[cite]Posted By: AFKA Bartram[/cite]I know individual circumstances change when we get older, and the day you had then with your mates is very different to the day you get now. But the point i'm trying to get accross, getting turned over at home by the likes of Burnley etc is nothing new to most of us.
Yet why are we so volatile in our reaction to it now ?
Saturday I am celebrating my birthday and I look forward to seeing my team play and having a few (ahem) beers with my mates afterwards. Up the Addicks!
I am also looking forward to it mate! Although more your birthday than the actual game to be honest.
[cite]Posted By: AFKA Bartram[/cite]on paper and wage bill, we are too good for this division though IMO.
And more so Sheffield United you would say?
The players seem to be getting on with the reality of the situation, while the fans are too busy thinking we should be walking away with a tough league
we have demonstrated we are a front runner in this division, perhaps overperforming and therefore meeting the expectations of a lot despite a decimated squad - in terms of what we had last year. It is therefore disappointing rightly or wrongly, to go on this losing streak.
This is a tough league but I don't think we would or should be happy with 1 win and 4 defeats from the last five home games. I don't think we would have been even if we were still in the Prem.
There is something going on. Look back to last Thursday and other than the score predictions thread how many posts were there about Burnley? None. No "10 things you never knew", no "do you remember when...", no analysis of "are they any good?", no "should we change the team around" etc, etc It was like an international week.
Sorry to bore you all with my work bollox but in change management you go through 3 stages Ending, Mourning and Beginning. I think were are still in mourning for the Prem and Curbs (what he represented an established prem club not the man himself) and we as a whole just haven't accepted that this is what we are now as a club and a team.
It's a bit like when you move house. You go to a better house but you miss the old garden, the neighbours and the local pub/shops. You can't find the bottle opener and the doors open the wrong way. You start to wish you'd stayed put and find fault with everything that doesn't work.
OK, we didn't want to move house/get relegated but we did. As the Inspector says the reality of that is that you get done by Burnley at home sometimes
How do you move on? You focus on the good things about the new house and remind your self of why you wanted to move in the first place.
[cite]Posted By: AFKA Bartram[/cite]On paper i would say we have more than Sheff U, yes. Though the extent they are paying Beattie would send their waghe bill through ours.
Don't really want to be argumentative, but intrigued. What do you base 'the players seem to be getting on with the reality of the situation' on ?
Being forth in the league, performing pretty well with a new side, and getting some decent results on the road.
The issue is the home form, and the way they approach games at the Valley, but I'm starting to think it's a fear of playing there at the moment, in a ridculously horrible atmosphere
the financial incentive to go straight up is gonna make people a bit uppity and have high requirement if not expectations though, as someone alluded to earlier.
[cite]Posted By: WSS[/cite]we didnt want to move in the first palce Henry...
Not technically true. I did, but i think i'm an outliner.
Personally i'm sick of virtually every aspect of the Premier League and all it stands for, and could quite happily see Charlton for the rest of my days in the lower divisions bouncing up and down. But for that to be enjoyable, there would need to be a lot of people with a similar viewpoint to me, and that's clearly never going to be the case !
[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]This is a tough league but I don't think we would or should be happy with 1 win and 4 defeats from the last five home games. I don't think we would have been even if we were still in the Prem.
There is something going on. Look back to last Thursday and other than the score predictions thread how many posts were there about Burnley? None. No "10 things you never knew", no "do you remember when...", no analysis of "are they any good?", no "should we change the team around" etc, etc It was like an international week.
Sorry to bore you all with my work bollox but in change management you go through 3 stages Ending, Mourning and Beginning. I think were are still in mourning for the Prem and Curbs (what he represented an established prem club not the man himself) and we as a whole just haven't accepted that this is what we are now as a club and a team.
It's a bit like when you move house. You go to a better house but you miss the old garden, the neighbours and the local pub/shops. You can't find the bottle opener and the doors open the wrong way. You start to wish you'd stayed put and find fault with everything that doesn't work.
