Off_it is right. Counting to ten before posting or not posting straight after the match would help as everyone's a bit emotional after a loss.
We lost a game against a good side, that's no biggie. We were looking fine until the pen, but needed to take our chances. We didn't, they did. It's nothing to crucify anyone over.
[cite]Posted By: boggzy[/cite]I still think at least we kept trying for a goal when conceding - which is positive. Sam's best work was defensive, he seemed to do the wrong thing a lot of the time when getting the ball on the wing.
I agree about Sam. He just needs to learn to make the right choices. I guess that will come with confidence/exerience.
So how good were Wolves then ? there was a huge hole right down the middle of the midfield. sometimes with 3 wolves players running into it with no one challanging until they were almost in the area. Bailey had 3 on him sometimes. Thought the right team won and we were crap.
[cite]Posted By: Rothko[/cite]We were beaten by a better side, but some people on here are too thick to accept that, and have there tossy agendas to throw about.
I'm sick of this message board anyway, so I'm going to give it a miss for a while.
Typical comment from you...people have a different opinion and they are "thick". Good, go and when you come back, stop acting like a spoilt child.
Oh, and it's "their " tossy agendas. Are you thick?..
Thanks for your concern, and I'll come back when you stop fighting the battle of the boyne, so it could be a long time xx
Come on chaps football is a game of opinion.
I'll chuck this one into the mix. Bailey is a Kish who can shoot-discuss.
I thought that although Wolves are a good side they wanted it a bit more than us, during the last 10 mins we looked gone but their players were busting a gut, and that appears to be a problem with the manager and the fitness coaches more than anything else.
Some of Pardews tactics and substitutions do baffle me.
Varney looked like he might have been playing with an injury, looked like Ambrose was going to replace him in the first half (started stripping off etc), what sort of message that sends out to Dicko is beyond me, yet when he actually did make some subs in the second half Ambrose would have been first on the list for me to replace Sam yet he brings on another left back when we needed the extra firepower???
Pardew has had over a season to get a proper right back and still cant do it (Crainie at fault for the second goal and offered absolutely nothing going forward, but hey lets blame Lloyd Sam) Youga isnt good enough. Hudson doesnt quite appear to be the leader of men we were sold. Sam is having any confidence sucked out of him by the crowd a la Lisbie. Nelson and Gray arent going to score enough goals.
Felt sorry for Bailey yesterday, early days but he looks like he could go on a become a proper Charlton player (kinsella, Brown like), really really like him, my sort of player.
Personally I would bring Ambrose and ZZ into the team as soon as they are 100% fit and available. We need to pick up a couple of points this week so would even be tempted to bring Ambrose in the middle just behind Gray in a 4-5-1 and put Varney on the wing again.
And can the glass half empties and glass half fulls stop bickering please, its tedious, and we should be able to have a proper thread without name calling even after a defeat.
I don't know much about the game - I only listened to the 2nd half commentary.
What I do know is that getting the knives out for the manager is just stupid. Some Wolves fans had them out for McCarthy some time back. It just proves that you need patience. Give a decent manager (and Pards has proved to be good elsewhere) time and eventually he'll get it right. How long have the Wolves fans had to wait - longer than 2 years, that's for sure.
The thing about these arguments is that it really isn't a question of who's 'right' and who's 'wrong'. Everyone is entitled to their opinion - it's a democracy after all. There are, however, certain posters on this board who obviously have some sort of agenda re: Pardew - witness the fact that they are instantly on the board within nanoseconds of every defeat spouting bollocks about Pardew being useless, the board being useless, the players being useless and the spotty oiks with glue in their hair serving at the bar at half time being useless. Apart from the latter, none of the others is accurate. If they ever, even occasionally, posted something positive about the club, then their ill-conceived rants could be understood. They don't - therefore they are fair game for ridicule in my eyes.
I could not in the slightest be termed an 'optimist' - in any facet of my life. I've always been a glass half empty kind of bloke. What really gets my goat is not so much the fact that people want to have a moan about grim performances, but that every single one of the tools that I've come across - either on this board or at the Valley, has zero constructive points to make, brings zero credibility on themselves or the club with their bile and, from what I've heard and read, knows zero about football anyway.
