever division they were in.
I think you'll find that Coppell wasn't Reading Manager when they got promoted out of the third tier (div 3 in old money) in 2001/2
Do you want to have a guess who was?
that being the case we've got just the man in situ to get us out of League 1 when we go down - with crowds of 5,000 watching our vibrant style of football.
Especially as he got that same side to the CCC play offs the next season.
Come on at least admit you were slightly embarressed over the Coppell error. : - )
[cite]Posted By: AFKABartram[/cite]
[cite]Posted By: GolfAddick[/cite]whole point of my post was that back then - even going back just 10 years- we didn't go away to Burney, Cardiff etc etc and play with just 1 man up front.
No, we went to Burnley, didn't have a single shot on target, and chanted for Curbs to be sacked and to be replaced with Billy Bonds........
Pardew added: "In the second half we did not start well again and they stepped on to us. We went away from our gameplan, and that was disappointing in terms of what we were trying to achieve. We were trying small passes which were cut out, and we were inviting pressure.
So is it the players who are choosing to hoof it long or are they playing to AP's instructions?
"Come on at least admit you were slightly embarressed over the Coppell error. : - )"
Definitely but infinitely less than I am about our negative style of football and inability to score goals. Funny thing is all my neutral friends who saw the Reading game can't understand why we're doing so badly. There again, it was Coppell's fault for making us look good by playing 4-4-2 and for having no tactical nous.
30 goals in 10 games for a team that cost less than £2,500,000 must be awful ; - )
PS He's even sent Lita out on loan to Norwich- surprised Pards didn't step in first.
[cite]Posted By: Addick Addict[/cite]4-4-2 might be a start.
Couldn't agree more. We seem to have an anti-Cluff for a manager. In that rather than taking mediocre players and making them world class as Cluffy did, we seem to have a manager who has some good players and manages to inspire them to new lows!!! Just look at Iwelumo at Wolves. He seems to be flying now and he's the same player we had. I can only put that down to man management, getting your message across and motivation. It would seem, on face value, Alan Pardew does not have these skills.
Perhaps it's me just being down about last nights result, but many of the players, with the exception of Weaver, Bailey, Holland and Youga, simply did not look up for it last night. Even after half time things were flat and we were out played by a mediocre team. I would have thought that during half time Pardew would of managed to get his message across and motivate the players to come out and give there all. It didn't seem to happen and that is a disservice to the 3K fans that made their way over to Selhurst. Having said this Pardew did get the subs right, but why Sam started in the first place and why he made the change so late is anybodys guess. I will of course be there on Saturday to cheer them on in the hope that things get put right between now and Saturday, but I will not be holding my breath.
If we play like we did last night, against an Ipswich side that I've seen twice this season and they can play very fluid attacking football on the deck, we'll get mullered. I'm not expecting miracles or total football. As a Charlton fan I'm a realist and do not expect to win every game and am hapy if we grind results out, but at the very least I do expect all the players to give 110%, be fully commited, role up their sleaves and put their bodies on the line. Bailey typifies that and I'd rather have 11 of him that are honest than the likes of Sam. Players that want to work for the manager. That did not happen last night and Pardew needs to let the players know that and get them more suitably prepared for games. If that does not happen then fans will start voting with their feet. I myself are questioning whether to bother going to the next away game and that is something I did not think would happen.
So Mr Pardew....if you read this board...get some real fighting spirit back into the team. This is the peoples club after all with a rich history and when the team crosses that game line they should wear the shirt with pride and fight for the cause. Whilst I think of it perhaps the current crop of players should be shown the history of the club....it might help if they know what they are fighting for.
Comments
On reflection "hate" may be too strong. "Dislike" is perhaps better.
20 minutes to go and we were winning 4-2 and we still managed to get a draw.
I went to that one, Burnley away, 4-1 up, 20 minutes left, and we actually nearly lost
we played atatcking football - Powell & Robbo( Martin) on the wings - Killer/Flash/Walsh (Paul) in attack.
can you see someone asking Killer to play up fron on his own ?????? likely to get lynched.
You've remember the good, and forgotten a lot of the rubbish that was also about during those time.
I'll raise you a Tom Hovi
We have 6 strikers at the club - Varney, Gray, toddy, Dickson, Fleetwood & McLeod and only Mclead could be deemed as not being match fit. can we not find a pairing amongst these that could score more than once in 2 games ?
Yes, Fleetwood and McLeod is the way forward and not just for all the Fleetwood Mac puns either. Pace, power, finishing.
I remember the Bristol Rovers 5-5 and the Burnley 4-4.
I was also at Hillsborough when we truly did snatch defeat from the jaws of victory..... 4-1 up
midway through the 2nd half - and contrived to lose 5-4.
