As someone undoubtedly of your generation, I also witnessed the decline of the club through the 60's & 70's and I echo what you say.
I've probably earned a reputation on this board as 'rose-tinted glasses' but the knocks & experiences of life let alone football have taught me that the negativity of carping criticsm easily turns into a downward spiral that feeds itself.
So if you think you're in a minority, I'll gladly show my colours alongside yours.
People, a hostile Valley where our own team are hating to play, does nobody any favours.
It doesn't help the team get results - and it makes for a lousy day out for us.
As Len says, let's go for the decent atmosphere, get right behind the players even if the performance is disappointing - and SUPPORT our own team.
Probably the best piece of Charlts editorial I have ever read. Supporting 'the boys' is very much an up and down affair, more down than up probably - but we must keep the faith. Watching for the first time this season versus Preston was appalling - their supporters outsang the North-end choir, you might have thought 'they' were the home side. We need to get behind the team for the full 90 minutes.
the thing that i find hard is that the board have backed pards more than any Charlton manager has b4 been backed in this league (we might even be up there as the top spenders in this league) and the return has been pitiful to say the least(so far!)
i didn't mind it when we were spending peanuts and getting nowhere that was the way it was but this club has grown so fast and i'm afraid that all the great work of the board and sir alan to get us to this high level could all go up in smoke if we don't make it back to the top flight very quickly
our support has never been great(volume wise or away numbers;-)) but how we go about changing that around is a tough ask cos unfortunately us weirdos on here are in the minority who do feel real PASSION for our club
[cite]Posted By: oohaahmortimer[/cite]the thing that i find hard is that the board have backed pards more than any Charlton manager has b4 been backed in this league (we might even be up there as the top spenders in this league) and the return has been pitiful to say the least(so far!)
Oohaah, I really struggle with your point of view. I mean that respectfully, because I don't actually think you're on a windup. I believe that you believe the stuff you post. I just don't understand it.
Having said that, do you think that the above is a cut and dry question. I mean, do you think that were one to put the figures in black and white (money spent by managers in the second tier), and Pard's spending is found to be more than any other, that he has somehow failed? Because I think the way you have framed the question makes it meaningless. It's not cut and dry, but relative. The club has never really been in the position it is in now. These are unique times in the history of football as business. Stakes are like they've never been before. Of course he has spent more at this level than any other manager previous. But that doesn't mean a whole lot unless you are prepared to do the very difficult work of working out how to quantify values and compare like with like. And, further, the bottom line is that money certainly doesn't equal results. Not in any straight forward way. Things take time.
Can somebody answer the question I and oohaah have put because as much as we keep going on about it nobody has come up with a solution.You have 100 posters on here who believe we should sing more.We are posted all around different parts of the ground amongst between 20k-25k others,who don't want to sing.There is the problem with the atmosphere. Answers on a post card please.I have tried this year to get behind and sing more at matches to see if it works as a lot of people on here tell me it has a more positive effect.The response to this is 1)Nobody joins in 2)The team haven't been playing that well at home 3)I get the feckin hump and do my nuts on Charlton Life.
God as much as I have enjoyed my away games this year,I haven't enjoyed the home games one little bit bar Palace..
I'm talking in Charlton terms Pardew has been backed more than any other previous manager at this level (and you can take into account inflation , relative money floating around the game etc)
I remember getting excited in 1982 when we spent £100k on Terry Bullivant and £100k on Carl Harris it was monster money for us at the time but not massive in general and in 1985 Lennies spending spree that brought in the likes of John Pender £35k, John Pearson£100k, George Shipley £15k and Steve Thompsom £25k these were big spends for us but very small compared to the bigger clubs of the time in our league .
At the time i didn't expect much because we weren't the big spenders we were a small club average crowds 4-5k (in the bottom third of average gates at the time in the league)
Now we are the big spenders in the league and we are a big club average crowds 22k (in the top third of average gates) .