OK, we didn't want to move house/get relegated but we did. As the Inspector says the reality of that is that you get done by Burnley at home sometimes
How do you move on? You focus on the good things about the new house and remind your self of why you wanted to move in the first place.
I'm afraid I have no idea what your talking about but I'm certainly not mourning either Curbishley or the premiership.
I'm just pissed off that a talented group of players haven't performed for the last 2 games!!
I agree with the above smudge and I think you are correct in that being a bit of a yo yo side would be more exciting but we most definitley do not have the fans with anything like the patience for that!
I think I just want my old Charlton back now..... From where the last ascent began.... About ten years or so ago....
I think 'ridiculously horrible atmosphere' is a bit OTT
Any supposed top 2 side that goes 2-0 down at home to a lower league side, after getting spanked 3-0 4 days earlier at home should expect a bit of a fans backlash.
Compare us to Newcastle, Spurs etc and we dont do too badly.
I also seem to remember you talking about 'a lot of rubbish in this league' when we did the pre season prediction.
are things any different from years gone by,moaning I mean or is it that because of forums like these everybody gets to know what everyone else is feelin 20 years ago,we didn't even have the internet,so I don't think all of a sudden we are negative moaners just we have a platform to do it on.
There is rubbish in this league (if I said that, always happy to be shown the idoit), no doubt about it, the two who we were turned over by this week, I wouldn't consider to be in the detritus of the divison.
But there are a lot of people at the Valley who are extermely willing to jump on the teams back at the first opportunity, and that's not even questionable, and it stupid and counter productive.
I agree i don't think the atmosphere is helping, but absolutely no way is it the reason for the current poor home form, and it would be a cheap shot by management and players if it was offered up as an excuse (and to their credit, they haven't).
I don't mind defeats, and I think realistically no-one does - after all we aren't Liverpool/Man U/Arsenal etc fans who expect to get something out of every match, however in this division there is no team we should fear footballing wise. Perhaps the reaction is partly because we lost, but more because we lost after giving the opposition three gilt edged chances and making it look as though we were mugged by an organised team exhibiting a bit of footballing savvy rather than one that won by out-playing us. When you conceed soft goals it should be no wonder that you'll lose.
We have to turn the Valley into a fortress, where teams know they are going to get a hard game. That is partly down to the fans, but more down to the tactics and personnel, pass the ball around, play to our strengths and attack and defend as a unit. Some here complain that the attacking strategy is to lump the ball to Iwelumo, if it is, then it isn't working. Occasionally the patient build up is more impotant as well as playing the ball into the channels and making defenders turn. With Sam, Thomas, Varney, McLeod we have players with speed of foot to make defenders make mistakes. Be a little harder and domineering and tactical, and play to our strengths and we'd win a lot more at home.
I think most fans are preapred to give the team some encourement and willing to wait to see what transpires during a game, but Saturday was a joke. Barely 5 mins had elepsed when their frst meaningful attack lead to a goal, but not just that, but 5 mins later the EXACT thing happened. We could all see it. I sit in the East and everyone around me were screaming "mark the runner, mark the runner" and we didn't and they scored.
Now, I think most home fans would be a tad annoyed if after 10 mins they were 2-0 down to a basic middle of the road team (no offence to Burney) - especially as both were soft goals. I can take being beaten by a better team or by a wonder 30 yard screamer (Spurs yesterday)......but 6 goals conceeded in the last 2 home games is a bit much.
Living up here I don't see that many games but from what I have seen live & on Sky I want a team that scores goals, I'd rather we lost 3-2 than 1-0 and yes we will loose games but lets play entertaining football, use the wingers and don't just lump the ball up to big Chris. We have a midfield that can pass the ball so how about some passes through the opposing defence as well as crosses in from the wings.