Ah, the good old days ............
4 years of feast and 40 of f**k all
we still aint Gooners tho.
I'll make the point again - look at how Reading are set up and how they attack teams. They came unstuck against us but, more often than not, they will get a result and will entertain to boot. You don't score 30 goals in 10 games by fluke.
And before anyone starts talking about us not spending money spent and lost players. Reading signed Stephen Hunt and Kevin Doyle for nothing. They sold, pre season, Shorey and Kitson who were fixtures in their starting line up.
So why can't we be like Reading now and CAFC in the 70s? At least we'd be entertained if nothing else!
OK so let's stick with 4-5-1 and sneak a win or two along the way. 6 defeats in 10 games says to me it ain't working Pards way so why shouldn't we try to be more attacking? Or are we really that scared of losing?
and so were Reading a few seasons back but Coppell's philosophy never changed whatever division they were in.
Who said that? Certainly not me.
I'm all for attacking football but as Keegan and Ardiles showed it doesn't always mean victories or success and neither did it in 1972-1975.
I actually said on another thread that Pardew should play the football he says wants to ie on the front foot with pace and more pace. Thing is when that results in a defeat he will then get pilloried for no tactical nous and not building a solid side from the back with a good defence.
You have to score goals to win games and we aren't doing it the way we play or with the players that are being picked.
I think you'll find that Coppell wasn't Reading Manager when they got promoted out of the third tier (div 3 in old money) in 2001/2
Do you want to have a guess who was?
and so were Reading a few seasons back but Coppell's philosophy never changed whatever division they were in.[/quote]
I think you'll find that Coppell wasn't Reading Manager when they got promoted out of the third tier (div 3 in old money) in 2001/2
Do you want to have a guess who was?[/quote]
that being the case we've got just the man in situ to get us out of League 1 when we go down - with crowds of 5,000 watching our vibrant style of football.
No, we went to Burnley, didn't have a single shot on target, and chanted for Curbs to be sacked and to be replaced with Billy Bonds........
Especially as he got that same side to the CCC play offs the next season.
Come on at least admit you were slightly embarressed over the Coppell error. : - )
Good point. What's Bonzo doing these days? : - )
So is it the players who are choosing to hoof it long or are they playing to AP's instructions?
Definitely but infinitely less than I am about our negative style of football and inability to score goals. Funny thing is all my neutral friends who saw the Reading game can't understand why we're doing so badly. There again, it was Coppell's fault for making us look good by playing 4-4-2 and for having no tactical nous.
30 goals in 10 games for a team that cost less than £2,500,000 must be awful ; - )
PS He's even sent Lita out on loan to Norwich- surprised Pards didn't step in first.
Couldn't agree more. We seem to have an anti-Cluff for a manager. In that rather than taking mediocre players and making them world class as Cluffy did, we seem to have a manager who has some good players and manages to inspire them to new lows!!! Just look at Iwelumo at Wolves. He seems to be flying now and he's the same player we had. I can only put that down to man management, getting your message across and motivation. It would seem, on face value, Alan Pardew does not have these skills.
Perhaps it's me just being down about last nights result, but many of the players, with the exception of Weaver, Bailey, Holland and Youga, simply did not look up for it last night. Even after half time things were flat and we were out played by a mediocre team. I would have thought that during half time Pardew would of managed to get his message across and motivate the players to come out and give there all. It didn't seem to happen and that is a disservice to the 3K fans that made their way over to Selhurst. Having said this Pardew did get the subs right, but why Sam started in the first place and why he made the change so late is anybodys guess. I will of course be there on Saturday to cheer them on in the hope that things get put right between now and Saturday, but I will not be holding my breath.
If we play like we did last night, against an Ipswich side that I've seen twice this season and they can play very fluid attacking football on the deck, we'll get mullered. I'm not expecting miracles or total football. As a Charlton fan I'm a realist and do not expect to win every game and am hapy if we grind results out, but at the very least I do expect all the players to give 110%, be fully commited, role up their sleaves and put their bodies on the line. Bailey typifies that and I'd rather have 11 of him that are honest than the likes of Sam. Players that want to work for the manager. That did not happen last night and Pardew needs to let the players know that and get them more suitably prepared for games. If that does not happen then fans will start voting with their feet. I myself are questioning whether to bother going to the next away game and that is something I did not think would happen.
So Mr Pardew....if you read this board...get some real fighting spirit back into the team. This is the peoples club after all with a rich history and when the team crosses that game line they should wear the shirt with pride and fight for the cause. Whilst I think of it perhaps the current crop of players should be shown the history of the club....it might help if they know what they are fighting for.