Nobody expects everyone to be a rattle waving, scarf-wearing "get behind the team no matter what" evangelist. By the same token, no-one wants to listen to/read about the same ill-informed opinions from small, petty-minded individuals who so obviously have an axe to grind with either the club, certain players or the managerial staff. THAT is why I'm pissed off with certain posters and individuals that sit near me, and THAT is why I and, i suspect, more than a few other posters on here are annoyed enough to be demonstrable about it.
I didn't think there was much in it yesterday and we could easily been two up when they got a dodgy penalty. Clearly the pen. galvanised them and deflated us and they came very strong at the end. It's all about opinions but I have seen nothing about Hudson to warrant any criticism. Frankly he has been outstanding this season from first to last kick. Sam works hard covers well defensively. He just needs to be bolder in attack. Bailey's a brilliant signing. Bouazza is a typical engmatic winger but good on his day. Cranie needs more time, Youga needs a kick up the cul, Fortune is a much better player than most give him credit, Holland is....Holland, Varney is on the verge of something special, Gray works tirelessly with some skill, Weaver looks to have lost some weight and gained some assurance. ZZ and Tody are to come, and Ambrose could make a difference. Then there is the promise of Jonjo. Lets not slash our wrists too early, for one, it won't help anything and two, we need to get behind the team who's confidence is fragile to say the least.
Yassin in for Cranie, Cranie in the centre alongside Hudson, Basey instead of Youga, ZZ or Ambrose alongside Bailey in the middle and give Dicko a chance up front.
[cite]Posted By: Leroy Ambrose[/cite]The thing about these arguments is that it really isn't a question of who's 'right' and who's 'wrong'. Everyone is entitled to their opinion - it's a democracy after all. There are, however, certain posters on this board who obviously have some sort of agenda re: Pardew - witness the fact that they are instantly on the board within nanoseconds of every defeat spouting bollocks about Pardew being useless, the board being useless, the players being useless and the spotty oiks with glue in their hair serving at the bar at half time being useless. Apart from the latter, none of the others is accurate. If they ever, even occasionally, posted something positive about the club, then their ill-conceived rants could be understood. They don't - therefore they are fair game for ridicule in my eyes.
I could not in the slightest be termed an 'optimist' - in any facet of my life. I've always been a glass half empty kind of bloke. What really gets my goat is not so much the fact that people want to have a moan about grim performances, but that every single one of the tools that I've come across - either on this board or at the Valley, has zero constructive points to make, brings zero credibility on themselves or the club with their bile and, from what I've heard and read, knows zero about football anyway.
Nobody expects everyone to be a rattle waving, scarf-wearing "get behind the team no matter what" evangelist. By the same token, no-one wants to listen to/read about the same ill-informed opinions from small, petty-minded individuals who so obviously have an axe to grind with either the club, certain players or the managerial staff. THAT is why I'm pissed off with certain posters and individuals that sit near me, and THAT is why I and, i suspect, more than a few other posters on here are annoyed enough to be demonstrable about it.
Absolutely spot on Mr Ambrose. Agree with everything you say there - so much so that I had to double check that I hadn't written it myself!
I remember when I was a kid I used to take every game, every bad performance, every defeat all so very seriously. As I've got older I've learnt to keep my eye on the bigger picture and not get too worked up when we win or lose or put in the odd bad performance or completely wipe the floor with someone. I think it's all part of maturing and being an adult.
Now, I would completely defend someones right to have a bitch and a moan every so often, but as you say, it seems the same old people keep on regurgitating the same old hackneyed agenda EVERY time we lose. I wouldn't mind but they offer nothing constructive - it's just all negative ALL the time.
I've got a five year old boy and I wouldn't expect a reaction from him like some of the ones you get on here sometimes. All very tiresome.
Interesting to note Iwelumo's comments about the crowd getting on the back of the Charlton players last season when things didn't go well. The "I paid my money so I'll boo" brigade deny that booing has an effect. Sometimes that may be true, but when confidence is fragile it clearly doesn't help. I'd hate it if players like Shelvey, Basey, Youga etc who are inexperienced will end up leaving Charlton and cite the hostility of an unforgiving crowd.