We have progressed as a club and my expectations have risen with it.
If we had come down and spent nothing in the last 15 months since Pardew had arrived i would accept mediocrity but we have spent big and we'll never have a better chance of getting out of this league than now and it aint over till the fat lady sings , i'm beginning to clear my throat!
I'll support them no matter what and i'll never booooo em but i wont pretend that i haven't been really disappointed in the way the team have performed this season cos i'm pretty sure we have underperformed massively !!
So fingers crossed for a miracle return to form and promotion via the play offs cos next season it'll be a lot tougher to get out of this league IMO
[cite]Posted By: kimbo[/cite]Ps forgot to say! We had been going to the valley for about 3 years since I moved to london from newcastle. Realised I had changed allegiances from the toon to charlton last season when we played newcastle. If ever there is a club with high expectations it is newcastle but being part of the club means you support to the bitter end whatever the results are
Along with 99% of others I think Sco's post is brilliant but i also thought Kimbo's post was as well and it sums it up for me. It aint about oldies, newcomers, I've done this, I've done that its about Us. It’s what Charlton does to everyone somehow, it gets under the skin and to hear someone who has got bitten by the bug relatively quickly should make us all proud that we have something special here. I went to Burnley, Scunthorpe and Blackpool and along with hundreds of other times over the last 40 odd years questioned my sanity and wondered why but of course I'll wake up on Saturday full of hope, enthusiasm and excitement just as i did when i was a nipper and I will make my way to Ipswich thinking we will win. That’s Charlton for you.
[quote][cite]Posted By: northstandsteve[/cite]Can somebody answer the question I and oohaah have put because as much as we keep going on about it nobody has come up with a solution.You have 100 posters on here who believe we should sing more.We are posted all around different parts of the ground amongst between 20k-25k others,who don't want to sing.There is the problem with the atmosphere. Answers on a post card please.I have tried this year to get behind and sing more at matches to see if it works as a lot of people on here tell me it has a more positive effect.The response to this is 1)Nobody joins in 2)The team haven't been playing that well at home 3)I get the feckin hump and do my nuts on Charlton Life.
God as much as I have enjoyed my away games this year,I haven't enjoyed the home games one little bit bar Palace..[/quote]
I believe, Steve, that the only way you will create a better atmosphere at the Valley is to have a standing section. The obvious choice being the North Lower. It just dosen't feel right sitting and singing and in most parts of the ground if you do stand and sing your told "siddarn and shut up". Hardly condusive to creating a better atmosphere. I'm not saying that a standing section will answer all the questions but if you have enough like minded people who are able to get together in one group it can only improve things. It would almost be like being in the old Covered End.
[quote][cite]Posted By: ThreadKiller[/cite]the away fans don't have a problem making a lot of noise though.[/quote]
Because most away supporters stand throughout the game. I went to Shithurst and all were standing and I thought the atmosphere was great. At Coventry and Southampton most were seated and the atmosphere was nowhere near as good.
I'm sure that most on here who go home and away would say that when you are at the away games and everyone is standing the atmosphere is so much better.
but we have had great atmosphere's at the valley before and i don't mean 25 years ago when it was standing in the covered end.for the whole on the 90's it was rocking and it is only a recent thing that the atmosphere outside the jimmy seed has choked.
we shouldn't need gimmicks to get our away fans to decide to make some noise.like everyone else,it should be natural.
i just feel that we have lost our way quite a bit with the inflated expectation heaped onto the club,the previous 3 managers being the casulties.
Maybe what is needed is to feel at one with the team again.
we all felt close to the playoff winning team that 1st year in the prem.
Then when we went down you could see the hunger of them to get back in to the prem
for the 1st time in ages we have got players that dont know what the premier is like for the most of them anyway.