[cite]Posted By: lancashire lad[/cite]Living up here I don't see that many games but from what I have seen live & on Sky I want a team that scores goals, I'd rather we lost 3-2 than 1-0 and yes we will loose games but lets play entertaining football, use the wingers and don't just lump the ball up to big Chris. We have a midfield that can pass the ball so how about some passes through the opposing defence as well as crosses in from the wings.
To be honest, I want us to win and I would be quite happy for us to play long ball as a means to an end. Sod the entertaining football, if lumping it forward to Big Chris won us games and got us back in the premiership then that is good enough for me.
However the fact is it doesn't work. I can only think of one occassion where the long punt from the back has got us a goal and that was away to palace.
Pards said at the start of the reason that he wanted to get out of this division playing football. He has brought together a side that he believes is capable of doing that yet we have seen precious little evidence of it in the last 2 homes games.
I believe we have technicly better players than most teams in this division, that is our strength and it is really frustrating that we are not playing to those strengths. When it continues to happen and we are getting beat as well, is it any wonder that the fans get the hump?
its as simple as this: People/Fans think we have a divine right of being in the prem, well we aint!! People/fans think we have the divine right to win every week, well we dont!! Now i could go on for ages with this, but i will spare you all.
What i will say is, we are charlton, not man yoo, or liverpool who's fans expect there team to win week in week out, and when they dont they quite rightly get booed! These players are on so much money it stinks, so the fans will boo cos they are on shit loads! WHy are charlton fans so quick to boo??? I just dont get it, its not gonna help anything! And losing at home to burnley is gonna happen in this league, teams will come, beat us up, take there chances and we will be on our players backs before you say jiminy cricket, this wont help! Get behind the team, like i do, practically on my own at some times aswell!
So so negative, we aint a big club after all, and back to back defeats shouldnt warrent what sort of booo they got after the burnley game, it was a big booo! look at the run we went on before the 2 home games, see how quickly it can turned round in this league, have faith, have hope, dont boo so easily!
Comments
I am also looking forward to it mate! Although more your birthday than the actual game to be honest.
And more so Sheffield United you would say?
The players seem to be getting on with the reality of the situation, while the fans are too busy thinking we should be walking away with a tough league
Don't really want to be argumentative, but intrigued. What do you base 'the players seem to be getting on with the reality of the situation' on ?
;-)
There is something going on. Look back to last Thursday and other than the score predictions thread how many posts were there about Burnley? None. No "10 things you never knew", no "do you remember when...", no analysis of "are they any good?", no "should we change the team around" etc, etc It was like an international week.
Sorry to bore you all with my work bollox but in change management you go through 3 stages Ending, Mourning and Beginning. I think were are still in mourning for the Prem and Curbs (what he represented an established prem club not the man himself) and we as a whole just haven't accepted that this is what we are now as a club and a team.
It's a bit like when you move house. You go to a better house but you miss the old garden, the neighbours and the local pub/shops. You can't find the bottle opener and the doors open the wrong way. You start to wish you'd stayed put and find fault with everything that doesn't work.
OK, we didn't want to move house/get relegated but we did. As the Inspector says the reality of that is that you get done by Burnley at home sometimes
How do you move on? You focus on the good things about the new house and remind your self of why you wanted to move in the first place.
Being forth in the league, performing pretty well with a new side, and getting some decent results on the road.
The issue is the home form, and the way they approach games at the Valley, but I'm starting to think it's a fear of playing there at the moment, in a ridculously horrible atmosphere
Not technically true. I did, but i think i'm an outliner.
Personally i'm sick of virtually every aspect of the Premier League and all it stands for, and could quite happily see Charlton for the rest of my days in the lower divisions bouncing up and down. But for that to be enjoyable, there would need to be a lot of people with a similar viewpoint to me, and that's clearly never going to be the case !
I did say that but we still had to move.
I'm afraid I have no idea what your talking about but I'm certainly not mourning either Curbishley or the premiership.