[cite]Posted By: BlackForestReds[/cite]Interesting to note Iwelumo's comments about the crowd getting on the back of the Charlton players last season when things didn't go well. The "I paid my money so I'll boo" brigade deny that booing has an effect. Sometimes that may be true, but when confidence is fragile it clearly doesn't help. I'd hate it if players like Shelvey, Basey, Youga etc who are inexperienced will end up leaving Charlton and cite the hostility of an unforgiving crowd.
The fact is that certain company will always be present. No matter how many oppose those reactions.
I spent most of the second half just shouting encouragement to Sam, as everyone else around me in the East were slaughtering him everytime he lost the ball. I'd put him in your list of players that that kind of discouragement could hurt in the long run.
i think i am one on here who dosent ever post negatively however i drew great concern that Pardew and the mgmt team failed to notice that the game was slipping away.
we were getting dominated by Keogh he was free to pick the ball from the air take a touch and lay it off, alternativly he could just win flick ons unchallenged all day,
Sam did what all game we needed more width and guile,
we needed A more attack minded centre forward Varney made one excellent run in the 2nd half from wide and tried to lay a difficult ball into the box that was just behind bouazza i think but he should have kept goin and get a shot off becasue they were shitting it,
the change was simple Sam for Dicko Varney out wide,
to deal with the attacking option from wolves youga off basey on allowing forts and hudson to concentrate on their own men and not how youga was doing and when he was going to be in the wrong position or just let the wide man through,
however 70 odd mins was too late that needed to be done just after the halftime restart ( youga would not have reappeared for me )
we was pish poor Wolves were not a far better team than us, they were made too look better due to our in abilty to make decent decisions when in possesion of the ball and our complete failure to pick up a man bossing the game
oh yeah and our managers in abilty and reluctunce to change something which is what imo he is paid for and should have done the buck stops with him on this one
that starting 11 was as good as wolves i didnt think gray did much upfront but he did allow us to hold the ball up and for some reason make their 2 centre backs have to earn any headers, wrong subs wrong time obviously wrong tactics or maybe just maybe we got the wrong big nose
Better team, holding them until pen, bailey one man midfield and couldn't do on his own.
Needed the 2nd goal and it didn't come. Ref was dying to give the pen but can't blame the defeat on the officials.
Need someone alongside Bailey to help him out and to link with the forwards and need the FBs and wingers to work out how to play with each other.
For that reason wouldn't make wholesale changes but when ZZ is fit I hope he is playing instead of Holland. Matt is a great pro and prefect to bring some calm and experience with 10 mins to go but no longer 90 mins against the form side in the division.
And Rothko "still fighting the Battle of the Boyne" Classic mate, classic
So much to digest in this thread, Better team won end of story for me. Still enjoyed the game & that's what I go for to enjoy it. Roll on Tuesday night, cant wait.
Interesting that a few have mentioned Holland, I actually thought he had one of his better games.
I agree with most on here regarding the substitutions, I simply don't understand what Pardew is doing sometimes. Why switch everyone around when the simply option was to make a straight swap, Sam off, Ambrose on. As for the post above about Ambrose not giving as an attacking threat, what are you on? Look at how many goals he scores from midfield and how many assists he gets.
I agree with the post about Cranie. I accept that he needs time to settle but is he really any better than Semedo?
Surprised no-one else has mentioned it but what was Weaver doing for the 3rd goal?? Thought he was very hit and miss. Made one very good save but then twice made a save only to push the ball straight to a wolves player to score. Lino saved us the first time, second one wraped up the points.
I think it all came down to a lack of clinical decision making and finishing up front. There were two moments in the first half when Bouazza raced through and could have put in Sam/Varney one-on-one but elected to shoot instead. Also Varney missing a chance. Could've put the game beyond them before they had a chance to answer back.
For me, it's becoming plainly obvious that Varney isn't going to get the goals we need from him, although I still rate him as a player. Also Gray. Apart from penalties, am I right in saying they have one goal between them this season?
Agree with all your points, Barn Door - Weaver looked as shaky v Swansea, but I gave him the benefit of the doubt then because of the rain. No such excuse Saturday.