Maybe a bit of pain this year will steel them in their resolve for it not to happen again, Also there wont be many of them moving off if we dont go up so we could have a team together for 2years that will only aid the growth of us again
Best post i have read mate. One thing, how do we communicate this post to all our fans? On this forum there are maybe 40-50 users tops. Most fans dont go on forums. I know this has been blogged so that might help. How about printing this and handing it out at the games. Just a thought and thanks again for the post, great reading!!
[cite]Posted By: bibble[/cite]On this forum there are maybe 40-50 users tops.
You'd be suprised, the forum averages around 1,000 unique visitors a day, and that increases a fair bit if a blog article is well received and attracts a different audience.
There is no way to reach 20k other than on the tannoy or big screen, and neither would happen. The nearest would be via the programme, but how many of them are sold ? 4-5k ?
Great thought provoking post. Trying to get my head around the fans responsibility here. My impression is that we mostly only react to what the players are doing whereas at clubs with more passionate support the fans seem to understand the need to show unquestioning support for the CLUB regardless of what's happening on the field. Charlton don't have the traditions that fans of say Liverpool and Man City can show off about and perhaps the things that make Charlton a club to be proud of are never going to evoke showy expressions. I'm a typical old git supporter sitting in the West stand and don't sing for the same reason I guess I don't sing in Church unless the people round me are singing. I'm bursting to sing VFR but it would be like standing up for a solo performance in the Albert Hall just couldn't do it. Crazy I know but there is a distancing between the fans in the North stand and the rest of the ground so that it is almost only the North stand which is meant/allowed to sing. How do we become a single pack of supporters with the same desire to sing and shout for our club? I think the flag and banner things are great but my impression is that fewer of us wear colours and we don't wave scarves and colours like say Liverpool where they help create the whole atmosphere. I've seen posts on here I think where its been said not to be "normal" to be out and about in replica shirts, scarves or hats. My point is that I want us to feel we are one set of supporters who can sing any time we want and know we are singing for pride in the club regardless of the temporary happenings on the field. What can we do to make all parts of the ground feel they want to be part of a common display of pride and passion? It would drown out the minority of boo boys who I think have had a real negative effect of late. What can be done to encourage uninhibited shows of pride and passion for the club? - Big flags and banners are great but it isn't easy to involve the whole ground so why not encourage individual displays of colours. If our singing ultras in the North stand want to change things how about calling in at the club shop for flags, scarves, woolly hats, pyjamas, pillow cases and tea towels which they can wave every time VFR is sung. The rest of the ground is bound to join in - look at the FEEEEESH phenomena - I will wave my Charlton rug the rest might copy and the singing might just happen. Playing VFR over the tannoy might be a good idea just prior to kick off so no excuses for not singing and the ground is rocking as the game kicks off. Better than the sudden silence after that loud music. Well its an idea!!
Once you start down that slippery slope of criticising your own team its only going to mean one thing...a never ending circle of unhappy players lacking confidence and losing. And getting booed as a result. Repeat ad nauseum.
I agree that unless the atmosphere created by our fans improves, we will be at a severe disadvantage against other teams.
I would love the atmosphere to be better at the valley, but it will take a massive effort by the fans to change it. its easy to sing when we re playing well and scoring goals, but other teams fans sing throughout the game whether they re winning or losing. remember Norwich fans a few years back ?.they out sung us even when they were losing 4 0. Why is it that the atmosphere at the play off final was never re created.? Everyone was waving flags and scarves and banners. it was fantastic . that day we rivalled teams like liverpool for support. Come on, get the scarves and flags out again.starting this week at Ipswich,
You know, at some level, I have hope that this site will develop one day to be host to a kind of modern supporter's group, where we're in the position to organise and have an effect on the Valley atmosphere (banners, chants, etc) and our away support (organise Ketman coaches, trains, weekend trips etc.). I wish the site could one day be a place to facilitate the further growth of CAFC fan culture, building on our already rich traditions and having a real and positive effect on the Club and it's fans.