I'm just pissed off that a talented group of players haven't performed for the last 2 games!!
I agree with the above smudge and I think you are correct in that being a bit of a yo yo side would be more exciting but we most definitley do not have the fans with anything like the patience for that!
I think I just want my old Charlton back now..... From where the last ascent began.... About ten years or so ago....
Remember them optimistic days guys eh??
See, still in the mourning stage. : -)
I think 'ridiculously horrible atmosphere' is a bit OTT
Any supposed top 2 side that goes 2-0 down at home to a lower league side, after getting spanked 3-0 4 days earlier at home should expect a bit of a fans backlash.
Compare us to Newcastle, Spurs etc and we dont do too badly.
I also seem to remember you talking about 'a lot of rubbish in this league' when we did the pre season prediction.
Cant have your argument both ways fella.
But there are a lot of people at the Valley who are extermely willing to jump on the teams back at the first opportunity, and that's not even questionable, and it stupid and counter productive.
I agree i don't think the atmosphere is helping, but absolutely no way is it the reason for the current poor home form, and it would be a cheap shot by management and players if it was offered up as an excuse (and to their credit, they haven't).
We have to turn the Valley into a fortress, where teams know they are going to get a hard game. That is partly down to the fans, but more down to the tactics and personnel, pass the ball around, play to our strengths and attack and defend as a unit. Some here complain that the attacking strategy is to lump the ball to Iwelumo, if it is, then it isn't working. Occasionally the patient build up is more impotant as well as playing the ball into the channels and making defenders turn. With Sam, Thomas, Varney, McLeod we have players with speed of foot to make defenders make mistakes. Be a little harder and domineering and tactical, and play to our strengths and we'd win a lot more at home.
I think most fans are preapred to give the team some encourement and willing to wait to see what transpires during a game, but Saturday was a joke. Barely 5 mins had elepsed when their frst meaningful attack lead to a goal, but not just that, but 5 mins later the EXACT thing happened. We could all see it. I sit in the East and everyone around me were screaming "mark the runner, mark the runner" and we didn't and they scored.
Now, I think most home fans would be a tad annoyed if after 10 mins they were 2-0 down to a basic middle of the road team (no offence to Burney) - especially as both were soft goals. I can take being beaten by a better team or by a wonder 30 yard screamer (Spurs yesterday)......but 6 goals conceeded in the last 2 home games is a bit much.
Anyway.......still going to cardiff tomorrow.
Good on ya golfie !
To be honest, I want us to win and I would be quite happy for us to play long ball as a means to an end. Sod the entertaining football, if lumping it forward to Big Chris won us games and got us back in the premiership then that is good enough for me.
However the fact is it doesn't work. I can only think of one occassion where the long punt from the back has got us a goal and that was away to palace.
Pards said at the start of the reason that he wanted to get out of this division playing football. He has brought together a side that he believes is capable of doing that yet we have seen precious little evidence of it in the last 2 homes games.
I believe we have technicly better players than most teams in this division, that is our strength and it is really frustrating that we are not playing to those strengths. When it continues to happen and we are getting beat as well, is it any wonder that the fans get the hump?
What i will say is, we are charlton, not man yoo, or liverpool who's fans expect there team to win week in week out, and when they dont they quite rightly get booed! These players are on so much money it stinks, so the fans will boo cos they are on shit loads! WHy are charlton fans so quick to boo??? I just dont get it, its not gonna help anything! And losing at home to burnley is gonna happen in this league, teams will come, beat us up, take there chances and we will be on our players backs before you say jiminy cricket, this wont help! Get behind the team, like i do, practically on my own at some times aswell!
So so negative, we aint a big club after all, and back to back defeats shouldnt warrent what sort of booo they got after the burnley game, it was a big booo! look at the run we went on before the 2 home games, see how quickly it can turned round in this league, have faith, have hope, dont boo so easily!
Rant over!