Would also add that, although I'm not Gray's biggest fan, I didn't understand the logic in replacing him with Dickson - Gray was winning some stuff in the air and gave a bit of shape to the attack, which we lost with him going off. Fair enough to bring Dicko and his fresh legs on, but would have taken Sam or Buzz off and pushed Varney wide.
Noticed they made a point on the championship yesterday of showing all the early leavers at the game on saturday. cant have to many gripes v wolves, good to see a team with genuine width and looking to use wingers and cross a football unlike us!! my only down point would be what does Pards say at half time?? "right lads, 1 nil up lets sit back and hold the game, dont bother trying to push forward and getting the saftey of another goal" because of last term i have no real pipe dreams so just looking forward to the next match now.
[quote][cite]Posted By: WSS[/cite]Gray is good, he is the only player able to win the ball, hold it up and bring other players into play - and we need that.[/quote]
Fair point the problem is a lot of it is wasted as too often Gray and Varney play too far apart. I think we will see the benifits of Gray when we have someone like Ambrose or ZZ making runs from the middle.
Comments
We lost a game against a good side, that's no biggie. We were looking fine until the pen, but needed to take our chances. We didn't, they did. It's nothing to crucify anyone over.
I agree about Sam. He just needs to learn to make the right choices. I guess that will come with confidence/exerience.
As for Pards just dont get his subs at all.
It looked to me as though Fortune took Ebanks-Blake in the first half but that they switched it when Keogh started running at them in the second half.
When Vokes came on I don't think any of them knew who should be picking him up!
Come on chaps football is a game of opinion.
I'll chuck this one into the mix. Bailey is a Kish who can shoot-discuss.
Some of Pardews tactics and substitutions do baffle me.
Varney looked like he might have been playing with an injury, looked like Ambrose was going to replace him in the first half (started stripping off etc), what sort of message that sends out to Dicko is beyond me, yet when he actually did make some subs in the second half Ambrose would have been first on the list for me to replace Sam yet he brings on another left back when we needed the extra firepower???
Pardew has had over a season to get a proper right back and still cant do it (Crainie at fault for the second goal and offered absolutely nothing going forward, but hey lets blame Lloyd Sam)
Youga isnt good enough.
Hudson doesnt quite appear to be the leader of men we were sold.
Sam is having any confidence sucked out of him by the crowd a la Lisbie.
Nelson and Gray arent going to score enough goals.
Felt sorry for Bailey yesterday, early days but he looks like he could go on a become a proper Charlton player (kinsella, Brown like), really really like him, my sort of player.
Personally I would bring Ambrose and ZZ into the team as soon as they are 100% fit and available. We need to pick up a couple of points this week so would even be tempted to bring Ambrose in the middle just behind Gray in a 4-5-1 and put Varney on the wing again.
And can the glass half empties and glass half fulls stop bickering please, its tedious, and we should be able to have a proper thread without name calling even after a defeat.
What I do know is that getting the knives out for the manager is just stupid. Some Wolves fans had them out for McCarthy some time back. It just proves that you need patience. Give a decent manager (and Pards has proved to be good elsewhere) time and eventually he'll get it right. How long have the Wolves fans had to wait - longer than 2 years, that's for sure.
I could not in the slightest be termed an 'optimist' - in any facet of my life. I've always been a glass half empty kind of bloke. What really gets my goat is not so much the fact that people want to have a moan about grim performances, but that every single one of the tools that I've come across - either on this board or at the Valley, has zero constructive points to make, brings zero credibility on themselves or the club with their bile and, from what I've heard and read, knows zero about football anyway.
Nobody expects everyone to be a rattle waving, scarf-wearing "get behind the team no matter what" evangelist. By the same token, no-one wants to listen to/read about the same ill-informed opinions from small, petty-minded individuals who so obviously have an axe to grind with either the club, certain players or the managerial staff. THAT is why I'm pissed off with certain posters and individuals that sit near me, and THAT is why I and, i suspect, more than a few other posters on here are annoyed enough to be demonstrable about it.
Some things never change.
We could play Man U off the park and some wouldn't be happy.
LOL
Absolutely spot on Mr Ambrose. Agree with everything you say there - so much so that I had to double check that I hadn't written it myself!