However, after the past couple of weeks, I realise the enormity of the challenge. We can't even seem to respect each other's opinions. We get our jollies from sniping and wind-ups. I see how big a task it really is.
It isn't easy m8,what i have discovered is no matter what our opinions are usually when we have a meet up with a pint in our hand we all agree that our love for the club is the same,and Charlton Athletic have got us by the short and curly's and we will never walk away.I think this Saturday's coach will be the start of many and hopefully we can get you on the next one. CHARLTON TILL WE DIE
I'm working on a post so great, so insightful, so epic, witty and humourous, it will never be bettered, not even with a million monkey's tapping away randomly on their keyboards.
Comments
As someone undoubtedly of your generation, I also witnessed the decline of the club through the 60's & 70's and I echo what you say.
I've probably earned a reputation on this board as 'rose-tinted glasses' but the knocks & experiences of life let alone football have taught me that the negativity of carping criticsm easily turns into a downward spiral that feeds itself.
So if you think you're in a minority, I'll gladly show my colours alongside yours.
People, a hostile Valley where our own team are hating to play, does nobody any favours.
It doesn't help the team get results - and it makes for a lousy day out for us.
As Len says, let's go for the decent atmosphere, get right behind the players even if the performance is disappointing - and SUPPORT our own team.
And enjoy ourselves. You know you want to.
Come on you Reds!
i didn't mind it when we were spending peanuts and getting nowhere that was the way it was but this club has grown so fast and i'm afraid that all the great work of the board and sir alan to get us to this high level could all go up in smoke if we don't make it back to the top flight very quickly
our support has never been great(volume wise or away numbers;-)) but how we go about changing that around is a tough ask cos unfortunately us weirdos on here are in the minority who do feel real PASSION for our club
Oohaah, I really struggle with your point of view. I mean that respectfully, because I don't actually think you're on a windup. I believe that you believe the stuff you post. I just don't understand it.
Having said that, do you think that the above is a cut and dry question. I mean, do you think that were one to put the figures in black and white (money spent by managers in the second tier), and Pard's spending is found to be more than any other, that he has somehow failed? Because I think the way you have framed the question makes it meaningless. It's not cut and dry, but relative. The club has never really been in the position it is in now. These are unique times in the history of football as business. Stakes are like they've never been before. Of course he has spent more at this level than any other manager previous. But that doesn't mean a whole lot unless you are prepared to do the very difficult work of working out how to quantify values and compare like with like. And, further, the bottom line is that money certainly doesn't equal results. Not in any straight forward way. Things take time.
God as much as I have enjoyed my away games this year,I haven't enjoyed the home games one little bit bar Palace..
I remember getting excited in 1982 when we spent £100k on Terry Bullivant and £100k on Carl Harris it was monster money for us at the time but not massive in general and in 1985 Lennies spending spree that brought in the likes of John Pender £35k, John Pearson£100k, George Shipley £15k and Steve Thompsom £25k these were big spends for us but very small compared to the bigger clubs of the time in our league .
At the time i didn't expect much because we weren't the big spenders we were a small club average crowds 4-5k (in the bottom third of average gates at the time in the league)
Now we are the big spenders in the league and we are a big club average crowds 22k (in the top third of average gates) .
We have progressed as a club and my expectations have risen with it.
If we had come down and spent nothing in the last 15 months since Pardew had arrived i would accept mediocrity but we have spent big and we'll never have a better chance of getting out of this league than now and it aint over till the fat lady sings , i'm beginning to clear my throat!
I'll support them no matter what and i'll never booooo em but i wont pretend that i haven't been really disappointed in the way the team have performed this season cos i'm pretty sure we have underperformed massively !!
So fingers crossed for a miracle return to form and promotion via the play offs cos next season it'll be a lot tougher to get out of this league IMO
Along with 99% of others I think Sco's post is brilliant but i also thought Kimbo's post was as well and it sums it up for me. It aint about oldies, newcomers, I've done this, I've done that its about Us. It’s what Charlton does to everyone somehow, it gets under the skin and to hear someone who has got bitten by the bug relatively quickly should make us all proud that we have something special here. I went to Burnley, Scunthorpe and Blackpool and along with hundreds of other times over the last 40 odd years questioned my sanity and wondered why but of course I'll wake up on Saturday full of hope, enthusiasm and excitement just as i did when i was a nipper and I will make my way to Ipswich thinking we will win. That’s Charlton for you.
God as much as I have enjoyed my away games this year,I haven't enjoyed the home games one little bit bar Palace..[/quote]
I believe, Steve, that the only way you will create a better atmosphere at the Valley is to have a standing section. The obvious choice being the North Lower. It just dosen't feel right sitting and singing and in most parts of the ground if you do stand and sing your told "siddarn and shut up". Hardly condusive to creating a better atmosphere. I'm not saying that a standing section will answer all the questions but if you have enough like minded people who are able to get together in one group it can only improve things. It would almost be like being in the old Covered End.
Almost.
Because most away supporters stand throughout the game. I went to Shithurst and all were standing and I thought the atmosphere was great. At Coventry and Southampton most were seated and the atmosphere was nowhere near as good.
I'm sure that most on here who go home and away would say that when you are at the away games and everyone is standing the atmosphere is so much better.
we shouldn't need gimmicks to get our away fans to decide to make some noise.like everyone else,it should be natural.
i just feel that we have lost our way quite a bit with the inflated expectation heaped onto the club,the previous 3 managers being the casulties.
we all felt close to the playoff winning team that 1st year in the prem.
Then when we went down you could see the hunger of them to get back in to the prem
for the 1st time in ages we have got players that dont know what the premier is like for the most of them anyway.
Maybe a bit of pain this year will steel them in their resolve for it not to happen again, Also there wont be many of them moving off if we dont go up so we could have a team together for 2years that will only aid the growth of us again
Just a thought and thanks again for the post, great reading!!
You'd be suprised, the forum averages around 1,000 unique visitors a day, and that increases a fair bit if a blog article is well received and attracts a different audience.
There is no way to reach 20k other than on the tannoy or big screen, and neither would happen. The nearest would be via the programme, but how many of them are sold ? 4-5k ?
My point is that I want us to feel we are one set of supporters who can sing any time we want and know we are singing for pride in the club regardless of the temporary happenings on the field. What can we do to make all parts of the ground feel they want to be part of a common display of pride and passion? It would drown out the minority of boo boys who I think have had a real negative effect of late. What can be done to encourage uninhibited shows of pride and passion for the club? - Big flags and banners are great but it isn't easy to involve the whole ground so why not encourage individual displays of colours. If our singing ultras in the North stand want to change things how about calling in at the club shop for flags, scarves, woolly hats, pyjamas, pillow cases and tea towels which they can wave every time VFR is sung. The rest of the ground is bound to join in - look at the FEEEEESH phenomena - I will wave my Charlton rug the rest might copy and the singing might just happen. Playing VFR over the tannoy might be a good idea just prior to kick off so no excuses for not singing and the ground is rocking as the game kicks off. Better than the sudden silence after that loud music. Well its an idea!!
Once you start down that slippery slope of criticising your own team its only going to mean one thing...a never ending circle of unhappy players lacking confidence and losing. And getting booed as a result. Repeat ad nauseum.
I agree that unless the atmosphere created by our fans improves, we will be at a severe disadvantage against other teams.
However, after the past couple of weeks, I realise the enormity of the challenge. We can't even seem to respect each other's opinions. We get our jollies from sniping and wind-ups. I see how big a task it really is.
Nice one Sco.. Again..
I'm working on a post so great, so insightful, so epic, witty and humourous, it will never be bettered, not even with a million monkey's tapping away randomly on their keyboards.
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