I remember when I was a kid I used to take every game, every bad performance, every defeat all so very seriously. As I've got older I've learnt to keep my eye on the bigger picture and not get too worked up when we win or lose or put in the odd bad performance or completely wipe the floor with someone. I think it's all part of maturing and being an adult.
Now, I would completely defend someones right to have a bitch and a moan every so often, but as you say, it seems the same old people keep on regurgitating the same old hackneyed agenda EVERY time we lose. I wouldn't mind but they offer nothing constructive - it's just all negative ALL the time.
I've got a five year old boy and I wouldn't expect a reaction from him like some of the ones you get on here sometimes. All very tiresome.
The fact is that certain company will always be present. No matter how many oppose those reactions.
I spent most of the second half just shouting encouragement to Sam, as everyone else around me in the East were slaughtering him everytime he lost the ball. I'd put him in your list of players that that kind of discouragement could hurt in the long run.
we were getting dominated by Keogh he was free to pick the ball from the air take a touch and lay it off, alternativly he could just win flick ons unchallenged all day,
Sam did what all game we needed more width and guile,
we needed A more attack minded centre forward Varney made one excellent run in the 2nd half from wide and tried to lay a difficult ball into the box that was just behind bouazza i think but he should have kept goin and get a shot off becasue they were shitting it,
the change was simple Sam for Dicko Varney out wide,
to deal with the attacking option from wolves youga off basey on allowing forts and hudson to concentrate on their own men and not how youga was doing and when he was going to be in the wrong position or just let the wide man through,
however 70 odd mins was too late that needed to be done just after the halftime restart ( youga would not have reappeared for me )
we was pish poor Wolves were not a far better team than us, they were made too look better due to our in abilty to make decent decisions when in possesion of the ball and our complete failure to pick up a man bossing the game
oh yeah and our managers in abilty and reluctunce to change something which is what imo he is paid for and should have done the buck stops with him on this one
that starting 11 was as good as wolves i didnt think gray did much upfront but he did allow us to hold the ball up and for some reason make their 2 centre backs have to earn any headers, wrong subs wrong time obviously wrong tactics or maybe just maybe we got the wrong big nose
Poeple who can never see any wrong no matter what the score is or how bad we play are just as bad as those who see no joy when we play well.
Pardew makes to many mistakes. Still feel he will leave mid november.
Better team, holding them until pen, bailey one man midfield and couldn't do on his own.
Needed the 2nd goal and it didn't come. Ref was dying to give the pen but can't blame the defeat on the officials.
Need someone alongside Bailey to help him out and to link with the forwards and need the FBs and wingers to work out how to play with each other.
For that reason wouldn't make wholesale changes but when ZZ is fit I hope he is playing instead of Holland. Matt is a great pro and prefect to bring some calm and experience with 10 mins to go but no longer 90 mins against the form side in the division.
And Rothko "still fighting the Battle of the Boyne" Classic mate, classic
I agree with most on here regarding the substitutions, I simply don't understand what Pardew is doing sometimes. Why switch everyone around when the simply option was to make a straight swap, Sam off, Ambrose on. As for the post above about Ambrose not giving as an attacking threat, what are you on? Look at how many goals he scores from midfield and how many assists he gets.
I agree with the post about Cranie. I accept that he needs time to settle but is he really any better than Semedo?
Surprised no-one else has mentioned it but what was Weaver doing for the 3rd goal?? Thought he was very hit and miss. Made one very good save but then twice made a save only to push the ball straight to a wolves player to score. Lino saved us the first time, second one wraped up the points.
For me, it's becoming plainly obvious that Varney isn't going to get the goals we need from him, although I still rate him as a player. Also Gray. Apart from penalties, am I right in saying they have one goal between them this season?
Would also add that, although I'm not Gray's biggest fan, I didn't understand the logic in replacing him with Dickson - Gray was winning some stuff in the air and gave a bit of shape to the attack, which we lost with him going off. Fair enough to bring Dicko and his fresh legs on, but would have taken Sam or Buzz off and pushed Varney wide.
Fair point the problem is a lot of it is wasted as too often Gray and Varney play too far apart. I think we will see the benifits of Gray when we have someone like Ambrose or ZZ making runs from the middle.